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China Hardware

China Dumps Dud Chips On Russia, Moscow Media Moans (theregister.com) 227

The failure rate of semiconductors shipped from China to Russia has increased by 1,900 percent in recent months, according to Russian national business daily Kommersant. The Register reports: Quoting an anonymous source, Kommersant states that before Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine the defect rate in imported silicon was two percent. Since that war commenced, Russian manufacturers have apparently faced 40 percent failure rates. Even a two percent defect rate is sub-optimal, because products made of many components can therefore experience considerable quality problems. Forty percent failure rates mean supplies are perilously close to being unfit for purpose.

According to Kommersant, Russian electronics manufacturers are not enjoying life at all because, on top of high failure rates, gray market gear doesn't flow with the same speed as legit kit and supply chains are currently very kinked indeed inside Russia. The newspaper lays the blame on economic sanctions that have seen many major businesses quit Russia. Gray market distributors and other opportunistic operators have been left as the only entities willing to deal with Russian businesses. Gray market folks are not renowned for their sterling customer service nor their commitment to quality. They get away with it because buyers of products with -- ahem -- unconventional origins self-incriminate if they complain to authorities. Perhaps they're even dumping dud product on Russian buyers, knowing that they can't easily access alternatives.

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China Dumps Dud Chips On Russia, Moscow Media Moans

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  • by Stoutlimb ( 143245 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:08PM (#62978659)

    China has decided not to help Putin's Russia. China is busy humping the cooling corpse called Russia. The Eastern provinces are likely to become very cozy with China.

    • by Mal-2 ( 675116 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:15PM (#62978665) Homepage Journal

      Early 2022: Russia second best army in world!
      Late 2022: Russia second best army in Ukraine!
      Early 2023: Russia second best army in Russia!

      • by Cool Hands Leia ( 10159653 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @10:17PM (#62978781)

        Moscow Media Moans

        Well, at least they're getting laid.

    • by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:23PM (#62978683)
      Or more likely, they've just been ordered to keep all the good stuff for China, because they smelled Biden's semiconductor sanctions from months away (also because of global chip shortage from before).

      China and Russia will never really be allies of friends, and probably despise each other more than they do the US. They were never going to go near a drowning man.

      All Russia is good for is oil and gas, and now China can get it for cheap thanks to sanctions.
      • Russia == gas station with nukes.

        That's all they'll ever be good for, at least until they rise up against Putin.

        • by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @11:25PM (#62978905)

          A Gas station that China is going to own by the end of this war.

          China is the only thing holding russia up right now, and they *will* be collecting their fee at the end.

          Iran might be supplying a few hokey drones and shitty unguided cruise missiles, but China is keeping Russias economies alive. And all China wants in return is oil. And by "wants Oil" I mean *ALL* of the oil.

          Russia will never be a superpower again.

          • Depends how you define superpower. More nuclear weapons than anybody, and 18 times that of China (estimated), who are in 3rd place.

            It might be all they have left... but it's a lot.

            Economically? You're right. That ship hasn't just sailed, it sunk.

            • by Ed Tice ( 3732157 ) on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @11:13AM (#62980347)
              Nuclear weapons don't allow a country to project power. You can sabre-rattle sure. But Russia is such a bad place that many (maybe most) people would rather risk a nuclear attack that be ruled by such incompetent clowns. And if you give in just a little to nuclear blackmail, you know that more is coming. "Soft power" is much more effective in shaping the world and Russia pretty much has none of that left. Much of this thread talks about China getting Russian oil. And maybe that will be useful. Even energy has gotten way less valuable these days. Prices are high right now but there's a scramble to get away from dependence on particular types or origins of energy.

              Chins projects more power than Russia right now because China has the money to finance infrastructure projects around the world. That's much more effective than nuclear weapons. China could build a many nukes as Russia but doesn't because China realizes that's just a waste of resources. They have enough for mutual deterrence and that's all that is needed.

        • Russia == gas station with nukes.
          That's all they'll ever be good for, at least until they rise up against Putin.

          s/Russia/Saudi Arabia/
          s/nukes/sand/
          s/Putin/House of Saud/

      • Can someone give me the straight dope on the semiconductor sanctions?

        Don't tell me to Google it because everyone reporting on it has some kind of "angle." I am asking here because the technically informed geek world might have some answers.

        Did China do something recently to provoke this? Or is this simply a continuation of a Let's Get Tough on China policy?

        Is this following through on one of Mr. Biden's campaign promises? China may have "smelled" this for months, but as a USian, I had no idea this

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by HiThere ( 15173 )

          This is just my "off the cuff" guess, based on absolutely no inside information:

          China is taking moves intended to capture Taiwan. This is very uncomfortable for the US, because of the important semiconductor production there. It's also embarrassing, because we promised to defend it, but realistically we are limited in how much we will do. So we're taking steps to limit semiconductor access. Also trying to get plants built elsewhere. And, according to at least one story, threatening to blow up the facto

          • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @10:40PM (#62978823) Journal

            China is taking moves intended to capture Taiwan.

            Note: not just Taiwan. They've threatened basically all of their neighbors, with varying levels of believably.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward

            It's also embarrassing, because we promised to defend it, but realistically we are limited in how much we will do.

            The US should be embarrassed if it can't defend Taiwan, as well as the Taiwanese. Taiwan is separated from China by a 90 mile moat. If China had a land bridge to Taiwan, it could send millions of troops to subjugate Taiwan. China doesn't have the amphibious transport capability to send hundreds of thousands of troops into Taiwan. Also, China has a military command structure similar to Russia's. They currently fight like they came out of WW I. Its unlikely that China's air force could operate useful

          • In the near future, the US (and Europe) cannot afford to lose TSMC as semiconductor foundry. So my wild guess is that the US will at least try to fight off the Chinese navy and air force if they start an invasion.
            I'm not sure if the US are willing to station troops on Taiwan, but sinking a bunch of Chinese troop transports could already make a big difference.

        • The other comment is good but there is also another angle.

          Globalism is breaking down especially depending on policies with COVID. This has caused huge delays in the supply chains for semiconductors. The US and EU are both pushing policy to get that production domestic because it's so vital for almost everything.

          In fact the article outlines this issue. No one is trading with Russia except China, so China can now dump all its sub quality batches of semiconductors on them. What can they do except take it up th

          • No one is trading with Russia except China

            No, India too. They're also getting a lot of things cheap from Russia these days. That's why they haven't condemned Russia's actions either.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It's down to two things.

          Firstly, the attack on Huawei wasn't quite as effective as hoped. Huawei developed much of the critical technology for 5G, and continues to stay ahead in other areas. So naturally everyone bought Huawei gear, rather than waiting years for Western companies to catch up.

          Those Western companies didn't step up their R&D game though, meaning this is going to happen again. To prevent that they are hoping that denying Huawei and other leading Chinese companies access to as much technolo

          • Thanks for that analysis - it fills in some missing pieces for me and paints a pretty credible picture of what's going on.
          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            Western companies need a good hard slap in the face to get them going. They've been over-charging and resting on their laurels for way too long. That's why I was able to buy a mostly assembled and functional Chinese 3D printer for less than the cost of the parts from Western sellers.

            The printer itself is fully documented including tech drawings, schematics, and firmware source code. But it's still cheaper to buy it from China than it is to source the parts and DIY it, even if I value my own time and trouble

      • by DrXym ( 126579 )
        Or more likely all the good foundries that have a reputation, business relationships and standards to uphold are already at 100% capacity with customers in above-board arrangements.

        Whereas the the ones serving the grey market with knockoff and clone components don't care where their chips go or even if they work properly or not. And Russia companies are probably sourcing through middle men & dealers so they have no idea where they came from either. It all ends up being a total clusterfuck.

    • They dont need to "help" Russia. No matter how this idiotic war ends, the only guaranteed outcome for Russia is, that at the end China is going to own Russia.

      GG Putin, Russia Strong, right?

    • 40% of chips already fail from the factory.
      The remaining 60% will only fail quickly after leaving the assembly line.

      • by stabiesoft ( 733417 ) on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @08:46AM (#62979877) Homepage
        I think probably true. I read stories all the time about people who buy "new old stock" from alibaba claiming it is some power transistor. After they open up one after it fails they see a tiny transistor that is about 1/10th the size of a real one. It is hard for me to believe it can be profitable to drop a die into a TO-3 package, label it as say a Toshiba part correctly and sell it in small quantities, but it seems to be done very frequently. It is one of the reasons I only buy from authorized distributors. Who wants the hassle of knowing if a part is real or not. But Russia right now cannot get parts from reliable sources. And apparently not just transistors, all sorts of IC's too. That fantastic price on an OPA from alibaba may really be a 741 inside. Buyer beware.
  • by Sitnalta ( 1051230 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:14PM (#62978661)

    China should just write the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition into their constitution.

    • Re:At this point... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @10:05PM (#62978755)
      Hahahaha. Sadly, China's just gotten started dismantling the semi-capitalism that they've been nurturing for the past 20 years. They value control first, stability second, and economics is a way far distant third. For all China's talk about avoiding the mistakes of Russia, they're heading towards the same destination. It's just that they're 30 years behind.
      .
      If they'd adopted western democracy and capitalism, they would have replaced the US as the top dog sometime around 2050. The way things are going? Their GDP per capita is about the same as Russia, and I'll be genuinely surprised if it rises much more. Xi is locking the economy down and independent thought is no longer welcome. The guy is probably going to be in power for another 10-15 years, and you can dismantle 50 years of progress in that amount of time.
      .
      He'll achieve his goals of control and stability, though. Mission accomplished.
      • They value control first, stability second,

        Aren't stability and control just two sides of the same coin?

        • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @11:29PM (#62978907)

          Aren't stability and control just two sides of the same coin?

          No.

          Market economies have stable supplies of goods and services, yet no one is "in control" of setting either production or prices.

          Top-down economies suffer from empty shelves and black markets as central planners misjudge demand and misprice products.

          • Market economies have stable supplies of goods and services, yet no one is "in control" of setting either production or prices.

            I'm not sure that's true. Certainly we have toilet paper problems from time to time.

          • Yet, US economic might largely derives from huge military spending. Central planning and mispriced products to the max.
            • Yet, US economic might largely derives from huge military spending.

              How does high military spending lead to economic might?

              Most economists see military spending as an unproductive resource drain that lowers economic growth.

              • by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @08:07AM (#62979785)
                Have you really not heard of the military-industrial-complex? It's also the largest socialist program in the history of the world.

                It's basically a large Keynesian stimulation package that is forever ongoing, forever giving industry something to do, and something to aim for, for a customer with endless supply of money.

                Do you really think it is merely a coincidence that US military spending is the highest in the world, while also having the largest economy in the world?

                Did you really forget how the internet started? The internet that ultimately gave rise to 10s to 100s billion dollar money machines like Google and Amazon, and you could argue Microsoft and Apple in today's internet economy?

                Are you really under the delusion that good old fashioned free market economics is what really drives the US economy?
              • War is unproductive. Training a fighting force and equipping them is not.

    • Thanks for a genuine LOL moment.

  • by algaeman ( 600564 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:20PM (#62978675)
    The good chips are for closers.
  • by Eunomion ( 8640039 ) on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:50PM (#62978715)
    Every scammer, thief, and intelligence agency in the world is running game on them, selling them malfunctioning trash at huge markups.

    The world is coming for that ass.
  • That is the crap that was going into the Chinese built stuff for the west. The high failure rate of consumer goods is because of that shit.
    Problem is, that Russia is trying to use those SAME chips in their weapons. GOOD LUCK ASSHOLES.
  • So basically China are now treating Russia with the same level of respect they treat the rest of the world. Ie. None what so ever.
  • by bluegutang ( 2814641 ) on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @12:43AM (#62979001)

    Nobody else is willing to sell sophisticated goods to Russia (due to sanctions). So China can sell them whatever trash and Russia just has to deal with it. If Russia doesn't like that, they can always leave Ukraine, it's not that hard, just order the vehicles to do a 3 point turn and start driving the other way.

    • Vehicles are stuck in mud with failed Chinese tires.

      Anyone else getting the idea that Xi tricked Putin into this?

  • If a country is sourcing knockoff parts from China then of course it is going to be hit with quality issues. Something might look the same from the outside but that doesn't mean it's the same on the inside especially with semi-conductors.
  • That’s what you get when ordering chips on Ali Express. Seriously this is not unusual, any chip that has any value is faked and sold on Ali express. Seeing as Russ is cut off from the western market for semiconductors they will be buying from middle men. If they are lucky they will get genuine parts from deliberate overruns going out of the back door. Some might be QC fail parts that have found their way onto the market, but most will just be any random chip remarked to look like the chip that is want
  • That is "tested and found bad". Well, another thing Putin probably did not expect.

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