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Hardware

uCsimm News 131

Posted by justin++ from the now-taking-preorders dept.
The uClinux guys have announced that they are finished testing the uCsimm and are now taking pre-orders. For US$175, you get a SIMM-sized unit with a 16MHz Dragonball processor (the very one used in the Palm Pilots), 2MB of Flash, 8MB of RAM, and integrated 10baseT. Since it can apparently drive a QVGA LCD, I guess it might be good for my fridge? :) uClinux is Linux without an MMU and more info can be found at the uClinux.org site.
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uCsimm News

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  • Very nice (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They just keep on getting smaller and smaller. I was just thinking that the cell phone my 10 month old son is drooling on didn't exist when I was 10 months old. Makes me wonder what's gonna happen 26 years from now :-)

    -Chuck

    Sorry, too lazy to log in...

    ten.knilrevlis@wkcuhc

  • Re:A question... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    A MMU is like a hardware-implemented memory managemer. It acts as a physical firewall, of sorts, between the memory and the CPU, and triggers an interrupt if the CPU tries to access protected or non-existant memory.

    Assuming bug-free (yeah right) code is written, one can get by without the MMU.

    When one has a server, or even just a simple machine that lots of code is being hacked on, memory protection is essential, for just the reasons you described above. Runaway stack being the most destructive (ie, all memory overwritten!) However, if you've got a gas-pump controller or a grocery-store checkout computer, the end user is going to do no coding, and the operating system and/or application code are assumed to be bug free (hopefully through extensive testing). So there should (theoretically) be no problem by going MMU-less.
  • -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1888809 Aug 2 1995 linux-1.2.13.tar.bz2
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6099082 Jun 14 05:15 linux-2.0.37.tar.bz2
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11235732 May 13 23:54 linux-2.2.9.tar.bz2

    First of all, you shouldn't do this comparison with compressed files.

    And even then the file size does not tell the full story. You have to consider:

    • How many architectures does 1.2.13 support vs. 2.2.9
    • How many device drivers are present in 1.2.13 vs. 2.2.9. You can't really count device drivers as bloat, since all but a very small number are optional or modular.

    The only fair comparison is between the sizes of the most minimal kernel you can build. And while 2.2.9 while be larger here than 1.2.13, it's not 500% larger - more like 30%.

  • -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1888809 Aug 2 1995 linux-1.2.13.tar.bz2
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6099082 Jun 14 05:15 linux-2.0.37.tar.bz2
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11235732 May 13 23:54 linux-2.2.9.tar.bz2


    That's a 500% increase, in less than three years. NT in the same period has roughly doubled in size.

  • There might be one in there. If you find it, blow real hard, you might be able to get free music over a telephone.

    heh heh.

  • I agree that for some things, its overkill and that the dt102 you refer to might be better suited, aside from the fact that it doesn't have plug-and-go Ethernet capabilities.

    To me, the built-in ethernet is the best thing about these uCSimms... second being that it runs Linux, third being its size and power requirements. I don't particularly care what cpu it uses, just the fact that as a platform it provides fundamental ethernet-friendly communication abilities is where it's at.

    But my "GeekClock" would have to be a bit smarter than these dumb terminals, though. For the "Check IRC Channels" mode, I'd have to be able to implement a mini-irc client, and/or process shell scripts to do something with the output.

  • This thing is awesome. I can't wait until they ship, I've placed an order for 2 of them for instant prototype work on some things I've been meaning to work on for years.

    The fact that it has built-in ethernet is a *major* plus, in my opinion.

    Imagine a small terminal that you can plug into your network and get statistics, information from around your network, instantly.

    You don't need your PC to be up and running, you just have this small device sitting on a pedestal on your desk with a 320x200 screen, scrolling information from your network, displaying bar graphs of system activity, etc.

    Since it runs Linux, we could build a minimal web server for it, so that you can administer it by sticking it on the network and pointing your browser at it.

    I'm going to build something like this when I get my prototype uCSimm boards, and I think I will call it the GeekClock. It'll have a few modes:

    Clock mode (dial/digital face, etc)
    Netmon interface - display stats from various netmon packages on your different machines.
    News scroller - slashdot headlines on your desk!
    IRC interface - see who is in your favourite #channel!

    etc.

    Sort of like a dedicated push client... imho the problem with the whole push phenomenon a few years back was that it required your PC not do much else - if you can have it on your desk and just look at it now and then as you work, it seems to me that this is a better way of doing it.

    And since it'll be an Open Source project, we can make the GeekClock totally rock! Got a module you want to write, simply dl the code, add it, and away we go.

    This way I can finally turn off all the stuff that runs in the background on my main systems, and I don't need to interrupt what I'm doing to keep an eye on things - the GeekClock stands on its pedestal on my desk, telling me whats going on with my network.

    That's just one idea.

    Another idea I had was to add a MIDI interface to it, and use it as a MIDI protocol analyzer - since I write music software for a living, this would be useful to me.

    I guess the point is that there are a whole bunch of things that I could do with a uCSimm when I get one, and I can't wait!

    If anyone is interested in the GeekClock project, don't hesitate to mail me. I'd sure like to colaborate with other people that are interested in putting this nifty device to use...
  • Yes, size is an issue, and the Linux kernel is growing, buuut... although my kernel is not totally minimalist, and I use some modules (especially for the code pages for the Joliet fs), my kernels (compressed (bzImage)) tend to be around 400-600k from memory (I don't look in /boot very often:). I suspect the 400k range (probably 450) comes from my 386 which is compiled with just enough to act as a ipmasq ppp firwall (ie ppp (module), nic (module???), ide, ext2, ipmasq, etc). I suspect my 486 config is around 600k (550?).

    In summary, even 2.2.x kernels can be trimmed down nicely.

  • Hehe, yeah, there's hope:) It actually works very well. My only complaint is dynamic IP and demand dialing don't produce the best results (the initial packet(s?) tend to go out with the wrong IP address in them:(but that's not Linux's fault)

    486, or 386 for that matter, obsolete? Never. Especially when used as a firewall or fileserver. My 386 is my firewall and when I get my new machine, my 486 (currently my main box) will become a file server.

    Hmm, looking it /boot or my case more often... Interesting question with a funny answer. I don't open up my cases very often (generally only for HW upgrades, or a HD falling off:) but my 386 case has a gaping hole in the front that used to hold floppy drives (second hand case) that I use to store my cds (both roms and the music my wife doesn't like so much:). I look in there almost every day, but I don't think that counts.

    Seriously, I hardly even log into my 386 now that I got fetchmail working. I used to log in alot as a relay to rsh to work, but that arrangement has changed. It just sits there beside the 486 holding down the desk, holding up some books and junk and trying to keep the kids out of the CDs. It's otherwise ignored. It just works with it's uptime determined by brown/blackouts (no ups).

  • Posted by Ungrounded Lightning Rod:

    Darn. I was hoping much of the differential between the source and load module increase was more comments.

    B-)
  • Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:

    Insulin existed millions if not billions of years before there was a canada.

    Maybe the process of extracting it from pig pancreases was developed there, or maybe it was the genetic engineering of e. coli to produce it, but Canadians didn't invent insulin. The best things that come out of Canada are the bacon, and Molson.

    LK
  • Whow! I've been wondering about exactly the same issues!

    On the one hand, Linux is adapting to Desktop computers in terms of integrated features and this is a good thing, nobody questions that, but on the other hand, Linux's size means its suitability for embeded applications becomes questionable. Not as questionable as using NT but still... (correct me if I'm wrong, and I wish I were, but I do have heard micros~1 is pushing its NT kernel (if there is such a thing...) for embeded applications)
    Anybody remember this /. article about a cash machine BSODing?

    Now... there is always a way to compile a custom kernel with minimal functionality, thanks god! the size of the compressed kernel source means for a great part that there are now lots of features / drivers / functionality that were just not available a couple of years ago.
    However, how does a minimal 2.2.10 compares with a 1.2.13? (both considered stable if I recall correctly)

    This is important, because projects like linuxrouter [linuxrouter.org] depend on being embedable, either on a floppy or much much more important, on devices like the diskonchip thingy [diskonchip.com]. Do you see the market? routers, dns, xterms, you name it! Any of those devices could work on an embeded 486 with 8Mb or more of RAM. Is this 486/8Mb under my desk, a masquerading router/caching DNS? I thought so too.

    Now... you can spit on Linux, and use QNX [qnx.com] ( check it [qnx.com], QNX is the king!).
    OR, because we're dealing here with a minimal Linux, actually designed for embeded applications, there is a lesser chance to get it wrong, therefore adding to security /stability / once again, you name it. Also, but some people might argue this is not the point (then please tell me what is the point about Linux), make it more attractive to hardware hackers.
    Hackable alternatives to QNX might include katix [funet.fi], ELKS [soton.ac.uk] or even FreeDOS [freedos.org]... and of course, uClinux [uclinux.com].

    Well well well,those are just some thoughts of mine, I'm nowhere involved with The Kernel, therefore I'm not in a very good position to critisize it, I just hope that the right people have reached the same conclusions or are aware of the fact that we may loose an important market if we only concentrate on desktops and above.

    ---

  • 2.2.x on a 386? There might be some hope after all ;)

    What I'm worried about (well, not that worried, but you get the picture :) is that people may well think of 486 and such as obsolete...

    Yeah, what about the smallest webserver seen some time ago on /. ? I don't recall seeing one of those old mobos covered in dust (btw, do you look more often in /boot or inside your case :)... it was just an EMBEDED processor.

    ---

  • That explains why the 487SXes were so damned expensive.. :^)

    -- Does Rain Man use the Autistic License for his software?
  • Well, the TI-83+ only has 160k of RAM (see TIcalc's TI-83+ page [ticalc.org]), so it wouldn't be useful for much of anything.. I doubt you could get much more than the linux kernel stuffed onto it..

    Now, the TI-92+ is a different story! :^)

    -- Does Rain Man use the Autistic License for his software?
  • This could give a real kick in the pants to mobile wireless network access. It is the perfect mate to the Tucson Amateur Packet Radio organization's 1Mbit/s, spread-spectrum, radio modem. [tapr.org] One notable thing about the modem is that its data jack is a 10base-T ethernet port. The other thing worth mentioning here is that it has an approximate 20-mile range. Her's looking forward to production!
  • >4004, 8008, 8080, 8088, 8086, 80186, 80286
    ^
    4040

    The 8088 is an 8086 with an 8 bit bus, so even though it's less powerful (seems to me the hit was about 30%), it probably comes after the 8086 in the sequence
  • Go pull an old intel catalgo, or something else with details. The 4004 and 8008 had very little in common. The 8008 had general memory addressing (14 bits), while the 4004 adressed memory *chips*, with a different address space for RAM and ROM. Both were meant for what we'd now call embedded applications (they weren't meant to be desktops), but it was possible to build a general purpose machine around the 8008. The 4004 tended to end up in cash registers and calculators.

    The 4 bit and 8 bit lines were just plain different. The 4040 was an enhanced 4004, and the 8080 a (much) enhanced 8008. But the 4040 was real, and they sold them. If it wasn't so deeply buried in my basement, I'd pull my old intel parts catalog to give you the citations for it.


  • The 8088 was a bastardized 8086 with external 8-bit bus, where the 8086 was 16-bit throughout. This was done especially at IBMs request, because IBM wanted a CPU for the PC, but didn't want 16-bit external bus, because it didn't want it to compete with its mainframe business, and they though this would shlow down the I/O sufficiently to achieve this and they were right. ISA bus is their other endevour in this direction, and we are still living with that one. This bus reduction disappeared with the 80186, and 80286, which were only available in the full version, but the 80386 brought us 80SX386, which was a similar bastard which was 32-bit internally, and 16-bit externally. The 80SX486 was also crippled, but it lacked the math co-processor which was built into the DX version, and the busses were of the same speed, and bit width. Neither of these crippling techniques have been used since, but now the Celeron is crippled by slower bus speed, and disabling of the SMP functionality. (It can be overclocked, and enabled, but for general user these limits are not surmountable.) So the correct time line of the backward compatible series of CPUs (not counting the odballs of other incompatible cpu lines.):

    4004,8008,8080,8085,8086,8088,80186,80286,80386,80 SX386,80486,80SX486,pentium,pentium pro,pentium MMX, pentium II, pentium II xeon, pentium III, pentium III xeon.

    :>>--

  • Actually 80186 came out first, that is before 80286, and it was meant for general PCs, but it was same speed as 8086, and had a lot of the support chips integrated in itself, things like the SIO, and Clock generator, and other stuff. Manufacturers didn't use it because 8086 plus the other chips was cheaper then the integrated 80186. In PCs the waste of space, and power didn't matter enough to pay more for the 80186, but in embedded systems both are high premium, so the 80186 find its niche there.

    :>>--

  • There was no 4040, since Intel made the 4004 to order, and then sold it to everyone, and people wanted a more powerful version, so intel came out with the 8008, which was the 4004, but in an 8-bit rendition, instead of 4-bit. The 8080 was a faster 8-bit processor, which was more advanced, and faster (orders of magnitude), but still code compatible. Once there were 8-bits on the market on the market there was no interest in the scrappy little 4004, so it was discontinued, and intel never made another 4-bit since.

    :>>--

  • There was no 80187. The 80186 was just 8086 with some extra functionality on the IO side, but no new instruction set, so you just used 8087 with the 80186 if you needed floating point in hardware.

    :>>--

  • Re:Awesome!! (Score:3)

    by jirka ( 1164 ) on Tuesday July 06, 1999 @01:26PM (#1816066) Homepage
    The 4004 was the first general application CPU, which was available outside of research laboratories. Intel made it for a japanese calculator company, but it became quite popular as a general CPU for computers, and was used in trafic control systems, and in some of the early NASA deep space probes, where these chips are still in operation, and transmitting data back to earth. (I think it is in the Voyagers, and Mariners.) This was a very slow 100KHZ, and very simple 4-bit CPU. It was fairly quickly superceded by its more powerfull cousing the 8008, which was an 8-bit machine of similar speed. Then came the 8080, which was also 8-bit, but much faster as it raged from 1-MHz to 4-MHz, and later even faster. At this time some people left Intel, and founded Zilog, which had the bestselling Z80, which was a descendant of th 8080, and was much faster, and more versatile, and could go up to 8-MHz. Intel also released the more integrated 8085, which is still used in some embedded applications, but it was overshadowed by Z80 in fame, and speed. Then Intel made a quick hack of a 16-bit CPU called 8086 to beat Motorola, and have the first 16-bit on the market. They meant to phase it out later, but unfortunately IBM adopted a crippled version of it called 8088, which was internally 16-bit, and externally 8-bit. So until today we live with the compromises this hack made to be finished with the design in just 6-weeks. We suffer from the horrible memory model, and other penalties. This model overshadowed the Z80, and its successors 80186, 80286, 80386, 80486, pentium, pentium pro, pentium II, and pentium III are still the mainstream today. They can still run some of the 4004 code if you wanted to, and if you switch them into the basic compatibility mode. The descendants of the Z80 the Z280, and the Z380 haven't done nearly as well, but Zilog is still around manufacturing embedded version of the Z80, which is still used in cars, kitchen appliances, hard drive controllers, and such. They beat Intel at its own game for a while, but the selection of 8088 by IBM over other chips elevated Intel so far, that no one has been able unseat them from the throne. That is not to say that Intel didn't have its own failures. The 80186 was a disaster, and alsmost no one used it as a compoter chip, although it did some business as an embedded processor. The real 16-bit project meant to replace the X86 series, and usher in era of more designer friendlier CPUs was continually delayed, and when it came out it was underwhelming, and never succeded as a general computer CPU, although it has seen some success as embedded processor, and was user as a brain of laser printers until the late 1990s. This was the i960, and i860 series of processors. The merced project is the latest attemp by Intel to get rid off the pupolar bastard X86, but many thing it is doomed to failure like the earlier chips. Only future will show us what will really happen.

    :>>--

  • >d00d, Linux is not getting smaller. the kernel is getting bigger. >for someone like me who doesn't need all these new features the kernel >adds, that tends to suck.

    Then recompile the kernel moron, leaving out the stuff you don't need. BWT just what do you think the people who are creating the single floppy distros are doing? You mickeysoft flacks are really quite ignorant, aren't you?
  • i'm surprised no one has commented on the other possibilities of this thing...

    ..bring it to an office building/computer lab/dorm and hook it to an ethernet port.. run a packet sniffer / tcp connection hijacker. sniff/steal the passwords of everyone in the building.

    ..add a speaker and you have a exceedingly flexible tone generator. remember those radio shack telephone dialers that were so easily modified to make pay-phone coin drop tones?

    there's probably more, but i'm just not l33t enough to think of them. but you see where this thing can be a powerful force for eeeevil as well, don't you?

    "Now you see that evil will always triumph, because Good is dumb."
    -- Dark Helmet
  • umm.. that is source code dude. try comparing the NT kernel with the compiled Linux kernel. I can fit a bootable kernel on a 1.44M boot disk. Do that with NT.
  • That does not create a bootable disk, only an NT Repair Disk. If you read the message that pops up when you run that command, it says:

    "This utility updates the repair information saved when you installed your system, and creates an Emergency Repair Disk. The repair information is used to recover a bootable system in case of failure. This utility should not be used as a backup tool."

    Basically, if your system doesn't boot, you do a reinstall and then use this disk to try to recover your registry entries and user database, etc.

  • ... Not a bad rendition at all. I suspect you have lived somewhere around here. However, there were a few mistakes that gave you away:

    It's foolin not fooling, Winders not Windows, and bidness not business.
  • >could it be possible to put 8 of those little nifty devices in my old mobo? that would be nice!

    Although they would physically fit into a 30-pin memory socket, the electrical meaning of the various pins is different. To make a beowulf cluster you'd need a custom "motherboard", probably including an ethernet hub.

    However, since these modules are only clocked at 16 MHz, it would take a lot of them to out-perform a single StrongARM-class chip. These modules seem much better suited to distributed control and home automation than to number-crunching.

  • However, you cannot deny the geekiness of having an entire 8-machine Beowulf cluster on one motherboard.

  • What would the Intel 4004 be?

    Old.

    ...4004, 8008, 8080, 8088, 8086, 80186, 80286...


    (not sure about the middle of that sequence w/the 88 'n 086, tho.)
  • I wish I had some moderator points, I'd up your post. This device is MUCH more interesting than the ucSimm or whatever they're calling it.

    Similar capabilities, much faster, less than 1/3 the cost. If I was going to spend the $$$ on an embedded unit like that, this is the one I'd probably pick.
  • the kernel easealy fits in 521kB of ram.

  • And, consider that some of that source code increase is due to platform specific things like x86, Alpha, SPARC, UltraSparc, MIPS, and PPC ports. And, drivers for various hardware that doesn't overlap, and support for a lot of filesystems.

    The only exscuse MS has is drivers.

    As for distribution bloat, that is expected, and ihas less to do with Linux and more to do with the increasing amount of Open Source software available to put in a Distribution. So, in a sense distribution bloat is a good thing because it says there is a lot of open source software out there to put in a distribution.
  • Anyone out there do Robot Wars? One of these would probably work nicely. ;-)
  • What about using the ethernet connection to handle communication between multiple uCsimms in the saem robot. Wired ethernet should be able to handle that. Aren't there 10baseT to wireless converters?
  • Makes ya wonder how long it takes to compile a full kernel on one of these puppies.. heh.
    Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
  • What would the Intel 4004 be?
    Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I wasn't able to find it on the site, does anyone know what the memory usage of the little kernel is? How much of that 8MB RAM/1-4MB flash do I get to play with?

    Re: MMU/Supervisor mode in 68k-
    The 68030 introduced an MMU (as did a certian other chip with a conspicuosly distinguishing 3 in it) and before that some MacII's with 68020's had an external MMU. An MMU can prevent memory thrashing, but the Supervisor mode present in all 68k chips only controls who gets executed at interrupt time and system traps. Supervisor mode doesn't do much for safety aside from providing some organization to buttress the OS on.
  • Yes, Breezecom makes ethernet bridge products that are supposed to work reasonably well, albit at 1mb.
  • d00d, Linux is not getting smaller. the kernel is getting bigger.

    for someone like me who doesn't need all these new features the kernel adds, that tends to suck. i really noticed this when i was recently building some ramdisk floppies. i was starting with the darkstar resque disk (a 2.0.22 kernel) and wanted to use 2.0.29 for some networking drivers. it just wasn't going to happen with all the tools i needed as it was laid out.

    and that's not to mention that distributions are getting all too large to fit onto small disks (ie look at the base size of a RedHat install). which is one reason i'm playing with single floppy distros on some of my systems.

    that's not to say that Linux sucks (anyone who knows me know i have it deployed in a very important areas, like some of my beowulf supercomputing!), but seriously, let's face it, Linux is also suffering some code bloat.

    jose
  • > I want one, but I want to know why I want one.

    You need a reason for neat toys? I know I don't (OTOH, convincing my wife that I need on is a totally different story :-( ).

    Meow-wow!
  • IBM's selection ofthe 8088 was a little more complicated than that:

    Motorola couldn't guarantee the volumes of chips IBM wanted with the newer 16 bit technology. Intel's 8088 using 8 bit chips pretending to be 16 bit (yup, the 386 SX was not the first) meant they could use older more proven fabrication techniques and existing (dirt-cheap) 8 bit support chips.

    I was under the impression that the 8086 existed FIRST, and the 8088 was a hack to get the volume and cheapness IBM wanted. I guess we'd have to ask an Intel veteran. Rob

  • Hey - I know plenty of people with dumb-souding accents that don't like Microsoft stuff... :) Unless that's your normal style of speaking, in which case I apologize for mocking your accent.
  • We used some X-terminals (HP 900) that used the '186 as processor.

    (These were "XDMed" to particular DECStation 2100 machines, to the irritation of those using the machines directly.)
  • Dallas Semiconductor (the folks who make the Java ring) have a product called TINI [ibutton.com] that puts ethernet and Java into this form factor. (They're working on a single-chip version.)
    --
  • Okay, you need a reason?

    It's the Linux Kernel. It's small. It supports LCD, 10base-T and LCD screens.

    Okay: power-supply. lcd display that projects an image into your eye, mounted on glasses. twiddler. wireless 10base-T network.

    Welcome to the world of wearables.

    Okay, so it's only 2.7MIPS. So through together a small hub and a bunch of these. Beowulf cluster in your fannypack.

    Any questions? ;-)
  • Yeah, but thats also the source code for like 6 other platforms.
  • I love linux for the fact that I can make a 386/dx 20 a firewall with an http proxy server. I use a 486DX50 at home for my webserver. Pretty snappy with only 28M of ram. I am upgrading to a 486DX 66 and 32M of ram next week. Should be interesting.
  • Thats funny... "yeah I got a RAID 5 Floppy array its 4MB. The disks are hot swapable when the light is out."
  • With a head-set you could have it much smaller...
  • Now we're finnaly able to implement the computers used in the book "Enders Game" (Read it? It's _good_); Just put together one of these with a 14" TFT-screen with the press-sensitivity of a Palm Pilot, and you're there! If I had the money, I would hack it (And if I had the time, I would hack my favourite idea UI for Linux, too and run on it, too).
  • Here [chipworks.com]'s what's in the new Palm VII.

    (Disclaimer: I get paid by this company to hack/rev-eng the hardware, not marketing.)
  • symbol technologies makes a whole bunch of options there
    www.symbol.com
  • Looks right to me, only one comment. I believe that the 80286 came out before the 186, and that the 186 didn't end up in embedded systems because it was a failure, but because that's what it was intended to do.
    -Ted
  • So maybe with 16 or so of these babys I could run PVM, and then hack floppy RAID support.....
  • I assume that there shouldn't be any problem playing back uncompressed 16bit 48KHz audio -- the bandwidth is far less than 10-base-T and there's not a lot of processing involved -- this may be just the device to build a tiny DAT-quality field-recorder...

    Hmmm.... may be time to pick up one of these puppys...
  • OK, so I could have a web server in my clock radio, but other than that, what purpose would something like the uCSIMM offer the average joe? Is this mainly aimed at the embedded folks?

    I want one, but I want to know why I want one.

    Dave
  • What are some applications of this?

    What can I do with this that's cool?
  • I might be interested in getting one of these, IF I can get an LCD display for it. Does anyone know where to find LCD displays that would work on this mighty SIMM?
  • Didn't *Microsoft* sell an 80186 upgrade card for the XT at one time? Couldn't afford it myself... I opted for the NEC V-20 chip. Cheap, and about a 33% increase in speed! Yow, baby! Those were the DAYS!
  • Exactly. The Altair wasn't very useful, but people who had one, had a lot of fun with them, and those of us who couldn't afford them lusted after them with all our hearts. I applaud this effort! It is the true spirit of Linux, and of computer science in general!!
  • I know of a used computer store that has a few used LCD screens. Could I use one of these chips to controll one? That would make a killer flat screen for my server. I could attach it to the case with velcro!

    This leads me to my next question, how would I design such a project(the screen, not the simm)? If anyone has tried to use a replacemant laptop LCD on a desktop I would love to hear it.

    Loren


  • I still have a couple of these machines around - great for (really old) games, and for home automation projects.

  • sounds good for robots (Score:3)

    by jonathanclark ( 29656 ) on Tuesday July 06, 1999 @02:03PM (#1816109) Homepage
    compared to other micro boards used for robotics:

    pros
    - low power ussage when idle
    - lots of ram (for the size)
    - good number of io/ports. good for controlling servo motors and reading digital sensors.
    - fairly fast. Probably good enough to do some image processing.
    - ethernet useful for fast experimentation in tethered mode.
    - nice environment to work in (linux!)

    cons
    - Needs at least one A/D converter.
    - Wireless Ethernet would be more useful. Autonomous robots aren't going to be able to use plain ethernet.
  • You might also try taking a look at the JumpTec DIMM pc which is an amd core 486 dx2 66, 16 M ram, 16 M IDE flash disk, ide controller, serial, paralell, floopy, and an ISA bus on pins, isn't much bigger than this, but it is a little more expensive, but it would give you an MMU and a more mature Linux option... The stanford wearable people are using them...
  • It's interesing that Linux and computers keep getting smaller and smaller while Microsoft's source code keeps getting bigger and bigger ...

    "Judge me by my size do you? and well you should not..."
  • Oh my gosh, Linux is so big they could barely fit UCLinux on a SIMM! that's horrible. And all those single floppy distros(Tom's Root Boot), my gosh, talk about a bloated kernel!

    Personally I think that the scalabilty of Linux is one of it's greatest assests. It can be as bloated and slow or as small and fast as you want it to be.

    I gotta admit though, anyone who uses Beowulf clusters is OK in my book, even if they don't know how to recompile a kernel ;)
  • If you don't need a certain feature of the kernel, then why would you compile it in. One of the great things about Linux and Open source is that you can maximize functionality (adding new features) without making the kernel so big (don't compile in what you don't need). Using modules can reduce the size of your kernel, too.

    TI
  • How much does a QVGA display costs and where
    can i get one?

  • Re:Z80 (Score:1)

    by Kento ( 36001 )
    How do you write assembly on the TIs? I have a TI-92 that I got for free in a math competition, and I'd kinda like to have some fun with it (maybe port linux to it... hehe)
  • actually those are damn expensive..something like $7-800
  • the sequel is even better. Xenocide deals with a much better machine and the futuristic equivalent of the internet. yay for Orson Scott Card (at least i hope i got his name right. :)) !!,
  • doesn't another company put out credit card size systems with at least pentium class power? I seem to recall it having all the bells and whistles (VGA, serial and parallel IO, HD controller, etc.) on board. I think they start at about $600, though. I would want one of those for a useful wearable.

    This little jewel is very nice though. I can see MANY uses for it. It would be perfect for high school wearable/control projects since the price is so low.
  • Hey, lighten up! The guy is right, the core Kernel code is getting larger. The core Kernel size has grown since the last revision, and a little of that is bloat, but most of it is speed optimization. Sometimes greater speed = complex code, and that's OK.
    You need to relax and adjust your flame valve.
  • The 487SX was actually a full scale version of the 486(ala 486DX) that fit in a different socket. When you installed it, it just disabled the 486SX cpu already in your system and replaced it with itself.

    I think the same was the case with the older SX processors, but I can't say for sure :)
  • As far as the mp3 player goes, does the processor have enough horsepower to pull off high quality (128kbit+) mp3s?
  • Considering that the TI-83 Plus (with *flash rom*!) is out now, are you considering porting linux to that? Or are the memory constraints just too high for anything less than a pure ASM OS?
  • Hate to reply to myself, but i was referring to those crazed hackers out there who insist on putting linux on everything (and what they have done is damn impressive)
  • It is kind of hard to put PalmOS, QNX and WinCE in the same boat. Yes, you could use each with a GUI, but each has very different design goals. QNX is realtime first, with a GUI second. PalmOS was built on top of Kadak's AMX (realtime first, GUI later). PalmOS added the GUI we know and love. WinCE is just gooey :-). Seriously, WinCE is GUI (really look-and-feel) first, realtime a distant second.

    I don't know much about the PalmOS, but QNX DOES use the MMU, at least on the x86 version. For years, that was one of the big selling points of the OS. Same with WinCE.

    I don't know that much about the Dragonball, but other 68k machines (I know, not quite the same) had user/supervisor modes that one could use to at least keep an application from crashing the OS.

  • For the world's sake, I hope things dont get any smaller. The cell phone I use is the one that you get for 1c when you sign up for service, but its smaller than any pager I've seen and nobody can tell what I'm saying when I use it because it can't reach my ear and my mouth at the same time.

    though it would be nice for someone to invent something along the lines of a PCMCIA 3D card.
  • Hey! lets hook a uCSimm up to one of those suckers that play music inside your head when you bite them and make an audial-hallucination simulating turing machine!
  • The vast majority of embedded applications do not require screaming speed. This is why 8-bit microcontrollers continue to out sell all others. The real advantage here is to enable designers to connect their products to LAN's at a reasonable cost. The next challenge will be to come up with a good quality API/SDK to promote the exploitation of this new resource.
  • Its remember the firt days of Altair computer,
    whe you order by mail your kit, and after some
    hardwork with your soldering iron you got a box with some keys, and you need to setup every assembler instruction without any error using that keys to boot from a paper tape.

    And the legend tells that our "friend" Bill started their company hacking a basic for the Altair using computer time paid by us in the university.

    Malba Thaan
    (excuse my poor knowledge of english)

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