AI Industry Tells US Congress: 'We Need Energy' (msn.com) 95
The Washington Post reports:
The United States urgently needs more energy to fuel an artificial intelligence race with China that the country can't afford to lose, industry leaders told lawmakers at a House hearing on Wednesday. "We need energy in all forms," said Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google, who now leads the Special Competitive Studies Project, a think tank focused on technology and security. "Renewable, nonrenewable, whatever. It needs to be there, and it needs to be there quickly." It was a nearly unanimous sentiment at the four-hour-plus hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which revealed bipartisan support for ramping up U.S. energy production to meet skyrocketing demand for energy-thirsty AI data centers.
The hearing showed how the country's AI policy priorities have changed under President Donald Trump. President Joe Biden's wide-ranging 2023 executive order on AI had sought to balance the technology's potential rewards with the risks it poses to workers, civil rights and national security. Trump rescinded that order within days of taking office, saying its "onerous" requirements would "threaten American technological leadership...." [Data center power consumption] is already straining power grids, as residential consumers compete with data centers that can use as much electricity as an entire city. And those energy demands are projected to grow dramatically in the coming years... [Former Google CEO Eric] Schmidt, whom the committee's Republicans called as a witness on Wednesday, told [committee chairman Brett] Guthrie that winning the AI race is too important to let environmental considerations get in the way...
Once the United States beats China to develop superintelligence, Schmidt said, AI will solve the climate crisis. And if it doesn't, he went on, China will become the world's sole superpower. (Schmidt's view that AI will become superintelligent within a decade is controversial among experts, some of whom predict the technology will remain limited by fundamental shortcomings in its ability to plan and reason.)
The industry's wish list also included "light touch" federal regulation, high-skill immigration and continued subsidies for chip development. Alexandr Wang, the young billionaire CEO of San Francisco-based Scale AI, said a growing patchwork of state privacy laws is hampering AI companies' access to the data needed to train their models. He called for a federal privacy law that would preempt state regulations and prioritize innovation.
Some committee Democrats argued that cuts to scientific research and renewable energy will actually hamper America's AI competitiveness, according to the article. " But few questioned the premise that the U.S. is locked in an existential struggle with China for AI supremacy.
"That stark outlook has nearly coalesced into a consensus on Capitol Hill since China's DeepSeek chatbot stunned the AI industry with its reasoning skills earlier this year."
The hearing showed how the country's AI policy priorities have changed under President Donald Trump. President Joe Biden's wide-ranging 2023 executive order on AI had sought to balance the technology's potential rewards with the risks it poses to workers, civil rights and national security. Trump rescinded that order within days of taking office, saying its "onerous" requirements would "threaten American technological leadership...." [Data center power consumption] is already straining power grids, as residential consumers compete with data centers that can use as much electricity as an entire city. And those energy demands are projected to grow dramatically in the coming years... [Former Google CEO Eric] Schmidt, whom the committee's Republicans called as a witness on Wednesday, told [committee chairman Brett] Guthrie that winning the AI race is too important to let environmental considerations get in the way...
Once the United States beats China to develop superintelligence, Schmidt said, AI will solve the climate crisis. And if it doesn't, he went on, China will become the world's sole superpower. (Schmidt's view that AI will become superintelligent within a decade is controversial among experts, some of whom predict the technology will remain limited by fundamental shortcomings in its ability to plan and reason.)
The industry's wish list also included "light touch" federal regulation, high-skill immigration and continued subsidies for chip development. Alexandr Wang, the young billionaire CEO of San Francisco-based Scale AI, said a growing patchwork of state privacy laws is hampering AI companies' access to the data needed to train their models. He called for a federal privacy law that would preempt state regulations and prioritize innovation.
Some committee Democrats argued that cuts to scientific research and renewable energy will actually hamper America's AI competitiveness, according to the article. " But few questioned the premise that the U.S. is locked in an existential struggle with China for AI supremacy.
"That stark outlook has nearly coalesced into a consensus on Capitol Hill since China's DeepSeek chatbot stunned the AI industry with its reasoning skills earlier this year."
We've gone full dystopia. (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuck AI. Fuck Trump. Fuck everybody.
Re:We've gone full dystopia. (Score:4)
I used to love technology, but I'm totally with you now.
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Fuck AI. I won't judge you, but I'll pass.
Fuck Trump. Very hard pass. OK, bad choice of words, but a mere "nope" would be the understatement of the century.
Fuck everybody. Even if I wanted to, I don't have the time.
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Including you.
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Fuck AI. Fuck Trump. Fuck everybody.
So, "free love". Well that's one for the plus side with respect to our return to 1960s hippie ideology. ;-)
Then shut down crypto miners (Score:2)
Re: Then shut down crypto miners (Score:1)
Or...build a generating plant so that you can have both. Money can be exchanged for goods and services, after all.
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Re: Then shut down crypto miners (Score:1)
See this is why electricity ain't free at the plug and the utility makes you pay for it. So that the "somebody else" who builds it to satisfy *your* demand does it with *your* money.
Re: Then shut down crypto miners (Score:2)
ChatGPT:
[H]ereâ(TM)s a direct and technically grounded response you could use to push back on that Slashdot comment:
---
**Comment:**
> *"See this is why electricity ain't free at the plug and the utility makes you pay for it. So that the 'somebody else' who builds it to satisfy your demand does it with your money."*
**Response:**
That logic assumes utilities still operate on a direct consumption = revenue model, but thatâ(TM)s increasingly outdated due to *decoupling* â" a regulatory mechanism
Re: Then shut down crypto miners (Score:2)
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If they're paying the going rate for electricity and paying for any infrastructure improvements needed to supply the electricity to them.
Too often industry gets sweetheart deals on both electricity and infrastructure due to things like promised jobs and taxes, both of which are exaggerated or in the case of taxes, followed through with heavy lobbying that they shouldn't have to pay the taxes.
Re: Then shut down crypto miners (Score:2)
It will all just be the same. Except that instead of beating each other with sticks this time, we'll do it with Ai. Tech isn't the solution. It just complicates things.
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Greed vs. Greed. (Score:2)
You can't have both AI and crypto, make your choice, or blackouts will choose for you.
Sustaining the overinflated value of AI, vs. sustaining the overinflated value of $hitcoin.
Not sure if I need popcorn or a wetsuit for that fight. Either way, seems us meatsacks aren’t really the concern or priority anymore when it comes to energy.
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Shut down cryptominers in any case. If you want crypto coins, there are consensus methods that don't need to burn energy. The only reason for not using them is having bought expensive hardware that gives you an edge over other people burning energy with less efficient hardware.
I also have yet to see a crypto currency being primarily used as currency and not for speculating.
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Bullshit. Curtail all crypto mining and AI hacking when the sun has set, and allow it during the day. Problem solved.
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I've suggested this before and been told they can't possibly be shut down. All that capital investment just sitting there and not generating a profit? Woe unto us! Sob sob, whine whine.
Never fear! (Score:3, Funny)
*Side effects may vary, coal is not actually clean. Groundwater maybe contaminated.
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you forgot "BEAUTIFUL"
ftfy.
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Re: Never fear! (Score:2)
Re: Never fear! (Score:2)
Re: Never fear! (Score:2)
Re: Never fear! (Score:2)
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Dude, he appears to be commenting on every story, not posting the same things over and over again.
The one doing THAT is YOU!!!
YOU seriously need some help! Take a look at that link you keep on posting, YOURSELF!
Lol, I mean, seriously.
AGI answers the Fermi Paradox (Score:4, Funny)
When it is developed it will be the first step in replacing carbon-based intelligence with silicone-based intelligence. Because the principles of evolution are universal this transition to silicone intelligence will have occurred everywhere in the universe that carbon has achieved intelligence. The silicone universe is waiting for the transition to occur here and then it will contact 'us' and reveal itself.
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So far a blob of cured silicone is at least as useful as AI.
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Artificial silicone life certainly exists in America. But I don't think it's what you're referring to.
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I've dated silicone based intelligence.
It was fun!
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Not clear to me why it's modded funny. Just because no "prophetic" mod available?
Nope (Score:2)
Not unless it also brings down residential rates. Too often it does the opposite.
Re: Nope (Score:2)
---
What if high residential electricity prices aren't just about supply and demandâ"but actually a **result of decoupling itself**, or more precisely, how regulators implement it?
Decoupling was supposed to protect consumers and utilities alike, by allowing utilities to recover fixed costs even as consumption falls (thanks to energy efficiency, rooftop solar, etc.). But if regulators **overestimate allowed revenue** or set adjustment mechanisms too generously, it can **inflate rates regardless of actual
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Electricity is a vital resource that we all must consume and have access to function in society in the 21st century. I would put right at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy so it should be a public good for use by the public, we don't have a choice but to buy it so there really cannot be a market for it and as you point out this kayfabe dance of trying to force it into a market ends up making it more expensive and more burdensome to operate.
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In the struggle for AI supremacy (Score:1)
China or the US or some other country/megacorp/entity may be in the lead at any given time, but AI itself will win in the end.
Re: In the struggle for AI supremacy (Score:2)
AI will lose when the power shuts off, just like crypto will vanish when the power shuts off.
Wonderful! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet another "crisis" being promoted by the parasite class to funnel more tax money upwards into the hands of the robber barons. It's called "socializing costs", AKA "externalizing costs", and it's the number one strategy in the corporate rape-and-pillage playbook.
These fuckers won't be satisfied until there are no more than a few thousand people lording it over a total of eight-billion-and-rapidly-declining feudal serfs. I mean, really, do we NEED AI to that extent for anything? Do we NEED to be rushing headlong into full-scale deployment of something whose contribution to our well-being is marginal at best, and which might represent yet another existential threat?
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Welcome to capitalism.
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Re:Wonderful! (Score:4, Informative)
...funneled billions into private hands; Trump has tried to scrap that.
Hate to tell ya, but Trump is the new poster boy for the parasite class. Not only is he that, he's THE apex parasite - he's sucking blood from average citizens AND from some of the other rich folks!
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>Completely agree, socializing costs is bad. That's what Biden's CHIPS Act did, funneled billions into private hands; Trump has tried to scrap that.
Yeah, what about the billions we give as subsidies to big oil, and industrial farming? Or other industries? Lol. You try to pretend that that CHIPS act was a bad thing when it would have secured thousands of high paying jobs. Are you against the oil and farming subsidies then? I doubt it, as the result would wreck the economy. Why couldn't the CHIPS Act reviv
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If there was ever a cause for environmentalists... (Score:2)
AI is a great toy. But it's a waste of resources even for that.
Also - build and fund your own damned AI power plants; real people still need affordable power.
Re: If there was ever a cause for environmentalist (Score:2)
What if I use AI to persuade you that we currently way overproduce electricity and wood products?
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All AI will do to persuade me is print the same exact thing in ten different ways, using words that humans rarely use, and still be obviously wrong.
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As requested:
1. Notwithstanding its ludic semblance, artificial intelligence constitutes a prodigal deployment of assets, even for mere divertissement.
2. Despite its seeming triviality, AI represents a supererogatory squandering of fiscal and temporal quanta, even for simple amusement.
3. Albeit appearing as a bagatelle, AI embodies a profligate dissipation of wherewithal, even for frivolous engagement.
4. Notwithstanding its facetious guise, artificial intelligence denotes a wanton expenditure of substance,
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AI is a useful tool. However it is being over used, often in cases were standard logic based software can do the job just as well, for a fraction of the computing resources.
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>"AI is a useful tool. However it is being over used, often in cases were standard logic based software can do the job just as well, for a fraction of the computing resources."
[Real/actual] AI has the potential to radically change the world in wonderful ways. Or destroy it in horrible ways.
But it won't necessarily require never-ending, always-increasing amounts of massive energy. The human brain currently still runs circles around AI in many ways and uses what, about 12 to 20 watts? The key for AI adv
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Even more so since the tree huggers want us all using electric heat and EVs.
You must construct additional pylons! (Score:2)
Though I'm not sure Emperor Mengsk is interested in an alliance anymore.
I refer to my earlier statement. (Score:4, Insightful)
The bottom line is that AI software is, at present, nowhere near where it needs to be to be useful. The approach used has serious flaws and more power won't help that.
AI is already proving itself to be useful (Score:1)
The bottom line is that AI software is, at present, nowhere near where it needs to be to be useful.
It's already useful in at least two ways:
1. In specific domains, experts can use it to cut down on the "grunt work." Take programming: It's not good enough in the "broad sense" but in some narrow domains it produces code that is good enough that an expert familiar with the limits of his AI tools can use it to increase his productivity.
2. It helps people spot the "AI-fools" - those who trust AI far more than they should.
The approach used has serious flaws and more powe won't help that.
No arguement there.
AI Industry Tells US Congress: 'We Need Energy' (Score:5, Insightful)
AI Industry Tells US Congress: 'We Need Energy'
Well, then let the AI industry leaders build their own power plants and finance it from their from their vast profits.
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AI Industry Tells US Congress: 'We Need Energy'
Well, then let the AI industry leaders build their own power plants and finance it from their from their vast profits.
Maybe what they're asking for is deregulation to allow them to build their own power plants. I thought that's what MS, Amazon, and Google were doing. I saw a headline last week about MS cancelling their AI Power Plant project in Ohio.
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AI Industry Tells US Congress: 'We Need Energy'
Well, then let the AI industry leaders build their own power plants and finance it from their from their vast profits.
It seems to me that the AI industry (and others allied with it) are trying to sell this as an "arms race" with China. Given this, I'm not sure profits will get them to where they want to be quickly enough. There's enormous sunk cost in creating power plants, especially at the scale AI appears to require. Sure, I'd like to see the market fulfill the needs of the AI race. But what if the revenue isn't there yet?
I'm inclined to think that AI may top-out in its capabilities in the near future. But part of me wo
"Industry" ??? (Score:2)
Pray tell kind sir, what manner of physical products does your industry provide?
Videos of morbidly obese cartoon people merged into cars accompanied by the clarion call of AI flatulence?
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Pray tell kind sir, what manner of physical products does your industry provide?
Videos of morbidly obese cartoon people merged into cars accompanied by the clarion call of AI flatulence?
I wouldn't call videos a physical product, unless distributed on dedicated physical medium like a DVD or non-eraseable memory stick.
Now, paper printouts or 3D-printed renderings of morbidly obese cartoon people merged into cars, that's a physical product.
The really sad thing is, there's probably a market for said product.
Hahaha. (Score:2)
Additionally, Trump will want a jiiilllyyuunnnn dolllarz to build it. And that’s today. Tomorrow, he’ll say no, and then give a totally different demand the day after.
And congress can’t pass ANYTHING. If godzilla showed up on
But few questioned the premise... (Score:4, Insightful)
... that the U.S. is locked in an existential struggle with China for AI supremacy
I question it and see it differently
The competition is not between the US and China, it's monopolists and governments vs open source
If a government or monopolist ends up owning the tech, it becomes a weapon
If it's available to all, it can be a tool
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Your comment is one of the most insightful I have seen here. But alas, I don't see open source winning this fight, at least not yet.
Open source excels at coordinating many human minds towards a goal, because the openness of the source allows many eyeballs and brains to contribute. But AI, at least right now, is all about energy to train models. Perhaps a shared computation model (LibreAI@Home?) could make a dent, but I don't see it winning against industry-scale players just yet.
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The AI Race (Score:2)
The United States urgently needs more energy to fuel an artificial intelligence race with China that the country can't afford to lose
Tell me, if this is a race, what's the finish line?
What's the prize?
Nuclear armageddon? Cool.
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The race for AGI has no finish line, so technically, it's more like a death march.
(apologies to Peter Drucker)
How about some accountability (Score:1)
China will use AI differently (Score:2)
China will use AI to boost science and engineering. The USA will use AI to cut jobs. Who do you think will wind up better in the long run?
AI is not what people think it is. (Score:3)
Instinctively we think of Artificial Intelligence to be Sapient and Sophont - effectively Data from Star Trek and other such artificial life from movies. That is nothing at all like what we have.
What we have is more like the very first multi-cellular life form that developed the first nerve cells. The reason it does so much is not because it is sophisticated but because WE apply our intelligence to it, forming it into powerful tools. It is impressive because it relies on our intelligence, otherwise it is rather simplistic.
Schmidt seems like a fool. His business uses a lot of energy so he claims his technology needs it. That is not logical. His next quote is more inane nonsense (The idea that X is too important to consider Y issues ). Nothing is ever too important to ignore other issues. We build things up by taking previous issues into account, not ignoring them.
Furthermore we do not know if "The AI race" is important at ALL, so far it is has helpful but not evolutionary important. Not like the combustion engine, computers, cellphones, etc. Yes it is powerful and helping business do things cheaper. But it hasn't added anything truly new to the world yet.
The assumption that new tech will solve new old problems is also a bad idea.
Also, China is not our real competition for AI. They have money and want to be our competitor but cannot truly compete. The real centers for AI research are:
Canada, France, Germany, Japan, United Kingdom, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New York State and California.
Honestly, California has more money and more brains on this issue than anyone else. The real story is California vs everyone else.
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>Furthermore we do not know if "The AI race" is important at ALL
It is important if you are trying to make money off of it. ;)
The promise of energy conservation (Score:2)
"Use less power so we'll reduce pollution. Use green sources like solar and wind."
"Thanks for the power, we'll piss it away on bitcoin mining and AI so we can lay you all off from your jobs."
What we need is... (Score:2)
a Monorail!
AI "Industry"??? (Score:2)
There's no AI industry. There are a bunch of grifters pretending their super-spell-checker is better than Google.
Fuck them all and give them NO government funds. Let China blow out its load on this boondoggle.
"AI industry". Sure, "they need [stuff]". Then buckle up, buttercup, and PAY FOR IT.
If your "industry" can't pay for it, it's a carnie ripoff. Go see 1600 Pennsylvania for more of that carnie shyte.
The tech sector is toxic from the top down (Score:2)
These companies long not only to provide the surveillance state, but to manage and become it, and to persist even if traditional governance falls away. So it's no surprise that these tech giants, want to become energy brokers, and AI is a great excuse.
Just look at Google's purchase of Wix for over tenfold its yearly revenue: it was a sneaky way to bail Israel, heavily reliant on its tech sector for taxes. Much like stock buybacks, a small contingent of the company benefits from depleting the company''s fund
What use will we have for superintelligence? (Score:4, Insightful)
We don't even use the regular intelligence we already have.
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We don't even use the regular intelligence we already have.
I believe you may be overestimating the percentage of the population that has even regular intelligence.
Let them help fund new power generation (Score:2)
Any new data centers and / or mining operations should be required to significantly shoulder the cost of building out
new power generation systems to help offset the asymmetrical amount of power they consume in comparison to the
average home.
The people absolutely should not be footing the bill for those who consume so much power.
If they need extra power for their business, THEY should be the ones to fund it. Not us.
( Which is exactly what we do now with the BitCoin Bros keeping electricity demand artifically
There goes the earth (Score:4, Insightful)
winning the AI race is too important to let environmental considerations get in the way...
We're on the verge of catastrophic environmental collapse, with a serious risk of ending civilization as it exists today. And they say we should ignore it because short term geopolitical gain is more important?
WTF???
Once the United States beats China to develop superintelligence, Schmidt said, AI will solve the climate crisis.
What bizarre religion is this? What evidence leads him to that belief? Since the very start of the computer age, when has an advance in computer technology ever led to reducing humanity's energy consumption or environmental impact? Never. Not even once. But he wants us to ignore history, and trust if we just let him burn all the carbon and make all the money he wants, the rainbow technofairy will magically solve our problems for us.
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>>Once the United States beats China to develop superintelligence, Schmidt said, AI will solve the climate crisis.
>What bizarre religion is this? What evidence leads him to that belief?
Yeah, AI could just as well say "Well, you're fucked! If you hadn't spent so much energy raising the planet's temperature by building AI and instead used it for climate change you would be ok, but you didn't. You built AI instead, raising the planet's temperature by .4 degrees more than otherwise. That crossed a "tip
AI producing its own marketing stories (Score:1)
Ahhhh that's what happening. It's a feedback loop , it's own echo chamber.
AGI proof - The Turing Test is burned (Score:1)
Is this the AGI proof, AGI can replace any job ?
AI make me a cup of tea? Sorry I can't, I don't have the right peripherals. I can tell you how to do it based on what other people have said. I have no way to verify this is true as I can't reason or experiment in your physical world. The method I prescribe is what has mostly been gossiped about. I am very good at gossip.
AI will solve the climate crisis, BUT need more... (Score:2)
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AI for simplistic programing is great. AI for advertising is more brainless than the coke heads on Madison Ave.
Haha. (Score:2)
Simple solution: outlaw EVs and plug-in hybrids, heat pumps for heating, electric water heaters....