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Power Iphone Apple

Apple Hit With Yet Another 'Batterygate' Lawsuit (zdnet.com) 62

Posted by BeauHD from the here-we-go-again dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ZDNet: The memory of "Batterygate" continues to be a thorn in Apple's side. In case you need a reminder, "Batterygate" refers to a 2016/17 scandal where Apple added an undocumented battery throttling capabilities to iOS 10.2.1 designed to slow the performance of the iPhone if the battery was deemed to be worn. It also came with unexpected side effects, causing handsets to reboot in cold weather or when the battery's charge level was low. The feature was initially rolled out to iPhone 6, iPhone 6s, and iPhone SE and later expanded to include the iPhone 7, 7 Plus, 8, 8 Plus and iPhone X models.

This latest UK-based multimillion-pound legal claim has been launched by Justin Gutmann, a consumer rights campaigner, and alleges that Apple deliberately misled users, and rather than roll out a battery recall or replacement program; the company instead pushed out this feature to cover up the fact that older iPhone batteries were not able to cope with the new power demands put on them.

Apple did eventually roll out a $29 battery replacement program, a program that saw the company carry out 11 million battery replacements in 2018, compared to the 1 to 2 million that would normally be carried out in a year. This resulted in Apple issuing a profit warning in January 2019, the company's first since 2002. If Apple loses, the company could be forced to pay damages of more than $950m to the 25 million people who purchased affected iPhones. Following the US settlement in March 2020, Apple agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over the same issue, paying out $25 per iPhone, with the total capped at $310m. "We have never -- and would never -- do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades," Apple said in a statement on Thursday. "Our goal has always been to create products that our customers love, and making iPhones last as long as possible is an important part of that."
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Apple Hit With Yet Another 'Batterygate' Lawsuit More

Apple Hit With Yet Another 'Batterygate' Lawsuit

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  • um wtf.

    Last line
    "We have never -- and would never -- do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product.

    First Line
    "Batterygate" refers to a 2016/17 scandal where Apple added an undocumented battery throttling capabilities

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by splutty ( 43475 )

      Nono! You misunderstand! That was to *extend* the life of the phone and battery!

      By making it really slow and buggy! Uhm. I mean. By... Reducing the power draw. Yes. Reducing the power draw, that's what I meant to say. Nothing to do with performance or crashes. At all.

    • Re:Lying thru their teeth? (Score:4, Informative)

      by edwdig ( 47888 ) on Friday June 17, 2022 @06:40PM (#62629814)

      The throttling kept the phone running when the battery wasn't capable of providing enough power for normal operations. The alternative is the phone just shuts off when you try to use it. It's extending the life of the phone.

      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        by saloomy ( 2817221 )
        This. Surprising the expected level of understanding on /. vs the observed.

      • No. Litiium Ion batteries dont drop voltage like that. The kind of battery technology that did that, has never been used in iPhones.

        • No. Litiium Ion batteries dont drop voltage like that. The kind of battery technology that did that, has never been used in iPhones.

          Really?

          Ohm's Law says you are full of it.

          • What does Ohms law have to do with the power curve of batteries?

            The modern day batteries have been designed to keep a consistent high voltage and amp for as long as possible, and then collapse fast at the end of it. And that curve is played out every single day as it loses power. Over time it can't get as full, but even if it is 5 years old and only have 25% power left, it can still run the device almost as well as it could at new at around 25% full. Using less power might extend battery life when on low po

            • What does Ohms law have to do with the power curve of batteries?

              The modern day batteries have been designed to keep a consistent high voltage and amp for as long as possible, and then collapse fast at the end of it. And that curve is played out every single day as it loses power. Over time it can't get as full, but even if it is 5 years old and only have 25% power left, it can still run the device almost as well as it could at new at around 25% full. Using less power might extend battery life when on low power, but it doesn't make it run when it otherwise wouldn't ;)

              Yes, yes it does. Here's why:

              Disregarding cold temperature issues (which sort of acts like an old battery, too), Internal resistance rises in older batteries. That's why they can't produce enough current; so, when asked to do something that requires more current (with an old battery), the voltage (temporarily) collapses. That's why Ohm's Law applies. And when this happens, the Device, starved for voltage, crashes.

              What else did you think Apple was trying to avoid?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The issue is that Apple didn't make buyers aware that after a few years their phone would get extremely slow and require a costly repair, by design. Most other phone manufacturers are guilty of that too.

        • The issue is that Apple didn't make buyers aware that after a few years their phone would get extremely slow and require a costly repair, by design. Most other phone manufacturers are guilty of that too.

          Costly?

          You spend $1k on a phone and then think that $50 or $70 to replace the battery with a genuine OEM part using OEM repair facilities, personnel and equipment after 3 or 4 years is "costly"?

          Well, alrighty then!

          https://support.apple.com/ipho... [apple.com]

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Out of warranty it's £70 in the UK. iPhones start at £420.

            I'm sure they were not losing money when they offered to do it for £30. In my book this puts them on a par with HP's prices for printer ink, profiteering.

            • Out of warranty it's £70 in the UK. iPhones start at £420.

              I'm sure they were not losing money when they offered to do it for £30. In my book this puts them on a par with HP's prices for printer ink, profiteering.

              Would you like to Post that without resorting to Unicode?

  • Summary totally blew it (Score:4, Informative)

    by edwdig ( 47888 ) on Friday June 17, 2022 @06:38PM (#62629802)

    It also came with unexpected side effects, causing handsets to reboot in cold weather or when the battery's charge level was low.

    The throttling was the fix for those problems. They weren't side effects.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by splutty ( 43475 )

      The actual fix would've been to actually release a version of the OS that would still run normally on those phones.

      • Re:Summary totally blew it (Score:5, Informative)

        by edwdig ( 47888 ) on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:17PM (#62629924)

        It ran normally unless your battery couldn't supply enough power to run the CPU at full speed. Once you're in that scenario, your only options are to slow things down to reduce power draw, or shut down completely.

        • It ran normally unless your battery couldn't supply enough power to run the CPU at full speed. Once you're in that scenario, your only options are to slow things down to reduce power draw, or shut down completely.

          It ran slower once you got the update, whether your battery was tired or not (because maybe you took good care of it by short-cycling and slow-charging it.) Once you're in that scenario you're right, but they were in that scenario because they skimped on battery discharge rate in a way that didn't take aging into account. Either they failed at projecting battery degradation, or they knew that the battery would degraded before the devices failed. Either way, it was planned obsolescence. Their "fix" only prov

          • Either they failed at projecting battery degradation

            The batteries lasted beyond the warranty period.

            or they knew that the battery would degraded before the devices failed.

            Battery failure = device failure. They were trying to keep your device working right for longer out of warranty with a battery that lost its ability to provide sufficient current to a device that was at max tilt.

            • The batteries lasted beyond the warranty period.

              This is not a satisfactory lifespan for a device where it's a PITA and/or expensive to replace the batteries. The biosphere cannot sustain a throwaway culture.

              • The batteries lasted beyond the warranty period.

                This is not a satisfactory lifespan for a device where it's a PITA and/or expensive to replace the batteries. The biosphere cannot sustain a throwaway culture.

                $50 for OEM battery replacement on any phone likely to need it (or $70 if your phone is really too new to need a new battery) is like complaining that you have to change the oil in your car for $40 every 15,000 miles.

                https://support.apple.com/ipho... [apple.com]

                Until someone comes up with an energy-storage technology that lasts forever, and is practical fir a handheld device, I think that Apple is more than compliant with battery lifetime, and very reasonable with replacement costs ($50) and covered models (back to iPh

                • It would seem reasonable if you didn't know that even most cheap android phones will work for years. I've got practically antique Motos that are still working fine.

                  • It would seem reasonable if you didn't know that even most cheap android phones will work for years. I've got practically antique Motos that are still working fine.

                    Still seems reasonable.

                    And I'm sure you have other Android phones that needed new batteries; so now what?

                    • And I'm sure you have other Android phones that needed new batteries; so now what?

                      The only Android devices I've ever had to replace the batteries on have been tablets. Nook Simple Touch and Nexus 7. I need to do them both again because I didn't use good enough batteries, but that's on me. Literally none of my Android phones have ever stopped working. One did come apart, without the battery swelling mind, and it still works too. Fucking adhesive bullshit.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by edwdig ( 47888 )

                This is not a satisfactory lifespan for a device where it's a PITA and/or expensive to replace the batteries. The biosphere cannot sustain a throwaway culture.

                For most users, iPhone degrade to only holding 80% of their original charge after 3-4 years. Most people replace their phone every 2-3 years. For the vast majority of people, the tech in the phone is obsolete long before the battery becomes unusable.

          • Re:Summary totally blew it (Score:4, Insightful)

            by edwdig ( 47888 ) on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:23PM (#62630260)

            It ran slower once you got the update, whether your battery was tired or not (because maybe you took good care of it by short-cycling and slow-charging it.) Once you're in that scenario you're right, but they were in that scenario because they skimped on battery discharge rate in a way that didn't take aging into account. Either they failed at projecting battery degradation, or they knew that the battery would degraded before the devices failed. Either way, it was planned obsolescence. Their "fix" only proved that their design was either a failure, or consumer-hostile; either one puts the lie to their claims of user-friendliness.

            The update was a safety that did nothing under normal scenarios. It's a failsafe feature. The vast majority of the problems this was designed to deal with fell into one of two cases:

            1) You used the phone outdoors in winter weather. Lithium batteries don't work well when they're cold. I personally ran into the issue a lot when I was walking outdoors when the temperature was below freezing. Keeping Google Maps up, with the screen, GPS, data, and audio potentially going simultaneously was enough to push the power draw over the threshold. It even happened when the phone was brand new. Even a brand new battery couldn't supply enough power if it was cold enough.

            2) You did too many things at once. With a brand new battery and ideal temperatures, the max power output of the battery was enough for normal use cases, but not enough to meet the maximum potential draw of the device. If managed to use enough features at once, you could overload the battery. Record video with intense filters enabled with driving directions on and Netflix overlaid on top of what you're doing, all over a 5G cell connection kind of scenarios. Stress levels that the vast majority of people won't come close to encountering.

            Battery age could cause the throttling, but you'd have to abuse the hell out of the battery for years to get to that point. Most people are replacing the phone long long before the battery can cause throttling issues.

        • No, there is another option: don't install the update. Many people don't care about all the new crap, and they just want their phone to perform the same as when they bought it. Apple could have been up-front about the potential performance issues with a warning that the new firmware require CPU throttling on older phones, and that if you're happy with the way your phone is running now, you may be better off staying with the older firmware. Apple aggressively pushes software update notifications, and they

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          If they just made it easy to replace the battery then people wouldn't be upset if a message popped up saying "your battery is knackered, replace it to restore performance."

          If your battery cannot be replaced by the user, and requires them to give you their phone for days or weeks, as well as a heft chunk of change, it bloody well better last the lifetime of the device.

          • If they just made it easy to replace the battery then people wouldn't be upset if a message popped up saying "your battery is knackered, replace it to restore performance."

            If your battery cannot be replaced by the user, and requires them to give you their phone for days or weeks, as well as a heft chunk of change, it bloody well better last the lifetime of the device.

            Apple says mostly they can replace your battery while you wait at an Apple Store, and 3-5 days if it has to be mailed. They will even send you a mailer in case you don't live handy to a store. $6.95 shipping.

            https://support.apple.com/ipho... [apple.com]

            Plus, you have to live in the middle of nowhere to not have a third-party cellphone repair facility that can replace that battery in an hour or two with a Chinese knockoff and charge you more than twice what Apple charges.

            Seriously: You are complaining about taking your

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              If they can fix it while you wait in store then the £70 they charge here is even more of a rip off. The fact that they go out of their way to stop third parties replacing the battery cheaper, and it took state level legal action to force them to even offer an official way to do it, says a lot.

              • If they can fix it while you wait in store then the £70 they charge here is even more of a rip off. The fact that they go out of their way to stop third parties replacing the battery cheaper, and it took state level legal action to force them to even offer an official way to do it, says a lot.

                When did Apple stop third parties from blah blah?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by edwdig ( 47888 )

            If your battery cannot be replaced by the user, and requires them to give you their phone for days or weeks, as well as a heft chunk of change, it bloody well better last the lifetime of the device.

            Getting the battery replaced takes under an hour. You go to the store, sign in, tell them what you're there for, and they tell you how long the wait is and text you when your turn in line is coming up. You hand them the phone and they tell you to come back in about 45 minutes. They make it as painless as could be.

      • The actual fix would've been to actually release a version of the OS that would still run normally on those phones.

        They did. And got excoriated for it.

        BTW, WTF is the civil Statute of Limitations in the U.K? This suit would be untimely in most, if not all, places in the U.S.

      • The actual fix would've been to actually release a version of the OS that would still run normally on those phones.

        I.e. Crashed the whole system? They did. They made the throttling a toggle setting in the Settings app, allowing you to see your device spontaneously crash under some circumstances, rather than throttling down in a reasonable manner so you could keep using it. Meanwhile, those of us with devices too old to support throttling had no choice, so any time I was low on charge and got linked to a page that loaded a few too many ads, I could count on my device suddenly shutting down. I’d have loved the throt

  • I don't know why people are apologizing this action by Apple. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the throttling is to prevent abrupt shut downs, why is it still done on a phone with a battery that needs it whilst such a device is connected to a charger?

    And having worked on phone power management circuit design, yes, the phone's processors can switch back down fast enough when the power cord is pulled.

    There is simply no other explanation than malice or incompetence, and in the latter case they

    • I don't know why people are apologizing this action by Apple. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the throttling is to prevent abrupt shut downs, why is it still done on a phone with a battery that needs it whilst such a device is connected to a charger?

      And having worked on phone power management circuit design, yes, the phone's processors can switch back down fast enough when the power cord is pulled.

      There is simply no other explanation than malice or incompetence, and in the latter case they could have put out another bugfix. Which they haven't.

      You are an imbecile.

      • Why thank you for this complete and fully logical rebuttal. Happen to own Apple shares or are you just a fanboy?

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