TSMC To Bring Its Most Advanced Chip Manufacturing To Arizona (cnn.com) 63
Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company plans to bring its most advanced technology to Arizona, the founder of the chip giant said Monday. From a report: TSMC's plans come as tensions between Washington and Beijing are rising over chips, with President Joe Biden imposing a sweeping set of controls on the sale of advanced chips and chip-making equipment to Chinese firms. Taiwan, a self-governing democracy that the Chinese Communist Party claims as its own territory despite having never controlled it, has also faced growing military aggression from Beijing in recent months -- throwing a spotlight on the critical role the island plays in the global chipmaking industry. TSMC accounts for an estimated 90% of the world's super-advanced computer chips, supplying tech giants including Apple and Qualcomm.
"Chips are very important products," TSMC's founder Morris Chang said Monday at a press briefing in Taipei. "It seems that people are only starting to realize this recently, and as a result, lots of people out there are envious of Taiwan's chip manufacturing." Chang has retired but remains an influential force within the industry. [...] Advances in chip manufacturing require etching ever-smaller transistors on to silicon wafers. Chang said its plant in Arizona will produce 3-nanometer chips, TSMC's most advanced technology. In 2020, the company had already committed at least $12 billion to build its first facility in Arizona. At the time, the tech giant had said that the facility will "utilize TSMC's 5-nanometer technology for semiconductor wafer fabrication" and "create over 1,600 high-tech professional jobs directly." Production is expected to begin in 2024.
"Chips are very important products," TSMC's founder Morris Chang said Monday at a press briefing in Taipei. "It seems that people are only starting to realize this recently, and as a result, lots of people out there are envious of Taiwan's chip manufacturing." Chang has retired but remains an influential force within the industry. [...] Advances in chip manufacturing require etching ever-smaller transistors on to silicon wafers. Chang said its plant in Arizona will produce 3-nanometer chips, TSMC's most advanced technology. In 2020, the company had already committed at least $12 billion to build its first facility in Arizona. At the time, the tech giant had said that the facility will "utilize TSMC's 5-nanometer technology for semiconductor wafer fabrication" and "create over 1,600 high-tech professional jobs directly." Production is expected to begin in 2024.
Water (Score:5, Insightful)
This is great news but we're gonna need to get Arizona a pipeline to the sea.
Their current trajectory ends in disaster.
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seriously WTF is up with chip manufacturers wanting to build in AZ ?
No water, and you can't convince me for a second that's there's some sort of ready-to-go semiconductor manufacturing workforce there either.
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Allowed to literally piss on your employees or some such. They aren't doing because it make sense from resource allocation view.
Re: Water (Score:4, Informative)
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There's low seismic activity in the Northeast as well. Plus places like New York, for example, have plenty of fresh water as well as hydroelectric power.
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They'd be better off buying out the Foxconn property in S. E. WIS. Racine WI has one of the largest municipal water treatment facilities in the US.
Very geologically stable. Much more so than NY - which still experiences the occasional tremor. WI sit still rebounding a bit from the last glaciation, but that is gradual enough to be accounted for. Also far enough away from New Madrid to get notice and halt node work if something hiccups down there.
Overburden to get to bedrock isn't too terribly deep - 50-6
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Re: Water (Score:4, Informative)
According to USGS, Florida and North Dakota are the states with the fewest earthquakes. Well, who could blame them for not wanting to build there?
The hazard map [usgs.gov] for Arizona looks okay until you compare it to Pennsylvania [usgs.gov], Ohio, West Virginia ...
If you really love deserts, New Mexico and Texas [usgs.gov] also look better. Know of any really famous semiconductor companies from Texas?
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Know of any really famous semiconductor companies from Texas?
Are you being sarcastic because Texas Instruments literally has Texas in the name. Besides that, NXP (Formerly Freescale--formerly Motorola) is still in Texas. Also Samsung has a huge plant in Texas.
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Are you being sarcastic
I'd say "obviously" but ... here we are.
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Are you being sarcastic because Texas Instruments literally has Texas in the name.
I'm 100% sure that was the whole joke.
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No natural disasters (Score:2)
Re: No natural disasters (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I'm from Phoenix, and water there really isn't as big of a deal there as you and these other idiots think. Phoenix is the only region in the southwest that has actually increased its water table in recent years. Unlike the rest of the southwest, we know how to manage our water.
The water needs of a semiconductor plant aren't even as big as what a typical golf course needs, and there are already many of those in Phoenix. Unlike golf courses, semiconductor plants can also use reclaimed water, of which we have plenty.
Aside from the very low rate of natural disasters and extremely stable weather patterns, Arizona has public infrastructure, including electrical grid, that is extremely reliable. Your high tax ultra left enclaves can't even do that with all of the money they take, yet Phoenix can pull it off with less.
Re:Water (Score:5, Informative)
This was discussed in other Slashdot topics. The water a chip plant uses is relatively small compared to other interests in the region, and the water can be reused.
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^ this
(sorry, I have no mod points)
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The largest business users of water in Arizona are agriculture (farms) and golf courses. They could probably do without the latter. But with Lake Mead and the Colorado river running dry, the Southwest has got bigger problems than a few farms and golf courses.
Re:Water (Score:5, Informative)
No water, and you can't convince me for a second that's there's some sort of ready-to-go semiconductor manufacturing workforce there either.
There are currently seven semiconductor fabs [wikipedia.org] in Arizona located within 2 hours of Phoenix, 4 of which are Intel. Intel has announced plans for 2 more by 2024. With TSMC's plant, that would make 10. I would say that 7 current fabs within 2 hours means there is probably an ample supply of semiconductor manufacturing workforce.
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seriously WTF is up with chip manufacturers wanting to build in AZ ?
No water, and you can't convince me for a second that's there's some sort of ready-to-go semiconductor manufacturing workforce there either.
Semiconductor research and manufacturing has been going on in the Phoenix area since Dan Noble set up a Lab for Motorola in 1949. Motorola's 52nd street facility opened up in 1952 and started producing discrete Transistors. This business, which was called the Semiconductor Components Group was spun off into ON Semiconductor in the late 1990's and remains the corporate headquarters to this day. In the meantime, multiple fabs were established by Motorola in the 1960's and continued into the early 2000's.
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There are two possibilities; either TSMC is operated by ruinously stupid people that are in desperate need of your insight, or you don't actually understand the issue.
Hint: they're not stupid.
When water chemistry is crucial to some process you don't use untreated well water or pipe it in from some lake. You close the cycle and reuse water. Obviously some make up feed of water is required, but that is necessarily a small amount; getting new water into the system is costly because it requires more treat
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... and you can't convince me for a second that's there's some sort of ready-to-go semiconductor manufacturing workforce there either.
I guess you've never heard of NXP semiconductor (previously Freescale, and before that Motorola Semiconductor) which is in Chandler AZ, a suburb of Phoenix?
Re: Water (Score:2)
Actually yeah there is both enough water and a sizable semiconductor workforce. Intel has been building fabrication plants in Arizona for years for exactly this reason.
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TSMC in Taiwan is already under water restrictions and reuses most of the water by recycling it.
https://www.globalwaterintel.com/news/2022/44/tsmc-leans-more-on-reuse-for-semiconductors
At 5000 cubic meters per day at consumer rates they'd only be paying $8k per day.... significant but probably dwarfed by savings of running in AZ vs other west cost states.
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The TSMC water scare had to do with the expectation that there would be lots of water. In Arizona, Intel supposedly has "net positive water usage," meaning that they return more water to the water districts than they use. I'm not quite sure how that works in practice, but I think it's safe to say that they're able to recycle the same water over-and-over again so that they don't pull a million gallons a day from the ground. TSMC's current fabs are located in one of the wettest areas of the world, so they
Water is not a problem in Arizona (Score:2)
Arizona just needs to borrow water from the Saudis and their alfalfa farm in the desert [npr.org].
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This isn't insight. It's ignorance. The water "problem" is bandied about every single time chip manufacturing in the desert is discussed.
Advanced manufacturing processes that involve large quantities of water do not drain water out of a lake or whatever and pump it into billion dollar ASML machines. Water chemistry is paramount: dedicated workers with PHDs spend all of their time adjusting and monitoring the water chemistry. As such, they reuse the carefully prepared supply of water as much as economi
"Culture" clash? (Score:2, Interesting)
What happened to all the bitching TSMC was doing about the US workforce? I recall [eetimes.com] that just 10 month ago TSMC couldn't get US workers to do 12+ hour days or cope with obsolete software TSMC has been muddling along with in Taiwan.
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Don't hate the player, hate the game.
They could have just as easily set up shop in a state or country that offered them better subsidies.
Need to look not at what they are getting, but the total value to the community. How much are those 1200 jobs worth to the area? How much is the increased tax revenue those 1200 families will be paying worth? How many other businesses will locate supporting businesses near there - warehousing, manufacturing, services - just to serve TSMC as a customer, and how much tax
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What happened to all the bitching TSMC was doing about the US workforce?
They solved it by flying 6 planes full of TSMC staff over to the US. Seemed they also immediately get green card upon arrival too.
Bad sign for Taiwan (Score:4, Interesting)
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One of the reasons why Russia was able to go to war with Ukraine is that they weren't fully integrated into the global economy. That was gradually happening and it's why Putin was so desperate to s
Re: Bad sign for Taiwan (Score:2)
But, no, you are wrong. Moving the most advanced fabs to the US means TSMC will no longer have its deepest roots in Taiwan and thus the US can agitate for a separatist conflict with China without riskin
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With the exception of Teslas most cars use chips from 20 or 30 years ago because they're well understood and stable is a rock and perfectly suited for purpose. Tesla's insistence on using cutting edge processors is one of the reasons for their reliability problems.
The reason tsmc is moving The cutting edge stuff here is that the
Is there news here? Or just a release? (Score:2)
Is this an announcement of a NEW fab in AZ? Besides the one already under construction? If so, I missed that when I read the article title... :P
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No. It's all fake ignore it. This is the correct progression in your thinking going forward:
TSMC will never build-out in the US: 'murkins are too stupid and lazy, etc.
And if they do it will only be older nodes
And if it isn't only older nodes then it will all fail because no water or something.
In related news: (Score:2, Funny)
for Tesla? (Score:1)
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Arizona will beat Wisconsin! (Score:3, Informative)
What kind of tax abatements and sweet heart deals Wisconsin gave to Foxconn, and what did it get in return?
But its not new. Before this round, jurisdictions outbid each other to get Amazon warehouses. Nevada stuffed dollars down the throat of Tesla
Before that cities gave huge land grants, tax abatements, and heavy handed used of eminent domain to benefit railroad companies.
Before that same thing, but for canal companies. George Cherry-tree-Chopper Washington spent his ex-President days lobbying for a canal connecting Potomac to the river Monongahela, a tributary to river Ohio and thus to river Mississippi. He and his coterie had cornered so much of land in the Monongahela valley, Washington owned some god-only-knows-what percent of Washington County, PA. He was dead and gone for a long time, and the railroads made canals obsolete, but the lobby lived on and the Chesapeake and Ohio company completed the canal upto the Cumberland Gap. At that point even the imbeciles of the Congress knew it had no future and they pulled the plug. But what glorious bike trail the tow path of that canal makes now.
Before the the British Crown recruited soldiers and sailors and turned them over to serve for East India Company to go and rape the whole subcontinent and get China addicted to opium.
Tax payer funded profits for private companies has been the driving force for the last 350 years. Why should it change now?
Why Phoenix? (Score:5, Interesting)
Playing into China's hands (Score:2)
1. Threaten tiny island;
2. Wait for their industry & economic powerhouses to flee;
3. Watch as the world abandons the tiny little island that no longer has anything of value;
4. Profit!
Okay, distorted and massively oversimplified, however just by shaking its fist at Taiwan, China is forcing the world to become less dependent on it - weakening both its economy and its political influence.
Once the world no longer needs Taiwan's services & industry, it'll just become another territorial pawn.
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Actually, I read it as the exact opposite. Taiwan is strengthening economic and cultural ties with the US by doing this, not weakening them, thus encouraging stronger US protection. The US is not China. TSCM is not implicitly giving up all it's technology to rival US firms simply by opening a plant here, as is pretty much guaranteed if the plant was in China.
Moreover, purely on ground of politics and prestige, the US isn't going to let China curbstomp Taiwan any time soon. And besides that, we're curren
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Other countries like Ukraine will be hung out to dry with minimal or no support. It's rather sickening, isn't it?
The US has provided $18.2 billion in support to Ukraine since 2021 and it ratchets up by several hundred million practically every month. What rock have you been living under, coward?
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Countries with resources or technologies useful to the robber barons of the United States and the European Union will be protected from aggessors like Russia and China. Other countries like Ukraine will be hung out to dry with minimal or no support. It's rather sickening, isn't it?
The Ukrainians are kicking the shit out of Russia thanks to their courage and our weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
https://www.statista.com/chart... [statista.com]
Most of the civilized world has donated at least something, if not military, humanitarian aid.
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Not to mention that, once the US plants are set up, TSMC could say to China "you invade our country, we destroy the fabs".
Because my guess is TSMC is a major reason China would like to annex Taiwan.
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TSMC isn't Taiwan, it's a private company. Taiwan benefits from TSMC (among others) choosing to base their operations there, manufacturing high value exports, creating jobs, and attracting world-class talent.
It together with the rest of the semiconductor industry constitutes about 15 percent of Taiwan's GDP, and the company makes up about one-third of the value on the Taiwanese stock market.
As I tried to make obvious with my addendum, a point that many appear to have missed, I don't believe in any malicious
Re: Playing into China's hands (Score:2)
You clearly do not know anything about how Taiwan works today with China. Ever heard of Foxconn? You probably think itâ(TM)s a Chinese company. Itâ(TM)s not. Itâ(TM)s Taiwanese.
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Taiwanese companies are not Taiwan. And Chinese threats are forcing those companies to invest less in Taiwan and more in other countries. That ultimately hurts Taiwan: less exports, less taxes, less jobs.
Its about pochable talent (Score:3)
Intel has several of its highest tech fabs in Phoenix and is constantly expanding its foot print.
Phoenix has long been home to other tech companies including Honeywell, First Solar, General Dynamics, Locheed Martin, Qualcomm, Raytheon and many more. It's close to California and has a lower cost of living (though it's going up.) Insanity of Arizona politics aside, it's a pretty good place to build.
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So ... send the chips back to China for assembly? (Score:2)
Welcome to America! (Score:4, Insightful)
This is Trump's biggest problem (Score:1)
About time. (Score:2)
Taiwan has only one identity: the undisputed leader in the worldâ(TM)s fabrication of semiconductors. They also lay claim to some of the worldâ(TM)s most advanced electronics manufacturing companies ( ever heard of Foxconn? )
While journalists continue to parade the idiotic Taiwan vs China narrative to harness the American hatred of China, they miss the real point: that semiconductors are finally coming back to the USA.
This is on the scale of Japanese manufacturers on-shoring American labor in car
Lies (Score:1)
knowhow (Score:2)
Knowhow is more important than bricks.