Solar Power Brought by Volunteers to Hurricane Helene's Disaster Zone (apnews.com) 38
Bobby Renfro spent $1,200 to buy a gas-powered electricity generator for a community resource hub he set up in a former church near hurricane-struck Asheville, North Carolina. He's spending thousands more on fuel, reports the Associated Press — though he's just one of many. Right now over 500,000 people are without power in Florida, according to the PowerOutage.us project — with more than 9,000 in Georgia, and over 17,000 in North Carolina"
Without it, they can't keep medicines cold or power medical equipment or pump well water. They can't recharge their phones or apply for federal disaster aid... Residents who can get their hands on gas and diesel-powered generators are depending on them, but that is not easy. Fuel is expensive and can be a long drive away. Generator fumes pollute and can be deadly. Small home generators are designed to run for hours or days, not weeks and months.
Now, more help is arriving. Renfro received a new power source this week, one that will be cleaner, quieter and free to operate. Volunteers with the nonprofit Footprint Project and a local solar installation company delivered a solar generator with six 245-watt solar panels, a 24-volt battery and an AC power inverter. The panels now rest on a grassy hill outside the community building. Renfro hopes his community can draw some comfort and security, "seeing and knowing that they have a little electricity." The Footprint Project is scaling up its response to this disaster with sustainable mobile infrastructure. It has deployed dozens of larger solar microgrids, solar generators and machines that can pull water from the air to 33 sites so far, along with dozens of smaller portable batteries.
With donations from solar equipment and installation companies as well as equipment purchased through donated funds, the nonprofit is sourcing hundreds more small batteries and dozens of other larger systems and even industrial-scale solar generators known as "Dragon Wings."
Now, more help is arriving. Renfro received a new power source this week, one that will be cleaner, quieter and free to operate. Volunteers with the nonprofit Footprint Project and a local solar installation company delivered a solar generator with six 245-watt solar panels, a 24-volt battery and an AC power inverter. The panels now rest on a grassy hill outside the community building. Renfro hopes his community can draw some comfort and security, "seeing and knowing that they have a little electricity." The Footprint Project is scaling up its response to this disaster with sustainable mobile infrastructure. It has deployed dozens of larger solar microgrids, solar generators and machines that can pull water from the air to 33 sites so far, along with dozens of smaller portable batteries.
With donations from solar equipment and installation companies as well as equipment purchased through donated funds, the nonprofit is sourcing hundreds more small batteries and dozens of other larger systems and even industrial-scale solar generators known as "Dragon Wings."
Better than nothing (Score:2)
The cost and availability of generators must really be an issue if the only alternative is 1.5kWh of 24VDC solar. Just enough to keep the lights on (literally).
I think itâ(TM)s a good idea, if nothing else, like the kind of thing you would find powering a bathroom on a campground. Powering water pumps and LEDs for example. There are a lot of scenarios where you need a little bit of electricity without having to feed it a constant amount of fuel.
The hyperbole about generators in the article is stupid, h
Re:Better than nothing (Score:4, Interesting)
I've lived in places without power for many months in freezing climates where there was no plumbing and, honestly, it wasn't hard if you are half-way prepared, which florida residents ought to be by now. In fact it was quite an enjoyable way of life. What do you need generators for that is critical to survival? You can charge up your phone with a tiny solar panel, you can hand-filter water if you're dumb enough to ride out a hurricane without storing any.
Re:Better than nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
This is in North Carolina. How common are hurricanes up that way? How reasonable is it to expect people up that way to be prepared for a hurricane?
Re:Better than nothing (Score:5, Interesting)
They werent prepared, because they are poor areas up there mixed with rich areas. Ironically I was looking at houses up in the mountains because of the likelihood of this happening was low. But decided not to because infrastructure was weak, which is what we are seeing now. The more remote a location from sources of water, electricity, and internet the worse it will be during a catastrophic event, not even talking about healthcare access.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Why don't we see any articles about other emergency sources of power?
Because you didn't actually look for them.
helene generators [google.com]
milton generators [google.com]
Re: (Score:2)
If you're up in the hills, though, you're probably not flooded, so you can have stored water. A few IBC totes' worth would keep you going for days or weeks. On the other hand, your house could landslide away, or be slid upon, so you do have to choose a well-sited property.
For floods, you're better off in the hills, for quakes you're better off in town, for fires nothing will help except for defensible space which can be hard to come by in either location. Tornadoes are unpredictable wind-wise, but often com
Re:Better than nothing (Score:5, Informative)
According to this random website NC is the 3rd most hurricane hit state in the US. I wouldn't have guessed that, I would have thought like 12th or something. The 1st is FLA and the 2nd is Texas apperently. Why NC is hit by more hurricanes than LA? It doesn't make sense but apperently its the case. It might be that NC isn't known for hurricanes because they aren't as big as the ones that hit FLA?
https://universalproperty.com/... [universalproperty.com]
This site says its the 4th most hit
https://www.finder.com/home-in... [finder.com]
Re: (Score:3)
North Carolina has a lot of coast, and people who live on and near the coast are reasonably prepared for hurricanes. Those hurricanes don't usually dump feet of rain in the mountains, though.
Re: (Score:2)
NC sticks its butt into the Atlantic Ocean and frequently gets spanked. Take a look at the current patterns and you can see why most anything moving up the east coast of the US is going to run smack dab into NC.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/ocean/primary/waves/overlay=significant_wave_height/orthographic=-75.36,37.58,2280 [nullschool.net]
Re: Better than nothing (Score:2)
Re:Better than nothing (Score:4, Interesting)
I honestly don't know, but generators are put in the garage or the yard which are both often prone to flood, and I've seen solar panals take amazing beatings by the wind. Probably, depending on where your house is the generator fairs better sometimes and other times the solar does, If you're smart and tuck it away it will obiously be 100% reliable but my point is that you don't really need either to survive. Unless you live in an iron lung or something.
Re: (Score:2)
...my point is that you don't really need either to survive. Unless you live in an iron lung or something.
I agree...and if you do have medical needs that are dependent on electricity.....you damn well better have a backup solution regardless of where you live, well in advance of any emergencies.
Re: (Score:2)
Most people that have solar on the roof are just setup for grid tie, so when the power goes out, their system shuts down as well, so they're just as in the dark as those around them. Solar + battery that can run independent of the grid is far rarer due to the increased install cost and concern over batter replacement costs down the line.
Re: (Score:2)
Also on my local Nextdoor group there were dozens of people (this is in FL) who were panicking and looking for small engine repair because they hadn't fired up their generators in 2-4 years and they didn't work now or their gas went bad (many had to remind them gas does go bad, you can't just leave it in a can for 3 years and expect it to be fine).
A couple ran their gas out becasue they went and bought that 9000W unit to run their fridge and electronics not realizing that those cheaper units put out 9000W r
Re: (Score:3)
Thats fine if your fit, young and well prepared. What happens if your elderly and have kidney disease and need access to regular dialysis. This is not as uncommon as you might imagine thanks to the american food manufacturers habit of putting hfcs and sugar in almost everything with 1 in 7 americans facing kidney disease. Without dialysis you die. Without refrigeration, diabetics start to die cos insulin doesnt last long outside of a fridge. Eventually food turns rotten and people start shitting themselves
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, as long as you are not reliant upon powered health care equipment.
Re: Better than nothing (Score:2)
Keeping medicine cold, as noted in the article? Oh, and the story is about NC, GA, and TN - the residents of Asheville, NC, for example, aren't "used to hurricanes" being hundreds and hubdreds of mikes inland from the gulf or ocean, but hey, thanks for dismissing their concerns.
So they generate about 1.5KW of electricity for what, 12 hours a day? And the other 12 hours is covered by a battery of what capacity? If it was 18-20 KW capacity they would have 1.5 KW available 24 hours a day, but I doubt the donat
You still have to give solar panels fuel (Score:2, Interesting)
The fuel just happens to be the sun...which isn't much help at night, or on cloudy days.
It's an emergency situation, in a disaster area...I assure you, the people suffering aren't overly concerned about environmental considerations. That 1470W of capacity isn't going to go too far when people start using inverters to bring it up to 120v, only to rectify it to DC to charge cellphones and run laptops. (yes, I know there are efficient ways of doing that...but, do you HONESTLY think a bunch of rando's in an e
Re:You still have to give solar panels fuel (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll take two MWh of sunlight to go then so I can use it at night, you idiot. What part of fuel not being available, at least not easily, small generators not being designed for continuous operation and being loud when they are working strikes you as particularly tree-hugging reasons? Face it, solar paired with some batteries is the practical solution. Do you know how woefully inefficient generators are for small loads? Trying to frame this scenario as a failure of solar is insane. Solar+battery is about the only solution that can handle this load very smoothly and efficiently. And again, the inefficiency of generators isn't an environmental concern: It means you have to get more fuel, which is already scarce. They use solar because IT WORKS.
Re: (Score:3)
Many people are not smart enough to go beyond a knee-jerk reaction when they see something they do not like. The moron you answered to is a good example.
Re: (Score:2)
The only number in my comment is "two MWh of sunlight to go", and I sincerely hoped that no further explanation was needed. It was a response to the asinine redefinition of fuel so that solar panels can need some, because apparently that moron feels threatened by a power source that doesn't burn stuff.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It should in the sunshine state for sure. Though, now past equinox we are less than half the day of daylight. Prob 10 good hrs of production. And youre right, its the supply issue thats the most critical. Tide has those laundry trucks that i think generate power from the diesel engines. If they dis solar thermal water heaters people could shower during the day when the sun is bright. That will leave the load for the batteries for environmental controls since its humid AF in Florida.
Re: (Score:1)
> I'll take two MWh of sunlight to go then so I can use it at night,
2 MWh is more than the storage capacity of 20 Tesla Model S batteries (the Plaid tops out at 95 kwh). And charging them takes a lot of panel area: assuming 10 hours of continuous 1kWh/m2 insolation, it takes some 600 m2 of 33% efficient panels to harvest that much. That's a football field sized installation.
TFA mentioned a modest 1.5 kW panel with a 24V battery, probably capable of storing a few kWh (say 3 if it's a 120 Ah battery).
Re: (Score:1)
You could not have missed the point harder.
Re: (Score:2)
Arguably the best thing is to have both solar and a nice quiet inverter generator, and a way to use it to charge your battery bank in case the solar is inadequate. Either way though you need batteries, and batteries are expensive enough that you should have at least SOME solar panels paired with them in most locations.
Solar is great, I am super pro-solar, but being prepared for all eventualities is great too. A nice reliable-brand dual fuel (gasoline and propane) generator is hugely valuable in a crisis.
Re: (Score:2)
Practical is WTF happens to work when the excrement happens to hit fan.
Generators have obvious problems, they won't be reliable unless their are maintained, they may be damaged or destroyed by the same flooding as took out the utility power, they require fuel, small ones really cant run 24x7 for a week or more which may be required.
Guess what solar has many of the same problems and some unique ones. Large arrays of panels maybe damaged or destroyed either directly if they are in some fixed installation or
Re: (Score:1)
You can buy ready made suitcases, containing a battery, several AC wall plugs and half a dozen USB ports. :)
Then you only decide how many panels you need.
You buy on Alibaba for about 1000 bucks, if there was not a trade war
Re:You still have to give solar panels fuel (Score:5, Funny)
As a Canadian with relatives in a couple of southern states, I can't help but respond to your remark that, "It's the US...not Haiti."
You raise an excellent point. If some of those Red States south of the Mason-Dixon Line work long and hard for a couple of generations, they may get up to Haiti's standards of education and health care.
Re: (Score:3)
1470W over 8 hours (conservative estimate) is 11.76KWh. Even accounting for inefficiencies in the panel and other losses, that's more than enough.
My entire house only uses 7KWh a day, and that's with no special provisions to do anything energy-saving (and includes all my appliances, washing and drying clothes, etc.).
Even through an inefficient conversion, even through non-ideal weather, even through inversion and then transforming back down to 5V... that's more than enough to keep your phone charged for ov
Misnomer in power outage reporting (Score:2)
FEMA being threatened by "law and order" group (Score:3)
At a time when every ounce of help is needed. those professing to want "law and order" are now threatening FEMA employees who, *checks notes*, are helping people devastated by Helene.
Multiple reports [newsweek.com] are coming in from North Carolina [cnn.com] of roving bands of "militias" threatening FEMA employees for doing their jobs.
An official with the U.S. Forest Service, which is supporting recovery efforts along with the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), sent an message to numerous federal agencies at around 1 p.m. on Saturday warning that FEMA has advised all federal responders in Rutherford County to "stand down and evacuate the county immediately," The Washington Post reported.
National Guard troops had come across two trucks of "armed militia saying they were out hunting FEMA," the email said. "The IMTs [incident management teams] have been notified and are coordinating the evacuation of all assigned personnel in that county."
We all know who is behind this. No point sugar coating it. The convited felon is doing his best to kill Americans then blame it on someone else.
Can't charge their phones? (Score:2)