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Acer To Raise US Laptop Prices 10% After Tariffs (telegraph.co.uk) 311
Acer will raise laptop prices in the United States by 10% next month due to Trump administration tariffs on Chinese imports, CEO Jason Chen said. "We will have to adjust the end user price to reflect the tariff," Chen said. "We think 10 percent probably will be the default price increase because of the import tax."
The Taiwan-based company, the fifth-largest computer seller in the U.S. market behind HP, Dell, Lenovo and Apple, could add hundreds of dollars to its high-end laptops that cost up to $3,700. Chen said Acer is exploring manufacturing options outside China, including possible U.S. production. The company has already moved desktop computer assembly out of China following earlier 25% tariffs during Trump's first term. The 10% tariff imposed this month affects nearly 80% of U.S. laptop imports from China.
The Taiwan-based company, the fifth-largest computer seller in the U.S. market behind HP, Dell, Lenovo and Apple, could add hundreds of dollars to its high-end laptops that cost up to $3,700. Chen said Acer is exploring manufacturing options outside China, including possible U.S. production. The company has already moved desktop computer assembly out of China following earlier 25% tariffs during Trump's first term. The 10% tariff imposed this month affects nearly 80% of U.S. laptop imports from China.
Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Insightful)
In addition, they invite retaliation, which hurts domestic exporters.
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You are wrong. Orange jesus says the other country pays it.
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Funny)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/09... [cnn.com]
I am going to put tariffs on other countries coming into our country, and that has nothing to do with taxes to us. That is a tax on another country,”
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Funny)
He's 120% correct, just like when Mexico paid for his Great, Beautiful Border Wall.
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There's a simple solution to that which should make everyone happy, name it after all the bordering countries, Cuba, USA, Mexico. So the Gulf of C.U.M.
There, sorted.
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Only if there is somewhere else to go for those goods that is less expensive. That is almost never going to be from the US. Trump is vastly underestimating the cost to manufacture in the US and also the number of products the US will not be able to produce.
Did you notice this in The Fine Summary:
Chen said Acer is exploring manufacturing options outside China, including possible U.S. production.
That is exactly what Trump is hoping for, to have manufacturing return to the US. Will it work? Who knows, but before the threat of tariffs was anyone considering bringing manufacturing back to the US?
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China itself is moving away from a manufacturing economy. Why else do you think they're putting massive investments into Africa? https://www.reuters.com/world/... [reuters.com]
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Insightful)
"Exploring it" in a press release is nowhere near "building a billion dollar factory in the US"
That's a bullshit political play. In no way are they actually exploring it beyond "wow that will make us raise prices even more than the 10% tariff, and it will be years before the first laptop even rolls out, by which time the tariffs will probably be rescinded by a different Congress or a different President.
They aren't going to build shit. They'll let us pay more for the same laptop and announce revenue is up in their next quarterly filing.
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah ask Wisconsin how that went with Foxconn
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Interesting)
Only if there is somewhere else to go for those goods that is less expensive. That is almost never going to be from the US. Trump is vastly underestimating the cost to manufacture in the US and also the number of products the US will not be able to produce. Products that people take for granted and use every day.
I think people missed the part about reducing US salaries to Third work nation levels. /s
But yes, tariffs raise prices, just like inflation raises prices. And people will lose purchasing power. It used to be that Republcans understood that. Now it is somehow going to save the USA. I think they have it confused as some sort of sanction.
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And what happens if that particular good can't be sourced domestically and isn't an optional purchase?
And what happens while that particular good can't be sourced domestically to the price of that good?
And how long does it take to design, permit, finance, build, staff, and start operating a factory to make that good domestically?
These are all questions that nobody in favor of this economic suicide is asking, including you.
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And what happens if that particular good can't be sourced domestically and isn't an optional purchase?
And what happens while that particular good can't be sourced domestically to the price of that good?
And how long does it take to design, permit, finance, build, staff, and start operating a factory to make that good domestically?
These are all questions that nobody in favor of this economic suicide is asking, including you.
Of course it is a stupid move, protectionism and tariffs always has been. inflation, self imposed.
And once upon a time, republicans knew this.
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Informative)
And how long did it take for that to happen?
You seem to think that auto parts manufacturing factories just wink into existence at full staff and output because someone wants it to? It takes years and shitloads of investment to create something like that. Why would a business spend hundreds of millions of dollars or more to placate a lame duck and his feckless rubberstamp Congress, when the Congress is likely to change in 22 months and without a Constitutional amendment or extreme violation of constitutional law, Trump is gone in 3.9 years?
Didn't consider that, did you?
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If there is a domestic good that will now be price competitive due to the tariff- then that is true.
Of course, until that domestic good raises its price to match the tariffed import, which they will.
So no. They can, but realistically, they simply don't. They're just a tax on the poor and middle class at the end of all the equations.
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Interesting)
One minor point of order... this isn't hidden... it's there in plain sight.
This article highlights a big downside of punitive taxes, companies will take the piss and raise prices because you'll blame the tax. For years the global car industry got away with charging Australians more for new cars because they knew Australians would blame tax, despite the fact it would be cheaper to buy a BMW from the UK paying 20% VAT in the UK, ship it to Australia paying 10% GST and modify it to meet Australian Design Rules than it would be to buy one from BMW Australia... if only it were legal to do that of course (erm... it isn't in case you missed obvious sarcasm).... But Australians to this day still blame tax and BMW still get away with adding a huge mark up on the base price.
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Well yes, tariffs are just another form of taxation and ultimately one paid for by the consumer. One minor point of order... this isn't hidden... it's there in plain sight. This article highlights a big downside of punitive taxes, companies will take the piss and raise prices because you'll blame the tax.
Good point. Prices are stick as well when raised since it shows consumers will pay the higher price so once the tariff is gone, prices stay up, as long as sales and profit are on target at the higher price.
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it would be cheaper to buy a BMW from the UK paying 20% VAT in the UK, ship it to Australia paying 10% GST and modify it to meet Australian Design Rules than it would be to buy one from BMW Australia...
If buying a BMW for export in the UK, do you still pay the VAT? When I as an American buy goods to bring back home with me, I can apply for a VAT refund.
The biggest issue in this scenario is that Australia is an island, and the price of anything not manufactured or grown on the island costs more than it does off the island. BMW doesn't build automobiles in Australia [0], so they are more expensive than they otherwise would be if they were domestically produced. We have a BMW factory in Spartanburg, so certa
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Tariffs are not 'ultimately' paid by consumers but they are paid up front.
Which gets passed onto the distributor... which gets passed onto the store who passes it on to the consumer... Hence the word "ultimately" as the consumer is the end of the chain.
Also if there is no local option... it's not better. Tariffs never create local industry, in fact they barely protect it. One of the reasons Australia had car import restrictions was to protect the local car industry... and Industry you'll note, no longer exists despite extreme protectionism and massive government handouts. It n
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For the sake of argument, what are income taxes then?
I would rather pay taxes on behavior I can control, like deciding if I want to a new PC or to continue using my old one than pay more in taxes on earnings.
Taxing the import especially of finished consumer products is a better policy than the alternative. It makes things the lower rungs of our society struggle with most relatively cheaper. That would not be helpful but for the fact that Constitutionally we can't tax exports, yeah we can play dumb games w
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Informative)
Seems dubious. Poor people buy lots of imported things from China because the goods are cheap. And cutting income tax to justify tariffs as an alternative form of taxes makes no sense, since poor people don't pay income taxes.
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Interesting)
Finally it creates more opportunity to manufacture and do final assembly of things like laptops domestically.
That's a dream that isn't going to happen. For one thing, building the infrastructure for that will take more than four years, by which time Trump will be out. For another thing, no company is going to spend billions of dollars building a factory in the US knowing everyone working in that factory is going to want American wages rather than Chinese or Mexican. On the other hand, if they are able to hire Americans at those wages or they are able to avoid hiring Americans through automation then it isn't helping anyone anyway. There is no way for Americans to win here.
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Informative)
Oh well if they said it in a press release, that means it's guaranteed to happen like all those Foxconn jobs in Wisconsin, right?
How many times are you folks going to lap up the bullshit and call it chocolate pudding?
Planet Money (Score:2, Interesting)
Years ago Planet Money polled a dozen or so economists from across the political spectrum to see what policies they would all agree on. That is, policies everyone agrees would help the most people.
Eliminating income tax was one of the proposals, replacing it with a mix of tariffs, national sales or VAT tax, and wealth taxes.
So was eliminating the mortgage interest deduction, as well as most tax deductions, and eliminating corporate taxes altogether.
The point of the piece is how incredibly unpopular most of
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I would love to see this study.
eliminating corporate taxes altogether
I crafted a meme just for this statement. https://imgflip.com/i/9kn5do [imgflip.com]
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Most taxes cause deadweight loss...the addition of the tax causes prices to rise, so some increment of commerce that o
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Put simply, the taxes that have zero deadweight loss are taxes on economic rents. The classic and still relevant example is money paid to acquire or lease land, which is completely unproductive rent. No matter how much rent is paid for land, it won't cause the production of more land, so the rent is nonproductive (by definition). If you tax the rent, it drops the price of land, and the total cost to acquire land doesn't change at all, the tax just causes some of the rent to go to the government. In fact, there is an economic impact and that's in the reduction of speculative loss, because rents are typically associated with speculative loss and reducing rents actually helps the economy too.
That one is actually risky, because sellers or people leasing out land, absent any sort of rent control, are likely to increase the asking price rather quickly to ensure that they get enough money out of it to pay for property tax and other costs. This, in turn, will drive up the cost of housing, which makes it potentially a big negative impact on the working poor.
Capital gains taxes don't have that problem. You're not going to choose not to sell stocks when the value slides, so it isn't going to stop the
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You can control eating?
Do you know where a hell of a lot of produce comes from when you can't grow it in North America?
Good job missing the forest because this one particular tree looks special.
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:4, Interesting)
Pretend you are running a business that manufactures laptops for a second.
Here is the choice you are being presented with:
1. continue with the contract agreement you already have with a producer of your product and raise prices;
2. spend billions to build a factory in the US and staff it with US labor at far more expense than almost anywhere else in the world, so you can raise your prices anyway and be less competitive, and in 2 years when the Congress flips and your factory isn't even done yet, watch Congress toss this bullshit on the trash heap where it belongs and justify to your shareholders why you're cancelling a billion dollar factory you don't need.
Gee, which do you think they're going to choose?
Welcome to a global economy, and trying to apply economic theory last used in the 1890s. Airplanes and giant cargo vessels that can cross an ocean in a week are a thing. There's a reason why no G20 economy is based on tariffs, but it's clearly a mystery to you as to why.
Income taxes are progressive (Score:4, Insightful)
Very wealthy people on the other hand have control over their expenditures because the majority of their wealth doesn't have to be spent keeping themselves alive. They can spend it on investments or buying a property and renting it back to you at inflated prices.
This is why you will always see extremely wealthy people trying to convince you that sales tax is a good thing and income tax is a bad thing. It's because you pay more sales tax and less income tax, at least in a properly functioning progressive taxation system. The United States system definitely has issues but we still have the top 1% paying I think about 40% of income tax if only because they just have so much money that there's a limit to how much overseas offshore accounts can hide.
It's a trick. It's a trick to make you pay more to make the country function. If you don't want to live in a functioning country then I guess there's that but you're not going to have clean air and water or medicine or reliable access to food.
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Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes they can incentivize people to buy local. But the fact remains, tariffs raise prices, which for consumers is inflation. If local goods were priced competitively to the imports, people would already buy them. With the tariffs on, the imported good gets expensive, but the domestic good we want to incentivize is already expensive, and won't get cheaper just because of the tariff. Consumers end up paying more than before. I'd like to think that there still could be a benefit in that the money stays in the local economy and create local jobs, but the cynic in me says that increased prices simply means the richest business owners just get a bit richer.
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Tariffs, done properly, incentivize people to buy local, in this case local being the US.
Recent tariffs imposed on Canada by the US have certainly incentivized us Canadians to buy local!
Admittedly, some of that is motivated by Trusk's "51st state" bullshit - but a lot of it is motivated by tariffs, some of which aren't even in effect yet. So I think it's necessary to analyze tariffs in the context of both other political factors, and consumer behaviours in the countries on the receiving end of those tariffs.
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Yeah let me just walk out to the fields and pick some locally grown coffee beans or avocados, in the northeast.
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That's all great if you're dealing with spherical cows in a vacuum, to reference a physics joke. We're not.
What business is going to build a billion dollar factory and staff it with US labor at US labor prices when they can just raise their prices and wait out the administration?
Oops, none of the tariff hayseeds ever thought of that, did they?
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Tariffs can be argued as effective in surgical cases where domestic capacity exists.
Otherwise, you're merely harming both parties. You're hurting your own people by increasing the costs of goods, and you're hurting the foreign producer by reducing demand for their goods.
There has never been a good argument for blanket tariffs.
Dumb shit like that is what led to the eventual collapse of the British Empire, and it will likewise lead the collapse of support for this administration.
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I'm not a fan of tariffs myself as I believe that they are a finesse instrument in the hands of politicians that are typically brutes. However, here are some examples.
The Steel Tariffs of 2002 - In the early 2000s, cheap foreign steel imports (especially from China and Europe) were undercutting American steel producers, leading to bankruptcies and job losses. This allowed US steel industry jobs to temporarily stabilize while improving the financial health of the industry.
The Tariff of 1816 - After the War o
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I was highly disappointed in Canada and Mexico's suggestion of retaliatory tariffs last month. Retaliatory tariffs have to be the stupidest response to tariffs possible by countries affected by them. Retaliatory tariffs hurt a country's own citizens and businesses before they hurt the targeted country, especially when it's the US. Besides that, refusing to retaliate takes some of the wind out trump's bluster.
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I was highly disappointed in Canada and Mexico's suggestion of retaliatory tariffs last month. Retaliatory tariffs have to be the stupidest response to tariffs possible by countries affected by them. Retaliatory tariffs hurt a country's own citizens and businesses before they hurt the targeted country, especially when it's the US. Besides that, refusing to retaliate takes some of the wind out trump's bluster.
The purpose woukld be toi bring the US to end their tariffs, especially if they put export tariffs on goods such as steel, aluminum, and lumber; all of which are used extensively by US companies. They could also establish export limits to force companies to find higher cost replacements.
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But given the size of the US economy and the size of Canada's economy, such retaliatory tariffs would hurt Canada far more than the US. Thus they would not serve the purpose you state.
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But given the size of the US economy and the size of Canada's economy, such retaliatory tariffs would hurt Canada far more than the US. Thus they would not serve the purpose you state.
They could set targets that balance the impact on Canada’s economy with the impact on the US, and also develop export markets for the excess capacity. Cutting oil exports, for example , could severely impact fuel availability and price in the US, and hit US consumers directly at the pump where the impact would be visible
Trade wars are a bad thing because both sides suffer, but Canada can explore options outside of US sales, and other countries may be interested to stick it to Trump and the US by exte
Re:Tariffs are a hidden tax (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure that Canada and Mexico are just really broken up about your disappointment in them.
Anyone with a clue knew that declaring tariffs would start a trade war. Retaliatory tariffs are that trade war.
Don't ask questions that only have answers you don't like, and then get upset at the answer.
By the way, remember that Trump declared those tariffs saying that whoever negotiated our trade agreements with them is stupid and had no idea what they were doing. And then remember IT WAS HIM IN HIS FIRST TERM.
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Unlike the USA, Canada isn't going to be stupid about tariffs. For example, maybe a tariff on USA wine and liquor. Absolutely minimal harm to Canadian consumers, because we can get stuff just as good from other places.
We already get fruit and veg from around the world, dropping some stuff grown in the USA isn't going to make much difference.
Just because the USA decided to use blanket tariffs doesn't mean everyone else has to play the same incredibly stupid game. Unlike the USA, we will likely listen to e
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I'm old enough to remember the Trumpists around here saying that the tariffs were "just a negotiating tactic" and other complete bullshit they either heard from excuse-making propagandists or just made up out of whole cloth to suppress the easily observed reality being presented to them.
Enjoy spending more to get less, because that's what you fucking idiots voted for. Hopefully you'll start believing them when they tell you what they're going to do now, and stop dragging the rest of us into your stupid, wi
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It's not going to bring back jobs (Score:2, Informative)
On the other hand the tariffs are costing American jobs. The steel and aluminum tariffs especially hit hard. Steal and aluminum don't require a lot of employees so we are not really protecting jobs. On the other hand there's a ton of employees who have jobs that take steel and aluminum and turn them into somet
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he's gotten so many bribes
How do you bribe a billionaire?
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By giving him the love and adoration that his father never gave him.
And by promising they won't lose their billions.
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With the prospect of them being a bigger billionaire?
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How do you bribe a billionaire?
You start by recognizing that there is no limit to the greed of these billionaires. Just because they have tremendous amounts of wealth does not mean that they don't want to acquire more. In fact, the opposite.
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Do you think someone becomes a billionaire by not wanting more?
Fucking hell, did you give yourself a lobotomy, or is there some chemical you imbibe in that so thoroughly shuts down the critical thinking parts of your brain?
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Wrong question.
You should be asking: How do you bribe an over-leveraged real estate "billionaire" who owes a half-billion in fines and fees to the State of New York?
Answer: quite easily if you have a shitload of money. Hey wait, don't you think that might be why Musk is talking to the press in the Oval Office more than Trump is these days?
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On the other hand the tariffs are costing American jobs. The steel and aluminum tariffs especially hit hard. Steal and aluminum don't require a lot of employees so we are not really protecting jobs. On the other hand there's a ton of employees who have jobs that take steel and aluminum and turn them into something.
Indeed.
I read a very insightful essay a while ago that pointed out how economic development around the world closely tracks the historical development of industry.
When the industrial revolution started, what goods did it start with? Textiles. As developing nations pull themselves out of subsistence farming lifestyles, what sort of factories do they start with? Textiles.
From textiles, what comes next? Iron and steel, heavy industry that requires little finesse or highly educated workers.
And so on.
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But that's the reality you're swimming in- you're forming an opinion based on the outright dumbshit hot takes of a single dude.
If you watch the evolution of sources for the $50 million billion Hamas Taliban condoms, you can see that Musk isn't reporting shit- he's regurgitating shit from right wing nutballs via the telephone game.
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I made a claim, refused to back it up, and pointed out that since I made the general claim, and you claimed otherwise, all you need to do is find one single case to disprove me, while I have to provide a refutation of every single shitpost Musk has made regarding DOGE.
I do not need to back up a thing for it to be true.
If you want to disprove it- do so.
You're not very bright.
basis (Score:2)
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They might dictate the MSRP or minimum advertised pricing rules, but that's not the price Acer sells them to retail chains for. The declared value on an import form is not a retail price. But they have to justify the declared value, so the wholesale price does that fine.
They might have/create a US subsidiary for direct sales, so they sell to their subsidiary wholesale and the tariff only affects that price. But they can't make that wholesale price artificially low, I'm sure. I don't know the exact rules
Great depression (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm tired of hearing about how people who voted for Trump had good reasons for doing so. Everybody who voted for him is culpable for the coming economic and health calamities.
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Yes lets call it what it is. Ethnic cleansing so he can build a trump resort for Russian oligarchs to come visit.
Re:Great depression (Score:5, Insightful)
Up here in Canada we're trying to figure out how to disentangle from the United States, and it looks like Europe is interested as well.
Which is part of the reason, I'm sure, that Trump wants to annex us. The other being the US is so moronic and self-destructive in its water use that he imagines there's a big tap he can turn on north of the 49th parallel.
You see, Trump is a fucking moron, and so are his supporters... except the evil ones who are either religious nuts who want to kill all the queer people and enslave the women for their uteruses, and the bazillionaries who intend to become America's new feudal lords.
Quite a country you got there.
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Honestly he just wants to be king over more people. And he has a grudge against Trudeau because Trudeau didn't immediately bow down to him and also outmaneuvered him on the first round of tariffs. So he can either take over Canada and rule directly, or be de facto ruler by destroying Canada's economy and forcing the Canadian government to do whatever he asks of them.
Funny how his loyal supporters can see no contradictions in what he says. He says he wants to stop the flow of drugs into the US, and make Ca
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I struggle with people saying trump is a "moron." On the one hand when we resort to name calling, we descend to his level (which is what he wants). On the other hand, trump is extremely ignorant of how and why most things work (or have worked in the past), but he has a lot of people that surround him who have been bought and paid for and make his most outlandish and outrageous thoughts and utterances reality. Trump never says anything that is a joke. He's deadly serious, and his people make it happen, leg
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He knows the tariffs aren't warranted and the effects they will have on them and us.
I think you are wrong about this. Trump is the ultimate know-nothing person. In his mind "facts" are what he thinks of the world. He has no interest in objective reality.
He neither knows nor cares about the effects of the tariffs, except as the affect his popularity among the MAGA crowd.
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Up here in Canada we're trying to figure out how to disentangle from the United States, and it looks like Europe is interested as well.
I SO want us to join the EU! Also, this is a wake-up call to us to get our shit together on the military front.
Quite a country you got there.
Yeah, but in some sense we might be considered enablers. We put way too many of our eggs in the American basket, while ignoring the significant differences in outlook that should have had us forming stronger ties with, say, Scandinavia over the last six decades or so. It's not as though what's happening in the US wasn't both predictable, and predicted by some of us.
BTW, has anyone here considered t
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An easy solution to this is to stop bringing it up, and to stop doomscrolling before bed.
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An easy solution to this is to stop bringing it up, and to stop doomscrolling before bed.
It would be nice if the coming economic and health calamiities could be solved that easily, but I fear that is not so.
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I'm tired of hearing about how people who voted for Trump had good reasons for doing so. Everybody who voted for him is culpable for the coming economic and health calamities.
As much as I despise Trusk and the gutless boot-licking Republicans who know better but still enable them - see what I did there? - I also have some sympathy for some Trump voters.
People got sick of elites having so much power and money, yet the Democrats adopted and repeatedly doubled down on neo-Liberalism. If the Dems had nominated Bernie instead of Hilary way back when, there's a very good chance we wouldn't be caught up in the swirling shitstorm that is the Trusk presidency.
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Great Linux Starter Laptop (Score:3)
Logical (Score:2)
Re:Taiwan, the 'good' China. (Score:5, Informative)
He's not imposing tariffs on Russia so he's looking after his ally.
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Re:Taiwan, the 'good' China. (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps electing a 78 old year old man wasn't the hottest idea?
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Much like a lot of US companies, they are producing their products in China.
Re:Taiwan, the 'good' China. (Score:5, Interesting)
Because we elected a [choose one or more]
- fucking idiot
- Russian useful idiot
- Russian asset actively trying to destroy our country
- delusional egoist who surrounded himself with "advisors" that know how to stroke his ego to get him to do what they want, and are intent in enacting an agenda the majority do not want
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Yes, because only Acer is going to come to this decision after analyzing market conditions.
Keep wearing those red-hat blinders and keep thinking this is a singular data point.
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You are still looking at that interesting tree and missing the forest.
Acer is just the first to put out a press release on it. Every other manufacturer is having their own internal discussions and weighing options, but they won't come to different conclusions.
TL;DR: stop focusing on "Acer" and substitute "top-5 laptop manufacturer by volume [statista.com]" and see how this treats you. Acer has the same market share as Lenovo at 12%. Would you say the same about Lenovo? How about Microsoft, Samsung, and ASUS who have l
Re:Tariffs are not taxes on consumers (Score:4, Informative)
You, like the Velveeta Voldamoron, are an idiot. Or did you not, for example, note that two car companies (at least) are looking at shutdowns of their production line (lots of folks out of work) because of the cost of steel and aluminum?