HP Wants You To Pay Up To $36/Month To Rent a Printer That It Monitors (arstechnica.com) 138
HP launched a subscription service this week that rents people a printer, allots them a specific amount of printed pages, and sends them ink for a monthly fee. From a report: HP is framing its service as a way to simplify printing for families and small businesses, but the deal also comes with monitoring and a years-long commitment. Prices range from $6.99 per month for a plan that includes an HP Envy printer (the current model is the 6020e) and 20 printed pages. The priciest plan includes an HP OfficeJet Pro rental and 700 printed pages for $35.99 per month.
HP says it will provide subscribers with ink deliveries when they're running low and 24/7 support via phone or chat (although it's dubious how much you want to rely on HP support). Support doesn't include on or offsite repairs or part replacements. The subscription's terms of service (TOS) note that the service doesn't cover damage or failure caused by, unsurprisingly, "use of non-HP media supplies and other products" or if you use your printer more than what your plan calls for. HP calls this an All-In-Plan; if you subscribe, the tech company will be all in on your printing activities. One of the most perturbing aspects of the subscription plan is that it requires subscribers to keep their printers connected to the Internet. HP seeks two-year subscriber commitments, charging up to $270 plus taxes if canceled early.
HP says it will provide subscribers with ink deliveries when they're running low and 24/7 support via phone or chat (although it's dubious how much you want to rely on HP support). Support doesn't include on or offsite repairs or part replacements. The subscription's terms of service (TOS) note that the service doesn't cover damage or failure caused by, unsurprisingly, "use of non-HP media supplies and other products" or if you use your printer more than what your plan calls for. HP calls this an All-In-Plan; if you subscribe, the tech company will be all in on your printing activities. One of the most perturbing aspects of the subscription plan is that it requires subscribers to keep their printers connected to the Internet. HP seeks two-year subscriber commitments, charging up to $270 plus taxes if canceled early.
do you get an new printer after 2 years for free? (Score:3)
do you get an new printer after 2 years for free?
Re:do you get an new printer after 2 years for fre (Score:5, Insightful)
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Is this limited to the printer only though? A place I used to work out moved from printer ownership to printer support and rental. I don't know what the numbers were but for them that meant that the manufacturer owned all problems relating to the printer.
If HP expect you to subscribe to this and you own the problems, just they send you monthly ink and a stamper, then this is pretty dumb. That better be a printer that can duplex, staple, bind, job collate and give you magazine quality photo prints. Oh, and n
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Clearly, no SLA for this fairly expensive amount.
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Only suitable for people to sign their enemies up for then.
This is probably some poor sod's marching orders (Score:2)
Re: do you get an new printer after 2 years for fr (Score:2)
People buy $20 and $40 replacement plans on $15 and $30 gadgets
Re:do you get an new printer after 2 years for fre (Score:5, Informative)
Re:do you get an new printer after 2 years for fre (Score:5, Funny)
Dont trust HP. Buy anything else, including a box of crayons, because it's superior and far more reliable.
Fixed that for you.
Re: do you get an new printer after 2 years for fr (Score:3)
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Don't worry, if this is profitable I am sure HP will offer schools and parents a crayon subscription, just as soon as they can work out how to DRM them so you can't let other people use your crayons without a subscription.
Re:do you get an new printer after 2 years for fre (Score:5, Funny)
And if you try to mix their crayons with another brand, your coloring book with catch on fire and explode.
Re:do you get an new printer after 2 years for fre (Score:5, Informative)
It's even worse than that.
The cheapest plan they give you is $7/mo and only includes 20 printed pages, otherwise known as $0.35 a page not including the paper, which you still have to buy. That's more expensive than just having it printed at FedEx Office, on far better equipment and provided paper.
This is an absolutely shitty value proposition.
If you do this (Score:2)
You will absolutely get what you deserve.
HP will price this to be less then buying an print (Score:2)
HP will price this to be less then buying an printer + ink with no sub
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Why would HP decide to make less money?
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make the sub deal look good and they can say cheaper then buying one. While it's really only $5-10 less then not renting one.
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Why would HP decide to make less money?
They wouldn't. They're setting up a long con here - a bait and switch that only occurs after enough Judas-like suckers have bought in that the entire market converts to a rental model of business and people can no longer buy printers and supplies.
If you think I'm alarmist or a conspiracy, look carefully at recent trends before you call me crazy. EVERY major corporation is doing its best to make sure that we proles will be able to own essentially nothing but will have to rent everything - software, printers,
Re:HP will price this to be less then buying an pr (Score:5, Informative)
>people who buy 'smart' TV's, net-connected appliances, etc.
We just ordered two fridge freezers, the sort that does one thing only but can switch between being a fridge or a freezer. The first is being delivered today (hooray for WFH).
The ocean of shit that passes for refrigeration these days is alarming. Finding models that do one thing, don't call home and don't come with 'commercial' pricing is not completely trivial.
Re: HP will price this to be less then buying an p (Score:2)
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They wouldn't.
What they're expecting (and they're right) is that you only buy ink when you've printed enough to use up the old cartridge, or when it's sat long enough to dry out.
With a subscription, you buy ink every month, whether you need it or not.
MBAs love steady, fixed revenue, and worship at the temple of it.
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The summary mentions that repairs aren't included in the plan, but the HP site promises that inoperable printers are replaced the next business day free of charge.
Re:HP will price this to be less then buying an pr (Score:4, Interesting)
Coming soon: Every 100th page will be an advertisement tailored to you based on the documents you've been printing (which are sent to HP for "quality assurance monitoring and user experience improvements" - check your EULA) and your geolocation data.
=Smidge=
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And, of course, to make sure you are not printing any bad words or questionable opinions with an HP printer.
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And it will count as one of the 20 pages per month you're allowed. Or maybe it will count as two.
what is the overage fee and can you print pure bla (Score:2)
what is the overage fee and can you print pure black pages and HP will foot the bill for all of ink? or is their an ink usage max on top of the page max?
Brother HL-L2405W (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the current rock-solid Brother double-sided monochrome laser printer [amazon.com] for $120. No DRM and the toner carts. last for ages. Mine sits silently, wirelessly until called for, from Linux and Windows.
The best buy. (And no more inkjets for me!)
Re:Brother HL-L2405W (Score:5, Informative)
Oops. That link is to a single-sided printer. This is the *double-sided* printer I actually use [amazon.com], for many years, still on my original toner cartridge, (web developers don't print).
Re:Brother HL-L2405W (Score:4, Informative)
I have the similar looking HL-L6200DW. It's been going for many many years with no problems and infrequent ink cartridge replacements.
https://www.amazon.com/Brother... [amazon.com]
Re:Brother HL-L2405W (Score:5, Informative)
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Brother printers/scanners also have shortcomings, but I'll take them any day of the week over HP, also on weekends and holidays. (Among other things Brother software is awful, and at least my printer likes to call home.)
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I just looked over at my printer to see what it is... it's a 2340dw. It survived sailing around Mexico on my boat for 8 years, and now it's in my apartment in Puerto Vallarta. No monthly expense, bought it for around $100usd in 2015 or so.
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My Brother HL-2030 is 19 years old and is still working after all those years with pirate toner and drum
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That printer says "refresh EZ print subscription ready". So I searched for that and it landed me on this page:
https://www.brother-usa.com/su... [brother-usa.com]
Looks like HP isn't the only company doing the subscription for printers.
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I doubt there's a brand of printer out there that can't be leased. That's a pretty normal business practice, and it certainly has its advantages. Unusual to see a lease program aimed at home users, but that makes it a growth market.
What makes HP exceptional(ly bad) is that this is a shitty lease.
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Similar. My Brother printer has been no bother for a decade.
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A laser printer because previous inkjet printers would dry out.
Both the laser printers require expensive (original) cartridges but you can get them cheap from 3rd party makers and they last a loooong time.
Let me put it in understandable language:
FUCK YOU HP!
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Yeah, gonig with a brother laser that lasts ages even with third-party toner you'll be paying fractions of pennies a page, rather than 3.5 cents a page on HPs 'best' plan
Re: Brother HL-L2405W (Score:5, Informative)
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Hear hear. I have a Brother HL-3140CW color laser that I bought for $20 including all of the (large) toners that were at 95% and last ~2000 pages. Previously I've had different dumped office laser printers as well, and a Canon inkjet printer because I wanted the occasional nice photo print. No more though, it's cheaper to just order those online for the few times I need it since the damn ink always dries out. The printer had the nerve to have its head die and refuse to do any of its other functions (like sc
Why would anyone do this? (Score:2)
I'm genuinely curious - how many people print at home on a regular basis anymore? We have a (laser) printer, but I doubt it gets used more than once a month... if even that.
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Define "regularly" ?
I print at least something every month. Is that regular enougj?
Most recent thing I printed was an envelope. I needed to send a check sent to us by Fidelity to Vanguard, to roll over my wife's former 401K plan into her IRA. For some reason, Fidelity wouldn't just fucking sure it directly to Vanguard.
Re: Why would anyone do this? (Score:2)
For some reason? You know the answer. The same reason you can sign up for anything in a nanosecond but have to spend 30 minutes on hold to talk to someone who barely speaks English to cancel it. Just enough friction to keep many or most people from doing it.
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Yeah. If I wanted to roll it over to a FIDELITY IRA, electronic was an option. Big surprise.
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I didn't even realize that was a thing in consumer space. Do you guys have a recommendation on a particular model or models with refillable reservoirs, especially if it can handle larger paper? My wife doesn't do it very often, but she does print out sewing patterns that have to be pieced together... and she grumbles about our existing printer only being 8.5x11 and w/o color.
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Also, it is an HP. I don't let it connect to the internet and it has been fine with third party toner, but when it comes time to replace it won't be an HP just as a matter of principle.
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I typically print about 3 double-sided sheets (that is, 3 physical sheets of paper) + 1 single-sided sheet weekly, along with other occasional prints (maybe 1 every couple months). These are on my xerox b/w laser printer.
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Print Counts seem laughably low. (Score:2)
20 pages per month? You'd have more than that with just one kid's homework.
That's also 35c per page, which is very high, especially with it not covering paper. (I'm guessing that's the 'moral support' they give you.)
They should bump it by an order of magnitude. 200pages for the $7 plan.
The 700 page plan doesn't fit either, but at least that's already 5c per page. That should probably go to 1200, or 1500.
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Ah, but "very high" per page is how they cover having to replace the ink because the old cartridge dried out from nonuse.
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20 pages per month? You'd have more than that with just one kid's homework.
That's also 35c per page, which is very high, especially with it not covering paper. (I'm guessing that's the 'moral support' they give you.)
They should bump it by an order of magnitude. 200pages for the $7 plan.
The 700 page plan doesn't fit either, but at least that's already 5c per page. That should probably go to 1200, or 1500.
I dunno, 20 pages a month about covers our usage, which is packing slips and shipping labels for items we sell online. About once a year I'll print a novel draft for somebody to beta read that doesn't like computers, resulting in a few hundred pages.
But arguing over the plan "levels" on an entire concept that should fail on principal seems a backward way to look at it.
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$6.99 a month for 20 pages? (Score:5, Informative)
F... off.
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And you still have to pay for your own paper!
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Cannot say it .... (Score:2)
... fast enough. NO!!!!
Which ass cheek do you want to kiss first? (Score:2)
The left or the right? In the immortal words of Elon Musk, "Go f*ck yourself".
It almost seems like.. (Score:3)
..some sort of intelligence test to identify the clueless for further abuse
Beyond income taxes, what do you print? (Score:2)
I have label printers of all shapes, eras and sizes for electronics projects and storage bin labeling, but anything HP makes, no. I have made a living around being the guy who could make a network printer work in legal, banking, manufacturing and retail, but personaly, everything I do today is a PDF, signed as PDF, kept as PDF unless it is goverment (snail pace) do
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Run (Score:4, Informative)
Run away from HP printers at home or small applications (HP business/higher-end is OK, though).
1) Do not use liquid ink printers
2) DO look at Brother lasers and all-in-ones
https://www.brother-usa.com/ho... [brother-usa.com]
Years and years of perfect service. No lockdowns. Great for home use. Much lower price than comparable HP to buy and much, much, much lower price to operate. Great Linux support. Highly recommend.
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Well, I had their cheapest laser printer and it's firmware one day just decided it was done and functionally bricked itself. Found others online to confirm. won't trust them again. Their higher end model however ran until it broke.
Each ink cartridge comes with free Vasoline. (Score:4, Funny)
"doesn't include repairs or parts" (Score:5, Informative)
> Support doesn't include on or offsite repairs or part replacements.
On an HP?
Good luck with that.
Next year we'll get a story about people with broken printers who are stuck paying out their contract fees.
I know many businesses who contract with "copier companies" for a fixed per-page deal and they find it to be economically adventageous.
But if anything breaks, they make a phone call and have an SLA. We set up a vpn for SNMP toner/malfunction monitoring and along comes a tech once a week/month to keep them going with toner and maintenance, loaded on the truck for him by somebody who pulls from inventory based on the monitoring.
That's the market HP is (not) trying to compete in.
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This appears to be aimed at home users.
Who are a lot more gullible.
(We lease Kyoceras, same deal as you, for what the toner would cost if we owned the printer. Making repairs and maintenance, and the printer itself, basically free. But we have to change our own toner when it's low.)
LaserJet 2100DN (Score:2)
I have two of these color printers. They're circa 2009-2010. I use third party toner from Amazon.
They're awesome and I will keep them running as long as possible.
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Correction. LaserJet 2025.
job shuffle (Score:2)
I see the Bud Light fiasco management has skipped over to HP. Truly we live in the Idiocracy era.
What HP is doing is scary (Score:2)
Make sure friends and family do not buy HP printers.
What a shame. (Score:3)
Next from HP (Score:3)
Here's you shiny brand new computer for $39.99 a month. Remember, you are only allowed to create up to 40 Word documents and visit a maximum of 200 web sites per month. *Upgrade pricing available.
Let's compare this (Score:2)
with our Kyocera lease (which is what this is, a leased printer):
Color laser, not inkjet, so vastly superior quality printing for anything other than photos (and not too bad on those).
All toner, with automated monitoring and shipping for when it's low (which appears to be the same), included.
Guaranteed four hour on site time for maintenance and repair, vs no included repairs at all.
Tens of thousands of pages per month vs max of 700.
Less than twice as much.
No need for any network connection at all, much less
Well, HP can go ... (Score:2)
... and f*ck itself. I think we unanimously agree on that one.
You will own nothing... (Score:2)
HP can KMA (Score:2)
This is strange: (Score:5, Informative)
From the TOS: https://www.hp.com/us-en/all-i... [hp.com]
15. NO OWNERSHIP.
For avoidance of doubt, You DO NOT own HP Device and Subscription Cartridges provided under this HP All-In Plan for print, even if You pay an Early Cancellation Fee or complete the entire Subscription Term or move to a Printer Upgrade. All Device and Subscription Cartridge provided to You as part of the Service remains HP owned equipment, and HP retains title in it.
I'm not entirely sure how they can claim such a thing. I gotta say, this is a real dipshit idea.
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It's been headed in this direction for years. HP is just the first company to say it out loud: You do NOT own the technology you bought and paid for, you only rent it.
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HP retains ownership until the contract is fulfilled, then they will "generously" offer to let you keep the printer/cartridges, maybe for a buyout - remember, they are selling a service, not leasing the printer.
I have to ask, what the hell would HP do with a bunch of fiddly ink jet printers that were self-packed by customers in whatever old cardboard box they happen to have lying around. (I'm picturing a paper towel box full of packing peanuts, with the remains of the inkjet printer floating around in the i
Anyone taking them up on this is nuts! (Score:2)
... or not very smart. ... they can't Math.
Sadly, there's clearly enough dumb people out there for HP to pray on.
The kind that wants something now, is unwilling to save for it, so ends up with the worst deal ever because
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I'm sure if we were to look at HP's strategic plans for the next five years, they include not offering most models for "perpetual" sale and jacking up the price of the few that they do.
Not very smart, I agree. But I could see a future scenario where there aren't many other options.
People are _still_ buying HP printers? (Score:2)
How stupid can you be?
Dang. (Score:2)
I thought that business model went the way of the trilobite way back when the Xerox patent expired.
I can't imagine this working out very well for HP. A rapidly dwindling population of ever more stupid customers.
How about... (Score:2)
No.
New HP Model (Score:2)
It sounds like HP is pivoting to a new business model - that of compiling and selling "sucker lists" of gullible consumers to companies and scammers who find such lists very valuable in improving their "conversion rate".
If I could obtain a sizeable list of suckers who would fall for HP's deal as described here, I'd likely be very rich very quickly.
Just one more step (Score:2)
Just to echo many others, buy a Brother laser printer.
As long as this isn't the only option... (Score:2)
Provenza (Score:2)
Even Lt. Provenza offered a better service to the LAPD than this.
I think I would pay for a print service, if I could, say, submit my occasional color print jobs to Kinko for pickup later that day and do my day-to-day printing on my brother laser. (I don't print much but I do want a ledger sized full color one-or-two page print every few weeks and it's a bind to carry over the USB drive)
Louis Rossmann video in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... (Score:2)
Why do people keep buying HP printers? (Score:2)
At this point it's a well known fact that HP does crap like this so why do people keep buying HP printers?
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They aren't, that's why HP is trying to lease out to unsuspecting customers...
This is part of why I do not buy HP (Score:2)
I worked at both Bell labs and then HP when a nightmare came in and destroyed these amazing companies.
What a nightmare.
No, thank you very much, HP (Score:2)
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