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Hardware

Ask Slashdot: Affordable, Functional Audio Mixers? 167

Posted by Cliff from the many-machines-one-set-of-tweeters dept.
hfcs asks: "I'm looking for sources for an affordable, 4-6 channel, compact, stereo, line-level audio mixer. In my office I have 4 PCs (Linux, W95, NT, Mac) and CD player, each demanding their own speakers for audio output. Low end pro-sumer stuff (Radio Shack & the like) start at $200 for this, but it's huge. Decent mixers start well above that. A master volume would be nice, but since each device can do it's own output level, so I don't need channel level control. I just want to be able to hook everything up to one nice set of amplified speakers rather than 4 independent mediocre sets without damaging any of the sources. Any suggestions?"
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Affordable, Functional Audio Mixers? More

Affordable, Functional Audio Mixers?

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  • Mixers (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You mention four computers and a CD player. Mixer channels are mono channels, so what you're really looking for is an 8-12 channel mixer (assuming you want stereo). I would take a look at the Samson Mixpad 9 which won't allow you to hook all of that stuff up at the same time but is far better quality than Radio Shack. The Mixpad 12 would let you hook all that stuff up and more. The Mixpad 9 is about $200, the Mixpad 12 might be $275. The Samson mixers I've used have been exceptional values. Don't go for pro-sumer... The bitterness of low quality remains long after the sweetness of low price. A good dealer is Sweetwater Sound, http://www.sweetwater.com.

  • Re:Build one (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    One thing to watch out is your speakers, though. If you're using amplified speakers, building your own mixer is easy. If your speakers aren't amplified, though, you will probably want to buy a cheep commercial (read: surplus) amplifier. Amplifiers aren't too easy to build yourself if you want to get decent volume and little noise.

    If you're looking for parts, check out company like National Semiconductors. They have a wide variety of parts to pick from. http://www.national.com

    Good luck

    m

  • Re:Build one (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    For building something like this, I suggest the parts company Newark/Farnell. I've done a lot of business with these folks and they're great....you can check their site out at http://www.newark.com Good luck to you.....if all you're looking to do is switch between sources and go straight to the powered speakers, a few RCAs, and a multichannel knob would work well, just use some shielded wire....
  • Have you released the mixes on mp3?
  • We used a 1604-VLZ when I was working for my high school's TV station--man, that thing was smoooth. Didn't get to be sound guy that much, but it took every single crappy output we gave it and begged for more...
    Once, the teacher who ran the lab had most of the equipment in his car; out of a DV handycam, Panasonic video mixer, and one of the studio quality cameras--the Mackie 1604-VLZ was the only thing stolen. ;)
    (We did get it back--the kid that stole it simply put it in the backseat of his car. Mr. Guard just made a visual sweep of the parking lot.)

  • Dude (Score:1)

    by J4 ( 449 )
    The guy was saying $200 was more than he wanted to spend. If you could get a mackie for like $50 then maybe that might be what he was looking for.
  • Dude you need a Neve or maybe an SSL,
    You can pick up a used Neve in good condition
    for about $50k US
    Of course if you don't care
    about the sound quality and want lotsa
    bells and whistles go for the SSL

    In case you can't tell, this is sarcasm

  • Two words (Score:1)

    by J4 ( 449 )
    Unity Gain
  • Allow me to add another endorsement of the Mackie boards. I've used several of them and if you're the type that's on a budget, you won't get any better. Best of all, they're built to last.

    As for something $200 bucks or less? Maybe a used board, but I havn't seen any new ones that would be up to the job.
  • Grab a book on basic audio design...should be possible to hackup a simple(but high quality) mixer with a couple of $ worth of components, a bit of stripboard and an hour or two of time.

    However when I needed such a thing I bought one.. from Tandy(Radio Shack for my American readers) for £50($75) which has 3 mic channels + 2 line, VU meters, etc. That was years ago so they're probably much much cheaper now.
  • I agree. Building a quality mixer for recording use, etc is a tough excercise.

    I think all the guy wants is somethig to mix together 6 line inputs...technically this is a mixer but only just ;)
  • Behringer makes some cheap and good mixers. I am going to buy a Behringer 1602, which handles 8 channels stereo, which costs about $ 250 here in the Netherlands. For your applications a simpler one (and thus cheaper one) would be sufficient.

  • Now a question - why is it that everybody's been recommending mixers? What's the advantage of a mixer over a setup like mine (a component-based stereo system with some AUX inputs for the computer).

    the main features is being able to play multiple audio sources at once and mix them (hence the name 'mixer').... Your stereo only lets you select inputs, not blend them.
  • Typically only 2 channels, tho
  • I faced a similar but lesser problem: I had two computers and one set of Sambridge Soundworks speakers which I wanted them to share. People on Usenet told me to just us a Y-splitter to hook both computers to the speakers simultaneously, but the little I remember of EE in college taught me never to connect two outs or you'll blow them!

    The solution I found was a $20 three-source switchbox from Radio Shack, three Y adapter cables (mini stereo plug to R/L phono plugs) for like $2.50 each, and a fem/fem mini stereo gender changer. I hooked the two computers into the switchbox, then connected the switchbox to the wire-with-volume-dial that came with the Cambridge Soundworks amp.

    It works great! I can only listen to one computer at a time, but how often do I really need to listen to both of them?

  • Re:DIY (Score:1)

    by jfm3 ( 2260 )

    I'm no expert, but every synth-DIYer I've ever talked with has said "if you're considering DIY building a mixer, don't."

    That being said, there are some affordable DIY kit options from PAiA [paia.com]. I haven't tried these, but everything else I've built that's PAiA is excellent.

    Just get the damn Mackie :)

  • I've been using a Midiman Multimixer 6 for the past few years to mix my synths, CD and PC. It really rocks, is very small (15x8cm/6x3in), exceptionally robust (metal casing), the sound quality is second to none, and the beasties are dirt cheap.

    www.midiman.com/Html/products/mixer s.htm [midiman.com]

    The Multimixer 6 has 6 mono channels, with pan/gain on each one you can assign stereo and balance as you require. The Multimixer 10 has an added 2 stereo channels (also with pan/gain). Both units feature seperate left/right master gain controls.

    Mixer power is taken from a 9v adaptor.

    To further the flexibility of my system the Midiman is chained to a hi-fi amp.

    I have no connection with Midiman other than as a satisfied customer.

    --

  • The added noise from each computer would make the last computer sound like poo poo. Also it would be like networking with co-ax except not as bad, if one machine is down it takes out all of thoughs behind it.
  • I have been doing a lot of mixing and pre/post-production on computers the last few years. Check out Water [mp3.com] on mp3.com [mp3.com] , if like what you hear give us some feed back we could use it. Check out Musicians Friend [musiciansfriend.com] and look at the Berringer line of mixers, a lot cheaper than the nice Mackie brand, but just as good if not better.
  • The Alesis 12R is a nice little rackmountable 12 channel mixer with 1/4" and xlr inputs on 8 channels + 2 stereo inputs. Inserts on 8 channels let you go out to a multitrack recorder (whoo hoo!) if you so desire.

    The whole thing's about the size of component tape deck. Phantom power on all mic inputs, too. Fair deal at $350, brand-spankin' new. Check your local muzak mart.
  • I will add my voice to the suggestions above, and say that YES, Mackies are a happy thing, as well as some of the Yamahas for what you are looking for. If you want to know where to go, besides places like e-Bay, and instument/music stores, look for high end consumer audio/video equipment stores.

    I don't know what coast you are on, but if west coast, i'm talking like Chealsea audio,(two plus steps above Magnolia Hi-Fi) they do both quality audio and video, and although you won't see the boards on display the same as the amps and tv's, they prolly know/have access to the types of board you are interested in. And can give you real world help on what else you might need/want to add extra value for your buck in.
  • I cascade a DVD MPEG decoder board and two AWE64Gold cards in this way, and this permanent mix works just fine, without noise problems. Note though that it's not as flexible as wiring each output separately into its own mixer input. If you can afford it, buy an external musician's mixer (remembering that you need two channels for each sound card), but you'll really find it a pain not to have the online input-gain/output-volume controls that we take for granted on sound cards.
  • I can vouch for this being quite a nice choice. The audio quality is excellent, being quieter than almost any sound card you could possibly find (noise floor around -100dB) and being quite versatile.
    It ha an excellent frequencey response as well if you're into recording bat chatter. :-)
    I have myt CD player plugged into it as well as my PC right now, and I am feeding out to a set of speakers as my headphones.
    I use it mainly for the synth set-up though where it does fine.
    Yes, for serious mixing you'll need somethign like a proper deal but then again this isn't what the whole Ask Slashdot question was about.
  • To answer your question as I believe this is why I would be requesting Mixer suggestions were I in the original poster's situation, is that typically I'd only want to listen to 1 thing at a time, say the CD-Player for instance, but my computers are all set up to give me audio feed-back, say when there is an alarm or error message, or maybe I want to mix Quake ][ (assuming the impossible situation that I would ever be interested in playing a game like that :), but wanted my own CD audio track? Thus I would want the Sound Effects from the game mixed with my CD and the frequent system errors from my NT box, my talking Web browser under BeOS and for my linux box -- um, well I guess I can forget about the Linux box for now, but you get the picture.
    Anyway hope that makes things more clear. Take care.

    Be Seeing You,

    Jeffrey.
  • If you're even vaguely adept at electronics, or have a friend who is, you can build your own simple passive mixer to take care of this. Take a 10k resistor from the output of each computer to a common point; connect this common point to one end of a 10k variable resistor; connect the grounds of all the inputs and the output to the other end of the variable resistor; connect the output to the wiper of the variable resistor. This works fine in most situations.

    "I want to use software that doesn't suck." - ESR
    "All software that isn't free sucks." - RMS

  • really if you are looking for stereo stuff you're not going to find much under $200. If you don't mind splitting your stereo channels into two mono channels check out the Spirit Folio mixer which has four mono channels and two stereo for aroudn $250 MSRP. I have a home studio with samplers, synths etc. hooked up to my 'puter and I use a Mackie MS1202-VLZ 12 channel mixer. For $399 this is the best deal you will ever find. It's the most useful piece of audio equipment I have ever purchased. Very flexible. It has four mono channels and four stereo channels. Love it!
  • Stereo inputs and multi stereo outs....

    A Numark DM1200 should do the job....$199.95 at www.pssl.com

    Read the stats and choose for yerself...
  • I will hand it to you guys, though...I haven't seen one person suggest that this guy go out and construct a mixer based on linux...
    Hey! Now that you mention it... (duck)
  • The 1202 (I have the VLZ) is easily the best $350 (I bought it new) I ever spent on any piece of electronics. It's a total swiss army knife of the audio world. Portable, powerful, 1001 uses. If you can afford one, get one. You'll have it forever, and you'll never run out of uses for it.

    I even spilled a full glass of water into mine while it was on. Let it dry out for a couple days and still works like a champ. The fact that I can watch tv, play guitar and hear my computer's output at the same time through my headphones makes it an invaluable tool. Not to meantion all the other stuff I use it for.

    -Rich
  • There are three companies that make good, cheap line level mixers for bargain-basement recording and Sound reinforcement. There are two basic types of mixers in this arena, tabletop mixers and rack mounted mixers. Either are quite small. Here's a list of mixers from most vendors that will (hopefully) solve your dillema:

    • Midiman Micro Mixer ($99-299) 6 to 18ch.
    • Spirit PowerPad ($399)
    • Rolls RM65 MixMax ($320)
    Even though the Spirit PowerPad is $400 list, it includes a 30 watt power amplifier, so you can hook your speakers right into that. Another place to check out is Used Gear By Mail [ugbm.com], they ship anyhwere, and have some really good used gear VERY cheap. Hopefully this gave some more answers. If there's still not something out there perfectly suited to this application, I'm sure there are people here that can design a small 6-12ch line mixer in their sleep. :-)

    If it comes from man, it will fail.
    If it comes from god, It will succeed.

  • Well, there's a store in my area which sells a lot of tech-junk (from old stereo equipment to cameras to used PCs)... you might want to check for similar places in your area. I've seen 6 channel mixing boards in pawn shops for as little as US$75... that would probably suit your needs. Or, if you didn't need to listen to all of your boxen at once, you could hook each box to a different line in on an old stereo tuner; say Linux to Aux 1, PC to AUx 2, Mac to Casette.. you get the idea. This wouldn't give you line-mixing capabilities, but it would at least give a convenient option for selecting which box you're listening to... not to mention the fact that you could control all of the outputs with a single remote.
  • Probably your cheapest way out would be to find a
    single space rackmount stereo line mixer. I bet Fuhrman or Sampson have them, they are generally for keyboardists.

    If you daisy chained all your cards into each other as suggested your noise level would be insane as the gain staging with most of the soundcards out today is horrible.

    A great source for used pro-sound equipment is Daddy's Junky Music Store a.k.a. Used Gear By Mail, their service is outstanding and they will make sure that you are satisfied with any purchase. I think the URL is http://www.ugbm.com
  • i must have built half my studio from stuff i bought off of www.auctionsoup.com [auctionsoup.com]

    there must be thousands of old mixers sitting in peoples closets gathering dust. every now and then they get sold online. this is the best place i've found to buy /sell old gear. cheap.

    also check out the used gear price list [midiwall.com]to find out if your getting a good price.

    mischa
  • the product you are lloking for is called layla.
    A uk company makes them I think. 8 stereo in/outs
    plus a pair of spdif connectors.

    All the connectors are in a 1U rackmounted box
    with a cable back to sound card.
  • What I'd like to find is a sound card with 4+ line-level inputs. Then just use it as the mixer (with software).

    It would help me build a complete audio system with my linux box as the control center.

    Does anyone know of such a thing???
  • Even though Vestax had at one time a bad motto "rhymes with bestax" (which was pointless) they do make some really nice dj equipment. Their tables are good as well, at least the direct drive ones are.

    then again, you can only go wrong with Radioshack and gemini (at least for turntables +/- 2% is lousy)
  • Simple. The original poster seemed to want to be able to hear several different sources simultaneously through the same speakers. That's precisely what I want to do, too. For instance, I'd like to be able to run my VCR's sound output, output for my PC and my Mac, all through the same speakers OR to a set of headphones. Ideally, I could control both master volume and volume for all the input channels. An input switcher is not sufficient for my purposes. I _think_ the original poster is looking for the same thing, but I could be wrong.

    I'm fascinated by the idea of building my own (I just got my first soldering iron...LOOK OUT!). Does anybody have any tasty links or book recommendations that would give me some idea as to how to build such a thing with minimal cross-talk and no damage to the speakers?
  • YAMU (Yet Another Mackie User) here. I'll add my support for this mixer. It's bloody brilliant. Not only is it nearly infinitely reconfigurable, but the sound of the thing is great.

    Somewhat off topic, but thanks to this thread and a few others, the question I have is, "how many of us slashdotters do home recording and what kinda music? what kinda gear?"

    I mostly do guitar oriented stuff, but I play (poorly) various instruments. Currently I'm digging into the whole MIDI mess and making cakewalk and my Alesis QS8 play nice and do crazy things.

    Sorry, no MP3's yet, but I'm planning on getting a few up on the web in a few weeks when the current project is "done".

    jetpack

  • The obvious question (maybe I should have added this to my previous post): Do you have any of your tunes anywhere I can get at them and have a listen?

    I use cakewalk as my sequencer, and largely for the same reasons you use a sequencer: my drumming and keyboarding are of dubious quality and s/w editing fixes that problem.

    As for programming, I pretty much leave it at work. On the other hand, I'm starting to seriously consider writing a class lib for reading and writing MIDI files. Dunno if that is a usefull thing, but mostly it'll force me to learn alot more about the nitty-gritty of MIDI.

    BTW, what sorta s/w are you writing these days?

    jetpack

  • What you say is only true if you are using your soundcard to make all the noise. However, I'm driving a synth/keyboard (QS8) and therefore any sequencer I use needs to have MIDI support. Seems to me that at least one of the trackers (fastracker?) incorperated MIDI, but it's been years since I've played with trackers.

    As for flexibility, I'd say that is only try if you are limiting yourself to general midi. If you've got a dedicated synth to drive you can make all the crazy sounds you want. Of course, it's rather more expensive than just using your soundcard :)

    Man, are we *ever* off topic! Woohoo!

    jetpack

  • In case you're looking, the name is Behringer, and the URL is "http://www.behringer.de/eng/".
    But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
  • I wasn't able to read the replies, so I don't know if I'm being redundant.

    I purchased a little 3 channel mixer from Radio Shack for like $40 or so. They call it a video mixer or something, because its also got a video input/output with a video signal booster I use for my playstation. Anyway, its got 2 stereo (dual) RCA jacks, and a 1/8" mic jack that you can use without using the video stuff, and its fairly small. I'm really interested in finding anything better, if I can ever read the other posts...
  • What I did with mine is I run my tv card sound, linux box sound, and Playstation sound into the little RadioShack 'Video dubber' thats really a $40 or $50 mixer, and run the output of that into the line in on my sblive - then I can process all the audio coming in with the sblive.

    Its actually pretty damned sweet.. I can listen to cds on the linux box, and still hear if I get mail on my other machine, etc. I keep all my machines on 24/7 so I don't have to worry about my sblive being powered down..
  • Just get a Mackie

    The 1202 VLZ is quite cool:
    check it out there:
    http://www.mackie.com/Products/VLZPRO/1202VLZPro .asp
    It may be a bit higher than 200$ (300 to 350$ in fact)
    but if you have good quality speakers you won't want
    to waste them with a crappy mixer...

    Besides, if you are into music making the Mackie has real
    good mic preamps and some wicked wiring options that can
    be really useful.
    If you don't want to blow your budget, take a look at Soundcraft
    too, they make quite good budget mixers.
  • Check out this page [www.hut.fi] for some DIY mixer projects, if you want to go that route.
  • If the signal you're dealing with is preamp-level (i.e. the line output to a set of powered speakers), then all you need to do is buy "Y" cords to connect all the outputs to the single input. With any luck, the levels will all be close enough that you can adjust them using the software volume controls on each system.

    Personally, I just patched 'em all into my stereo receiver, and I switch inputs as needed (Basically, I have 2 PC patched into the two tape I/O loops, and use them as if they were cassette decks; then another PC just goes to a spare input). Of course, I only get to hear The Microsoft Sound from one PC at a time, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
  • A lesson from Shocks For Jocks:

    Proper preamp outs should have a high output impedance, and they feed inputs that have very low impedance, and there shouldn't be any interference problem. Think about it; the output from Soundcard A sees high impedance from the Soundcard B and low impedance on the stereo input; thus (nearly) all the power goes to the input.

    With a power amp, you have low output impedance (.1 ohm) and higher speaker impedance. In that case, yeah, if you connect multiple power amps to a single speaker each amp's output will hit the other amp, and it will smoke. But as long as the output isn't capable of driving an unpowered speaker, it's probably a high impedance preamp out, and safe to "Y". Safe to test, anyway.

  • I've found that you can get great deals for used mixers on eBay. I'm certain you can find what you're looking for for well under $200 if you're patient.

  • With all the kudos for Mackie, where is the URL? I want to see one of these babies if I can. Thanks!

  • Radio Shack stuff is horribly noisy.

    Midiman's Multi-mixer 6 ($100) will do what you want but you'll have to split your 3 stereo inputs into 6 monos and then pan hard left/right, etc. They have a 10 channel with two stereo inputs for $120.

    www.midiman.com

    I seem to remember a tiny little mixer that just used trim pots for gain controls, but I can't remember who made it.
  • I do computer-based recording with Cakewalk Pro Audio and Alesis QSR. I sequence drums and keyboards and do live bass, guitar, and vocals. Haven't been too active lately, though.

    I'm waiting for driver support and a "killer app" for BeOS to come out so I can move out of the land of blue screens...
  • Count me among the 1202-VLZ owners. Perfect for the amateur recording/mixing I do. I hook up my two computers, MiniDisc deck, CD player, Bass amp, and a few mikes, all at the same time. Mackie kicks.
  • Mackie's are the sweetest mixer you can buy for the price. Mutha's are built like brick houses to (except they don't use bricks). I ues them for my hard drive recording studio!
    I highly recommend!


  • My Turtle Beach Montego has 3 internal inputs (CD, modem, DVD/Aux) and two external inputs (mic, line in). Essentially you have 4 line ins and a mic in.

    Plus SPDIF if you need it.
  • I always used to use a Shure Mic/Line mixer, but they are true pro audio gear, read not cheap. You COULD always roll your own, it's not that hard. Use a quad op amp, set it up unity gain, inverting (To isolate the input), tie the outputs together, feed to one more stage, inverting, and you get line level out

    Charlie
    (Radio shack has their "Op Amp Cookbook" for this)
  • Check out the GadgetLabs Wave/4.

    www.gadgetlabs.com [gadgetlabs.com]

  • there's a man named Craig Anderton who publishes a book that is more or less exactly what you're looking for. it's called "Electronics Project for Musicians" and you can probably get it from Amazon or i know you can get it from Paia.

    speaking of Paia, i believe that they sell a mixer kit for like $30 or something.

    Electronic Projects for Musicians [paia.com] by Craig Anderton [mailto]

    also, just check out Paia [paia.com] for all your musical needs, because they really have the best kits out there and you can always build cheaper and better than you can buy.
  • I use a Mackie mixer for any serious pro audio work I do, you can't go wrong there, but for this kind of use you don't need to pay for *that* kind of quality.

    For mixing and audio editing at the computer, I have a Behringer MX802A Eurodesk that I bought from musician's friend [musiciansfriend.com] for about $200. The quality of its components are comparable to Mackie's, but the Mackie equivalent is closer to $500.

  • Y's can cause nasty interference when the signal starts travelling thru the y's and back to the other sound cards... the earlier suggestion about patching the sound cards in series using the line in is probably a better idea


    Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
  • Good idea... I hadn't thought of that. Personally I am using a crappy hundred buck radio shack mixer to accomplish the same goal and it has seemed to be fine for me.



    Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
  • Right, if you are want to have more than one source playing at a time. I understood the poster to want to listen to only one source.
  • Well, if you wanted to do it cheap, just use a bunch of 'Y' cables. You shouldn't get that much of an impedance mismatch with Y's, as long as you are careful with the output controls from each computer. Or you could go to a local music store (Doesn't every city have a Guitar Center?) and see what cheap mixers they have. Hmm you could even use an old stereo amp if it has enough inputs. If you wanted decent audio (an old stereo *might* be decent) get a Mackie mixer they're cheap (~$200) and good for the price, don't waste your money on R$ stuff.
  • MX602a [behringer.de] ~$100

    MX802a [behringer.de] ~$210

    at

    Musician's Friend. [musicianfriend.com]
    (Just bought an MX802A myself.)
  • In your car you can connect only one of the wires from the stereo to your speaker and ground the other wire to the car. Your car is alway negative so the juice can't go the other way. It doesn't alternate back and forth, just current up and down. High current pushes the cone away from the magnet. Alternating this is what makes the speaker cone go in and out.
  • I dj regulary and I like my radio shack mixer. It is reliable and when it breaks I can just go out and get a new one..3 years of heavy use and nothing has broken yet (already gone through 2 amps and a speaker). My cheap solution is to go to radio shack and get the 4 line selecter. It allows you to push a button to select the source. I use one for my home sound system. Its nice cause it's only $15.
  • have been Macs running editing software and using very high end sound cards...


    just my (mostly worhtless) 2 cents


    Dan "ayeeeeeeeee" Turk
  • woops, different kind of audio mixing! heh :\
  • Well, way-back-in-the-day I played baritone sax, tenor, sax, and alto sax, along with drums in band...this was 6-8th grades(8-6 years ago). I then rediscovered my musical ways in 11th grade when I took a class in my high school's multi-million dollar audio/video lab. (this isn't your common high school: http://www.cat.pinellas.k12.fl.us) I learned that I can mix stuff pretty well, I made about 5 quality mixes and did sound effects on several films...some of the mixes won awards and my friends actually requested them for personal use, they actually wanted a SCHOOL PROJECT to listen to outside of school...it was strange! As to what I mixed...I made a Prodigy Mix, a Kraftwerk Mix, a pop/hip-hop/rap megamix, and a 30 minute "whatever fits next" mix that consisted of everything I could get my hands on. I love audio, can't wait till I get money to buy a mac for some mad mixing fun. Macs are the only way to go for that kinda thing, by the way...

    Well, you asked, and you got at least one answer :)
    I hope others reply, it's an interesting thing.

    Dan
  • I have one in mp3 format, the others are on a tape(bleh! TAPE!). I'd hand them out except for one minor thing: I don't hold the copyrights on the music that the mixes are made of. You see, I made them as part of a new organization that was protected and could use anything it wanted as long as it wasnt for profit, and they didnt claim to own it(or something like this) Does anyone know if I'm allowed to distribute strung-together 30 second clips of songs that are mixed together?

    Dan "Someone E-mail Me To Let Me Know" Turk
  • Best buy has a 5-channel for right around $100. They have a 2-channel for less. Much better than Radio Shack's awful cheap 4-channel, although it's not a Mackie or anything. Has kept this casual user very happy. Look over by the microphones/kareoke machines.
  • This [midiman.com] little guy if perfect for putting on your desk with your computer.
    It has 1/4" inputs and Radio Shack has all the adapters you need. $99 is worth it.
  • Someone suggested this earlier, but it has one problem: if you don't have all of your computers & peripherals on all of the time, then the daisy-chaining will fail, since the mixers on each of the sound cards are only active if they're powered up. I suppose if all of the systems are going to be on all of the time, then this would work okay.

  • What you want is a pair of passive mixers, one for each channel of the stereo signal.

    Given that the output impedence of each of the sources is (nominally) equal to the input impedence of the speakers and that you want equal contributions from each of the sources and don't NEED a master attenuator (or want unnecessary attenuation) either, that reduces to:

    Tie the grounds together. Wire up a set of five equal resistors, one from the right-channel hot of each of the sources and one from the right-channel hot of the sink. Tie the other end of the five resistors together. Repeat for the left channel.

    Each source and the sink provide a characteristic impeedence "C", and want to see it as well. With resistors of value "R" the impedence they see is:

    R + (R+C)/4

    Setting that equal to C and solving for R we get:

    R = (3/5)*C

    For 8 ohms nominal impedence R comes out to 4.8 ohms.

    So go out and buy ten 5% resistors as close to 4.8 ohms as you can find. Half-watt should do. So should quarter-watt if you can't find half-watt.

    This should still work reasonably well even if some of the output signals are really at a higher impedence and intended for headphones. If some of your sources end up driving your speakers wildly less than others, that may be what happened. In this unlikely instance there are tweaks to compensate, but they'll depend on the actual config you've got and will require a little debugging.

  • jesus. the guy just wants to run some 'puters, not a CLUB!!
  • Its been about 6 months ssince i last used one, but IIRC the sybex console switches have audio connectors.

    don't have a url or an estimated price, but i think they're pretty darn expensive.

    you have one part by your boxes, and then cables running out to your consoles, and you can even daisy chain them for support of more boxes

    was pretty cool

    (wow check out the lack of grammer on that)
  • Y-Jacks are a good cheap solution.
    You see, this is because electricity works like water.
    The signal from two sources will flow into one source. The signal from that one source, if combined with another will flow into another clean, refreshing source.
    The strength to using a Y-Jack to combine signal, instead of split signal is....like water, when you combine signal, you have more. When you split signal, you have less.
    More is good.
  • get four cables with male/male 1/4 inch connectors.
    plug the mac/pc into one y-jack.
    plug the linux/nt into another y-jack.
    then plug each of those into another y-jack.
    then, get another female/female 1/4 inch connector/cable.
    plug the y-jack that has two y-jacks connected to the pc/linux/nt/mac into it.
    plug the 1/4 cable from the powered speakers into the other end.
    ditch the cd as most computer's already have them.
    You've got yourself a cheap-professional system now.
    It's also expandable.
    You could always add other y-jacks to the already connected y-jacks to have more and more connections made available.
    I'm not sure, but by my calculations, you could probably have several million audio appliances plugged-in before you notice any degradation of quality.
  • Could you put some diodes on the source wires to make sure the signal only goes one way, or would that reduce the sound quality?
  • EuroRack 1602
    Top Quality, I love mine.
    Best part, Everything is on the top.
  • You should take a good look at dj mixers:
    They offer reference quality sound, compact size, and are usually fairly cheap ($75-250 ballpark).
    try www.musiciansfriend.com
  • I use a Gemini PMX-3501. It has 4 stereo channels, some of which can be reassigned to other imputs on the fly. I think its about 75-80 dB S/N, which isnt near that of my PCI soundcards, but you wont hear static either. Works well, my only complaint is it doesn't do quad channel sound, like SB Live! or Diamond's MX 300.

    Cost is less than $250 new, Rack mountable too. It has 3 separately adjustable output pairs, so you can hook up 4 or more speakers if you like...instead of 2. You can also preview one source while driving another, like I output the channel hooked to my playstaion to the speakers while i listen to my MP3's on the headphone out.

    Mine is hooked up to 3 car amps to 5 speakers.

    http://www.geminidj.com/docs/product_display_5.a sp?ProdID=39

    Many of the other mixers will also fit what you need, posibly better and less expensive.

    http://www.geminidj.com/docs/gemini_cat.asp?CatI D=15

    If you need higher S/N rations, get another brand, Gemini's are the most affordable though, and comes with a decent guarantee.
  • Finally, someone mentions Gemini. I use a PS-626 for a similar purpose, and it works great. I've found that I can listen to one source through headphones while piping another through to the speakers -- trust me it's a nice feature if you live with anyone besides yourself. It's clean and quiet for the money. I'd reccomend a platinum series mixer for the job. You can get a 4 or 5 channel for what you're looking to spend.
  • I'm not sure how well this would work, either, but my gut tells me the one furthest out would have the worst sound quality, seeing how it would be preprocessed three more times before it reached the speakers, and that's assuming you're going from line-out to line-in...from stereo out to line would make your audio sound like dung...
  • Thank god! Finally, a fellow geek with a small bit of common sense. I was getting ready to say the same damn thing...from I got from the article he's doing for convenience, not to record the stones' next album. An input selector from the Shack or any other electronics store will do fine...

    I will hand it to you guys, though...I haven't seen one person suggest that this guy go out and construct a mixer based on linux...
  • PSSL has more mixers than you can shake a stick at:

    [pssl.com]
    http://www.pssl.com/


    Their dead tree catalog is easier to read than their web site. I'd recommend getting them to send you a copy if you're not in a mad hurry to get a mixer.


    Some mixers have multiple outputs, so you could send one set to your stereo and another back into your computer for feedback loops or easy sampling from external sources.

    If you've got a rack you might want to consider a rackmount mixer just because it would look cool.
  • PSSL has more mixers than you can shake a stick at: http://www.pssl.com/ [pssl.com] Their dead tree catalog is easier to read than their web site. I'd recommend getting them to send you a copy if you're not in a mad hurry to get a mixer. Some mixers have multiple outputs, so you could send one set to your stereo and another back into your computer for feedback loops or easy sampling from external sources. If you've got a rack you might want to consider a rackmount mixer just because it would look cool.
  • I do all sorts of sequencing stuff...I'd suggest taking a look at some of the various trackers (MOD/S3M/IT/XM/etc)...they're a lot more flexible than MIDI is. Of course, an Amiga is the best place to do this type of stuff, but some of the PC-based trackers have gotten quite good as well. I've done some MIDI work, but I find it to be too limiting...

  • Mackie (Score:2)

    by jfm3 ( 2260 )

    You won't get decent under $200. You'll be really unhappy with any mixer you buy at Rat Shock.

    You will get a Mackie 1202 ("classic", not "VLZ" or "VLZ Pro") on eBay for around $200.

    You can have my 1202 when you pry it from my cold dead fingers. They solve one million problems. I'm using one right now to run 3 sound cards, 3 synths, 3 effects boxen (side chained), 4 cdrom drive audio outputs, and a phone!

    I think MIDIMAN makes tiny analogue mixers... but I'd still suggest the Mackie. A Mackie will last you for the rest of your life in both maintainability (bulit like a tank) and usefulness.

    Good luck!


  • You might want to look at Daddy's Junky Music [daddys.com]. They sell used equipment, typically have lots of good stuff, too - and are well known. They have a store here where I live, and can pull in stuff from all over the country from their other stores. If your town doesn't have a store, you can also do the mail-order thing through the link on their page, or Used Gear by Mail [ugbm.com].

  • OK, then do it digitally. Feed the audio to machines which digitize the sound. Then just select which sound server you want to play.
  • I had the exact same problem. I bought a 10-channel Midiman mixer from my local MARS store for $100. It's about the size of a VHS tape, and it works very well.

    Configuration:

    • Channels 1 & 2 use 1/4" phono jacks (selectable MIC/line level)
    • Channels 3, 4, 5, 6 use RCA jacks
    • Channels 7+8 and 9+10 are stereo pairs with 1/8" phono jacks (i.e. what you have on your soundcard.) These channel pairs do not have pan or gain controls. They are designed to hook up to sound cards, where the PC controls pan/gain.
    • Channels 1-6 have pan (left/right) and gain controls.
    • There are master left/right gain controls.
    • Outputs: Two 1/8" stereo jacks & Two RCA jacks
    • LEDs: Left/right signal, Left/right clipping

    Midiman has a web site [midiman.net] but I haven't checked it out yet.

    Hope this helps,
    Jeff

  • Agreed, a Mackie might be more than what he needs or can afford. Mostly, I was suggesting that a music store was a better place to look. I'm pretty sure he will find a small, affordable line mixer from Roland, Midiman, or someone else there.

    One thing I've noticed on this thread is that Mackie advocates make Mac/Linux/BSD advocates look downright PASSIVE. ;) Sorry for my rabid pro-Mackie stance.
  • Since more and more musicians are doing recording at home these days, high-quality compact mixers have become more affordable. Mackie, Yamaha, and Behringer(sp?) are all making good, small mixers that beat the pants off anything you'll find at Radio Shack (just my opinion, there).

    12-channel (and smaller) mixers are not that expensive -- should be only a few hundred bucks. The footprint of them is relatively small and some can be mounted in a 19" rack. There are also rack-mountable line mixers which are basically a bunch of inputs with volume controls -- these are small and pretty cheap.

    Most of these use standard 1/4" unbalanced analog inputs but have a few additional RCA jacks for CD and tape input. You can buy RCA-to-1/4" converters at Radio Shack that work just fine.

    Guitar Center sells tons of these (though I try to avoid GC due to an ugly customer service incident last year :) ). If you have a Mars in your neighborhood, they have a good recording equipment department.

    Personal recommendation? I've been using a Mackie 12-channel (1202, I think) for several years now. I had to have the pots cleaned once but, other than that, it's been great. It's built like a tank.
  • http://www.mackie.com [mackie.com]
    Heh, didn't even need google [google.com] to find it.
  • Instrumental -- mostly guitar. I usually layer and sequence any keyboard stuff to make it sound less pathetic. Same for drums.

    I pretty much record whatever I'm in the mood for, so I've got soft nylon-string pieces and aggressive slash-and-burn stuff on my hard drive and DATs. I pretty much give away CDs to anyone who's interested -- I'm happy just to have someone say, "I like it."

    No recording lately, though. I miss it, but writing software has been taking up ALL of my time.

    Agreed, this might be a good thread or slashdot poll in the future.
  • Wow! I had just submitted my post singing the virtues of Mackies and found yours right there with it. This guy's gonna think we're being paid off by Mackie. :)

  • stereo tuners (Score:3)

    by Trepidity ( 597 ) <[delirium-slashdot] [at] [hackish.org]> on Friday August 06, 1999 @11:19AM (#1761293)
    I just run all my stuff into my stereo system's tuner (you know, the thing that does radio reception). Most of the good ones will have RCA jacks on the back to plug in stereo components, and you can get 1/4" to RCA converters at radio shack. I have my TV, CD player, tape deck, radio, turntable, and computer all going through the same set of speakers. It's some Sony thing, around $400, not sure of the model number.

    Now a question - why is it that everybody's been recommending mixers? What's the advantage of a mixer over a setup like mine (a component-based stereo system with some AUX inputs for the computer).

  • Don't need a mixer (Score:3)

    by Local Loop ( 55555 ) on Friday August 06, 1999 @06:45AM (#1761294)
    I don't think you need a mixer unless you want
    to *combine* one or more sources. Just get
    an input selector... Or build one with $15
    in parts from radio shack.

    If you want to be super geeky, you can get
    a patch bay for $80 or so.

    Call Full Compass (800 356 5844) and explain
    what you want. They have the best prices and
    knowledgeable sales people.

    -Loopy

  • Build one (Score:3)

    by Bastard Child ( 66982 ) on Friday August 06, 1999 @06:33AM (#1761295)
    An audio mixer is one of the simplest circuits you can build.

    With a bunch of RCA or 1/8 audio jacks, a blank copper clad perfboard, and a few resistors you could do this. Add a pot, or even a small audio op-amp for level control. Could be built for less than $20. Make it $40, and you could put it in a small case.

    Don't go to Radio Shack for parts, they're insanely expensive.

  • Build one (Score:4)

    by Bigman ( 12384 ) on Friday August 06, 1999 @07:06AM (#1761296) Homepage Journal
    Dont geeks do electronics these days????
    Dont splice the wires together because you'll blow up the soundcards.. just use resistors:

    pc1 --------/\/\/\/---\
    pc2 --------/\/\/\/---*----/\/\/\---- out to spkr
    pc3 --------\/\/\/\---/

    This scheme should work for as many pcs as you like - the resistors should all be 100 - 1000 ohms. You'll need 2 of these (left and right channels). At a pinch you could use one of those screw-connector blocks to connect the wires to the resistors and wrap the lot in insulation tape to protect it - no soldering burns!!

    B^)

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