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Power The Military

Ukraine Says 'Lax' and 'Careless' Russian Soldiers Entered the Most Nuclear Contaminated Area on the Planet (cnn.com) 220

"The sudden ear-piercing beep of a radiation meter fills the room," reports CNN, "as a Ukrainian soldier walks in.

"This is where Russian soldiers were living at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, and radiation levels are now higher than normal." There's no visible presence of the source of the radioactive material in the room, but Ukrainian officials say it's coming from small particles and dust that the soldiers brought into the building. "They went to the Red Forest and brought radioactive material back with them on their shoes," soldier Ihor Ugolkov explains. "Other places are fine, but radiation increased here, because they were living here."

CNN was given exclusive access to the power plant for the first time since it came back into Ukrainian control. Officials at the plant explain the levels inside the room used by Russian soldiers are only slightly above what the World Nuclear Association describes as naturally occurring radiation. One-time contact would not be dangerous but continuous exposure would pose a health hazard.

"They went everywhere, and they also took some radioactive dust on them [when they left]," Ugolkov adds. It's an example of what Ukrainian officials say was the lax and careless behavior of Russian soldiers while they were in control of the site of the 1986 nuclear disaster. The area around Chernobyl, namely the Red Forest, is still the most nuclear contaminated area on the planet, with most of the radioactive particles present on the soil....

Russian soldiers held Chernobyl for a month and are thought to have been operating in contaminated areas most of the time.

Russian soldiers entered the Red Forest and dug trenches, Ukranian officials believe — and on the edge of the area CNN spotted a Russian military ration box "that exhibited radiation levels 50 times above naturally occurring values."

The 169 Ukraine National Guard soldiers, who guarded the facility, were locked in the plant's Cold War era underground nuclear bunker, crammed up in tight quarters without access to natural light, fresh air or communication with the outside world, according to the Ukrainian Interior Minister.

"They were kept here for 30 days without sufficient lighting and food. They were not allowed outside. On the last day they were taken away from here to an unknown direction," Denys Monastyrskyy says while standing inside the bunker.

The minister says he believes the men have been taken to Russia, via Belarus, as prisoners of war, but doesn't know for certain.

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Ukraine Says 'Lax' and 'Careless' Russian Soldiers Entered the Most Nuclear Contaminated Area on the Planet

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  • by burtosis ( 1124179 ) on Saturday April 09, 2022 @09:46AM (#62431748)
    I’m waiting for this incident to be upheld by Russia as “proof” that Ukraine used a dirty bomb on Russians first as an excuse to use even more severe tactics like chemical weapons. The troops likely didn’t even know where they were or what they were doing when they dug their own graves in the Red Forest.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by quenda ( 644621 )

      The whole article is "disinformation" in the sense that it fails to inform.

      Where are the numbers? The whole story sounds like a beat-up. "slightly above naturally occurring" means what??
      The radiation levels could be well below that in an airliner. Probably less than you'd get living in Colorado.

      • by nadass ( 3963991 )
        Step 1: Read the whole story (there's references to 50x "naturally occurring radiation").

        Step 2: We're in the age of the Internet; use a search engine.

        And there's no single value for naturally occurring radiation: it's not a constant like gravity. So the value of naturally occurring radiation in a decomposing banana grove is markedly different than that of the single rotting banana on your kitchen counter -- but they're both "naturally occurring" (as the name implies). This story refers to additional
      • They were in the Red Forest area, which is one of the spiciest places in the zone. I was there on a tour last summer and even on the edge of the area (near the Pripyat sign) things were getting pretty hot. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like I captured the actual level anywhere but it looks like it could be about 10 uSv/h.That would be about 100 more than typical background level if I did the math right. Not fatal but I sure as hell wouldn't want to spend a month living there.

        And this is before they dug up t

      • by Shinobi ( 19308 )

        Listen, Putinjugend, they were digging around making trenches, foxholes etc in some of the most toxic soil on earth, without protective gear. There's plenty of surveillance video of them doing it, as well as aftermath recordings too.

        So stop being a worthless, valueless propaganda drone.

    • by kick6 ( 1081615 )

      I’m waiting for this incident to be upheld by Russia as “proof” that Ukraine used a dirty bomb on Russians first as an excuse to use even more severe tactics like chemical weapons. The troops likely didn’t even know where they were or what they were doing when they dug their own graves in the Red Forest.

      Plot twist: This IS the disinformation.

      • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:27AM (#62431946)

        Ukraine: "We have stopped the Russian advance and are pushing them back."
        Russia: "That is disinformation. We are winning this war--'special operation'."
        Also Russia: "We are pulling back our troops from areas because they are 'winning' so much."

        So if Ukraine says that Russian soldiers had contaminated themselves in the Chernobyl area , I am likely to believe that. If rumors are to believed, many Russian soldier had little advance notice that they were being deployed into combat. It is not a stretch of the imagination that they did not know to which areas of Ukraine they were deployed.

    • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      Both Ukrainians and Russians are going to turn this story to their advantage, I don't know how and I don't care, but one thing is certain, we won't get the whole truth for a while, if ever.

      Seriously, I don't trust any information regarding this conflict. We are calling out Russian propaganda, for good reason, but it doesn't mean we are getting the truth either. Maybe, for once, the Chinese have better, less biased information than we (NATO members) do since they are mostly neutral while we are clearly sidin

      • Seriously, I don't trust any information regarding this conflict. We are calling out Russian propaganda, for good reason, but it doesn't mean we are getting the truth either. Maybe, for once, the Chinese have better, less biased information than we (NATO members) do since they are mostly neutral while we are clearly siding with Ukraine.

        Nope, the Chinese definitely don't have less biased information. They're pretending to be neutral in the UN (in a terrible way but w/e) but at home they're positioning this as "the west's" fault for making poor russia feel sad.

  • Nah, Russia doesn't keep POWs anymore. Those soldiers are dead.
    • by skam240 ( 789197 )

      That's probably not the case, they'll want soldiers to trade for their own that have been captured when this is all over.

      • by doug141 ( 863552 )

        Maybe Putin feels he would not benefit from repatriating Russian POWs who'd report they were told lies to start a war and kill civilians, and their unit ran out of food and fuel as if their command structure was a joke.

        • by skam240 ( 789197 )

          And make for a far higher "death" tole from soldiers not coming back home? I doubt that as well, he already has far more causalities than he anticipated. I cant find any specific numbers on a casual google search but from what I've been reading in the news it seems like there's a pretty large number of captured Russian soldiers. That's just an impression I have though.

          Putin fears his own people enough on this war that he's more or less hid most of it from them. A huge death toll would be hard to keep hidden

          • The Russians have literally been burying their soldiers at the side of roads in Ukraine. Some Russian POWs are saying they don't want to return home because they'll face the firing squad for being captured, and their families already consider them dead.

      • Base his decisions upon what he has done in the past, in Syria, Georgia, etc.

    • Well of course. They're POSMOs (rhymes with "cosmo"). Calling them POWs will get you a fine and jailtime in Russia. This is a special military operation.
  • Very likely the Russian soldiers weren't told it was a contaminated, radioactive site. Even more likely most of them would have had little or no understanding of what that means, or been given any protective gear. We have seen now how Russian soldiers do what they are told, at least while an officer is watching.

    I read somewhere (I think here) that some of the stored radioactive material has gone missing during the occupation. Anyone hear anymore on that?

    • How could anyone on the planet, let alone Russians, not know that Chernobyl is a contaminated site? Here I was thinking Russian didn't have quite so many illiterate peasants as they used to.

      • Everyone knows that Chernobyl is contaminated but does every one know the level of contamination of particular areas? After the Chernobyl plant was never fully abandoned with about 2400 people still working there. Maybe Russians seeing that people still work at the plant assumed the site is safe.
        • by _merlin ( 160982 )

          The thing is, the state of the plant site itself is well-understood. The contamination is mapped out carefully. The Red Forest isn't mapped out anywhere near as well, and there's plenty of contaminated soil that's been sitting undisturbed, so digging will spread the contamination around.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Aighearach ( 97333 )

          No. No, no, no, no, and no.

          Russian schools do not teach that Chernobyl happened as any part of general education. They've never even heard of the accident.

          And if somebody mentioned it to them, 25% chance they called the police or local party official to report that person for spreading foreign disinformation designed to make Russia look bad.

          Read any of the interviews with the scientists who work on the site about their discussions with Russian soldiers. A few did listen... and dug new trenches a little

      • How close would you have to get to Chernobyl before you realized it was Chernobyl?

        • Russian Commander: "No, that not containment dome! That large sports stadium! Where Glorious Russian Army holding enemy POWs!"

        • As long as you do not see the reactors - you probably indeed have no clue.
          Just because you are in a kind of dead forest does not mean that much, as e.g. the recent meteor impact in Russia also flattened a huge areas from trees.

          If the rumours are right, many Russian soldiers did not even know they are deployed in Ukraine.

        • What would you think if you saw a entire city simply abandoned in place like this?

          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne... [dailymail.co.uk]

          But as far as the wilderness around it (which is apparently thriving), clearly there's no visible indication. Obviously, you can't see or feel radioactive contamination.

          Look, I'd guess the average Russian soldier is on the young and ignorant side, wasn't told what was really going on, and was highly encouraged to shut-the-fuck-up-and-do-what-you're-told, like grunts in just about any army. I

        • There's all the exclusion zone warning signs themselves. If you're southbound from Belarus, I think the completely impossible to miss giveaway would be when you roll into Pripyat and you realize that here was a city for 50000 people that's been abandoned for 35 years. And given that these are mostly teens and 20 somethings, if nothing else they'll probably recognize Pripyat as "that creepy place from the video games."

          A few miles south of that, the road goes past the Chernobyl NPP site itself, complete wi
      • How could anyone on the planet, let alone Russians, not know that Chernobyl is a contaminated site? Here I was thinking Russian didn't have quite so many illiterate peasants as they used to.

        Young Orcs who were assigned to Chernobyl were asked if they understood what the site was, what the danger was. They said they were told it was "critically import infrastructure" that they were to capture and protect. When asked if they knew about what happened in 1986, they had never even heard of it.

        Orcs are not educated in things like recent history. Their education is limited to use of PEDs, cyber-crime, and if they're smart, chess. Never over-estimate the education of people who grew up under totalitar

      • How could anyone on the planet, let alone Russians, not know that Chernobyl is a contaminated site? Here I was thinking Russian didn't have quite so many illiterate peasants as they used to.

        It's probably a combination of factors:
        1) Russia doesn't want to leave a big hole in their front lines, so they're going to send soldiers into the exclusion zone. Once you're ordered in you don't have a lot of choice in the matter.

        2) Since Russia doesn't really care about it's soldiers, nor did they expect them to encounter any resistance (and thus have to stay there a while), they didn't actually prepare the divisions that were going in there with any special equipment and training.

        3) Once the force got bo

      • by hey! ( 33014 )

        The disaster was 36 years ago; probably none of the troops are old enough to remember it. I'm sure they *heard* of it, but they likely had no idea just how dangerous digging in the Red Forest would be. It looks harmless enough.

        I once saw a school group on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, with their teacher trying to get them fired up about standing on the place where Martin Luther King gave his famous "I have a dream" speech. Yes, it was an important moment in US history, and yes, it was within living m

    • by thermopile ( 571680 ) on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:58AM (#62431878) Homepage
      Judging by the drone footage of the camp (here [dailymail.co.uk]), they picked a spectacularly bad place to camp, due west of Reactor Number 4. However, all of the really radioactive fission products, with half lives of days, weeks, or months, have had the past 35 years to decay away, so all that is really left is Cs-137 with a 30.1 year half life.

      Yes, Russian solders raided sources from a lab in Chernobyl [livescience.com], but my strong suspicion (based on having been there) is that there are only check sources and really low level sources stored there. Nothing that would harm anyone from holding for a while.

      The CNN article is mostly alarmist and clickbaity. The level at which we can detect radiation is far lower than the level at which it's harmful to humans.

      However, what the Russians did is absolutely deplorable, reckless, and inexcusable. The Ukrainian operators told them exactly where they where and what they were dealing with. The soldiers will get what they deserve.
      • Strontium-90 is also a significant hazard (and is more bioavailable). There are also high levels of plutonium in the soil, making an alpha-emitter respiratory hazard.

        • by _merlin ( 160982 )

          Putting aside radioactivity, plutonium is extremely toxic. You need to take serious precautions doing anything with it, just because of toxicity.

      • However, all of the really radioactive fission products, with half lives of days, weeks, or months, have had the past 35 years to decay away, so all that is really left is Cs-137 with a 30.1 year half life.
        And what about the Uranium, Plutonium and the fission products with much longer half lives? They are all still there.

        Dumbass

      • Another one of these idiot armchair nuclear experts on slashdot. Last month, when the power went out, they were telling us it was no big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of them. They were quoting random IAEA people with no person knowledge of conditions at the site.

        But now that the orcs are gone, people are doing interviews with the actual scientists working on the site, and they're saying, "the Ukrainians were primarily worried about keeping power to a water tank that cools old fuel rods. Ex

    • Also most likely there were not told what areas they were being deployed. From what I have been reading, some Russian troops deployed have little to no combat experience with their level of training being that for reserve troops not front line. But on the whole, the Russian infantry does not have a lot of troops with combat experience.
  • by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:00AM (#62431780)

    Russian Blunders in Chernobyl: ‘They Came and Did Whatever They Wanted’ [nytimes.com]

    In a particularly ill-advised action, a Russian soldier from a chemical, biological and nuclear protection unit picked up a source of cobalt-60 at one waste storage site with his bare hands, exposing himself to so much radiation in a few seconds that it went off the scales of a Geiger counter, Mr. Simyonov said. It was not clear what happened to the man, he said.

    I can venture a guess....

    Mr. Simyonov, the chief safety engineer, characterized the threat to halt diesel supplies for generators as “blackmail” to force the authorities in Belarus to resolve the problem. However it happened, the electricity was restored in time and the nuclear fuel never came close to overheating.

    All in all, the trench digging and other dubious activities posed a far lower risk than the waste pool, and most of that to the Russian soldiers themselves, Mr. Simyonov said, adding wryly: “We invite them back to dig more trenches here, if they want.”

    • Maybe I should read the summary closer next time you big dummy.

    • In a particularly ill-advised action, a Russian soldier from a chemical, biological and nuclear protection unit picked up a source of cobalt-60 at one waste storage site with his bare hands, exposing himself to so much radiation in a few seconds that it went off the scales of a Geiger counter, Mr. Simyonov said.

      OK, that would cause acute radiation sickness. We kept hearing reports of people with acute radiation sickness, and I was thinking "That doesn't make sense, even if they were digging in the red forest and ingesting Strontiium-90 from the mud, they're just giving themselves cancer, not anything acute."

      Messing around with Cobalt-60 though is the number one cause of radiation sickness. Usually via dumb scrappers stealing medical equipment.

      • We kept hearing reports of people with acute radiation sickness, and I was thinking "That doesn't make sense, even if they were digging in the red forest and ingesting Strontiium-90 from the mud, they're just giving themselves cancer, not anything acute."

        Living in a trench of contaminated soil, breathing in contaminated dust, ingesting said dust and dirt when eating for a month will lead to acute radiation sicknes. So much so that visible signs will show. Which is exactly why the Russian soldiers were rushe

        • by _merlin ( 160982 )

          I doubt it's actually radiation sickness. It's more likely just the toxic effects of some of the nastier decay products.

          • That's because you're an idiot and don't realize it was already widely reported that one young orc was showing off by moving a box of Cobalt-60 around with his bare hands.

            I guess he forgot to say something macho while he was doing it, so the radiation sickness couldn't see him.

            • by _merlin ( 160982 )

              We're not talking about the idiot playing with cobalt 60 - we're talking about the other guys digging trenches in the Red Forest. The GP said:

              Living in a trench of contaminated soil, breathing in contaminated dust, ingesting said dust and dirt when eating for a month will lead to acute radiation sicknes (sic).

              I'd question whether there's anything radioactive enough in the Red Forest now to cause radiation sickness after a month of exposure. All the highly radioactive stuff has decayed, and your left with

      • The background radiation in "the Red Forest" is deadly over the course of a few days.

        Or why actually do you think it is:
        a) called the red forest
        b) nothing is growing there - everything is dead, not even soil bacteria are exiting
        ???

        • by _merlin ( 160982 )

          It's called the red forest because of the colour of the pine trees after they died due to absorbing ionising radiation in the direct aftermath of the disaster. These trees were mostly bulldozed and buried under sand, and pine saplings were planted on top. It isn't dead any more. You can read about how it's turned into an involuntary wildlife refuge on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          That said, there's a lot of highly toxic stuff still in the dirt, even if the radiation isn't immediately leth

      • The big mistake is being credulous that you know what all the risks are, and that they're minor.

        The public sources will only list inaccurate, safe-sounding amounts of the least dangerous stuff, for important security reasons. It should be, but apparently isn't, obvious that this is the case with all types of information about anything nuclear.

        There is a bunch of stuff missing, too, but don't presume that we know exactly what is missing simply because we read articles that listed stuff that was missing.

    • Not only were the Russian soldiers completely inept at anything regarding the nuclear site (and from being soldiers as we've seen), they cut power to the location and wouldn't let fuel in for the backup generators to work. The Ukrainians resorted to stealing fuel from the Russians [bbc.com] to keep the electricity flowing.

  • Drone footage (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:19AM (#62431812)
    Here is drone footage [funker530.com] of the area. You can clearly see the idiocy of digging trenches in the high contamination zone.
  • When your "soldiers" film themselves committing crimes [twitter.com]*, should it be any surprise they don't don't care about tracking radiation all over the place?

    WARNING: This is highly graphic. This is no joke. This is not a Rick roll. This is a Russian soldier who filmed himself committing the crime and bragging about it.

  • I believe the red forest now contains a mass grave.
  • Any russians here? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by doug141 ( 863552 ) on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:10AM (#62431900)

    Can anyone tell us what a 20 year old (born 2002) product of the Russian educational system would know about the 1986 soviet-caused Chernobyl disaster in particular, and danger of radiation in general?

  • by msauve ( 701917 ) on Saturday April 09, 2022 @12:01PM (#62432032)
    "Nuclear Contained"

    Uh, no. It's "nuclear contaminated", and is right there in the summary. I'll ber EditorDavid pronounces it "nukular", too.

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