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Handhelds Hardware

More details on the Visor/Handspring (Update) 164

Posted by Hemos from the from-the-inventors-of-the-palm-pilot dept.
Thanks to Ian Hopper> for the current story on CNN about the Visor. Pictures-and in a very cool turn of events-two very cool peripheral ports in the back of the machine. It runs about 20% faster then the Palm III or V, 8 MB of RAM in the high-end version of the machine. Oh-and about 2/3 the cost of a Palm V. Check out the Palminfocenter for more details, as well.Update: 09/14 03:33 by H :The corp. website appears to be up and running as well.
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More details on the Visor/Handspring (Update) More

More details on the Visor/Handspring (Update)

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  • I think you've hit the nail on the head - you can't carry a Newton in your back or shirt pocket. Sure, the PalmOS devices are less feature-complete, but they are cheaper and a lot more portable. I'm not sure what the battery life on the Newton was like, but it probably wasn't as good as the Palm's. I've had my palm for nearly 18 months , and I'm only on my fourth or fifth set of AAA's...

  • If you look carefully at the photo on the CNN article, something looking like a USB cable stick out of the cradle.

    *IF* the cradle is USB-based, this is good news for you Mac users (if you are using a recent machine). However, considering the shaky support for USB in Linux, that's bad news for the rest of us.

  • Dude, before the Visor, I would never even consider buying any Palm except for the IIIx...I _need_ the RAM, baby! I've seen sites online that you can buy Palm IIIx's upgraded with 16MB of RAM! Screw those Palm V's with 2MB...and the VII's too...I think they also only have 2MB. Maybe 4, but it's not upgradeable.

    But if the Visor is upgradable, that's acceptable. And then again, even if it isn't the deluxe model has 8MB. I _guess_ that's good enough for me.

  • Apparently some people here have actually used these, as there are comments on the quickness of screen redraw, etc. Could anyone comment on the case rigidity? I have a Palm Pro with a flaky screen that I need to have looked at, but the amount of give in its design has always troubled me. I love the feel of the Palm V, but these Handspring units are a better value, but I am worried that they too may suffer from the loose feel of Palm Pro era devices.

    matt
  • For the third time in the last 4 years, I find myself without my PDA (a Sharp Zaurus). I've had Sharp PDAs for the last 8 years or so, starting with a ZQ6300M. Back then, I lived in Canada, and the two or three times the ZQ failed, Sharp fixed it quickly, once getting it back to me 4 days after I'd shipped it to them FedEx! But since I've moved to the US, the service has been TERRIBLE. They don't do the service themselves, they use designated service centres, and these service centers don't seem to realize that some of us run out business lives on these things. The last three times something has gone wrong, I've had to wait over a month for the repair. And it's cost over $150 each time.

    The promise of a cheap but powerful PDA like these means that instead of paying $150 each time for repairs, I can just buy a new one! And because it has hot sync, I probably won't lose as much information as I do with the Zaurus because I only back it up once or twice a month.
  • They've actualy renamed "Ctrl" to "Command". So it's still there, sorta.
  • My PalmIII has a warning on the battery back warning me that it could lose memory if bateries are removed for more then 2min.

    Through a little experimentation I've discovered the real threshold seems to be about 5min.
  • I liked the Visor so much, I already put in an order for the deluxe model... but what if I want to recieve pages AND listen to MP3's? I don't think that'll be a possibility, sadly.
  • When I write equations, I usually do so in text; I have my own format for doing so, which Works For Me. If I needed to, I'd decide on some other format, but I don't.

    As for my notes, I almost never transcribe the prof's words... rather, the transparencies (which often we have to buy in an expensive but almost-worthless packet).

    Before my software loads up? I use a Pilot. I do my diagrams with the pen. (Thought I said that already).
  • I could hook it up to my PCS CellPhone for wireless internet. Untill then, i'll be a psion guy!
  • Although you'll really need the 8MB to do anything useful I guess. Unless they have done something really strange it uses the 68EZ328 dragonball processor and thus will run uC/Linux without too much effort.

    See http://www.uclinux.org for details.
  • I beleive that a little competition between the Palm Pilot and Visor is a good thing for the Palm OS customer base. Competition however friendly leads to new inovations in the attempts win over customers and market share. This continueing we may see a very strong Palm OS having a chance to someday in the near future topple Microsoft out of this market.

    $nyper
  • It is unlikely you would need anything other than some software. Things like the Ti-89 I know for certain use the 68EC000 which is the core that is used in the Palm Pilot. There may be one out there already....
  • Palm need to get out of the hardware business. The real money is to be made by licensing the OS and letting lots of independent hardware vendors compete to see who can shave a bit more off their margins. This is what made Microsoft what it is today, and also what gave us the $500 PC.

    Paul.

  • As a Palm programmer, it's a little annoying that Handspring has not given out any details of the device out to programmers yet. Yes it will run Palm OS v3.1, but a problem that instantly jumps to mind is screen resolution details. Palm OS in theory supports devices with greater than 160x160 displays. No details have been released about the Handspring models and their capabilities...

  • I'd like to know too. I slayed my Palm Pro after a couple of year of nonstop use. I've already ordered a Visor Deluxe to replace it, but it's been a sad couple of months without my little computer. :-(
  • It also comes in "graphite", which is the color of the new G4 machines. And on the main of the page company's site it says "Say hello to Visor". "Say hello to iMac" was a popular phrase with Apple when the iMac was introduced, and is a reference to "Say hello to Macintosh" when the first Mac was introduced.

    OK, so they're not so original. But that's fine with me; it means I can get one that'll match my G3 :-)

    --
  • "The modules instantaneously install their own software."


    It's nice to see widespread use an idea that's been around since the apple II.


    Seriously, though, this ought to be convenient.

    -Chris
  • Sparse info? Just call them up and ask. Geez. They answered my questions without any trouble at all. I didn't have as many as most people I see posting here because I'm a longtime Palm user, but I wanted to know about cradle compatibility.

    Visors aren't compatible with any existing Palm cradles, BTW.
  • And though it may not matter to many of you. Apparently, Visor will be very Mac compatable right out of the box. No need to buy an axtra "Mac Pac". I don't know what this means towards Linux compatability.

    Now if it only came in rainbow colors...

    :-) (Just kidding :-)
  • I can think of many pros to buying one of these:

    -Price
    -Compatability
    -Feature Set

    What are some cons? Anybody?
    --
  • you mean http://www.handspring.com [handspring.com] not mindspring.com, that's the isp.
  • So far its just $150.00 for an address book. Until they get the web integration right and cellular air time comes down, I think I will just stick to pen and paper The truth is but a poor excuse for lack of imagination
  • Nope, MIT's wearables group has been kicking that idea around for years. http://rhodes.www.media.mit.edu/people/rhodes/ is one of the people involved. Interesting stuff.
  • Most likely none. Whatsoever. These are old fashioned guys. They do not see linux as a consumer OS, hence they don't see any need to develop any software for it.

    Considering that they have not announced it (and this is with all the RHAT hype) they are not doing one.

  • The biggest complaint I had with my old PalmPilot Pro, and the Palm IIIs are the plastic cases which pop and shift at the seams when you grip the device.

    The case on my Palm III has -never- shifted or popped. I've had it since February, and for most of that time, I've been holding it (way too tightly usually) in my bad hand due to an auto accident in march. Have you dropped it? Check the case screws, or call 3Com. Sounds like a horked case, which they might repair (I had my first Palm III replaced by the vendor for free because it had a faulty ram chip. I thought it was strange that a Palm III only had 1MB ram...)


    --jd
  • I was thinking about buying a Palm IIIx, but now, I know I want a Visor. Just wondering when the thing will ship to Europe. Soon, I hope!

  • Less wait states to memory.
  • Sorry, there is only sparse info available:

    Visor Solo $149 - no craddle, no syncing

    Visor $179 - 2MB, craddle, etc.

    Visor Deluxe $249 - 8 MB, craddle, etc.

    All use AAA alkaline cells (maybe accumulators?) - standard battery use is a Good Thing (tm). They are designed for easy use of plug-on modules (cell modem, GPS receiver, MP3 player, etc.)

    The interesting questions are: will it be compatible to the 3Com - so the 3Com applications can run? Will there be support for programmers (like with the 3Com)? Support for Linux? As for the websites cited:

  • Geez.. you could fit hours of conference and discussion onto a microdrive at 24Khz.. etc.

    I think that there would be great use in a microdrive.


    You could cary around a pocket encyclopedia w/one of those things.



    I was hoping to see this kind of technology available with the new Psion (Even as big as they are.... ) Oh well..



    Maybe a laptop is not that bad.
  • oops - it is http://www.handspring.com/ [handspring.com]
  • It seem like the features in the new date book are the same as in DatebookIII. Have they licenced DateBookIII or just reimplemented the features?
  • Apparently, it's using the PalmOS. So, yes, the applications *should* run.

    But please, someone correct me if i am wrong.
    --
  • All the specs for the Visor and Visor Deluxe (VD?) are available at http://216.35.16.11/visor_info.html [216.35.16.11]

    The Deluxe model comes in 5 colors and has a leather case.

    Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity

  • Check out the visor delux in ICE color. It looks like one of those funky see through imacs! Really neat. I want one! One bad point is that the non-delux just comes in graphite (dark bluish).
    --
  • >It's nice to see widespread use an idea that's
    >been around since the apple II.

    Now wait a minute, that's overstating it a bit.

    Each slot in the apple II had a 256 byte region reserved for ROM, with a decoded enable so the card didn't need to know which slot it it occupied. There was also a 2k area it could bank-switch, shared with other cards.

    But to launch these drivers, you had to type

    PR#6

    for example, telling it to send output to card 6. This launched the driver. In the case of card 6, this usually booted dos, then returned output to 0, the screen (even though there was a card 0, which was sort of special). There was also a corresponding IN# command.

    Later, with the II+, the autostart ROM's would automatically try slot 6 (or was it all slots???)

    The overall design was amazing, and easy to homebrew hardware to fit. I have three waiting for me (IIe's, unfortanately; I'd rather original II's): one to run a railroad, one for the kids, and one for spare parts.

    hawk, who misses the 8 bit machines
    • The Database files are compatible
    • The IR seems to be compatible
    • They claim you can "seemlessly interchange data with Palms
    • The cradle is USB instead of serial -- bad for Linux?
    • The cradles probably are not compatible? I have a Palm III and want to buy the wife a Visor.
    • Some of the standard apps are "enhanced", but allegedly compatible.
    • Handspring claims complete compatibility with the "hundreds of Palm applications" available.

    Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity


  • There's nothing extraordinary about the Vizor besides the price, which is something 3Com should have fiddled around with a long time ago. I would've been more excited if they had released some good development software for the Palm, ever try to program the damn thing! I don't know, but I've lost faith in the Palm Platform, nothing has been done to keep it relevant, interesting, or innovative.
  • I'm kind of disappointed with this. I was hoping the creators of the Palm would have come up with something better than an extended rehash. Don't get me wrong, hardware extensability at a cheaper price is great but it still doesn't address the things that I (and probably others) want. I want:
    1. The screen rotated and the silkscreen and grafitti put in a windowshading area accessible via software.
    2. A high res (640x480) high-contrast led with a 5 or 6 bit greyscale capability. (I think the Palm 3's have 4 bit greyscale)
    3. Move the buttons to the side of the unit and use that space for screen real-estate.

    If someone did these things, we could have a machine you could actually browse on and not just have to deal with "clippings" Not to mention making it nicer to work on.

    Skippy

  • The datebook, which is the only "enhanced" app with a database to worry about, _is_ compatible, 'cause I've been using it!

    how, do you ask? Simple, I say - it's a specially prepared and liscensed version of Pimlico Software's Datebk3 (check them out at http://www.gorilla-haven.org/pimlico [gorilla-haven.org]). I recognized the feature list, emailed CESD (the guy who coded it) and got this:


    HandSpring's "advanced" datebook application is a special version of
    DateBk3 that I prepared and licensed to them for use in their handheld
    organizers. It includes almost all of the functionality of DateBk3
    omitting only some of the "fancier" features such as icons, categories,
    timezones and appts spanning midnight. It does feature a somewhat cleaner
    user interface and may also include some other things that I am not aware
    of -- i.e. they have their own development staff and may also have done
    some additional work on it themselves - I'm waiting to pick up my unit
    too...


    (I feel proud - between when I emailed him and when I got a response, he put a note to this effect on the Pimlico page. I contributed to something totally ineffectual but slightly interesting to me! Go me :) )

    The only thing I'm curious about is if Handspring modified the Palm Desktop app as well to match up with the new features. If so, I grab _instantly_. :)


    "I don't believe that there is one, single, perfect spiritual way and, in realizing that, obviously you become a lot more open."
  • IIRC, the Palm III and below have 4 levels, the Palm IIIx and up have 16.


    "I don't believe that there is one, single, perfect spiritual way and, in realizing that, obviously you become a lot more open."
  • Those of us with DSL, anything involving proxy severs, T1s (especially in colleges), et cetera, really DO want one, because then you can get connected without gettng a dialup account, or paying the really high expense that wireless is.



    "I don't believe that there is one, single, perfect spiritual way and, in realizing that, obviously you become a lot more open."
  • I prefer the KISS philosophy of "looking cheap, not being cheap, and costing as much" to the Apple philosophy of "looking pretty but costing a hell of a lot more"

    If you want to use a work of art, write your notes on the back of the Mona Lisa for all I care. I'll be happily using a "cheap-looking" Visor Deluxe.


    "I don't believe that there is one, single, perfect spiritual way and, in realizing that, obviously you become a lot more open."
  • I hereby refer you to my earlier post [slashdot.org] on that particular issue :)



    "I don't believe that there is one, single, perfect spiritual way and, in realizing that, obviously you become a lot more open."
  • Anybody remember that Handspring was formed because 3Com wouldn't spin Palm Computing back off? Now, after Handspring develops a Palm-killer (with the OS licensed from 3Com no less), 3Com decides that they should spin Palm Computing off.

    At least 3Com figured out the PDA industry is outside their competence before it was too late to salvage any value for their stockholders.
  • A GPS-based reminder system? Tim, your a genius!

  • I happen to know QueenFrag in real life (what's
    that?!), and i just want to help put his
    comment in perspective.

    *QueenFrag is a HotJava user.*

    He's one of those guys who purposely spells his name wrong.

    ¦ just busting on you Jo.

  • I suspect color would be difficult to pull off for Handspring, since they are just a liscensee of the Palm OS. I'm not sure if they have the source code (or the permission) to do the hacking that color support would require.

    Also, would a dragonball processor be able to handle a color screen? I was under the impression that LCD control is tightly coupled to the dragonball.

    I agree that good wireless would be a killer feature. And an improved screen (better resolution) would also help. I'll probably stick with my good old Palm 1000 (which has undergone three upgrades) for some time. Good to know, though, that there is a cheap alternative if my Pilot meets an untimely demise.
  • I would've been more excited if they had released some good development software for the Palm, ever try to program the damn thing!

    One of the reasons that Palm has soooo much third-party software is because the development tools are easy to use and plentiful. Are you sure that you weren't confusing the Palm with the Rex?
  • Im an idiot and lost my palm 3.
    im quite lost without it but cant really afford a new one.

    i am wondering if it would be possible to modify my palm III cradle to work with the el-cheapo visor?

    wishful thinking
  • Great idea, you should send it to handspring!

    Another neat thing on the hardware side would be to integrate a GPS module with a cell phone (or two way pager) module.

    There should be two slot for module on this thing!
  • Now what is 3Com's thinking in spinning off Palm Computing to a separate company? It was a cash cow, now what is the future?

    3Com wasn't able to market and develop the Palm concept very well. They suffer from MS-Word Syndrome where 'average Joe' personal technology is concerned. They're great with networking and MODEMS - things you install and forget. Hands-on, in-your-face-every-day devices are alien to them.

    I mean, the Palm VII, Palm III, Palm IIIx?? Whom are they kidding? Their marketting people were beginning to have useless and 'buzz' features put in, in an apparent attempt to establish a variety of 'trim' levels. Much like being able to select the color of the underlines beneath your misspellings in Word. They were selling them in college bookstores - in a variety of 'fashion' colors for chrissakes!

    Just like the Nokia cell phones... All we need now is clip on transluscent flip-up screen covers and interchangable, color case covers... Feh! The Pilot was beginning to suffer from a lack of competition. After all, the only alternative in the same class of device is WinCE.

    Spinning off Palm into a separate company is the best thing that could happen to the Pilot. This way, a product specific marketting department can work closely with the product specific engineering staff, without too many suits munging up the process.

    Hopefully they'll come back to the exceptional fundamentals that made the Pilot a great tool. A little of it shines still in the Palm V, and hopefully the compatition (despite what they claim, it'll be there) from handspring will force some innovation and usefull feature development in both camps.

  • The biggest complaint I had with my old PalmPilot Pro, and the Palm IIIs are the plastic cases which pop and shift at the seams when you grip the device. The Palm V has a sweet case, not just slim, but one that feels like the entire unit is stamped from a single piece of metal.

    The Visor appears to have shucked the low-contrast displays in early palms, and I don't mind the fact that it only displays four greys (saves memory and power), but the designers appear to have regressed with this cheap-looking black plastic case. Hopefully I'm wrong and this thing is stronger than it looks.

    Also, quick question: the base model doesn't come with a cradle, but I assume it still has a port that a hotsync cable can be plugged into?
  • Palm needs to get out of the hardware business. The real money is to be made by licensing the OS

    We see this ill-informed opinion pop up in platform licensing discussions. The success of the Palm is not due to the hardware or the software, but rather the combination of the two. When hardware is a commodity (as it is with PCs) and the operating system is at or near the monopoly level (as it is with MS Windows) then it is better to be in the software licensing business. But that is not the case with Palm computing today, and it will not be the case for a long time to come.

    Let's say Palm took your advice and phased out of the hardware business. Companies with competing designs would try to differentiate themselves with hardware. Palm would be faced with either stifling innovation by not supporting new ideas with the appropriate hardware, or they would be forced to support anything the hardware manufacturers produced.

    [sarcasm]Look at how well Windows works with hardware. Plug and Play works seamlessly, and new configurations are a joy.[/sarcasm]

    There is a lot to be said for making the whole machine. Palm is on the only course that can be successful.
  • A serial cradle will also be available. Given that these are "100% PalmOS compatible" devices, won't it be possible to use the Linux stuff currently available for Palms?
  • While there is definately geek appeal, I'm not sure how truely useful a Palm is to a college student. I don't remember every having such a busy schedule in college that I couldn't remember stuff. Things usually fell into a pattern--homework for class A was due Tuesday, homework for clas B was due Thursday, etc. The pattern made it easy to remember. For midterms and finals, I was WELL aware of when those were--not seomthing I would just forget. And, of course, I'd never "forget" to go out for beer on the weekends. I can see that a PDA might be useful for graduating seniors (you have to keep track of all those interviews).

    It would be nice if there were a server-type product available that allowed a college student with a PDA but no computer of their own to use the University computers for syncing. The Palm Pilots have the LAN syncing capability. You'd just need a piee of software on a server somewhere that the Palm would sync to. The PC interface would be web-based (so you could look up addresses even if you forgot your Palm).
  • Check out the developer's section [216.35.16.11] at Handspring.

    Their home page [handspring.com] is up now, too.

  • *accolades*

    You should write this when the hardware's available!

    Zipwow
  • But does ucLinux have a GUI? I can't imagine trying to use a command line with a pen!

    Something like compressed X protocol over a wireless link to my Linux box, together with a small web browser running locally, would be sweet. VNC is more lightweight in terms of CPU usage, but it hammers the network more than X does.
  • 'Cause they have the Apple example to show them how stupid that'd be, and 'cause Handspring could afford seriously high-powered lawyers to ream 'em out if they did.

    And mostly, 'cause Palm isn't dumb enough to want Hawkins' brains in direct opposition to them The current competitive cooperation is a heck of a lot better for them.

    Besides, no doubt the Palm folks are salivating at the thought of licensing the Springboard technology from Handspring. One hand washes the other, and all that.

  • Re: Info about Visor (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ZDNet has a good review of the Visor, with extensive info at http://www.zdn et.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2333074,00. html [zdnet.com].
  • I didn't see anything about it having an IP Stack or an add on ethernet card...definitely a must, though.
  • HERE HERE! I think the 'connected' palms where a good start. Now if Handspring offered a 'Connected' module at a low price, and a low monthly fee, I'd be ALL over that..
  • Yeah; judging by something I read on the website (which still looks to be "in-work"), the "solo" model is for folks that want additional Visors to hook in to an existing cradle. The idea, I guess, is for a classroom or office to be able to share a single cradle and save some bucks.
  • I too had a MessagePad 100 and IMHO it doesn't even begin to compare to the Pilot. Initially the big motivation for the Pilot was synchronization. I lost all my data twice on my Newton. With my Pilot, it's trivial to back it up so I never lose data (I actually sync to several computers even).

    (how come no one talks about the fact that you can't write natural language on these Palm things?). Graffiti was an aftermarket product for the Newton years ago

    I think you answered your own question. Why do you think that there was a market for Graffiti on the Newton? While natural handwriting recoginition would be nice, I'd rather take a few moments to learn Graffiti (it's really not hard) than fight with Newton recognition.

    Q: How many Newton users does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
    A: Faux! There to eat lemons, axe gravy soup!

    Seriously though, the Newton was very cool technology and way ahead of its time. As usual, Apple just screwed up. They packed in more and more features and the price rose up and up but they failed to provide a small, low-end model that the average joe could afford. The e-mate looked like it was pretty cool too (I notice some of the WinCE machines heading that direction).

  • Now why couldn't a wireless interface on the Visor be in constant contact with a host 'supercomputer' at all times? I don't know that this would be anything other than a convenience though, but having access to something to run Mathmatica or something else similar 24/7 would be nifty.


    -AS
  • I'm intrigued by the Handspring, as it finally has at least the potential of doing some of the things that my MessagePad 2100 does, like external expansion.

    Hopefully, there will be a nice adapter to use compact flash memory cards, and therefore, cradleless docking using cards, and ethenet capability. Maybe Apple will even build an AirPort module for the Handsping machines (as they are rumored to be doing for the Apple-branded Palms).
    Until then, I'll be luging around my 8bit screened, 2100 with PCMCIA ethernet, modem and 16mb expansion card, browsing and serving web pages, recieving and sending email, and reading the version of the IMDB converted to Newtonbook format. All without having to learn a new form of handwriting. (although, I do have a copy of Grafiti for the Newt)

    Now all I have to buy for my Newt are the GPS, the Leica laser rangefinder for making building plans, and the wireless pager card........
  • Though I agree the comment was probably worded as flamebait, I think the person has a point to make that many of us geeks don't like to admit. In terms of sheer practicality, the PalmPilots and their bretheren are nowhere near as useful for everyone as some people make them out to be. Some people swear by them, and use them a lot. I, on the other hand, don't, even though I have one, because it just didn't "take" with me.

    That's one thing I would like to see for these PDAs: Replaceable OS's and/or more customizable interfaces. The reason is that I apparently don't work the way most other people do (at least, that's how it seems to me). It's be nice to tweak the interface a lot, and have the ability to change some of the major components of the PalmOS paradigm.

    I know there are a lot of hacks out there that let you customize the palmos a lot, but there needs to be more modularity to the system so that you can sit at one "manager" interface and install and deinstall software at will from your PC. That would be nice. Sort of like Hackmaster for your PC. Is there something like that?

    Sujal

  • What, a Visor with the appropriate Springboard module isn't your taste? I'd imagine Visor would come out with it before Palm would.

    What would you do with it, btw? It would be only useful if you could either use the data(mp3s?) or transfer the data, and I don't think 340mb would transfer very quickly...


    -AS
  • You and I have discussed this before, at length, but I'll say it again. The Newton had all of these things, but was crippled by trying to do too much too soon (I'll admit, early HWR *sucked* but the later versions are very good), and by a compltete lack focused marketing to non-vertical markets.

    Now, if you want all the things you described above, you get a Newton, and live with a dwindling developer population, and some glaring feature ommissions (IRDa syncing, and connectivity to more desktop PIM's would be great), or get a WinCE machine, and I don't think I have to go into the minuses of that situation.

    What it all comes down to is the whether or not there is a market for a more robust machine. I think that there is, as there isn't anything usable on the market that will do all that my early 1998 Newton MP2100 will do, most notably, carry up to 32mb of data at once (or more with unlimited 24mb cards), talk Appletalk and tcp/ip over ethernet, browse and serve web pages, and have all of the PIM features tightly integrated?

    Geez I hope someone at Palm or Handspring is listening!
  • It's funny you should mention that - I was thinking the very same thing myself...

    ;)

    Tim
  • From what I can read the Visor(Solo) is just a Visor without a cradle; it can still sync, but it doesn't come with a cradle, on the assumption I guess that you can have 8 Visors sharing one cradle or something.


    -AS
  • Wow. One of the planned Springboard modules would be TigerWoods 99 or something like that.

    I wonder if they have any plan to do a GameBoy emulator/interface to pop in GameBoy cartridges into the Visor?

    Or if Nintendo would license the PalmOS for their Gameboy Advance coming out next year...

    Heck, Visor could just design and release a free GameAPI for PalmOS I guess.


    -AS
  • Well, the Vx is arround the corner (8 meg w/ faster dragonball)... And I know how to make an IIIx 8 meg... got a URL for 16 meg IIIxs?
  • The Visor:

    ...

    Has a connector on the bottom for the cradle which does _not_ fit other Palm cradles

    ...

    Won't take that long for a revised 'Bridg' to come out either...

  • Great idea, you should send it to handspring!

    Wrong! You haven't been paying attention! You are supposed to say:

    Great idea! You should apply for a patent!

    (but seriously, and sadly, this is probably patentable--maybe you should patent it and make the licensing be "you can use it only if you make all your patents free for use in free software" or something)
  • From day 1 of handspring, Jeff and Donna have been promising binary compatibility with existing PalmOS apps, and that is still on the menu for the visor. Of course, there will be the odd app that does something unorthodox directly with registers or OS globals (remember, no true memory protection in PalmOS) that will break, but there were already a couple of these when Palm switched from the 68328 in palm III to the 328EZ in V and IIIx.

    The greater worry is whether the hotsync and cradles will be compatible. I doubt that it would be flat-out incompatible, but I can imagine many minor headaches when your partner tries to sync their new visor to the same machine you use to sync your Palm V.
  • Um, so it's cheaper, comes with more memory(8mb on the deluxe version), and has superior upgrade capability with the Springboard. What would you call extraordinary? It can tell you bedtime stories? They talk about GPS, cellular connectivity, mp3 playback, dictation, voice control, wireless communication...

    There is nothing out there with this capability except maybe the Gameboy.


    -AS
  • I really don't see anything new here, beside's a Palm clone with a few newer features.. Not that this is a BAD thing, but it's not all that impressive in my mind.. Heck, it even looks EXACTLY like a Palm. Auto installing software via ROMS is a nice feature, but not enough to warrent the fuss being made..
  • I think you are misinformed. The Pilot does retain its memory for a short while even if you take its main batteries out. That's how it was designed. That way you can replace its batteries without lossing memory. Also, all your data is backed up in your PC (if you use HotSync) so everything is quite safe.
  • Me too - even though the Palm OS can't address more than 12MB, I can see the microdrive filling the same niche as the Parachute PCCard adapter for flash memory. Store data and applications on the microdrive and load them dynamically into the Palm OS main memory w/o having to iteratively install applications over and over.

    Better yet the microdrive should be used as one component that does voice recording & speech-to-text. So for example build a clipon device with its own powersupply, drive and ASIC. You speak into the device. The device stores the speech, indexes the entry to a Palm app, syncs the voice file to the PC. You then pipe the voice file through something like VIAVoice, convert it to text and sync it back to the Palm - either to the Palm unit or to the storage device depending on size.

  • Grayscale (Score:1)

    by AT ( 21754 )
    I think the Palm 3's have 4 bit greyscale

    I think it is actually 2 bit grayscale, i.e. four levels of gray.
  • You can't easily search your paper address book for phone numbers, dates, notes, etc.

    For example if I get a partially garbled number on my pager I can search for the legible portion on my Pilot and often figure out who called. (This is also usefull for legible numbers that I may or may not want to call back).

    Another handy use it to attach a note to meeting events. I enter the participants names and other misc notes. Then I can search for a name and get a list of every time I've met with that person.

    Finally, just the sheer volume of information you can fit into such a small space while having it all easily accessable make the Pilot far superior to any paper products.

  • Not sure students need Pilots? I find mine absolutely necessary -- particularly with the GoType, which lets me type notes in class and upload them to my computer later. With my Pilot, I have my notes with me constantly -- always useful. Furthermore, I (at least) do tend to forget things. Missed that danged luncheon with the Dean, forgot to pick up that cheque, got confused re the date and walked in late to a final... that sort of thing. With my Pilot, that doesn't happen -- and it's a great conversation starter.

    No reason you can't sync with a University computer, either... palm-link will work just fine. Modifying it to sync to different users' accounts and provide a level of security (requiring that a file exist with the right key or somesuch) would be a necessary thing to do before putting it into use, but that all should be simple. As for the web interface, that too should be a matter of fairly trivial changes to preexisting software.
  • So the thing runs the PalmOS. Cool. Is it the same hardware architecture? Can we drop Sun's KVM right in and run MicroJava? If so, count me in... the two things I want most from a handheld are a JVM (so I can write software for it... I'm addicted to Java... sue me) and TCP/IP with an ethernet port. A close third is a USABLE wireless connection that I can write Java apps to use... and not that Palm VII pseudo Internet crap either. I don't need to pay $20 a month for a 200k data limit.

    Moe

  • One problem. You don't lose it all if your notebook's batteries die.. ;-P That's my main beef. I wish I could swap batteries and have memory kept via capacitors for like 2 minutes or so..
  • Really? Well, I just lost one more reason to buy one.. ;-P Is this a feature of the newer models? At one time I used one of the original Palm's, and it didn't, so I told work I didn't really use it..
  • The GoType should work.
  • or maybe even hardware java decoding (picojava?) it would be nice to see a consumer portable that could run java, quickly, using the springboard modules. hell, i'd buy one.

  • *IF* the cradle is USB-based, this is good news for you Mac users (if you are using a recent machine). However, considering the shaky support for USB in Linux, that's bad news for the rest of us.

    They have serial cradles available for (ack!) $20. I bought one, not knowing if my old palm pro cradle will work. (I got the deluxe model, in green.) As far as Linux compatibility, it's a virtual certainty that the old pilot-xfer stuff should work, as should jpilot, kpilot, etc.

    Besides, maybe this will encourage someone to do a nice little USB bit for this. That'd make me extra happy. :-)

  • PalmOS 2.0+ all have a TCP/IP stack built-in.

    As for adding a NIC, I don't think anyone cares, really, whether there's a standard 10Base-T or whatever card available. The Palm is not a device designed for connecting up via Ethernet for extended periods of time. A much better solution would be wireless connectivity, whether it be CDPD, Ricochet, WaveLAN, or whatever.
  • The Deluxe model is supposed to be available in 5 different covers, 4 being translucent colors (green, blue, yellow, and white/clear), ala the iMac.
  • According to the ABC news stories this baby uses PalmOS and modified versions of the standard Palm apps. Does that make it completely Palm-compatible?

    Around here lots of people have got Palm IIIs. I'm was planning on getting one soon, but with the Visor out I'm not so sure. Compatibility is very important. I need to be able to synchronise diaries and exchange applications with other people. If the Visor can't do that 100% then I'm afraid its back down to Palm.

    Paul.

  • I used to try to sell Palms in a college bookstore, and 90% of our units sold to professors, doctors, or departments. Why? Two reasons: Price and 'technology'.

    Palms are simply priced out of the average college student's market. Even at $229 for the cheapest unit, there's no way a college student could afford it. Now, at $149 or even $179, a college kid could scrimp a little on bar funds or donate plasma a couple of times and pick one of these cool puppies up. Or ask for one for christmas and actually maybe get it. If the plug-ins (literally!) cost under a hundred for useful modules, then better still! Imagine - an HP Calculator module that turns your palm into a high-end graphic calculator. What Engineering/Physics geek wouldn't drool over one?

    Now, that second reason, 'technology'? The problem with a high-tech toy like this is that a good portion of college students have problems running word processors in computer labs - they just don't have the technological savvy that lends one to go, 'Oooh! I have to have one of those!', mostly because they don't understand it, can't get it to work, could never learn the shorthand... A myriad of reasons. However, something like this - something that with a mere plug-in of a module, changes the unit into something else equally useful - as long as it's relativly intuitive for use, could sell very well in a college market.

    Even at $150, I'd be willing to shell out money for a *very* good calendar/address book in a college market. It would have come in handy to keep track of assignments and phone numbers when I was in school. Here's to Handspring, and the hopes that they spark a market for inexpensive, easy-to-use handhelds that even a Freshman Sorority-pledge can use.

  • Will the speaker be powerful/loud enough to play DTMF tones for auto dialing of phone numbers?!

    ...the Holy Grail of the PalmPilot users everywhere...

    Stupid thing - I would be willing to spend a couple hundred dollars to get a feature that probably costs 23-cents extra to make possible.

    The Visor sounds QUITE sweet! 3Com may make bucks off of PalmOS licenses, but is going to lose a ton of sales of hardware to Handspring.

    ...Now what is 3Com's thinking in spinning off Palm Computing to a separate company? It was a cash cow, now what is the future?
    --
  • I was browsing about the development page, and found this.:

    Q. Should we put rechargeable cells in the Springboard Module? If we do this, can we recharge FROM the Visor Cradle THROUGH the Springboard module connector TO our rechargeable in the module? OR do we need to have a wall adapter jack on the module for recharging?

    A. Unfortunately our first generation cradle will not supply power to the VDOCK pin. If you want to use a rechargeable battery, you have three options:

    Put a barrel connector in the remote itself and charge it separately from Visor. This probably makes the most sense in the short term, since people who use their Visor quite a bit during the day when they are out of the home would be perfectly happy to recharge their remote at home during the day. If the remote had to be recharged through Visor, that puts Visor out of commission during recharging (or at least makes it cumbersome to use).
    Build your own charging cable. We will have connectors that hook onto the bottom of Visor. You could use these to build a charging cable for the remote, using the VDOCK pin. But again, users would have to effectively give up using their Visor during recharging....could be unattractive.
    Build your own charging cradle. This could be a pretty interesting product, not only for the remote but for other rechargeable products as well. However, it would be expensive, and Handspring will come out with a charging cradle sometime next year which will probably be standard with our products. So it might also be riskier. But since most people hotsync anyway, this solves the problem of users losing Visor functionality. Long term this is the way to go, but short term it's probably not
  • Q. Should we put rechargeable cells in the Springboard Module? If we do this, can we recharge FROM the Visor Cradle THROUGH the Springboard module connector TO our rechargeable in the module? OR do we need to have a wall adapter jack on the module for recharging?

    A. Unfortunately our first generation cradle will not supply power to the VDOCK pin. If you want to use a rechargeable battery, you have three options:

    Put a barrel connector in the remote itself and charge it separately from Visor. This probably makes the most sense in the short term, since people who use their Visor quite a bit during the day when they are out of the home would be perfectly happy to recharge their remote at home during the day. If the remote had to be recharged through Visor, that puts Visor out of commission during recharging (or at least makes it cumbersome to use).
    Build your own charging cable. We will have connectors that hook onto the bottom of Visor. You could use these to build a charging cable for the remote, using the VDOCK pin. But again, users would have to effectively give up using their Visor during recharging....could be unattractive.
    Build your own charging cradle. This could be a pretty interesting product, not only for the remote but for other rechargeable products as well. However, it would be expensive, and Handspring will come out with a charging cradle sometime next year which will probably be standard with our products. So it might also be riskier. But since most people hotsync anyway, this solves the problem of users losing Visor functionality. Long term this is the way to go, but short term it's probably not

  • Batteries (Score:4)

    by EnglishTim ( 9662 ) on Monday September 13, 1999 @10:37PM (#1684093)
    It would be nice to see whether it is possible to recharge it's batteries from the docking cradle - it's one of the things that I miss from my PalmIII.

    Also, the GPS module sounds *very* interesting. It'd be great if it could integrate with some of the 'alarm' functionality in the calendar application, as I tend to find that I want to be reminded to do things when I'm in certain places, rather than at specific times - i.e. to be able to specify rules like:

    o Remind me to pay my phone bill 10 minutes after I get home.
    o Remind me to buy some weedkiller next time I'm the the town centre.
    o If I'm still at work at 7:30pm on Tuesday, remind me that the first episode of 'Futurama' is being shown on Sky1 at 8:00...

    Tim



  • It's not the real URL, but if the cap fits...

    Looking at the PalmInfocenter site [palminfocenter.com], the first thing that struck me was the poll in the top right:

    My next PDA will be a...
    o HandSpring
    o Palm VII
    o Palm V
    o Color Palm
    o M$ WinCE (ed: their use of "$")

    I'm a little surprised there wasn't a "Rob sux" option down the bottom :)

    Anyhow, I guess it's not an official site, but it's exceptionally well done nonetheless. There's even a "palmtop edition" that's formatted to work on the 'lil suckers. Most cute.
  • I suspect one of the main reasons that they've not got Linux support is that they've probably licensed large amounts of the PC/Mac-side PalmOS-related software from Palm as well as just the basic operating system. They could probably get away with just rewriting the actual communication sections, so as to get it to work over USB.

    Linux would require substantially more work.

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