3 Men Plead Guilty In Plot To Attack US Power Grid (nytimes.com) 157
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the New York Times: Three men pleaded guilty on Wednesday in a plot to attack power grids in the United States, which they believed could lead to economic and civil unrest and create the opportunity for white leaders to rise, federal prosecutors said. The men, Christopher Brenner Cook, 20, of Columbus, Ohio; Jonathan Allen Frost, 24, of West Lafayette, Ind., and of Katy, Texas; and Jackson Matthew Sawall, 22, of Oshkosh, Wis., each pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court in Columbus on Wednesday to one count of conspiring to provide material support to terrorists. They will each face up to 15 years in prison when they are sentenced. A date has not been scheduled.
In fall 2019, Mr. Frost and Mr. Cook met in an online chat group, and they began talking about the possibility of attacking a power grid, according to plea agreements. Within weeks, the two men began making efforts to recruit others and began sharing reading material that promoted white supremacy and neo-Nazism. By late 2019, Mr. Sawall, a friend of Mr. Cook's, also joined the efforts, prosecutors said. As part of their plot, each man focused on substations in different regions of the country, and how to attack the power grids with rifles, according to court documents. The three men discussed that by knocking out power across the country for an extended period, civil unrest would spread, a race war could break out and the next Great Depression could be induced, according to court documents.
In February 2020, the three men met in Columbus for more talks about their plot, according to court documents. When they met, Mr. Frost gave Mr. Cook an AR-47, and the two men trained with the rifle at a shooting range, according to court documents. Mr. Frost also gave Mr. Cook and Mr. Sawall suicide necklaces that he had filled with fentanyl, which were to be ingested if they were caught by the police, according to court documents. While they were in Columbus, Mr. Sawall and Mr. Cook bought spray paint and used it to write the phrase "Join the Front" on a swastika flag under a bridge at a park, according to court documents. The men had more plans to spread propaganda while they were in Ohio until they encountered the police during a traffic stop, during which Mr. Sawall ingested his suicide necklace but survived, according to a plea agreement. The F.B.I. searched the homes of the three men in August 2020. Agents found multiple firearms, chemicals that could have been used to create an explosive device, and Nazi-related books and videos, according to court documents. Samuel Shamansky, a lawyer for Mr. Frost, said on Wednesday that Mr. Frost had "accepted complete responsibility for his reprehensible conduct."
"He has completely disavowed the racist viewpoints previously embraced," Mr. Shamansky said. "Regrettably, Mr. Frost fell prey to the misinformation espoused on the internet and now recognizes how dangerous the medium can be. Moreover, Mr. Frost has committed himself toward rehabilitation and doing everything within his power to remedy his misdeeds."
In fall 2019, Mr. Frost and Mr. Cook met in an online chat group, and they began talking about the possibility of attacking a power grid, according to plea agreements. Within weeks, the two men began making efforts to recruit others and began sharing reading material that promoted white supremacy and neo-Nazism. By late 2019, Mr. Sawall, a friend of Mr. Cook's, also joined the efforts, prosecutors said. As part of their plot, each man focused on substations in different regions of the country, and how to attack the power grids with rifles, according to court documents. The three men discussed that by knocking out power across the country for an extended period, civil unrest would spread, a race war could break out and the next Great Depression could be induced, according to court documents.
In February 2020, the three men met in Columbus for more talks about their plot, according to court documents. When they met, Mr. Frost gave Mr. Cook an AR-47, and the two men trained with the rifle at a shooting range, according to court documents. Mr. Frost also gave Mr. Cook and Mr. Sawall suicide necklaces that he had filled with fentanyl, which were to be ingested if they were caught by the police, according to court documents. While they were in Columbus, Mr. Sawall and Mr. Cook bought spray paint and used it to write the phrase "Join the Front" on a swastika flag under a bridge at a park, according to court documents. The men had more plans to spread propaganda while they were in Ohio until they encountered the police during a traffic stop, during which Mr. Sawall ingested his suicide necklace but survived, according to a plea agreement. The F.B.I. searched the homes of the three men in August 2020. Agents found multiple firearms, chemicals that could have been used to create an explosive device, and Nazi-related books and videos, according to court documents. Samuel Shamansky, a lawyer for Mr. Frost, said on Wednesday that Mr. Frost had "accepted complete responsibility for his reprehensible conduct."
"He has completely disavowed the racist viewpoints previously embraced," Mr. Shamansky said. "Regrettably, Mr. Frost fell prey to the misinformation espoused on the internet and now recognizes how dangerous the medium can be. Moreover, Mr. Frost has committed himself toward rehabilitation and doing everything within his power to remedy his misdeeds."
Turner Diaries? (Score:4, Interesting)
We'll see... (Score:2)
We'll see how long he disavows his white nationalist beliefs when he's in the pen trying to get protection from the skinheads...
That's when we'll know for sure just how much he disagrees with his past beliefs.
My guess is that he just pulls them out and wears them around him like a warm blanket...
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"Regrettably, Mr. Frost fell prey to the misinformation espoused on the internet and now recognizes how dangerous the medium can be. Moreover, Mr. Frost has committed himself toward rehabilitation and doing everything within his power to remedy his misdeeds."
is the white supremacist's Twinkie Defence. Look at all these bad things the Internet made me do! I'd never have done any of those horrible things by myself! Heil Hitl..uhh, I mean, I'm really sorry.
They made a mistake (Score:2)
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AR-47? (Score:2)
"Mr. Frost gave Mr. Cook an AR-47"
I'm guessing we've got news being reported by gun experts again.
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"Mr. Frost gave Mr. Cook an AR-47"
I'm guessing we've got news being reported by gun experts again.
I'm sure its just the nickname for the Armalite 7.62x39, or, you know, maybe, a typo. ;-)
Re: AR-47? (Score:3)
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Meanwhile, the BFG9000 is still legal in most states.
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I don't know if it is in fact the type gun they had but there is AR style rifle chambered for the same round used by the AK-47, and at least one company that makes such an arrangement calls it an AR-47.
What company makes this?
Is this a machine gun?
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You probably should have fact-checked it first before pretending to be an expert, since such a weapon exists.
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One website [lawandcrime.com] gives these extra details:
The plan was for the men to each target a substation in a different region of the country [...] using AR-47 rifles that Forst [sic] had been building. These ghost rifles would have no serial numbers, and in February 2020 Frost traveled from Indiana to Ohio so he could give Cook one of these rifles [...]
It sounds like they were at least assembling these themsleves, so it might well have been an AR-15 chambered for AK-47 rounds. A court document [justice.gov] lists some of what was siezed from Frost, including an "Armalite Platform Carbine" and 7.62 X 39mm ammunition, which would seem to back this up:
A black Armalite Platform Carbine firearm bearing no Serial Number; .45 caliber pistol, SN: 55-22638;
Assorted ammunition, including, but not limited to:
- Approximately 50 rounds of 9mm Luger ammunition;
- Approximately 84 rounds of Tulammo brand 7.62 X 39mm ammunition;
- Approximately 2 black. Duramag 7.62 X 39mm magazines; and
- Approximately 6 Tulammo brand 7.62 X 39mm shell casings.
A Smith and Wesson 9 mm pistol, SN: 42490;
A Rugar Mark IV, 9 mm pistol, SN: S00076647;
An AR Pistol with no identifiable Serial Number;
Approximately 13 rounds of assorted ammunition and 2 empty magazines
Two grenade shells;
[...]
A Rugar Vasquer
A Smith and Wesson, SW1911, 9 mm pistol, SN: TRH5040;
A Baikal shotgun with no identifiable Serial Number;
A Sig Sauer, P938, 9x19 MM pistol, SN: 52E073770;
[...]
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It's an AR-15 chambered for 7.62x39. I'm guessing we've got comments being made by gun experts again.
dumber than a white guy wearing a fedora backwards (Score:3)
> by knocking out power across the country for an extended period, civil unrest would spread, a race war could break out and the next Great Depression could be induced
Somehow these geniuses missed the fact that power has been knocked out in many areas of the country over the past half century, yet somehow race wars and great depressions didn't magically spring up everywhere
Re:dumber than a white guy wearing a fedora backwa (Score:4, Funny)
Re:dumber than a white guy wearing a fedora backwa (Score:4, Interesting)
Presumably this was just the first stage of the plan. They are "accelerationists", they believe that a race war is inevitable and in fact desirable, and want it to happen as soon as possible because non-white people are gaining power and if they wait they might lose.
I guess once the power was out they would have moved on to stage too, somehow pinning the blame on non-white people, maybe some false flag riot incitement or looting, some fake attacks on white people to try to draw the "normies" into the conflict.
White supremacists? (Score:2)
Don't they mean Christians? That's what the Fox tabloid claims, that going after white supremacists is really an attack on Christians.
Kind of an odd juxtapostion, groups dedicated to suppressing and attacking others not like them, but I guess if the shoe fits . . .
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Don't they mean Christians? That's what the Fox tabloid claims, that going after white supremacists is really an attack on Christians.
Kind of an odd juxtapostion, groups dedicated to suppressing and attacking others not like them, but I guess if the shoe fits . . .
I'm an atheist but no.
"Christian" is too broad a term. We tell the hardcore bible bashers that atheism isn't a religion because it has too many different types of people, from Buddhists to Wiccans to Satanists to the non-religious like me. The only thing we really have in common is that we don't believe in a god or gods. Same, but opposite when we say "Christian".
Christians are everyone from Anglicans to Roman Catholics to Lutherans to old testament Baptists and everyone in between, some times the onl
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They believe in a different one than most Christians. Maybe it's Christ 2.0? I do think there's been some sort of strange mixup over the centuries though as almost all depictions in the west portray Christ some sort of Gandalf and not of middle eastern heritage.
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Their "belief" in Christ is mere window dressing to cover up their decidedly unChrisitian beliefs. Most of them are against immigration over the southern border. But if they were truly Christians, they'd be welcoming those immigrants into their homes. They are against abortion, but are willing to leave the poor begging in the streets. Most of what they promote is mere virtue signaling to Heaven, much like the Islamic nutjobs who go out of their way to kill someone they think blasphemed. It has nothing to do
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It sounds stupid when I say it, but it's fucking true.
I've gotten into numerous discussions with a branch of my family that is evangelical on FB, back when I perused that steaming pile of s
Read a bit and the charges all (Score:2)
But I do get a warm feeling just knowing that all the gravel pits are under FBI surveillance in the search for the real terrorist.
The DOJ announcement (Score:3)
For those of us not paying NYT for access.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr... [justice.gov]
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Apparently Joe Dragon is Ocean's One.
From his post, I'd say he's more likely Ocean's Half, especially where wit is concerned.
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Radicalized on slashdot from constantly hearing about white supremacy.... pretty high.
Unlikely (Score:2)
Wouldn't it be funny if one or more of them were radicalised on Slashdot.
Since Rust wasn't mentioned at all I'd guess not.
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> Wouldn't it be funny if one or more of them were radicalised on Slashdot.
"Emacs or death! Down with vim!"
Soviet sleeper cell (Score:2, Funny)
Sound like domestic US crime.
No, they are part of a Soviet sleeper cell that infiltrated from Canada before the fall of the Soviet Union. Putin just activated them. I'm sure they hoped he lost their number but they know better than to not pick up.
Re:Soviet sleeper cell (Score:5, Insightful)
Sleeper cells are so last century. The Internet gives you reach into a bottomless pit of crackpots. You don't even have to reach into the filthy place; just toss some ideas in and let them ferment.
University's [Something] Studies department (Score:2)
Sleeper cells are so last century.
Especially the Soviet ones.
The Internet gives you reach into a bottomless pit of crackpots. You don't even have to reach into the filthy place; just toss some ideas in and let them ferment.
Fine, fine, I'll modernize it to something more contemporary.
No, they are part of a marxist cell recently formed in University's [Something] Studies department. Putin just activated them.
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Didn't even glance at anything more than the headline, did you?
They're white supremecists, so, MAGAidiots and fascists.
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Didn't even glance at anything more than the headline, did you? They're white supremecists, so, MAGAidiots and fascists.
Lets skip the fact that you are humor challenged and ignorant of higher quality TV.
MAGA is not synonymous with white supremacists. Trump's support among black and hispanic voters increased due to his America first focus.
Stocastic terrorism (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea is you don't need to organize terrorism or assassinations you just have to put the idea out there and wait for a crackpot to pick up on it and act on it. It's something the Russians have been using for a long time and it was a favorite tactic of the KGB. If you go digging around archive.org you can find declassified documents from the CIA that describe how to do it and the way to choose your crack pots.
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This is also the modus operandi of all middle-east terrorist groups: spew ideas all over the internet, get the local loonies to read them. Then the latter act upon the ideas and go kill a bunch of people. Then we can't sentence them to jail because it turns out that they are, actually, mentally disturbed or demented, which (at least where I live) leads to this: "depending on the moment when the psychic or neuropsychic trouble declared itself, the person's charges could be dismissed by the juge d'instruction
I don't really see that from the Mid East (Score:2)
The way you solve that problem is by allowing the countries to modernize but doing that doesn't help
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Indeed, they're not Russian sleeper agents, they're Russian bots hell bent on keeping Hillary from running again and winning in 2024
Hillary will not win due to her demonstrable racism, her efforts to prevent an African American from becoming president, actually trying to block him in the 2008 primary.
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ROTFL!
Given that they want civil unrest, they're MAGAdiots.
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ROTFL! Given that they want civil unrest, they're MAGAdiots.
Well they aren't sophisticated as the left, they have not developed the left's art of "mostly peaceful" arson, murder and insurrection.
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Involving a vast, complex, distributed system and an attempt to take it down by identifying and attacking a small number of points. The concept is intriguing, but the execution was as unimpressive as the plotters.
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I dunno, ever met any of these Race Warriors in real life? Half the time they're what they are because they are 100% full on fucking nerds who got bullied and this is their way of being an edgelord living their own little Varsity Blues fantasy. Seriously, take away the nazi bullshit and they'd have ended up playing 40k at GenCon or something instead.
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In other words, these are domestic terrorists.
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We switched to LCD a long tome ago.
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Liquid Creolization Dogma?
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No, I blame Plasma TVs for this mess.
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>"Schools in America don't teach it, despite what your masters tell you."
Semantics. I have seen much evidence over the last year of principles rooted in CRT being taught at K-12 schools. Whether it is "actual" CRT or not is pretty irrelevant. It is nasty stuff that needs to end.
Re: Well CRT told them they were born oppressors (Score:5, Insightful)
. It is nasty stuff that needs to end.
Yes, how horrible that children learn the good and bad about this country's history. How the first "Christians" to these lands infected the people living here with diseaes which decimated those people, and the "Christians" praised their god for doing so.
These are the same "Christians" who attacked other christians because their beliefs were different.
Or the millions of Native Americans who were raped and murdered by these "Christians".
The millions of slaves taken from their country by these "Christians". Such as the ones who fought at the Alamo because they didn't like that Mexico had banned slavery.
Or the multitudes of black people attacked or murdered by those "peaceful" "Christians". The same ones who now don't want their kids to learn about segregation or the civil rights movement because the kids grandparents were involved in trying to prevent equal rights from happening.
Oh no, does that make the poor white snowflakes uncomfortable? Should we have safe spaces for these kids so they don't have to learn about history? Should we shelter them from bad news because they might learn something?
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>"Yes, how horrible that children learn the good and bad about this country's history."
CRT-based views have nothing to do with teaching history. It is about labling CURRENT people's propensities based on the color of their skin. If you don't realize that, then you don't know what it is that we are objecting to with CRT or CRT-inspired teachings.
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CRT teaches that race is a social construct. Color of your skin has nothing to do with it.
CRT teaches you to look at current inequities as the momentum of past ill intents that we simply take for granted as not racist.
CRT teaches you to look at those inequities via intersectionality- find all the nuances and intersections, with the past and present cultural trends, rather than assuming outright prejudice.
I don't get why you have to make shit up about it.
I don't care if you
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What I said was not made up and not a lie. There are some aspects of CRT that do indeed, match what you are saying, and some that match mine. And some aspects are probably OK, if presented correctly to a mature-enough audience that can understand it and critically analyze it. But most parts of it are completely inappropriate for children. All it does is end up blaming current, innocent people who are not racist as being "oppressors" and current, non-victim people as being "oppressed." This is beyond ho
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As a white person I have found that the majority of white people are anywhere from a little bit racist to a lot racist when they think they can comfortably speak their mind around you. I live in a very red state and 100% of Republicans I am around are racist, I have struggled to think of one Republican that I know that is not racist and I can't think of one, this includes my entire family who are all racist as shit.
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What I said was not made up and not a lie.
Yes, it was. The best I'll grant you is that you're not responsible as a first-party for that lie. You're merely responsible for the spread of misinformation.
There are some aspects of CRT that do indeed, match what you are saying
Of course there are. I literally defined what CRT is for you.
and some that match mine.
I'm happy to give you a chance to try again and show that to be the case.
And some aspects are probably OK, if presented correctly to a mature-enough audience that can understand it and critically analyze it.
I'll admit that when this whole hubbub exploded, I remember thinking "CRT is a bit advanced for children."
But I don't really know what the curriculum for them is, so I can't evaluate whether or not it's being appropriat
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The millions of slaves taken from their country by these "Christians".
Actually fellow black pagans and brown/black Muslims took the free back men and women from their land and made them slaves.
Then the Christians took them from the coastal Muslim forts across the ocean.
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But the Christians (CINOs) paid for it all and kept this system going long after the trade routes dried up.
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But the Christians (CINOs) paid for it all and kept this system going long after the trade routes dried up.
The muslims paid the pagans who brought the prisoners to the coast. And yes it continued until some other christians forced the trade to end.
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The Christians were pretty eager to contract it out after their bad results of enslaving the native Americans, who had a habit of dying in captivity.
If you contract me to kill someone, you're still guilty of murder, even if I lobbied for you to contract me.
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Of course christians w
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Seems it was only the Christians that claimed that certain peoples, based on the colour of their skins, were natural slaves and sub-human. The Muslims for example allowed/encouraged their slaves to convert and become full citizens, as well as having their slaves actually often run things. Most other forms of slavery, as you said, was based on losing a war or similar.
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Racial or ethnic supremacy is hardly a new or novel component of slavery. Its not required but hardly absent. When sk
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Slaves running things like the Mamluk's did, or in Turkey, to quote wiki,
Ottomans practiced devirme, a sort of "blood tax" or "child collection", young Christian boys from Eastern Europe and Anatolia were taken from their homes and families, brought up as Muslims, and enlisted into the most famous branch of the Kapkulu, the Janissaries, a special soldier class of the Ottoman army that became a decisive faction in the Ottoman invasions of Europe.[80] Most of the military commanders of the Ottoman forces, imperial administrators, and de facto rulers of the Empire, such as Pargal Ibrahim Pasha and Sokollu Mehmed Pasha, were recruited in this way
Which brings up the fact that slave is a pretty general term with different meanings in different cultures or even the same culture (I assume different languages differentiated) with some cultures giving slaves various rights and others treating them as pure property.
A lot of the time, things were tribal when it came to others rather then racial, which actually seems a Judaeo Christian thing where some races are better then others with
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Ottomans practiced devirme, a sort of "blood tax" or "child collection", young Christian boys from Eastern Europe and Anatolia were taken from their homes and families, brought up as Muslims, and enlisted into the most famous branch of the Kapkulu, the Janissaries, a special soldier class of the Ottoman army ...
Child soldiers, slave soldiers.
... that became a decisive faction in the Ottoman invasions of Europe. Most of the military commanders of the Ottoman forces, imperial administrators, and de facto rulers of the Empire, such as Pargal Ibrahim Pasha and Sokollu Mehmed Pasha, were recruited in this way
Abducted and indoctrinated. So a slave soldier who is obedient and survives can become the abuser of the next generation of slave soldiers.
Which brings up the fact that slave is a pretty general term with different meanings in different cultures ...
Taken from their families, forced to be child soldiers, indoctrinated, reward for obedience, ... doesn't really seem that different other than soldier rather than laborer.
... sounds a lot like the senior "house slave". Still answerable to the master they serve, the master who trained and i
Administrators, defacto rulers of the household
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Thank you for confirming that CRT is not being taught at K-12 schools.
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You mean acknowledging that racism exists and existed in the past? Yeah I think we should continue teaching that
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But that's what happens in reality. Should we hide that from children and pretend there's no racism?
Also, it's more acknowledging that it exists, it's a problem, it's been a problem historically, and we should fix it. Grade school students aren't being taught CRT
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But that's what happens in reality.
Not it is not. There is no destiny to be oppressed or oppressor.
Should we hide that from children and pretend there's no racism?
Classifying children on the oppressor/oppressed scale is not teaching history, it is practicing racism. History is backwards looking, and being honest about history is something quite different that race based classification.
Also, it's more acknowledging that it exists, it's a problem, it's been a problem historically, and we should fix it. Grade school students aren't being taught CRT
Wrong, you are playing semantic games. Classification as oppressor/oppressed is CRT based doctrine. Racism is a problem that needs to be fixed but sowing racial mistrust and hostility and practicing a form of racism is not
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Classifying children on the oppressor/oppressed scale is not teaching history,
Never seen that happening. Sounds imagined or something that happened in one or two classrooms then racists latched on to it.
Racists seem to be using "CRT" as an excuse to ban any discussion or racism or any topic that makes them uncomfortable.
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What is most amusing of all is that you seem to be criti
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This reminds me a lot of the debates on network neutrality (NN) some years ago. There was a small group of people who were told that network neutrality was something other than what it really was. Some of them thought that NN meant that ISPs were not allowed to have different pricing schemes. Others thought that NN made content blocking options illegal. I remember some people thinking it meant that ISPs could not practice any kind of network management (ex: priority-of-service, type-of-service packet sc
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Parents have found numerous incidents
Incidents of what?
CRT is defined as:
intellectual and social movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour.
So you are saying that some parents have found incidents of people believing that race is a social category? What would an "incident" of that be?
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How many incidents would you estimate? 3? 7? 12?
Clearly we should pass overreaching laws that criminalize teaching sensitive topics so these parents don't have to hear that their children learned racism exists.
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How many incidents would you estimate? 3? 7? 12?
Clearly we should pass overreaching laws that criminalize teaching sensitive topics so these parents don't have to hear that their children learned racism exists.
What incidents, what parents? There are none complaining about the legitimate history lesson mentioning slavery, racism, etc.
Again, CRT is not about such history lessons. Its about discontent about western liberalism, legal neutrality and personal responsibility, etc. It promotes determinism, the notion that society is irredeemably flawed, etc. Which leads to these exercises where student are evaluating themselves as "oppressor" or "oppressed" based on race, gender, orientation, etc. The parents are obje
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Classification as oppressor/oppressed is CRT based doctrine
CRT [wikipedia.org] has nothing to do with that.
Wrong. CRT is about discontent with western liberalism, legal neutrality and personal responsibility, etc. It promotes determinism, the notion that society is irredeemably flawed, etc. Which leads to these exercises where student are evaluating themselves as "oppressor" or "oppressed" based on race, gender, orientation, etc. The parents are objecting to these radical political theories suggesting determination into one category or the other, the notion that personal responsibility is colonist or oppressor o
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Incidents of what?
CRT is defined as:
"intellectual and social movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour."
LOL, you should keep reading your own citation. CRT is about discontent with western liberalism, legal neutrality and personal responsibility, etc. It promotes determinism, the notion that society is irredeemably flawed, etc. Which leads to these exercises where student are evaluating themselves as "oppressor" or "oppressed" based on race, gender, orientation, etc. The parents are objecting to these radical political theories suggesting determination into one category or the other, the notion that personal
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That article is excellent and informative. Did you actually read it, or just post it? Because it doesn't say what you seem to think it says. If you read that article and concluded "This article confirms that CRT is being taught in k12 schools" then you are a master of self-deception.
It's a good article, thank you for posting it. In summary, it talks about a particular journalist who admits that he is trying to change the definition of CRT to include whatever he doesn't like. It links to his tweets wher
Re: Well CRT told them they were born oppressors (Score:2)
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Yes, I have. But believe what you like, as am I sure you will.
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When do you think they learned about CRT? Schools in America don't teach it, despite what your masters tell you.
And yet the concept or race based oppressor/oppressed has been taught. Semantic games, same ideas, just branded differently.
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It's that damned Declaration of Independence, right there in proto-Marxist language: all men are created equal. Although by the time of the constitution they changed their minds so that slaves only counted as 3/5s of a person, that equality idea was far too radical for the righteous god fearing slave beaters of the era.
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It's that damned Declaration of Independence, right there in proto-Marxist language: all men are created equal. Although by the time of the constitution they changed their minds so that slaves only counted as 3/5s of a person, that equality idea was far too radical for the righteous god fearing slave beaters of the era.
Actually that compromise resulted from one group of christians opposing slavery and another group of christians supporting slavery. Those that opposed slavery tended to end it in their state constitutions that were drafted at the same time as the federal constitution. In other words some states did try to live up to the ideals of the declaration of independence.. And these annoying christians kept up their opposition and advocacy decade after decade until a civil war over slavery resulted.
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If you deny them the ability to vote, and make sure they're on the census, they're a full person, and you get to vote for them. Win win.
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When you suppress the vote of someone who is counted on the census, you in fact vote for them.
Representation is apportioned by people on the census, not votes cast.
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Your phrase "vote for them" is a bit ambiguous, especially in the context of your "deny them the ability to vote." Glad to here you are only referring to representative government rather than voter fraud.
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Yes I understand how representative government works.
Well, the problem is worse in our system than most.
Your phrase "vote for them" is a bit ambiguous, especially in the context of your "deny them the ability to vote." Glad to here you are only referring to representative government rather than voter fraud.
That's fair- yes, I'm referring to the fact that our system incentivizes disenfranchisement.
It allows you to remove a vote from the tally, but not their representation, increasing the voting power of every person not disenfranchised.
We carved out a specific exemption via Constitutional Amendment for overt disenfranchisement, so states have moved over to more "soft" forms of it.
In more advanced democracies, this problem is addressed. The group in power
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What "soft" disenfranchisement exists today, say insufficient polling places, is politically motivated not racial as in the past. A district gets targeted for such things when it overwhelmingly votes for the "other" political party. Today its not about race at the political party level, white, black, brown
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Like I said, the south got themselves an upgrade. Why only get the representation of 3/5ths of a person who can't vote, when you can replace it with a whole person that you can greatly decrease the likelihood of them voting?
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>"If you're hanging out on the right wing these are the people you're hanging with."
Sorry to spoil your narrative. But you are very wrong. What those people did (or planned to do) has nothing to do with being "right wing" and everything to do with just being bad/crazy/evil people. I know a *LOT* of people whom you would categorize as "right wing" and exactly zero of them are violent or racist and all would be appalled at the acts and plans of those three people.
>"Ask yourself if the stuff you're w
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Re: We haven't had a left-wing terrorist since the (Score:3)
Left wingers just shoot in churches and bomb things. Totally different.
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Well, there's left wing and right wing and centrist. And then there's crazy whackadoodle left wing and wing nut drooling right wing. Generally the wing nut droolers have risen in numbers greatly in recent years and seem to have a firm lock on the Republican party such that mainstream centrist Republicans are scared to say anything truthful such as "Trump lost" lest they lose their primaries.
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They're very dear friends of mine, and good people, and not one of them would ever consider an act like this patriotic. They're also not overt racists, by any means, and they're appalled by overt racism (though I think they're a smidge subconsciously racist, which probably is just a matter of upbringing)
So ya, painting conservatives with this brush is fucked up and wrong. However- you guys do have a problem. A real problem.
The ins
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>"So ya, painting conservatives with this brush is fucked up and wrong. However- you guys do have a problem. A real problem.
The instances of domestic right-wing terrorism are growing, and growing fast."
Actually, I don't think it is growing fast, I think it is just spotlighted more. If it is growing, it is probably a reaction to the last decade of hyper political correctness. It is not just a "you guys" have a problem, either, it is an everyone problem.
>" Responding to one of your posts below- yes, I
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>We haven't had a left-wing terrorist since the 70s
You're lying though, and I believe you were called out on this before. This [wikipedia.org] 2017 shooting was declared "an act of terrorism... fueled by rage against Republican legislators". The attacker was a left-wing activist, and a participant in Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign in 2016.