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Hardware

World's smallest PII motherboard? 74

Posted by CmdrTaco from the little-yellow-better-(well,-not-yellow) dept.
Zoyd writes "Just out with the world's smallest PII motherboard is Cell Computing. Dimensions: 3 x 5 x 0.7". Weight: 170g. "
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World's smallest PII motherboard? More

World's smallest PII motherboard?

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  • A little too late (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This would have been good for my car since when I build something it has to be nice/reliable. I recently installed a P166MMX CPU/motherboard and a dual CPU (40MHz SuperSPARC) SPARCstation 10 motherboard into my car. The sparcstation runs Solaris 2.5.1 and runs some very expensive voice recoginition software. Linked to the pentium w/a RJ-45 crossover cable. All in all it's basically how "Kitt" would be in the real world, except I didn't use a Trans-Am and the voice recognition is only used to me, and even that's certainly not perfect ;). This would have been a great piece of hardware though... unless it totally burns a hole in the wallet.

  • Re:Power? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Just power your small WindowsNT(tm)(r) Server microserver with the blood of penguins.
  • I know what you're trying to say, but just because we get beoweenies spamming every time doesnt mean its shit.

  • I think I hear your mother calling .......

  • very cute.

    J.

  • If you want a more modern VME bus PC, then go take a look at CompactPCI hardware -- it's basically PCI in a VME-like formfactor. Ziatech [ziatech.com] has a whole pile of P2 boards, as do Moto rola [mot.com] and quite a few other vendors. They aren't cheap, though. If we could get cPCI hardware for less than a 100% price premium, I'd be seriously considering them in a lot of places that we're using more traditional rack-mount PCs today.

  • have a look at www.empeg.com [emepeg.com] - car MP3 player which runs linux.

    Uses a StrongARM SA-110 CPU, which draws something like ~500mW peak and something in the region of 5-10mW idle.
  • Any ideas on what will power the wearables of the next century?

    StrongARM [strongarm.com] are nice.

    Designed by ARM Ltd. (UK company). Licensed by a lot of companies, eg intel. RISC-like, 32-bit. Currently available at up to 233MHz or so. Intel says they'll produce 600MHz+ versions in the near future.

    Extremely low power consumption. Less than a Watt peak for the 233MHz version (~450mW @ 160MHz), just a few mW idle.

    Supported by linux (eg the Netwinder). Company in England has an SA-110 ATX motherboard iirc. Also used in things like RAID controllers (Mylex's new one i think) and Empeg (car mp3 player -> www.empeg.com).
  • If memory serves they were showing this toy at LWE on the expo floor; it was playing the role of a server... I was suitably impressed. If it weren't for the fact I don't need that much horsepower in a box and I need PC/104 support, I'd be using it. As it is, I've ordered the predecessor, the CardPC and a MightyMite carrier.
  • Hit http://www.cellcomuting.com [cellcomputing.com] and follow the stuff from there.

    They've got some really cool stuff (they also have the CardPC which was being seriously considered for wearable use...).

    As for power supplies, try the size of a notebook supply (which is all this really is, is a notebook motherboard in a tighter form factor...) Doesn't bulk it up too much and if you factor that these things are intended to be wedged into process control systems that don't have a lot of space but can source the power to the unit, these things are a godsend.

    The Parvus [parvus.com] corporation is a reseller of these things and they've integrated the CardPC (the predecessor to this new toy) into their PC/104 line. Why do I mention this? Because they're going to be selling a substantial portion of their product line at Fry's to allow anyone interested to do embedded systems easily.
  • It's http://www.cellcomputing.com [cellcomputing.com]. The link works fine, I just typoed the text for the link.
  • Just a quick question to those folks who get
    off on this kind of stuff: anyone seen an
    embedded Pentium or above with a 3D accel
    chip on there? I have a valid embedded use :-)

    --
    Insanity Takes Its Toll. Please Have Exact Change

  • I would bet that the damn thing probably runs fairly hot ... and yes, It would be pretty slick to put a cluster in a briefcase. :-)

    /dev
  • This happens to be on a rare occasion, and I have a Super 7 (K6-300) board.
    --GAck
  • Cell Had a booth at the LW expo in San Jose. They have the P2, which looks like an HDA minus the platters, a pentium, and 486 boxen. The P166 is supposed to be something like $999. I was asking because of a mobile MP3 player. They were selling Happing Hacking keyboards as well.
  • I would like to use something small like this in the car. Use a wireless lan to dl MP3's via a cron job to the car overnight. Never have to futz with carrying disks to the vehicle. Power drain is an issue for the car though. Perhaps APM can idle it nicely, I don't want a dead battery after leaving the car at the airport for a week or two.
  • Forbidden donut....

    Yee cats, but it's tiny. Such tech must be put to good use. So....um...send me a few, and I'll see what I can do (8

    I'm sorry. What I meant to say was 'please excuse me.'
    what came out of my mouth was 'Move or I'll kill you!'
  • That's even smaller than the chip itself! (if you count the casing) What exactly can one do with one of these things? I think the PII draws wayyy too much power to be used in any portable or whatever type applications, right? Oh well, it is still nifty!
  • Maybe some sort of 'off' switch is required ...

    Really, it'd be possible to telnet or ssh to it and shut it down. Just prod a button to boot-up when you get back in the car so many weeks later.

    Lovely idea though using it in the car.. mmm...
  • fit a P2 on top of a hard drive (you'd have more space if you used a mobile Pentium) and it could run any unix just fine but why would you want to? Intel chips while nice to work on do suck power like a bitch (a 2 hour laptop battery is just crappy no matter what an salesman says). If I were going to build a tiny system I would want a PPC or a non-Intel x86 like a MediaGX or something that uses alot less power. What I want as a wearable is something like my watch, it ran for seven years on a single battery even with a whole bunch of stuff stored in memory, not like my cell phone which needs to be recharged all the time if I'm out all day with it on. I wouldn't want a handheld that needed to be charged every 8 hours either. When LEPs (Light Emitting Polymers) get more refined they will make screens cheaper and consume less power than LCDs. As for the chip, something that would only use as much power as it needed for whatever process it was running, doesn't the StrongARM do that? Anyways, when I get a few MONTHS out of a battery in my handheld I'll buy one but not until then.
  • Doesn't the P2 have a pretty high power requirement? I got into an argument with a big angry German about how much power our lab computers were drawing when SETI@home was still cool, and his EE knowledge told us that those suckers are black holes for electricity.

    So it seems like the next step to make wearables truly useful is some kind of new power mechanism, so we don't have to swap out batteries every night. My digital camera gets a lot more life out of NiMH than alkaline batteries, so they're a good first step... but having to recharge after a couple of 8mb cards' worth of pictures is still a hassle.

    Any ideas on what will power the wearables of the next century?

  • It's a hardware prob, but not the chipset, exactly. First, are you overclocking the memory bus (i.e. not 66MHz or 100MHz)? You could cheezle the PIIX or confuse the drive, since the PCI clock is 1/2 or 1/3 the memory bus clock (the DMA transfer mode is governed by the PCI clock). Running at 83MHz bus, regardless of the CPU's multiplied clock speed, makes you run the controller at 25% over rated speed!!! I've had no luck with multiple boards at 83, one an SIS 5571 and the other an Intel BX, though it's been known to be stable at 75. Second, what kind of cable do you have? Is it UDMA-rated? The cables designed to do so have a finer pitch ribbon cable so that every other wire is a ground lead. This decreases signal loss over distance. Look at *this* [firmware.com] for more info on these cables. Also, is the cable hooked into any other IDE devices, esp. ones that don't do UDMA? Putting UDMA devices on a separate bus can sometimes alleviate these troubles.

    Me? I believe in SCSI. It "Just Works", with far less CPU overhead and sickeningly fast throughput. It's worth every last penny.
  • Per the press release:

    The 333MHz Pentium II Plug-N-Run module is available immediately with volume pricing set at $399.00.

  • Install Tweak UI from http://www.microsoft.com/NTWorkstation/downloads/P owerToys/Networking/NTTweakUI.asp, select light arrow, then normal arrow, and OK. Should change them back. Try also deleting the shelliconcache file and rebooting. The best method is to reapply the current service pack.

    "SP5 - The way NT was supposed to be."
  • If you're using parallel programs, Beowulf is nice. But for ordinary use, MOSIX [huji.ac.il] is better because it will distribute processes across systems automatically. So you just set up your piped scripts or parallel make the usual way.
  • It's a real dig to get to the datasheet on these on their website, 'cuz I was curious about that myself. It's no wonder that it's buried deep though. At 14 watts (about 1.1 amp draw) for the pII 333 model you aint gonna be using AA pen cells for them. That's without your hardrive too. So you better start doing some excersises down at the gym 'cuz your gonna need that hardbody.

    BTW, with all the heat you'll be generating the duck tape will turn into a sticky mess.
  • All of a sudden everything is fast, but these are old articles.
  • moderators are 'signed in' people - a random swathe of those who log in are given moderatorship for three days ( you cant moderate and comment on the same topic ).

    if you never sign in you will never be able to moderate.

    ray
  • Heh it's one of those "I would love to have a beowulf cluster with these things"-guys again :) Where are my moderator-points when I need 'em ?
  • Actually, all things should have their prices shown. I'm sometimes shopping for PLCs, compact PCs (sometimes that Linux box has to fit in a shoebox on the end of a crane boom), or ordinary PCs. I always have to consider the price range.

    Man, that's painful. Basically, they all want you to call them so that they can lay their salesmen on you. They know that you probably aren't going to call *every* maker of similar products and that you will probably choose one of those you call.

    Then again, when you call they sometimes send samples. Unfortunately SBC makers don't do that. Microchip does, however. Hmmm, I should hit them up for some of those new flash PICs. They look quite interesting.
  • Finally, a computer that takes little desk space, and is just big enough to hold my coffee, and with intel inside, it should keep my coffee hot, and the office warm!
  • I think that no matter what we must all admit that it is pretty cool to fit a full P2 system in the space of a 3x5 index card (the volume of two poptarts!). So its cool. Enough said.

    But what about applications? I am considering picking one of these boards up. Anyone have any ideas on hobby projects? I think it will use too much power to build a small robot. Would a handheld P2 system be possible? Any other creative ideas (other than MP3 players)?

    Other concerns:
    Where can I get tiny TFT screens?
    Are there any low power/small size hard drives? What about shock resistance?
    Anyone know where I can get a tiny keyboard?

    Any suggestions would help! I will build a webpage to document the project's progress to keep everyone informed.

  • Hey.. to anyone who knows who the hell this company is and can find real information on this thing, give me a url.. Does that thing include some sort of power supply on it? I seriously doubt it but I can hope right? Once you add a power supply to that thing it is bulky as hell.. if you ignore the power supply you could duct tape (or super gloo) a 13 gig harddrive to it and (if it had tv out) plug it into a tv for the screen.. need some tiny keyboard to go on top, but it would make a kewl tiny server (yer, that's useful) or you could just use it to kickarse presentations. When power is no longer a problem I'll find a use for these things, but I refuse to lug around the never-decreasing-in-size power supply.
  • Do they have a price for this thing listed somewhere? I haven't been able to find one.
  • I would love to have a beowulf cluster with these things...
    ...if only I had the money!!!

    Of course, it might be for the world's better good that I don't. :(
  • > Anyone besides me always get those wierd NT problems where all your desktop icons get replaced by other applications?

    Yes indeed. That happened to me just the other day. My shut down icon was replaced with the help icon, the help icon with a globe, etc. Very strange.

    Oh, and to keep this moderately on topic: I wonder if the same thing would happen on one of those mini-pentiums? :)

  • do shut up.
  • I'm thinking about doing this with an old Sun 3/50. Rip out the old power supply, layout a PC supply in its place, get an integrated PC motherboard (ether+IDE+USB+vid) and slap an HD behind the power supply, if there's any space. Now if I can only figure out how to drive that beautiful 19" mono ECL monitor... ;-)

    I can't think of any way of allowing expansion, and I've already looking into building a PC with a VME backplane, it seems nobody uses those things anymore (too slow..? Too much physical distance?) You *can* get a PC board to fit a VME backplane with PCI mezzanines. A very odd take on SMP with several VME cards I suppose.. reminisicient of an old SPARCCenter maybe.
  • Check your power supply. I have found that when a power supply is dying, hard drives are the first to notice, and that is a typical error for that sort of thing.
  • www.uclinux.org more functional and $100 less too!
  • It does have an IDE controller built in--and video, etc. The plugnrun is not a standalone device. The signals come in through the carrier card that you attach the plugnrun to. There's more info on Cell Computing's website.
  • It uses SDRAM SODIMMs, similar to what you'd find in a high end notebook.
  • Who wants to go in on some to qualify for the volume discount????
  • who needs it, all I want is a modern incarnation of The Handy Board [mit.edu]. I have a really cool Lego project in mind...
    --
  • "As long as you didn't use a Toyota Tercel or an 84 Honda Accord."

    How about an '89 Honda CRX? Plenty of room in the back to hold all the equipment...

    Hrmmmm.....

    <goes back to drawing board>


  • I get that error on all my Maxtor udma33 ide hard drives on pentium1 boards.
  • Yeah, it is pretty small, but who wants the smallest motherboard. Mabey for a laptop, but for a desktop computer, I think the motherboards that we have are a good size, and they actually have and fit good compontents. For Laptops I say go ahead, get the smallest motherboard known to man, but for all of us human NON Bill Gate's, who don't have all the money in the world, get a real motherboard. You'll be much happier.
  • It looks as if Slashdot fell back to the old server. At least 24 hours of news suddenly disappeared.

    Bruce

  • Holy CRAP that thing's tiny. That doesn't really have much information on it, though, and it seems to be for mobile P2s, which makes sense, of course, but those aren't exactly as accessable or cheap as Slot1 or Socket370 chips. Though it IS small enough for a decent wearable... Wonder if they'd consider making a version with a good 3D chip in it such as the Rage128, which is really designed for OEM integration, though finding a place to put all the video memory could be a problem... (not to mention that although Rage128s don't put out much heat power, they get really hot)
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
  • Read the whitepapers. Apparently it uses the mobile P2. Wouldn't surprise me if they were to do a model which takes Socket370 chips either. But the whitepaper [cellcomputing.com] gives several ideas and specs.
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
  • Amazing how the stuff gets smaller and smaller, so I was thinking what elsecould this be used for?
    1. Couple this with Apple's Airport networking, and you'd have a portable brick that cracks rc5/des AND you can put it by your feet under the blanket this winter.
    2. How about an multifunction MP3player for your car? This baby just small enough to fit in an air conditioning duct. On cold New England days I could crank that air conditioning up and keep warm...
    3. Wearable computers? Not for humans, BUT... strap it to a live pig, put it in a box, and have THE freshest cooked ham *EVER*.
    4. High-tech, self-propelled hot air balloons..? If they run hot enough they'd be lighter than air.. :-p


    Anyone besides me always get those wierd NT problems where all your desktop icons get replaced by other applications? Explorer's using Netscape Composer's icon right now, and Quake icon's for Word. Wacky...

  • Of course, I gotta be first to ask, "wouldn't it be nifty to have a beowolf cluster in a briefcase??" ;-)

    seriously though, i think these are cool. probably hella expensive and all though.

    *offtopic* Dagnabit, I'm tired of waiting ...waiting for xfree4, waiting for KDE 2, Koffice, slackware 5, corelinux, Berlin, friday, october...money for guitar...money for new puter...waiting waiting waiting...

  • You can find an outline of spec here [cellcomputing.com]. As for price, EMJ [emjembedded.com] doesn't have the P2-333 listed, but the P-233 version is US$1061 in single quantities. I wouldn't expect the P2-333 to be much more than $1200-1500. Observed maximum power consumption is 14.1W; averages they give for Windows* are 4.2-3W.

    You'll probably want (need, actually) to get one of these [cellcomputing.com] if you want to actually use the module; the CardPAC provides all the physical I/O. 3.75"x5.3"x1.1" dimensions. Costs $999 [cellcomputing.com] direct from Cell Computing.

    Doesn't have SB-compatible audio; does have USB though.

    Plug a 256MB DIMM in, boot off a CompactFlash card and you've got one screamin' machine!
  • Damn, what a sweet Beowulf cluster these would make, just imagine how many you could cram in a room.

    I feel dirty now.
  • Price ranges are mentioned in the press releases.

    Don't you wish such web sites would mention the prices in more obvious places? Unless they're giving their stuff away?

    Actually, all things should have their prices shown. I'm sometimes shopping for PLCs, compact PCs (sometimes that Linux box has to fit in a shoebox on the end of a crane boom), or ordinary PCs. I always have to consider the price range.

  • Not anymore, really. You have to set 'willing to moderate' on your prefs, then you will get 5 points with which to moderate. When you've spent those points, you no longer can moderate until you get another 5 points. Availability of points seems to be driven by number of overall posts to /. and Rob seems to have tweaked this over time to make fewer points available.

    I used to get moderator access every few weeks, but I've since changed my prefs to not willing to moderate. On the whole, I've found that the moderating doesn't do anything for me since I browse at -1 anyway and all I see happening is that ppl complain about it more than anything else.

    If it works for you and you set your limit to +2, great. If you think it sucks, set your limit to -1 and change your prefs to not show scores at all. If you valuate your worth as a human being based on the scores given to you /. posts, you need to get a new hobby :)

  • OK, so what's the big deal? Intel has been making
    the MMO modules for a couple of years now, and these things look like they've just bought them and attached a fan to it...

    Aren't these modules already inside most PII mobiles sold today?

    Hrmmm....

  • Oops (Score:3)

    by Pascal Q. Porcupine ( 4467 ) on Tuesday August 31, 1999 @03:48PM (#1712749) Homepage
    In my haste, I didn't notice that there was more to the whitepaper than just the simple specs and usual marketing hype. This thing's *real* neat... and they also have other products which would also be useful for a whole bunch of projects I can think of. For example, perhaps an entertainment center component with a slim form factor, or maybe a complete system which is completely out of the way except for the display... hook it up to one of those NTSC serial terminals (as mentioned on /. many moons ago, which can do text overlays on an NTSC signal) and use it to do... well, anything really.

    And since it's going to be said eventually anyway, these could be used for having a complete Beowulf cluster in a single case... :)

    Man. This could even be used for a handheld running BeOS or that obscure UNIX clone everyone keeps talking about or something...

    Damn. if only I had the time, energy, and drive to do projects with these things...
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

  • Re:Price (Score:3)

    by SEWilco ( 27983 ) on Wednesday September 01, 1999 @07:20AM (#1712750) Journal
    I think that is only the module, which is basically the CPU and I/O assembly. You still need to plug it into a board which has all the standard connectors. I think over on the side was a link to a development kit for about $1,000.

    But they'd prefer for you to spend the time of a salesman to learn these things rather than put the prices there and set up a real catalog which has such information for those who want to buy an appropriate set of devices.

  • Re:Two suitcases and some Power Rangers to carry t (Score:3)

    by SEWilco ( 27983 ) on Wednesday September 01, 1999 @07:29AM (#1712751) Journal
    I've forgotten...
    How much power does a human body generate? Maybe it could power some computers...
    Now where have I heard that idea before?

    Seriously, there are possible sources for human-powered wearable computing [mit.edu].

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