Radioactive 'Souvenirs' from Chernobyl May Have Been Taken by Looting Russian Soldiers (voanews.com) 133
Earlier this week the Voice of America news service shared a story that begins with exclusive photos from a nuclear lab "from which a Ukrainian official says Russian troops stole radioactive material that could be harmful if mishandled...."
It is housed in a building run by a state agency managing the exclusion zone around Chernobyl's nearby decommissioned nuclear power plant, where a 1986 explosion caused the world's worst nuclear accident. The director of the agency, Evgen Kramarenko, provided the laboratory photos to VOA, saying he took them on an April 5 visit, five days after Russian troops withdrew from Chernobyl....
"We have a laboratory that had a big quantity of radioactive instruments that are used to calibrate our radiation dosimeters," Kramarenko told VOA. A dosimeter is a safety device, typically worn by individuals as a badge, that measures exposure to ionizing radiation, including nuclear radiation. The agency's dosimeters are calibrated using small metallic containers of radioactive material made by Ukrainian state enterprise USIE Izotop, which displays a photo of them on its website.
"Most of those calibration instruments were stolen. They look like coins. If the Russian soldiers carry them around, it's very dangerous for them," Kramarenko said....
In a Saturday Facebook post, Kramarenko's agency said occupying Russian troops stole samples of fuel-containing materials from the lab in addition to the radioactive calibration instruments. The agency said it was possible that the Russians threw away the items elsewhere in Chernobyl's exclusion zone, but that a likelier scenario is that they kept items as "souvenirs."
"We have a laboratory that had a big quantity of radioactive instruments that are used to calibrate our radiation dosimeters," Kramarenko told VOA. A dosimeter is a safety device, typically worn by individuals as a badge, that measures exposure to ionizing radiation, including nuclear radiation. The agency's dosimeters are calibrated using small metallic containers of radioactive material made by Ukrainian state enterprise USIE Izotop, which displays a photo of them on its website.
"Most of those calibration instruments were stolen. They look like coins. If the Russian soldiers carry them around, it's very dangerous for them," Kramarenko said....
In a Saturday Facebook post, Kramarenko's agency said occupying Russian troops stole samples of fuel-containing materials from the lab in addition to the radioactive calibration instruments. The agency said it was possible that the Russians threw away the items elsewhere in Chernobyl's exclusion zone, but that a likelier scenario is that they kept items as "souvenirs."
My sympathy meter (Score:5, Funny)
My sympathy meter is pegged in the opposite direction of their dosimeters.
Enjoy the cancer.
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My sympathy meter is pegged in the opposite direction of their dosimeters.
Enjoy the cancer.
I get it That's clever, and funny, but the Russian lads picking up souvenirs in Chernobyl possibly are worth neither the scorn they receive, nor the testicular cancer that materializes out of nowhere years from now. (Assuming front pocket souvenir storage :v)
There have been enough phone calls home to Mama by captured Russian conscripts to lead me to believe many of them would rather be almost anywhere else.
Reportedly, many were exposed to increased radiation levels while stationed in Chernobyl because they
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Reportedly, many were exposed to increased radiation levels while stationed in Chernobyl because they were made to dig trenches and foxholes in contaminated soil.
That pretty well speaks to just how obsolete Russia's tactics are. While there remain good practical uses for digging trenches and foxholes, this really isn't a situation that called for it. You can't move trenches and foxholes when you need to. You can move sandbags though, and they're just as effective for the same purpose. You only dig when that just isn't an option. It just wears out your soldiers both in terms of morale and energy they need to fight. Though if they were really prepared, they would have
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This is what propaganda does. It dehumanizes to the point where we gleefully talk about another human suffering.
I lost a family member to cancer. It's not something to mod +1 funny, not even if it happens to your enemy.
Re: My sympathy meter (Score:2)
Well said sir.
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Of course it's not about me.
I'm just illustrating that anyone who wishes or is happy about someone else getting cancer is a monster.
Re: My sympathy meter (Score:2)
Poetic justice (Score:3)
is what I would say if I wasn't aware that a clueless Russian soldier dying of radiation poisoning is first and foremost a dying human being.
If they took all those radioactive pellets back with them with a view to shove them all up Putin's ass though, well I'm all for that.
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If they took all those radioactive pellets back with them with a view to shove them all up Putin's ass though, well I'm all for that.
Or drop them in his tea.
I think it's pretty obvious, though, that Putin is ultra paranoid and it'd be hard to get close enough to him to do that. Those meeting photos where everyone but him is clustered at the far end of a 15-foot-long table are mind-blowing. Just more evidence that the little spymaster has significant issues on many levels.
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Re: Poetic justice (Score:2)
I read an article the other day about the extreme lack of knowledge many conscripted Russian troops suffer from. About 20% of Russian houses have no internal plumbing, and conscripts from the poorest of these areas have never even seen an flush toilet, being so surprised at them when entering Ukrainian homes the commandeer the toilet seats when leaving, and telling the flabbergasted owners those will come in handy for their outhouses.
Given that, it's no surprise these utterly uneducated soldiers have no ide
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conscripts from the poorest of these areas have never even seen an flush toilet
That is nonsense. You should get your news from better sources.
being so surprised at them when entering Ukrainian homes
Russia has three times the per capita GDP of Ukraine, so it is unlikely they are surprised by anything they see in a Ukrainian home. Ukrainians are much more likely than Russians to lack flush toilets and indoor plumbing.
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Russia has three times the per capita GDP of Ukraine, so it is unlikely they are surprised by anything
That's an equally nonsense argument. Russia's income and wealth are highly concentrated among the top 1% they are among the most unequal countries in the world economically. A country's GDP says nothing about the distribution of that country's wealth or what products different groups within the population have access to.
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Russia has less income inequality than America, Britain, Japan, or Australia.
Income inequality by country [oecd.org]
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You should get your news from better sources.
Better than The Moscow Times? [themoscowtimes.com]
Russia has three times the per capita GDP of Ukraine
You're confusing the richer parts of Russia with the poorer ones. The country has a huge rent disparity. The conscripts I referred to come from the poorest places.
Re: Poetic justice (Score:2)
Re: Poetic justice (Score:5, Informative)
Russia has the oligarchs that custom order yachts worth hundreds of millions.
Russia also has the "center of Moscow" area which is as affluent as any other European capital.
Yet, Russia also has villages in the middle of nowhere with monthly income of $50-$70 per month.
There is a huge discrepancy between the "have"s and "have not"s in Russia, much more so than in other civilized countries.
Re: Poetic justice (Score:2)
How unfortunate that they aren't getting their heads blew off when trying to steal other peoples toilets. Fuck these Russian aggressors they deserve no sympathy. if they want sympathy then they need to turn their guns on their masters. Until then they are subhuman pieces of shit that deserve nothing but the most inhumane of treatment.
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(...) they are subhuman pieces of shit that deserve nothing but the most inhumane of treatment
You're partially true, but Saint Paul beat you. According him all men deserve Hell, no exceptions whatsoever.
Yes, that includes you.
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It's neither unethical nor immoral to wish bad things upon bad people, particularly when it means they can no longer do bad things. I don't see any harm in wishing extreme poverty/destitution for those who provide logistical (economic) support to Russian soldiers either, up to and including starvation if that is what it requires to end Putin's little Wehrmacht.
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is what I would say if I wasn't aware that a clueless Russian soldier dying of radiation poisoning is first and foremost a dying human being.
Are you saying they didn't know they were in Chernobyl or that there's radiation there?
This is a Darwin award candidate at best.
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The first victim in a despotism is education.
Most of them had no idea about what they were doing. The Russian armies have lots of officers (partially to compensate for a lack of carrier sergeants and the like), so the education of the conscripts is not a priority.
I'm not sure Chernobyl is "required reading" in Russia, and I doubt it was required reading in Soviet Union.
That should make it easy (Score:5, Funny)
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We need to send in the ghost of Terry Davis. He will run them over with his car.
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radiation poisoning (Score:2)
Darwin Award (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess this is a lock for 2022.
Ineptitutude (Score:5, Informative)
The whole war seems like a farce at time, what someone might put into a novel as an exaggeration, except that it's real and not funny. It is like all the soldiers were told to go in and invade but not really given further instructions. The officers of different units don't seem to communicate much, and when they do it's listened in on by Ukraine. So the individual groups aren't coordinated and so it all becomes random - the groups that don't want to be there surrender or just sit around, the groups with a more thuggish bent just kill civilians because there is no discipline and no possibility of being court martialed. The shelling seems random and without any military purpose.
It's one thing to take this approach in Syria, when you're just helping out one side of a civil war against the loosely knit and disorganized rebels, and Assad gives you permissions to randomly bomb anyone. But it's insane to think it would make sense in a more serious military theater.
If you dont' have discipline in the ranks, then you shouldn't be starting a war...
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The whole war seems like a farce at time, what someone might put into a novel as an exaggeration, except that it's real and not funny. It is like all the soldiers were told to go in and invade but not really given further instructions.
They kept the troops in the dark about literally where they were even going, and they're having communication problems that prevent them from efficiently coordinating anything. It's a miracle they haven't been attacking themselves.
If you dont' have discipline in the ranks, then you shouldn't be starting a war...
Nobody should be starting a war. The only people who purely benefit are the arms dealers, and other shady fucks who take advantage of wartime to make a buck. Everyone else suffers.
Re:Ineptitutude (Score:5, Informative)
and they're having communication problems that prevent them from efficiently coordinating anything.
It's one of many reasons Russia lost its seventh general [twitter.com] in 51 days of this war. The post says eighth, but video evidence shows one has apparently not been killed.
This is in addition to the 33 colonels Russia has lost (that are known).
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8th. They just sent one to prison over the sinking of that ship that they claim sank while being towed after mysteriously catching on fire.
Out of action is out of action. It makes no difference which side harms them. They're a loss either way.
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My understanding is Russia's secure system went dead from day one. They've had to fall back to analogue radio, which is being jammed, and cellphones, which is being monitored.
Nothing has been said about the why of the secure system failure. Which makes me think NSA has it back-doored in hardware.
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My understanding is Russia's secure system went dead from day one. They've had to fall back to analogue radio, which is being jammed, and cellphones, which is being monitored.
Nothing has been said about the why of the secure system failure. Which makes me think NSA has it back-doored in hardware.
They've been using those cheap Chinese Handi-talkies called Baofeng. https://defence-blog.com/russi... [defence-blog.com]
Looks like an older model, I have a number of them. Not great, not terrible, but really inexpensive.
I believe that what Russia is exhibiting is what happens to a once fearsome and potent army under a few decades of Oligarchy. From a superpower, now reduced to using 25 dollar communication equipment. And those death star tanks. 8^0
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They've been using those cheap Chinese Handi-talkies called Baofeng. https://defence-blog.com/russi... [defence-blog.com]
Looks like an older model, I have a number of them. Not great, not terrible, but really inexpensive.
I believe that what Russia is exhibiting is what happens to a once fearsome and potent army under a few decades of Oligarchy. From a superpower, now reduced to using 25 dollar communication equipment. And those death star tanks. 8^0
I also have one, I can understand them having communication issues if they are using those. My 1990s vintage Realistic HTX-202 has much better sound quality and range (even on an external antenna).
Aaron Z
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They've been using those cheap Chinese Handi-talkies called Baofeng. https://defence-blog.com/russi... [defence-blog.com]
Looks like an older model, I have a number of them. Not great, not terrible, but really inexpensive.
I believe that what Russia is exhibiting is what happens to a once fearsome and potent army under a few decades of Oligarchy. From a superpower, now reduced to using 25 dollar communication equipment. And those death star tanks. 8^0
I also have one, I can understand them having communication issues if they are using those. My 1990s vintage Realistic HTX-202 has much better sound quality and range (even on an external antenna).
Aaron Z
I have a HTX-202 as well. Radio Shack hit a home run with those. I have to replace the internal battery at this point to keep it from losing the memories. Might be a project for this afternoon.
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I have a HTX-202 as well. Radio Shack hit a home run with those. I have to replace the internal battery at this point to keep it from losing the memories. Might be a project for this afternoon.
I had to do that to mine a few years back. Its been working well since.
Aaron Z
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That's the crappy fallback. Why did their secure system go down?
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That's the crappy fallback. Why did their secure system go down?
It's looking like corruption has choked off the supply. The R-187P1 Azart is a modern (around 2000) military communications device. But apparently there aren't any now.
I hope that US voters are taking note that this is where they are headed if they want to reinstall Trump's version of America.
The corruption that lies at the base of Oligarchy spreads through a country that adopts it as an ideology.
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It failed to operate at all. A system that was working, suddenly stopped. That's not a supply problem.
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It failed to operate at all. A system that was working, suddenly stopped. That's not a supply problem.
https://rusi.org/explore-our-r... [rusi.org]
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My understanding is the secure system stopped dead. But you appear to be implying it wasn't even in use - because very little of that equipment operationally existed. Improbably as that might seem. One might not want to plan to start a war when comms is a known major problem.
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My understanding is the secure system stopped dead. But you appear to be implying it wasn't even in use - because very little of that equipment operationally existed. Improbably as that might seem. One might not want to plan to start a war when comms is a known major problem.
Ain't that the truth. I think that there wasn't an expectation of any resistance, and since there was effective resistance, it showed how ill trained and poorly equipped their army was.
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Lol, I'm questioning your argument.
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War is the only way to remove a murderous tyrant. When you have someone that is literally willing to kill civilians, he can't be stopped by internal revolt. People like that have ruled countries since time began.
In that case, if the war removes the tyrant, the people under him benefit tremendously and it is usually worth the deaths in war if only because future deaths are prevented.
So, ask yourself is Putin worth a war? I would say yes. Only problem is the war is in Ukraine when it should be in Russia
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War is the only way to remove a murderous tyrant.
That is plainly and obviously false. He can be assassinated from within or without, for example. Obviously, if you don't want to risk starting a war, within is best.
People act like it's impossible for Putin to be assassinated, and indeed he's raised the bar significantly and knows what to watch out for having arranged more than a few of 'em. But one man is only ever one man, and can never watch everyone all the time by definition.
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I'd rather countries without discipline in the ranks start a war and be unsuccessful than countries WITH discipline in the ranks (like the US) start one and be able to carry it on for years. Iraq and Afghanistan wastes about $10 trillion and destroyed countless lives. The money alone could have gone to domestic programs here in the US.
Fuck wars, fuck the countries that start them, and fuck the invading soldiers that fight them. Russian soldiers deserve what they get, and their commanders deserve to be pu
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Hating America just causes more genocides in the world.
"The US isn't the world's policeman!" "Why didn't the US stop all the bad people yet? It's their fault there are still bad people!"
Fuck wars
You're a man-child, who contributes to war and genocide by engaging in cynical both-sides-ism. You should be hanged for your war crimes.
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Hating America just causes more genocides in the world.
"The US isn't the world's policeman!" "Why didn't the US stop all the bad people yet? It's their fault there are still bad people!"
Fuck wars
You're a man-child, who contributes to war and genocide by engaging in cynical both-sides-ism. You should be hanged for your war crimes.
Damn! You use your Napalm early this Saturday evening. Well played sir!
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The officers of different units don't seem to communicate much, and when they do it's listened in on by Ukraine.
Russia used all their tech exploits for cybercrime. Western countries saved theirs. For a special time. It isn't really that surprising they don't have secure coms.
They also don't have a professional military. They rely on conscripts and "contract" soldiers. Many of whom are forced to sign the contract. Contract soldiers are not on a career path. It is not quite the same as a volunteer.
Their command and control is so bad that when they found that hazing of first-year conscripts by second-year conscripts was
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They have a culture of kleptocracy in their logistics. All supplies are pinched at each level. Sending equipment for "refit" can actually reduce the quality of the equipment.
Further instructions may or may not have existed, but what good would it have done?
This was before the fall of the USSR, but in 1981, there was a great example of the kleptocracy and the stupidity of it's practitioners . On Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU1f47SC_A8
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Good video. I liked learning that the first factory in USSR to make toilet paper was _after_ Sputnik.
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Good video. I liked learning that the first factory in USSR to make toilet paper was _after_ Sputnik.
I understand that the present day Russian soldiers, esp the ones from the more rural parts, have gone into Ukranian houses, and been shocked at the level of modern conveniences, like indoor flush toilets.
We have to understand and understand well, that this is the opening shots in a war to establish Putin's Russia around the world. Want to shit in an outhouse and bucket your water into it? Dah? Then be Rootin for Pootin.
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It is like all the soldiers were told to go in and invade but not really given further instructions.
Most likely correct. Western armies used to be like that until we figured out that it's more effective to give more information down the ranks. Old-school military thinking was "lead from the top" where decisions are made as high up as possible and the lower ranks are there to implement them, no questions asked, exactly as told. Newer military thinking gives missions and goals down and leaves it up to the lower officer ranks (and sometimes down to squad leaders) HOW to accomplish them.
From all I've read, th
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" the Russian military still favors the old style"
You can't have the "new" style without high initiative and excellent training down to individual soldiers.
Which the Russians don't have, so they do their best with what they have.
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Actually, the tactics are pretty much the same in Ukraine as in Syria and Chechnya before it ...
- Deliberately target civilians (apartment buildings, churches/mosques
Calibration sources? (Score:5, Informative)
Most of the sealed calibration sources I've seen aren't active enough to be dangerous unless you pretty much dissolve one in acid and drink the solution internally. Just holding one in your pocket is unlikely to do any harm.
https://cdn2.webdamdb.com/1280... [webdamdb.com]
I'd be more worried about them stealing gamma sources that are used for radiography of welds and other things like that ... those have sufficient activity to kill a person.
Re:Calibration sources? (Score:5, Interesting)
Most calibration sources in the US are weak because they are intended to calibrate meters primarily used to detect radiation in the near-homeopathic range. Considering the context, it is possible that some of them might actually be serious emitters used for calibrating high scale meters.
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Radioactive sources with long half lives will be less radioactive and better suited to being used as a calibration reference. After all, you do not want your calibration reference changing value with time.
But I suppose a highly radioactive source could be used as a calibration reference so long as age is taken into account. Radioactive decay is reasonably predictable so they could just calculate the expected radioactive output based on a previous measurement and age. Guess it all depends on the desire
Re:Calibration sources? (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdoters are so stupid these days.
You're not using the correct context. You're using the context of calibration sources for educational equipment in a school.
You have no experience with calibration sources for sites of major nuclear disasters that have large-scale monitoring teams.
If you glanced at the story, and rubbed two brain cells together, you'd learn that calibration sources in this context are dangerous. And if you glanced at your own life, you'd find out you're not actually more qualified than the nuclear scientists running that program.
(Waiting for, "How do you know, my armchair is really fancy! You don't know me!")
Re: Calibration sources? (Score:2)
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I'm wondering what you said, but... maybe write it out in your native language, and pass it through google translate?
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(Waiting for, "How do you know, my armchair is really fancy! You don't know me!")
No. What you will get is derision for ignoring spelling rules. We are NOT SlashDOTErs. We are SlashDOTTers. :P
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" unless you pretty much dissolve one in acid and drink the solution internally"
These are Russians we are talking about...
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Speaking of eating calibration sources, maybe you've heard of this already, but that's what happened in Brazil in the Goiania accident. It was caused by scavengers stealing a hospital radiotherapy source, breaking it open not knowing what it was, and then at least one child inadvertently eating some. 4 dead and 249 irradiated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Right, but it wouldn't surprise me if some idiot got a hold of one of these calibration sources and started trying to pull it apart in a similar fashion. I bring it up only to show that yes, someone may in fact try to eat it.
Radioactive Souvenirs protect from Covid (Score:5, Funny)
This is simply new Russian military technology to deal with the pandemic, nothing to get all worked up about. By digging up and keeping radioactive materials from around Chernobyl, at those dosage levels, these soldiers *drastically* reduce their chances of dying from Covid, making it not really even an issue for them to worry about anymore.
Brilliant strategy, Putin! Perhaps he will use this same method for his own personal Covid protection.
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More likely, the Russians will collect those and then "plant" them on Russian soil, get some outside press in to witness the Geiger counters going off, and then claim it is the result of a Ukrainian dirty bomb. They'll have the right Chernobyl material composition as well.
As for the "poor" conscripts, they are complicit in the murder and rape and wanton missile strikes. They are not blameless.
Darwin! (Score:2)
This is now the front-runner for this year's Darwin Award.
Note that you don't have to die, but merely to remove yourself from the breeding pool.
Hmm, I'll just stuff this radioactive thing in my pocket as a souvenir . . .
dirty bomb usage? (Score:2)
dirty bomb usage?
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Dirty bombs turn out to be not really more dangerous than regular bombs (except to the extent that they can cause more panic): https://youtu.be/wuNxKDVG1Uk?t... [youtu.be]
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If you recall, the plot of the 1964 movie *Goldfinger* involved the Bond villain attempting to set a dirty bomb off in Fort Knox, rendering the US gold reserve "unusable" for fifty years. Aside from the fact that the contaminated gold could simply have been washed, Fort Knox only contains about 60% of US gold reserves; if you look at the physical quantity of gold the US treasury has kept for the past fifty eight years, only a small amount has actually been sold; the reserves at Denver and West Point would
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That would be the atomic bomb with all the inexplicable moving parts. The best explanation I've seen is that it was actually a hybrid atomic bomb/ice cream maker.
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Looked more like a coffee roaster to me.
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Maybe, but coffee seems too dark to me. Hard to see the vibrant Cerenkov light that you get in atomic ice cream.
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The Russians have plenty of materials for dirty bombs, they don't have to steal laboratory bench standards to make them. If it's just random guys making dirty bombs for kicks, they're going to have to mill the disks of metal into something like a fine dust, which sounds pretty hazardous.
No, the big danger is them keeping the things and passing them around, or just losing them. Apparently they're quite potent, enough to cause radiation burns if you hold them in your hand for a few minutes.
Reminds me of the Goiania accident (Score:5, Informative)
Reminds me of the Goiania accident [wikipedia.org], where thieves stole the radioactive source of a teletherapy machine from an old hospital. This is less dangerous than that probably, but it's probably even less smart - one of the few places you would not want souvenirs from is Chernobyl...
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Re:Reminds me of the Goiania accident (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect the problem here isn't that Russian soldiers were dumb enough to want souvenirs from Chernobyl. It's that large portions of the population (any country's population) don't really understand what radiation is, and based on popular movies think it just glows and gives you superpowers. No glow? Must be safe.
One of the things we've learned from interviews with the scientists at the site is that the typical Russian of military conscript age has never even heard of the Chernobyl disaster, and didn't even know they were at a nuclear facility. They were only told it was a site of "critically important infrastructure," and they have no cultural knowledge that associate it with any particular use or risk. And of those who were told about that risks that believed it, they merely re-dug their trenches a few meters further from the buildings, so they didn't even have a western-middle-school level of knowledge about radiation fallout.
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"Don't worry! We've tested this soil. If you trench out 10 more meters from the buildings, you're exposed to no more than 3.6 Roentgen... ...not great, not terrible."
restamp them as freedom coins (Score:2, Funny)
and give^Hsell them to republicans. would that be wrong? is that a bad thing?
just an idea. I'm just thinking aloud, you know, asking questions, that's all..
Possible dirty bomb (Score:2, Interesting)
If Putin loses this war, or it otherwise does not turn out quite the way he wanted, he might have his indoctrinated "jihadists" commit dirty bomb attacks on major world cities including ones in the US.
They might even be war crazed enough to pull off these attacks without official word from Putin.
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Sure, the world might end in nuclear fire.
But it won't end that way because an authoritarian didn't get what he wanted. If it ends that way, it implies an authoritarian was allowed too much.
Think of it as evolution in action (Score:2)
Sorry, but that's what it is.
Would a gamma detector not spot these? (Score:2)
I hope so (Score:2)
And I hope some dumb-ass general gives one to Putin as a present.
In case you need (Score:2)
An extra proof about idiocy in general!
Sadly, I'm not totally surprised (Score:2)
Stupid is (Score:2)
Good (Score:2)
If they can die of radiation poisoning i cheer em on to take home more " souvenirs " ... Maybe i can open a souvenir shop over there. Sell used fuel rods to them :D
If you want to be a dad... (Score:2)
... better wrap your balls in lead (translation of a common Chernobyl era joke)
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Re:Unreal (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Unreal (Score:2)
Nope many of the have committed war crimes, death is to easy for them.
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We want them to go home, not to die.
Debatable. Going home still leaves them available for future atrocities.
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He already has thyroid cancer.
https://www.news.com.au/financ... [news.com.au]
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He already has thyroid cancer.
https://www.news.com.au/financ... [news.com.au]
Keep the good thought, hopefully he is very sick.
Some people make the world a better place by being part of it. Some people make the world a better place when they are no longer part of it.
Putin is the latter case, and his death should be cause for celebration worldwide, and for generations going forward.