Apple Reportedly Working On Touchscreen Macs, Including MacBook Pro (macrumors.com) 77
Despite years of resistance, Apple is now working on adding touchscreens to Macs, according to a report today from Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. The report claims that a new MacBook Pro with an OLED display could be the first touchscreen Mac in 2025. MacRumors reports: Gurman said Apple engineers are "actively engaged in the project," indicating that the company is "seriously considering" producing touchscreen Macs. The first MacBook Pro with a touchscreen would retain a traditional laptop design with a trackpad and a keyboard, but the display would gain support for touch input like an iPhone or iPad. The first touchscreen Macs are likely to use macOS, as Apple is not actively working to combine iPadOS and macOS, according to the report. iPhone and iPad apps are available on Macs with Apple silicon chips, though, unless a developer opts out.
Apple has repeatedly dismissed the idea of a touchscreen Mac over the years, so this would be a major reversal in philosophy for the company if it moves forward with these plans. In 2010, for example, Steve Jobs said that "touch surfaces don't want to be vertical" due to arm fatigue associated with holding up a finger to the screen. And in 2021, Apple's hardware engineering chief John Ternus said the Mac was "totally optimized for indirect input" and said the company did not feel there was a good reason to change that at the time.
Apple has repeatedly dismissed the idea of a touchscreen Mac over the years, so this would be a major reversal in philosophy for the company if it moves forward with these plans. In 2010, for example, Steve Jobs said that "touch surfaces don't want to be vertical" due to arm fatigue associated with holding up a finger to the screen. And in 2021, Apple's hardware engineering chief John Ternus said the Mac was "totally optimized for indirect input" and said the company did not feel there was a good reason to change that at the time.
Just like Apple resisted iPhone bigger than 3.5" (Score:2)
Jobs will be rolling in his grave.
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He's been doing that for a while. I think we can soon start using him as an energy source. It's a shame what's come out of Apple recently - or rather, what's lacking. The current focus on building more components in-house clearly shows Tim as a supply-chain expert in charge, but the vision that drove Apple to change or invent entirely new markets seems to have disappeared.
Sadly. Used to be a huge fan. Now I get lots of disappointments (like who the &$!% thought that discontinuing the 27" iMac was a grea
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Figuring out why wasn't anyone's priority, apparently.
It needed an update with a powerful desktop GPU, to bridge the gap between the smaller iMacs (for home use) and the Mac Pro. People like me, who do 3D stuff and occasional video editing are now sitting between two options where one has not enough power and the other is insanely expensive.
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Alternative headline: "Apple finally pulls its head out of the sand."
Touchscreens are soooo much faster to use than trackpads.
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Touchscreens are soooo much faster to use than trackpads.
WTF? Trackpad = finger movement. Screen = huge.
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Trackpad = finger movement.
LOTS of finger movement.
It takes so long to position the mouse pointer exactly over small UI elements it's ridiculous. With my stylus I just reach up and tap it.
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Jobs will be rolling in his grave.
Jobs may have been a visionary but he's also *not* one to ignore a wider market trend at the expensive of producing a product people want. Many current phones are stupidly oversized, but the 3.5" was stupidly undersized given what the device has become and how people's use of it have changed since his original declaration.
Color me a sceptic.. (Score:3)
I don't believe this is true. This would be about as successful and useful on MacBook Pro as the Touch Bar. Apple people are smart people.
That said, consumers like a touch screen, so for the MacBook Air - a consumer focused machine - for sure. It would increase the cost though, and consumers are price conscious.
Hence scepticism overall.
Re:Color me a sceptic.. (Score:5, Insightful)
consumers like a touch screen
Maybe. But there doesn't seem to be much demand for touchscreen laptops other than two-in-ones that fold flat into a tablet.
I, for one, do not want this. It means every time my kids use my laptop, I will get it back with fingerprints all over the screen.
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last time I checked, there are more people in the world then just you.
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I end up with fingerprints all over the screen anyway... I hate it when people can't point properly and end up touching the screen leaving a fingerprint on it. I'm constantly pointing out to colleagues that it's not a touchscreen and the only thing you achieve by touching it is to leave greasy fingerprints all over it.
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Use a stylus, problem solved.
Most UI elements are too small/fiddly for a sausage-finger anyway.
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Maybe they'll bring back matt screen? I'm sure finger prints are less noticeable on these.
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I don't believe this is true... Apple people are smart people.
Hmm, neither do I.
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...consumers like a touch screen...
Do they though? I buy touchscreen laptops because the model we use from Dell has a touchscreen, but I don't think anybody ever uses the actual functionality.
I suppose somebody must or they wouldn't make them though.
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Nobody uses touch screen laptops as "touch screen" laptops, hell, they are often surprised that the screen even lets them do that.
This is because Dell made certain laptop lines "2 in 1" models, but trying to actually use it? Only benefits people who need a certain type of input (eg entering Chinese/Japanese Kanji) that is suited for the touch screen. "Touch" itself is too inaccurate to be used for data entry or creative tasks, and is generally limited to tasks that do not demand pixel-level precision (eg to
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So, because YOU never used it for browsing the web you think no one uses it?
Something as simple as rearranging the windows is easy on a touch screen, or scrolling, or closing one.
Heck using the laptop as the name indicates: on your lap!! is much easier with a touch screen - no mouse on your bed, or? And it is kind of awkward to play on the mouse pad around if the laptop is in your lap.
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Nobody uses touch screen laptops as "touch screen" laptops, hell, they are often surprised that the screen even lets them do that.
This is because Dell made certain laptop lines "2 in 1" models, but trying to actually use it? Only benefits people who need a certain type of input (eg entering Chinese/Japanese Kanji) that is suited for the touch screen. "Touch" itself is too inaccurate to be used for data entry or creative tasks, and is generally limited to tasks that do not demand pixel-level precision (eg touch-based games that aren't simply "clicker" games)
I generally agree with the "Gorilla Arm" argument against vertical touchscreens.
But, there are a number of DAW and SoftSynth/FX Plugins where I would love to just tap a control and drag as one intuitive motion.
You could offload that UX to a companion iPad; but then you're juggling back and forth between two things, when, like with a live-performance synth rig, it is often hard enough to find space for a single laptop; let alone a laptop + iPad!
So, that is one use-case where I imagine a MacBook with a Touchs
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I borrowed someone's Dell that had one of these touch screens without knowing it. I noticed a bit of dirt on the screen and I went to wipe it away like I would on any laptop.
I'm not sure what I even clicked, but suddenly I had pulled dozens of naked photos out from somewhere and thrown them all over the desktop. It was awkward for both of us.
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Re: Color me a sceptic.. (Score:2)
I'm guessing it's the marketing, umm, geniuses, because that will surely cost more. Who wouldn't want to pay more for a feature you don't need and will never use?
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I doubt we're getting a "touch screen" mac, ever.
No PC, be it Mac, Windows or Linux has ever benefited from having touch input. This is because of the general way you position yourself when you use a computer. You need a keyboard and mouse OR you need to have the screen at the level of the keyboard (as in a Wacom Cintiq) to use it.
No the more likely scenario is that Apple comes out with a "cintiq sized" bigger "iPad" designed for drawing, not a Mac. Nobody wants to muck up their primay screen to type.
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No idea what an touchscreen on a laptop or an iMac has to do with typing.
Do you think the keyboard "magically" stops working because of he touch screen?
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I doubt we're getting a "touch screen" mac, ever.
No PC, be it Mac, Windows or Linux has ever benefited from having touch input.
Rubbish, I use my touch screen Windows laptop all the time.
This is because of the general way you position yourself when you use a computer. You need a keyboard and mouse OR you need to have the screen at the level of the keyboard (as in a Wacom Cintiq) to use it.
What if you only have a trackpad? Trackpads are pain incarnate.
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No PC, be it Mac, Windows or Linux has ever benefited from having touch input.
Well that's not true. I use a Dell touch screen with a Mac Mini to program ETC Nomad (a virtual theater lighting console). With the touchscreen Nomad behaves pretty much like one of ETC's dedicated hardware consoles for a fraction of the cost. I'm not making the claim that this is a generally useful thing for everyone but there's certainly an audience.
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Everyone likes a touch screen.
Especially if you work with a tablet and a mac same time. How often I touched my Mac screen, frustrated grabbing the mouse afterward, because I'm so used to touch the screen: you won't believe.
Also it would make testing iOS software more simple, emulator powers up, just play with it on the Mac, no extra mouse problem involved.
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I don't believe this is true. This would be about as successful and useful on MacBook Pro as the Touch Bar. Apple people are smart people.
No, not at all. The biggest reason the Touch Bar failed was that it took away a row of keys. People hold down command keys and option keys and shift keys while hitting numbers all the time, and the result was a high rate of accidental triggering of the adjacent Touch Bar. I would guess that at least 95% of my touches on the Touch Bar were in error. *That* is what made the Touch Bar suck.
That said, the concept was also broken in several other ways. The touch area was way too small vertically to do almos
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Do consumers like touch screens? On a tablet, sure. But a laptop? I've had a couple with touch screens. Used them once to test a touch interface for a web site I was working on and literally never used them again. They were nicely annoying when I wanted to brush some dust off the screen though.
Just seems like a waste of engineering and time.
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I like a touchscreen on my laptop.
But I don't use it a lot. In fact, I hardly ever use it.
It's just nice it's there - if I need to quickly tap something away, it may be faster to just touch the screen and get rid of it rather than find the mouse cursor and mouse over to close it.
When my work laptop busted and got replaced with a non-touchscreen unit, I noticed how I missed the touchscreen, but not enough for it to actually be detrimental to using the laptop - I still used the touchpad and mouse for 99.99% o
Yay! Just like my 2016 Asus (Score:3, Interesting)
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You invented that!
Yes. Yes we did. [engadget.com]
It's all super dumb and for idiots until Apple invents it. Suddenly big phones are great and a stylus is very important.
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Maybe. I had a touch-screen once and almost never touched it. My mouse is more accessible and I'm used to it. My screen is dirty enough without anyone putting their fingers on it especially me.
I also dislike touch-screens in stores where you're supposed to sign your name - sometimes with just your finger.
I don't like the virtual keyboard on my phone either, but maybe that's because it's too easy for me to fat-finger things, Even if were as big as the keyboard I'm using on my desktop, I kind of like the
Yeah nah (Score:2)
Already my next laptop is likely to be Linux because of this.
Implementing garbage as "new" is a worse option than doing nothing.
If they ar not very careful they will end up producing the "Home Simpson" of cars.
If they want the touch screen route, allow an iPad to do that properly, then you still have 2 fully functional devices that can be used separately rather than one device with
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Apple had a patent long ago where they replaced the keyboard and trackpad with a touch screen. they ended up with one of the worst keyboards around that time... so maybe they gave up on the idea of touch keyboards??
Oh noes! More filthy displays! (Score:2)
I have a hard time cleaning my MacBookPro already with all those unintended fingerprints.
Now imagine your coworkers pointing out things on your MacBook all day long.
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yeah .. i hate it when people touch my monitor and leave their prints.. very bad idea.
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Now imagine your coworkers pointing out things on your MacBook all day long.
If other people are pointing at things on my screen then it's a lost cause anyway.
PS: Do you prefer them to touch your mouse? Ew!
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I have a friend who did desktop support for a while. He was always going around the office and having to touch other peoples keyboards and mice. He has moved up since then, but he said he never got sick so often as when he was doing desktop support and touching everyone else's filthy keyboards.
The only reason my keyboard is clean is because I just got it 2 weeks ago. The old one is filthy and didn't work right.
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He hadn't heard of soap and water...? :-P
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I have a hard time cleaning my MacBookPro already with all those unintended fingerprints.
Now imagine your coworkers pointing out things on your MacBook all day long.
The advent of touchscreen has caused people to stop touching other's screens out of fear of accidentally clicking something. If you don't want fingerprints, don't use the touchscreen. It's not hard. I'm typing this from a laptop with a touchscreen right now and there's not a smudge on it and it hasn't been cleaned in weeks.
Or can you just not help yourself?
The only reasons this _might_ happen... (Score:4, Interesting)
The only reasons I can see that this might happen are:
a. They do it to support touch in iOS/iPadOS apps running on Apple Silicone, and/or
b. They implement Apple Pencil support
I don't know much of anyone who has any real desire to have touch on their screens. Even those people I know who own touch-enabled Windows laptops never use the touch capabilities. I don't know anyone who has ever found it useful on a laptop, other than as a curiosity.
Yaz
Great points (Score:1)
a. They do it to support touch in iOS/iPadOS apps running on Apple Silicone, and/or
b. They implement Apple Pencil support
I think you have hit the nail on the head about why such a thing is inevitable.
Especially Apple Pencil support, would be extremely popular for all kinds of photo and video editing.
That alone is compelling enough of a reason to add it, maybe they would have specific models even more tailored to video and photo editing than they already do, and those would ship with a touch screen - and a p
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I can see touch having some benefits for iOS and iPadOS app development. Right now you can run builds on your workstation and emulate single touch using a mouse, but multi-touch is extremely difficult to use in this way — you wind up having to put your build onto an appropriate device and then test there. And yes — ultimately you’ll want to do your QA testing on actual devices, but requiring that of developers just slows down the development process. Having your app run natively on real
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As an Android user, mouse input via bluetooth or USB OTG has been present since version 3 but it has always been second rate - flaky experiences with middle and right button clicks and click and drag to support touch based scrolling.
A lack of testing on actual mouse-dri
Pinch-zoom OK in simulator (Score:1)
Right now you can run builds on your workstation and emulate single touch using a mouse, but multi-touch is extremely difficult to use in this way
I also agree this would make testing easier, but wanted to say using multi-touch in the iOS simulator in terms of pinch-zoom I never found too hard, I use it pretty much every day... just hold down alt while clicking and dragging. It's the most frequently used multi-touch gesture by far so generally it works well.
Anything beyond single or pinch style touches th
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I don't know anyone who has ever found it useful on a laptop, other than as a curiosity.
Yaz
Me.
I use it all day long on my laptop. It's way faster than a trackpad.
(Yes, I use a stylus...)
Just get an iPad instead? (Score:2)
Or maybe now Apple's laptops can have the same propensity to have fingerprints on the screen as many Intel laptops.
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You don't need to touch it if you don't want to. Also if I could have an iPad with a full desktop OS while also being a functionally powerful laptop I would. Oh wait I do, it's just an offering from Microsoft not from Apple.
Features you don't need. (Score:2)
* Yea, someone will see this as a feature they can't live without for some reason, good for them.
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Do you complain about fingerprints on your phone? I bet you don't use a mouse with that.
iPads and iphones (Score:2)
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They have touch screens. Why do they need them? Because they have no trackpad. MacBooks have a huge trackpad. Much more ergonomic than a touch screen.
Actually, I find it kind of un-ergonomic, because it is a bit too big, and occasionally weird things happen as a result. For example, I've had the trackpad basically stop working because my stomach or hand or whatever was touching the bottom edge of the computer and overhanging the bottom edge of the trackpad just enough to make it go crazy and think that there's another finger on the trackpad. Bezels are your friend when it comes to avoiding false touch events. (Don't get me started on phones.)
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2 types of laptop users; those who love a trackpad and those only use it when they don't have a mouse handy. I'm in the latter category, obviously.
But each to their own, I would generally only use even a touchscreen on a laptop when in 2-in-1 mode, e.g. watching a video on a bus.
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2 types of laptop users; those who love a trackpad and those only use it when they don't have a mouse handy. I'm in the latter category, obviously.
But each to their own, I would generally only use even a touchscreen on a laptop when in 2-in-1 mode, e.g. watching a video on a bus.
Oh, I love the trackpad... on the Wallstreet PowerBook. Every time they made it bigger, usability got worse. :-) To be fair, there have been some improvements, feature-wise. I like a small subset of the gestures — the two-finger right click, the two-finger scroll, pinch to zoom, and the three-finger swipe between workspaces. And maybe the Wallstreet's trackpad was too small, though I never personally found it to be so. But I feel like there's a happy medium in there somewhere.
Also, removing the m
My Dell XPS has a touchscreen and I love it (Score:1)
Apple should just do what Dell does and give its users the choice and they can chose whateve
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I have an XPS 2-in-1 running linux with gnome and I love it. I don't want to ever go back to non-touch. I use the touchscreen way more than I use the trackpad or mouse. keyboard is still a must though. I don't use it in tablet mode, but I still like the 2-in-1 hinges because if I'm watching a movie in bed, I put it in tent mode. That helps keep the laptop cool so the fan doesn't kick on.
Actually, the real answer is obvious (Score:2)
The real answer to this is an iPad Pro that runs both iPadOS and macOS.
That way, macOS DAW/Synth and CAD/Drawing/Layout Applications that could truly benefit most from direct manipulation of onscreen elements could have that, without getting into the whole "Gorilla Arm" (which is a thing!) controversy.
Would help flagging iPad sales, without significantly cannibalizing MacBook sales.
And best of all, not one single transistor has to change; nor new hardware developed nor acquired. It's 100% software!
Breaking... (Score:2)
"Company that routinely prototypes all sorts of things may have prototyped to the stage where they think they have a viable product. More at 11."
25 years of prod and gawp (Score:3, Interesting)
macOS? Maybe... but maybe not. (Score:2)
... The first touchscreen Macs are likely to use macOS ...
With all due respect to the guy who seems to have the inside track on nearly all things Apple... I've nonetheless never agreed with Gurman on this point; I still think that there is a good chance that the device he's describing (when it finally does arrive) will run a fully iPadOS experience, and will not attempt to recreate the full Mac experience. Apple has been having an incredibly successful run with iOS and its various derivative products, so much so that multiple other companies are constantly suing
I'm skeptical; it's not a good laptop feature (Score:2)
Touch displays make sense for a tablet, and UI's centered around that sort of interaction, but aren't particularly a good idea for the laptop form-factor. There's the ergonomic issue of holding the arm up and moving back and forth between touch pad, keyboard, and screen. There's the issue of finger prints. Most importantly, though, is that touch UIs have different considerations that non-touch UIs. Touch targets need to be bigger and consistently sized; they need to be laid out to accommodate the hand obscu
It depends (Score:2)
I had an HP PC laptop that had this feature and the only time I ever used it was for part of a demo of a mapping app that I wrote. Otherwise, I never used it. The physical experience is too bouncy.
I currently have a Macbook Pro with a touch bar and aside from the fact that it's failing, I rarely use it unless I have to. Having to take my hands off the keyboard to do something is a potential problem. It interrupts the workflow. But, I'll say this, having followed Apple closely for decades, one thing you
Oh Goodie!! (Score:1)
Sounds Great, now Apple folk can have the same unused feature PC owners have!