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Printer Government United States

Proposed New York Law Could Require Background Checks Before Buying 3D Printers (news10.com) 190

Posted by EditorDavid from the just-to-be-safe dept.
A new law is being considered by New York's state legislature, reports a local news outlet. "if passed, will require anyone buying a 3D printer to pass a background check. If you can't legally own a firearm, you won't be able to buy one of these printers..." It is illegal to print most gun parts in New York. Attorney Greg Rinckey believes the proposal is an overreach. "I think this is also gonna face some constitutional problems. I mean, it really comes down to a legal parsing of what are you printing and at what point is it technically a firearm?"

[Ascent Fabrication owner Joe] Fairley thinks lawmakers should shift their focus on those partial gun kits that produce the metal firing components. Another possibility is to require printer manufacturers to install software that prevents gun parts from being printed. "They would need to agree on some algorithm to look at the part and say nope, that is a gun component, you're not allowed to print that part somehow," said Fairley. "But I feel like it would be extremely difficult to get to that point."

Proposed New York Law Could Require Background Checks Before Buying 3D Printers More | Reply

Proposed New York Law Could Require Background Checks Before Buying 3D Printers

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  • wow (Score:4, Insightful)

    by retrobunnies ( 6948924 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:22PM (#65099469)
    I'm all for gun laws but this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Is NYC going to outlaw woodworking as well cause you know... bows and arrows are dangerous. They are fighting against the tide.

    • I'm all for gun laws but this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Is NYC going to outlaw woodworking as well cause you know... bows and arrows are dangerous. They are fighting against the tide.

      Agreed. While this wouldn't apply to me as I (a) don't live in NY, (b) actually can pass a background check, and (c) don't own a 3D printer. But, in any case, I have zero interest in printing guns or gun parts and I imagine a lot of people wouldn't either. This seems like banning knitting needles on airplanes *just* 'cause someone might knit an Afghan...

    • Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:37PM (#65099513)

      Clearly they have no idea. For instance, do they realize that in WW2 simple firearms such as the Sten were often made using little more than a file and a hammer?

      Even the Chinese Norinco SKS rifles were often made in small villages with nothing but hand-tools.

      Why is it that brainless bureaucreats float to the top of the septic-tank of power?

      • You can make a shotgun by just going to home depot.

        https://www.offgridweb.com/sur... [offgridweb.com]

        Shit, prisoners have made functional firearms when they theoretically have access to none of that.

      • High school shop classes (Score:4, Informative)

        by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @08:21PM (#65099953)
        The US M3 "Grease Gun" may have been even simpler than the Sten. The M3 was used from WW2 to the 1970s. In the 70s armored vehicles sometimes had an M3 for personal defense if someone needed to exit the vehicle, it took up little space and was an improvement over a pistol.

        High school shop classes need to be banned to prevent kids from learning how to make such simple firearms. Oh wait, they kind of have done this.

      • This is not the way the world works!

        Look: I think this law about 3D printers is deeply, deeply stupid. But you comments are still off the mark.

        It's true that people can manufacture a gun a home with simple tools and materials if they have the skills. But you need skills to actually do that. Most people don't have a clue how to work sheet metal and won't invest the time and don't have the patience to develop the practical skills to to it. As a result, homemade firearms in the style of the STEN gun are simply

        • OK, you can print a gun, but not successfully with a low end FDM printer. I know metal powder printers can but those cost half a mil, and need real skill and space and specialist supplies to operate.

      • Why is it that brainless bureaucreats float to the top of the septic-tank of power?

        I'm going to venture that at least one contributing factor is voters.

    • It's arguably the fact that many people are very much not for gun laws that leads to these really stupid ones popping up.

      There are some designs out there that are genuinely 3d-printed guns that manage to preserve a reasonably impressive 'hurt the target'/'mangle your fingers' ratio even without needing to step up to $$$$ selective metal sintering printers; but a lot of the popular ones are more a homage to the fact that you can really half-ass the technically-the-gun-for-regulatory-purposes receiver and

    • I'm all for gun laws but this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Is NYC going to outlaw woodworking as well cause you know... bows and arrows are dangerous. They are fighting against the tide.

      This is a stark example of a stupid solution to look like you are doing something; while being a twofer: doesn’t address the real problem while also being unworkable. As pointed out, deal with the problem by regulating the metal parts that are needed and clearly used for guns.

      • Coming soon: Home depot, Lowe's, and Ace Hardware to require background checks prior to purchasing anything made of metal.

        • The government sets up checkpoints outside the shops.
          Ban the use of fire while you are at it. All heated food to be handed out at government distribution points. Only central heating distributed by water permitted.

      • As pointed out, deal with the problem by regulating the metal parts that are needed and clearly used for guns.

        Or, respect the Constitution by not doing this OR that.

        Not that New York is likely to consider that an option.

    • Re:wow (Score:5, Insightful)

      by StormReaver ( 59959 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @07:16PM (#65099819)

      This is why you should be against gun laws of any kind. When you give the government an inch, they will take a mile. An oppressive government's knee-jerk reaction is to ban, ban, ban. They have no intention of helping anyone, but a disarmed society is an easily controlled one.

    • I'm all for gun laws but this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. .

      Many of the gun laws are equally dumb, equally safety theatre, people are merely more familiar with 3D printers than guns.

      Universal background checks that look at criminal and mental health history, required safety training, and safe storage are all we really need to address most gun problems. That and end the war on drugs that drives most of the gun related violence.

      But 3D printers being part of the problem is classic. It's a spin on the plastic gun hysteria the anti guns folks created when Glocks fi

    • Re: wow (Score:2)

      by kenh ( 9056 )

      This will get shot down when the politicians realize how many 3D printers they've bought and sprinkled all around public schools in the name of "STEM"...

      Is there any spool of filament you can pass thru a 3D printer that can result in a part that could withstand the forces generated when you fire a round in your 3D printed gun?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by redback ( 15527 )

        The trick is that the legally controlled part of a gun is not the high precision high strength part. You can buy all those parts without any restrictions, and 3d print a lower receiver which is legally the gun.

    • Then ban most tools at Harbor Freight too.

      Some simple tools and a piece of iron is all you need aside from time.

      Aside from an AI voice it shows what can be done:
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=... [youtube.com]

    • Of course - a NY politician would absolutely propose such law to please their constitutions, to ban saws, lathes, carving tools, grinders, , sandpaper, etc. right after someone in New York murders a high profile target with a bow and arrow which they at somehow worked on with tools (perhaps they sharpened the arrows with a grinder). Welcome to knee-jerk-reaction politics. Anyone tried banning dihydrogen monoxide recently? It kills thousands of people every year, can be lethal if inhaled, is used in producti

  • Slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tough Love ( 215404 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:24PM (#65099475)

    Slippery slope. Next up: background check to buy a personal computer. Soon after: background check to flash your cell phone. Oh, and your encryption keys must be uploaded to a police repository. And you must allow the authorities to install a camera in your bedroom. For the time being you will be permitted to take a shit with your bathroom camera off.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 )

      It's not far beyond the imagination. New York, and California for that matter, already show a propensity towards behaving more like Europe and disregarding civil rights. When I went to defcon a few years ago, I learned how fun lockpicking is and went to get my own set of lockpicking tools and practice locks only to find out that all of that stuff is banned here in the Poeple's Republic of California. Even if you're somebody like me with an established history of being a security researcher.

      I have a 3d print

      • New York, and California for that matter, already show a propensity towards behaving more like Europe

        Except in Europe no one would shoot a health insurance CEO in the first place because... you know, universal healthcare.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by drnb ( 2434720 )

        Even if you're somebody like me with an established history of being a security researcher.

        Which is not a legally recognized thing in most cases (a hobby), unlike a locksmith that is licensed and bonded. Maybe a PhD and researching the field of computer security can pull it off, but even that is still iffy.

        If you ban 3d printers, only criminals will have 3d printers.

        It's not a ban, just a background check and registration, why would anyone honest safety oriented person oppose that? :-)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          If you ban 3d printers, only criminals will have 3d printers.

          It's not a ban, just a background check and registration, why would anyone honest safety oriented person oppose that? :-)

          I assume that last part is sarcasm, but it's worth pointing out that the first part is not entirely correct. It actually is a ban for anyone who can't pass the background check.

          Should people released from jail be permanently banned from owning 3D printers that they want to use for earning a living (e.g. by selling 3D-printed toys and tools and household goods on Etsy) merely because those 3D printers could also theoretically be used to make a gun that they aren't allowed to own?

          It seems to me that this pro

    • We have been fighting battles like this since the 1990s, and stuff like the CDA, attempted bans on any cryptography, The Clipper Chip, and many other things. And we are losing. Windows is definitely not a privacy-focused OS. Even MacOS leaves a huge forensic trail with all the hidden folders and files.

      Cell phones, even burners, here in the US, you have to provide a social security number for a SIM card, and even that is going away for e-SIMs where one had to beg and plead with the cell company to allow t

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

        "someone can buy some metal parts, a microcontroller board, some driver ICs, a power supply, some stepper motors, a small heating block, thermisters, and make something that will do the job,"

        Yeah, but this certainly cuts down on the number of people who can and will, doesn't it? You can't deny that the barrier for entry to making a ghost gun are incredibly much higher if you have to create the damn printer too, and create it with enough tolerance and precision to make your gun work...

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          You can't deny that the barrier for entry to making a ghost gun are incredibly much higher if you have to create the damn printer too, and create it with enough tolerance and precision to make your gun work...

          If by "ghost gun", you mean a gun that can't be traced by serial number, I'm pretty sure I could create one from a non-ghost gun with a Dremel or a file in about ten minutes. Or you can 3D print the parts in a few days or weeks. Your choice.

          This is like worrying about the risk of someone whose car and driver's license were confiscated because of a felony drunk driving conviction building a car from parts when they could far more easily steal one.

          When you solve the problem of gun theft, filing, and black-m

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

            Nothing that you have said refutes my point in the slightest.

            Nothing.

            It's all tangents.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              Nothing that you have said refutes my point in the slightest.

              On the one hand, yes, having to build it yourself would make it harder to make a ghost gun in that way. It would also make it harder to use the thing for any of the ten thousand other things that someone who can't legally own a gun might legitimately want to use it for, most of which are the sorts of things that would earn them money and potentially make them less likely to turn back to a life of crime, again, making it a stupid law.

              But what I said points out that what you said at the end there is complete

    • Next up: background check to buy a personal computer.

      Wait until politicians realize that children can access porn from an Internet-connected computer, and the thing that will really help the kids is universal high-speed broadband internet access in the home...

  • How about check before buying ammunition? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:28PM (#65099489)
    You can't 3D print that.

    • You can't 3D print it, but you can make your own ammo, too.

    • You can't 3D print any of the critical parts. Well, you can, but it blows up in your face after the first shot. i get so tired on hearing how you can 3d print magic guns from clueless democrats.

      • > Well, you can, but it blows up in your face after the first shot.

        I'm sorry, but that is simply not correct, and hasn't been for some years now.

        People are even making rifled barrels using a 3D-printed mandrel.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by drnb ( 2434720 )

          People are even making rifled barrels using a 3D-printed mandrel.

          Anything beyond a .22 short? Reliably?

        • People are even making rifled barrels using a 3D-printed mandrel.

          Explain.

          What are these gunsmiths 3D printing their mandrels with? What are the barrels they are 3D printing made of?

          I once saw a movie where a character (John Malchovic) created a ceramic gun that was undetectable by a metal detector - that's something to worry about.

          A gun without a serial number isn't really that big a threat - we can't tie a slug pulled from a body with a particular gun, and the VAST, VAST majority of gun violence is committed with guns that have serial numbers.

          • What are these gunsmiths 3D printing their mandrels with?

            Probably PLA because it's easy to print. I imagine the GP is talking about cutting rifling grooves with ECM.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      Need a permit to collect your own piss? (black powder)

  • In the UK any object counts as a weapon if it is used as a weapon. Likewise, with the onset of 3D printing it will be virtually impossible to police printed content. After all, how would you reliably assess if something is a weapon or not? Shape? You can make a gun that looks like a brick. Guns have springs, locks and trigger mechanisms... but so do a million benign objects. Then what about blades? The government needs to accept that with everyone having fairly cheap access to industrial-grade manufacturing

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DrXym ( 126579 )

      UK law isn't that ridiculous. They certainly have offensive weapons laws that cover items whose purpose is purely offensive - flick knives, knuckle dusters and such. But you can buy knives with a utilitarian purpose and you can even carry knives if they meet certain standards and if you have good reason. e.g. you can carry a penknife if the blade is non locking and less than certain length.

      And no I don't think the UK would ban 3d printers because it is stupid, unpoliceable and pointless. It's easy to make w

  • It seems really insensitive to bring this bill back so soon after the previously ill-understood role of 3d-printing in US medical cost containment was publicly demonstrated; to bipartisan popular acclaim.

  • Because it is easy for AI to identify gun parts (Score:3)

    by kamakazi ( 74641 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:41PM (#65099529)

    At its core a gun is a spring release mechanism, which are so common and varied in modern devices that an attempt to prevent home designed firearms is laughably impossible.
    In the 70s gang bangers were making .22 zip guns out of car antennas and door latches.
    Even though guns have a deep mythos, at least in the USA, they are really simple machines.
    To attempt to outlaw the knowledge and tools to make a functional firearm would require regulating power drills and files and pieces of metal, as well as attaching security monitoring to anyone who took metal shop in high school, and definitely anyone with college level machine tool training.
    Controlling the manufacture of firearms at the home built level is not a practical goal of any government, nor is it achievable in any developed economy. The only barrier for an individual is the level of effort required to obtain the skills necessary. With the easy availability of low priced machine tools the financial barrier doesn't really exist.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jonwil ( 467024 )

      I can go to Google, find a picture of a gun, open it, hit "print" and my inkjet printer will spit out a nice picture of that gun.

      The fear around 3D printed guns is the belief (rightly or wrongly) that its just as easy to download a 3D print file of a gun, open it, hit "print" and get a fully working gun without needing any manufacturing or metal working or machining skills and that its as easy as printing a picture of a gun.

      • Honestly, it's not a bad idea to encourage that belief, so the dumbest of murderous printer owners end up in hospital before they hurt anyone else.

      • I can go to Google, find a picture of a gun, open it, hit "print" and my inkjet printer will spit out a nice picture of that gun. The fear around 3D printed guns is the belief (rightly or wrongly) that its just as easy to download a 3D print file of a gun, open it, hit "print" and get a fully working gun without needing any manufacturing or metal working or machining skills and that its as easy as printing a picture of a gun.

        It you have an Intel Ultra AI CPU then you can 3D print a working gun from the googled picture. :-)

  • Off the top of my head:

    • Are the parts to make a 3D printer also going to need a background check? If not, you just get the parts and construct it yourself.
    • Are you going to search people at the boarder for 3D printers? Otherwise you just buy it in another state and bring it in.
    • People will just steal 3D printers if they cant get them legally. If schools have them, or manufacturing sites have them, they will become the target of theft.
    • Better yet, just use the p

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ichthus ( 72442 )
      I'm sure after this bill goes through a few refinements, they'll only require the background check for purchasing a specific portion of a 3d printer -- probably the hot end/extruder. This would be akin to the way AR-15s are controlled. You can buy every part of the gun without any kind of background check -- indeed, even ordering it online for delivery, except the lower receiver.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        I'm sure after this bill goes through a few refinements, they'll only require the background check for purchasing a specific portion of a 3d printer -- probably the hot end/extruder. This would be akin to the way AR-15s are controlled. You can buy every part of the gun without any kind of background check -- indeed, even ordering it online for delivery, except the lower receiver.

        Perfect. So they'll just put a CNC mill on the same hardware, and now they can make a much better ghost gun. Wait, you mean the goal is to have fewer ghost guns? Well, then that definitely won't work. :-D

    • Sure you can get the parts, but only if you agree to wear a hardened steel GPS ankle bracelet.

  • We've forgotten (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sizzlinkitty ( 1199479 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @04:51PM (#65099545)

    The government works for us and it's time they remember that.

    Jenifer Rajkumar sponsored this overstep in government regulation. I think it's time she is reminded that she works for the American people as she will be up for re-election soon.

  • Well they should also check this (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @05:14PM (#65099591) Journal

    Background checks before buying a 3D printer is hands down the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in a long, long time.

    They should also check that you're old enough to drink if you by a set of cups. After all, you could drink alcohol from those cups.

    Maybe they should make you pass a background check before you buy tools or a drill because god knows what you could do with those- build bombs, break into homes, just so many possible crimes you could commit with them, right?

    Same thing for computers and phones, you can commit a LOT of crimes with those.

  • ...in the olympics of stupid ideas
    3D printers are used for a LOT of things besides guns, guns are a tiny, tiny minority of their use
    Also, lathes, milling machines, even hand files can be used to make guns
    Do they want to ban all tools?

  • "They would need to agree on some algorithm to look at the part and say nope, that is a gun component, you're not allowed to print that part somehow," said Fairley. "But I feel like it would be extremely difficult to get to that point."

    Thank goodness no two parts from different things ever look the same.

    I print a tube...is it a tube or a gun barrel or is it a hamster feeder or a drain for my sink or a brace for my gaming setup or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or...

    N

  • Are idiots. Your mileage will not vary.

  • Ludicrous (Score:3)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @06:06PM (#65099715)

    It's trivial to obtain a 3d printer, either whole, or as a kit, or in parts. It is impossible to police. Why are they even doing it? How many 3d printed parts are anything but innocuous? Is the ATF going to classify a printer as a hotend like they define a gun as a receiver? And why are they even doing it? After all, I could use a regular 2d printer to print checks, or banknotes, or fake ids but it would be monumentally fucking stupid to ban inkjets for that reason.

    A better & saner approach would be to make it illegal to manufacture, sell, publish, disseminate whatever 3d parts that they don't want made - gun parts, bomb casings or whatever and then prosecute those who do. Not only could they prosecute people doing it with printers, but also with injection moulding, die casting, CNC or whatever.

    • Politicians are driven by a desire to get publicity by addressing visibly the fears of the population. This fits the bill - as does the equally farcical attempts to enforce age confirmation on porn sites, of course.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DrXym ( 126579 )

        I think in this case it's just stupid and easy to highlight. Anyone earnestly interested in manufacturing functioning guns (that don't explode in their faces) could buy stuff in the hardware store and do it. e.g. some nut finds a box of shotgun shells would have no trouble making a slamfire gun out of piping or a booby trap with block of wood, rubber bands and some bits of nail.

        Or if they were super serious about making an actual gun, then just buy a lathe and a bending press, maybe a CNC and do it that way

  • We have very robust restrictions on guns and none on 3D printers that I'm aware of. Yet we don't seem to have the problem that this proposal is seeking to address.

  • this is just silly (Score:4, Informative)

    by Dusanyu ( 675778 ) on Saturday January 18, 2025 @06:38PM (#65099781)
    does anyone read history in New York? or have they heard of Philip Andrew Luty? In the 90's as a protest of gun laws in the UK published a book called Expedient homemade firearms that was basically plans for a home made 9mm Submachine gun that anyone could make with a few basic hand tools and scrap metal are we going to ban Metal saws and files next? the fact of the mater is if someone wants a gun they can and will be abler to get there hands on a gun even if its a medieval style hand cannon made out of a 2x4, plumbing parts and, stump blasting powder or the ingredients to make black powder is as easy as peeing in a bucket and letting it get stale. baring firearms a kitchen Kinfe is an great tool for violence or even a pointed stick . Going after tools is not the way to treat the violence problem. because there will always be a way to easily kill another man figuring out what makes people do violent things and getting them the help they need will
  • ... been sick?" - "Yes." - "No 3D printers for you..."

  • CNC milling machines and lathes while your at it. Don't forget 3D printing services. The cat is out of the bag on 3D printers, you can't stop someone from acquireing one even if you do enact laws. Someone who is malicious won't care about laws and can easily circumvent them. But if it makes you feel good, New York, then do it.

  • 3D printers are assembled from parts, like guns. The ATF attempted to make gun parts restricted, but that is being litigated.

    Since 3d printers are more generalized in their applicability, there is no legitimate case for preventing access to the parts required to assemble one.

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