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Handhelds Hardware

3Com Sues over DaVinci 45

Posted by justin++ from the deja-vu dept.
poetbill writes "Palm Computing has obtained a preliminary injunction prohibiting Royal from selling its rival DaVinci handheld device, which 3Com claims was copied from the Palm operating system." Does this remind anyone of a similar case from a few years back?
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3Com Sues over DaVinci More

3Com Sues over DaVinci

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  • You know, this story is greatly distorted. The very large software company's OS did not catch on in large numbers at all until 1990 (Version 3.0 of that operating system). The same OS really didn't gain its near-monopoly status until sometime after 1993. (Before about 1992/1993, most computers ran on the very large software companies earlier efforts, which weren't even graphical.)

    So the larger companies graphical OS really didn't catch on until *well* after the earlier companies computer became color-capable.

    And the realm of computing is split into far more than two camps. You have the Windows camp. The smaller, but still existant OS/2 camp. The Linux/xBSD camp. The commercial Unix camp. The still-very-much-active Amiga contingent. The BeOS camp. Need I go on?

    Don't be so short-sighted. There are many, many more viable platforms than the one you happen to find attractive.

  • handspring will do this, I hope

  • Replay TV and TiVo are about to get hit by some major lawsuits contending that they need to pay licensing fees to the networks.

    Networks are treating these as they would a Sattelite system as they allow skipping over commercials (major source of network revenue).

    Two faults here:

    1. Sattelite systems don't allow skipping over commercials. You'll just recieve network commercials only with no local commercials., and
    2. There are federal court precidents granting the rights of end-users to time and space shift copyrighted materials that they have legally obtained. These would be the rulings in favor of JVC and Diamond Multimedia.
  • Like I said - I know of these options. However, I doubt any title you write would end up in the store (so that others may purchase it and play it). The point is getting the game to a mass audience - not just a core group who would be willing to burn thier own ROM. The need for the physical media (the cartridge) is the barrier.

    If the GB was a completely programmable device which you loaded the games into (similar to the MP3 devices offered), then it would be viable for mass marketing via the Net, since there wouldn't be any need for the exchange of physical media. However, the GB isn't this way...

    Which is where a Palm-type device could come into play (no pun intended) - being that it is programmable, and that software is loaded onto it from a host machine (rather than as a packaged ROM). This makes the dissemination of software via third party channels much easier for both the distributor, as well as the consumer, thus allowing for a third-party game to reach a wider audience.

    All this is nice, but off the core topic of my question - the question at hand is why aren't there buttons arranged for directional control of something? Even if all they were used for was as an alternative to scrolling they would be useful (the current method for scrolling on a palm is OK - but it reminds me too much of flipping DIP switches with a pen)...
  • What case???
  • Here's the story thus far:

    First, a nifty little graphical computing device comes out on the market. Although its display is only black-and-white, its intuitive GUI and extensibility makes it an instant hit with developers. It sells quickly, but detractors are quick to point out the shortcomings of this machine, based on a Motorola processor.

    Later, a very large software company designs a colorful, feature-rich operating system to compete with this earlier computer. However, it doesn't make the hardware to go with the software; rather, it licenses out the OS to many equipment manufacturers to encourage lower prices and larger selection. As it turns out, however, this causes compatibility issues, and the system is weighed down by "feature bloat" to try and solve every problem at once.

    Many first-time customers are wowed by the longer feature list and higher numbers of this large software company's OS's models, even though many of them perform poorly in "real-world" applications. As a result, the realm of computing is indelibly split into two camps, and they fight tooth and nail over every little thing.

    Plug in a few proper nouns here and there, and you could be talking about 1986 or 1999.
  • Its a shame... From what i've seen of DaVinci, its not a half bad machine. I'm still quite happy with my Psion5, but Having a palm-unit would be a bit more useful for me at this point.
  • I am rather irked that no one is seeing that there is any compatibility between OS's and handhelds before one handheld totally triumphs over all the others and gains a 95% market share *cough*windows*cough*. Palm is trying to keep their stuff proprietary, just like Microsoft does (who then cries "standards!" when they try to enter a market where they have .005% market share). But then the DaVinci people are then selling their handheld for $99... either it's one of those "you get what you pay for" or they are pulling the eMachine stunt and selling at below cost. (prob to gain market share...). I don't think either companies are quite playing the fair competition game here.
  • I see the link is broke, so it's also covered here:
    http://mu.current.nu [current.nu]
    and at
    http://www.pdabuzz.com [pdabuzz.com]
  • I think Handspring is the company you're thinking about (the ones lead by former Palm people). Palm is trying to licence their OS for other non-3com made devices (similar to IBM's Workpad). If their claims about da Vinci are true, abd this is a case of someone just copying code. I'd say Palm's the right.
  • Has anyone tried this application? It's GPL'd, and sound like it tries to mimic the windows version of the palm desktop pretty closely.
  • I think he was referring to a similar case brought by 3Com against Microsoft (or threatened to bring... can't remember) regarding the Microsoft palm-type device. I don't thing that it's relevant, though, as this seems to be more of a straight copyright complaint.

    Sujal

  • Justin, fix your link. It's busted up.
    Here's C|NET's version [news.com].
  • Here's the 3Com press release on BW [yahoo.com] and here's C/Net's interpretation [news.com].

  • Palm is trying to keep their stuff proprietary, just like Microsoft does....

    Whoa there. ``Keeping [code] proprietary'' is not the same as ``rejecting standards''. Just because 3Com doesn't want daVinci to dupe their code, doesn't mean that 3Com is actively opposing clones that do similar things with similar interfaces. The claim 3Com is making is that ``portions of the copyrighted Palm OS operating system software were copied verbatim in the daVinci products, in violation of the United States copyright laws'' (from the press release [yahoo.com]), and that's just not cool (assuming it's true, which of course is yet to be proven). Don't try to co-opt this into a big-bad-monopoly argument....

  • Does this remind anyone of a similar case from a few years back?

    A little bit, but the actual allegation has nothing to do with look-and-feel, but rather ``that some of the DaVinci operating system was lifted directly from the Palm OS'' (from the C|Net article). Of course, that could be made up, but it's not just another Mac-Windows or iMac-iPC style suit.

  • Yeah, but if you really want games, get a Gameboy... there's lots of games for it, it fits in your shirt pocket, and they're cheap.
  • Why wouldn't you buy one? Because they're trying to enforce their rights?

    I expect that even gung-ho open sourcers would be ticked off if I swiped Linux, and claimed I had written it myself. Even RMS likes credit for his contributions.

    I don't see Palm as doing anything I wouldn't do in their place.
  • No, Handspring is the start-up by the old Palm chief. And palm has every right to protect it's intellecyual property if it feels so inclined. This is not to say I do not support Open-Source, and please don't email me saying that is. Just that Palm has developed this software, and they have rights. I am just glad they are not suing everyone who is porting it to linux.

    OctaneZ
  • I might be wrong, bu wasn't da Vinci the company that's headed by the former Palm chief, and operation with Palm's approval? I think I remember reading about how this was Palm's ploy to (re)capture the market, by having cheap clones. Anyway, it's not cool on Palm's part.
  • As it turns out, however, this causes compatibility issues, and the system is weighed down by "feature bloat" to try and solve every problem at once.
    Yeah.... it seems to be another one of those situations in which, to conquer the market, the company tries to be everything at once, so that they'll have a rush of supporters for start up (even though their product sucks) so that they can ensnare these supporters with upgrades as they work frantically to improve their product to 'working' status... later to introduce a new release, fabled to correct the problems of the original/previous version(s) and to introduce new and never-seen-before features.

    ha! who do they think they're kidding?
  • Actually, the IBM workpad is a 3com made device. I've got mine right in front of me. It may have the IBM logo on the front, and the 3com logo is on the back. Dare i also mention that i got it from a 3com sales rep? IBM sells it to people who like Big Blue's name behind stuff.
  • I don't see why Palm is bothering. I have a daVinci, and trust me, it's no winner. Actually, it sucks. I can never sync. Not a lot of software, and what software there is sucks. Can't sync. Handwriting recognition has trouble telling the difference between "b" and "d", and "f" only works right about 1/2 the time. Can't sync. No support for repeating events. Can't sync. Single-tone alarm that keeps beeping for 1 minute, then stops instead of going off for five minutes, then beeping again. Can't sync.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the daVinci OS was copied from Palm's. Royal doesn't seem to know very much about it, and Palm asm compilers work fine - you just have to strip some bytes of the beginning of the binary to get it to work.

    Frankly, I expect the daVinci to be dead within a year or two. At $99, they can't be making much of a profit off it, and support for it ROYALLY [sic] sucks.

    -Ender Stonebender
    (And did I mention I can't get the damn to synchronize with my PC?)
  • Bob Metcalfe can keep is palms and his crappy Winmodems and his FUD to himself. I will never buy anything from any company associated with this asshole.

    Would you be happier to know that Bob Metcalfe hasn't had anything to do with 3COM for years? In fact, he's quite bitter about it. Seems that he was forcefully ousted from the company he founded.

    Granted... all this has nothing to do with the legal standings and product offerings of 3COM. And it has nothing, really, to do with your misguided rant. All we're doing is confusing the issue with facts, right?

  • They have to defend trademarks against dilution, but I don't believe the same is true of copyright. If they can prove it's theirs, they can sue anyone anywhere and win, whether or not they previously defended it. That's cause trademarks are small, i.e. "You've Got Mail" (tm Amreica on Lien [AOL]), and are harder to prove it's yours. Lines of text, code, or music are a lot easier to prove they are yours.

  • $99??! (Score:1)

    by cr0sh ( 43134 )
    One of the big sticking points with me about the Palm Pilot has been its price - $200 is a little bit pricey for what you get (but just a little - $150 would be a better price point). The only other thing that the Palm Pilot has problems in is the interface.

    The writing interface is pretty cool - no problem with that. But the buttons below the screen should be arranged differently. They are fine for business uses - but I wish they were arranged better for wider application (like games). Along comes the DaVinci - and wow, buttons arranged in a cross-pattern, plus extra buttons next to it - a new handheld gaming platform!

    I realize that the Palm Pilot (and others) aren't meant for games - but let's face it, neither was the PC. Only when people started to play serious games on it did it start to become better (think about it - most peripheral devices in use today were developed with gaming in mind - sound cards, graphic accelerators, cd-rom drives). As they became better, PCs became more widespread. The same thing will probably happen with handhelds...
  • Then why not buy a Palm? Of course you'd be paying premium for it, because currently there are no real competitors. A used one could prolly be had for less than $200, and one of those Palm IIIe are $229 new, right? I really hope more Palm work-alikes come out, and at lower price points.

    -AS
  • Erhm, what exactly is "true development"? You certainly don't need Nintendo's help to write GameBoy games:

    • LCC [free, compact, portable C compiler] has been hacked to compile to GB. It is reasonably bug-free.
    • Several companies (such as Bung [bung.com.hk]) sell dirt-cheap GB programmable cards (Bung even provides an NT device driver in their kit).
    • There are several GB emulators/debugging IDEs.
    • Lots of tools and documentation available (eg., image/tile editors, conversion tools).

    So yes, you can code games for it.

  • the reason they bother is that companies must defend their trademarks, patents, copyrights, etc. or they lose them.

    Even thought the Davinci bites (and believe me it does), if 3com doesn't defend it's property, it will lose the ability to defend from real competiors (read Handspring and Microsoft)
  • That's true - but can I code games for it?

    Not easily (yeah, I know ways exist - but for true development, you gotta pay big bucks to Nintendo). At least for a Palm style device, there exists the possibility of being able to do so cheaply, with free to low-cost compilers being available...

    The point is, I don't just want to play games, I want to develop games for others to play. I still would like to be able to use the handheld to do other things (note taking, addresses, etc)...
  • For that matter, there are lots of games for the Pilot, too, including a SAGA ("Final Fantasy Legend" in the states)-esque role-playing game with user-buildable levels, a RTS space game, and dozens of arcade & board game knockoffs in the making. I mean sure, there's nothing really fancy just yet, but hey, having any games at all is really something.

    And as Palms get better, with more and more memory added on, and maybe even color sooner or later, we'll start seeing more advanced games for it. No biggie. Maybe someone will even come out with a Playstationesque game controller that plugs into the serial port.

    *sigh*, I only wish I'd known before I bought my IIIe that it's not expandable. Oh well, I'll keept it a semester or two and trade it in on the next model. Palms always sell pretty well on Ebay...


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