White Castle To Hire 100 Robots To Flip Burgers (slashdot.org) 268
Midwestern fast-food chain White Castle is outsourcing some of its jobs to robots. The hamburger chain announced plans last week to install Miso Robotics' "Flippy 2" in 100 locations. From a report: The Ohio-based chain has been experimenting with the robotic fry cook since September 2020, when the original "Flippy" was installed in a Chicago area restaurant. After upgrading to "Flippy 2" at the original test location in November 2021, White Castle decided to roll out a larger version of the program. "By taking over the work of an entire fry station, Flippy 2 alleviates the pain points that come with back-of-house roles at quick-service restaurants to create a working environment for its human coworkers that maximizes the efficiency of the kitchen," Miso Robotics said in a statement. "The improved workflow allows for the redeployment of team members to focus on creating memorable moments for customers."
Don't want (Score:5, Insightful)
"The improved workflow allows for the redeployment of team members to focus on creating memorable moments for customers."
I don't want "memorable moments" when I go to a fast food joint. I want my food hot, my drinks cold, and to pay and go. Thats it.
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At least the robots won't spit on the burgers.
They might even cook them properly, too.
Re:Don't want (Score:5, Informative)
Despite the headline, Flippy doesn't flip burgers. It deep fries french fries, onion rings, and chicken tenders. Probably saves a bundle in workers compensation claims.
Re:Don't want (Score:4, Informative)
Despite the headline, Flippy doesn't flip burgers.
TFA [pcmag.com] shows it flipping a burger.
Re:Don't want (Score:5, Insightful)
But why do you even need to flip a burger in the first place? Just make them uniform thickness and cook them between two plates. Or stick them in something like a fish grill basket to flip them all at once.
I will never understand the fascination with replacing humans with robots instead of just redesigning the entire process to be automated. It's vastly more inefficient to make a robot replace a human than it is to just design an automated system in the most efficient way possible.
Re:Don't want (Score:5, Informative)
But why do you even need to flip a burger in the first place?
You don't. White Castle doesn't bother flipping their burgers. The holes in White Castle patties are there to steam through for even cooking without flipping.
That's why I thought it was silly for this particular chain to buy a robot named "Flippy".
Re:Don't want (Score:4, Informative)
Several YouTube videos on Flippy demos from up to 4 years back.
GP seems to be describing this at White Castle: https://youtu.be/5vjf13h2f6o [youtu.be]
P seems to be describing this for CaliBurger: https://youtu.be/KJVOfqunm5E [youtu.be]
That latter actual burger-flipping video seems to be in a Miso Robotics test kitchen. Most of the other videos, and the cover photo from the current article, look like they might all be from that single test site.
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Why update the firmware on your robot when you can redesign your entire kitchen every 6 months instead...
Why would you need to redesign the kitchen? Are we suddenly going to stop making burgers and fries at our burger joints after about 60 years or so?
Anyway, I agree with them. Look at how packaged food is made. They design the entire system to automate everything based around using machines in the first place.
Re: Don't want (Score:2)
That sounds almost exactly like what I've seen at Krispy Kreme in the late 90s. My guess is it's easier to do it for donuts than fries though.
Re: Don't want (Score:2)
Most adult cooks in most burger joints can't cook a burger properly. Why did they ever think a bunch of teens who would know what good food tastes like can cook a burger. But then again if I want quality food I don't go to a chain or fast food ever.
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Re:Don't want (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, "redeployment" is the new downsizing, because this is all PR nonsense. What do you expect, White Castle to be honest and say, "we make way more money by replacing menial human jobs with robot burger flippers"? Regardless of how you feel about The Fight for 15 (or is it 20 now, or 25?), in reality it means fast food joints and the like are accelerating their adoption of automation. And once a few start down the path like this, they ALL need to do it to stay competitive. Even mid-tier sit-down chains won't be insulated from the impact of this tech.
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Even mid-tier sit-down chains won't be insulated from the impact of this tech.
Why wouldn't you automate things in a higher end place? Sure, you can a have chef controlling it, but there is no reason for him to do everything the slower and less precise way forever just because people pay more for the food.
Re:Don't want (Score:5, Interesting)
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I enjoy cooking. So I do a fair amount of cooking. I have taken some classes taught by professionals etc to learn technique etc.
Cooking is a skill but its a skill anyone can learn. There is space for talent/creativity/intuition when it comes to designing new recipes, planning menus, choosing parings and the like that some folks are more natural at than others and those folks are our professional chefs!
They won't be replaced but I disagree that the line cooks and the sous chefs can't become a technician th
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While White Castle is spending stupid money on stupid things, their competition will to the same just using a conveyor belt oven with far less complexity and cost.
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I don't want "memorable moments" when I go to a fast food joint. I want my food hot, my drinks cold, and to pay and go. Thats it.
There was certainly a time in my life where I would have agreed with you and while I don't know about "memorable moments" there is something to be said about a drive through experience where the person you're talking to doesn't sound like they hate their life. If you ever go through an In and Out you will likely appreciate the difference in customer service you pretty much always get at one of these places.
Re: Don't want (Score:2)
Re:Don't want (Score:5, Funny)
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Plenty of sex robots available for sale...
Memorable moments? (Score:2)
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I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a forgettable moment.
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Remember, these establishments are at historic low levels of employment right now.
They simply can't get enough workers AT ANY PRICE.
So these robots will be SUPPLEMENTING the staff they have now. Who'll be retrained to work AROUND the devices.
What will happen is, in the future, new hiring will slow down. As dumb grunt labor isn't needed.
End college for most now (Score:3)
I totally agree with you about university being a gamble, and of the 50% who do it, for many it will not work out. The need is two fold - to get employers to take on high school graduates rather than demand a degree, and for the government to stop funding so many places, especially in courses that won't get you a job automatically. Perhaps a 'graduate surcharge' on all firms that employ graduates that don't need to employ graduates, though of course that might lead to 'Gender Studies' graduates not being ab
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They should push the AI thing a bit further and replace the team members with conversational bots. Now that would allow for some memorable moments... And if Ms. Karen is angry and wants to talk to the manager, you bring out Good Ol' Eliza:
> Hello, I am Eliza. I'll be your therapist today.
# I want to talk to the manager!
> Why do you want to talk to the manager?
# Because my burger is overcooked!
> Can you elaborate on that?
# It's charred on one side and raw on the other!
> I think you are blocking w
You don't hire a robot (Score:5, Insightful)
You purchase a robot. Perhaps you lease it.
Putting on my indignant robot rights sjw hat, saying you "hire" a robot is like saying you "hire" a slave.
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I can hire a car, why not a robot?
Re:You don't hire a robot (Score:5, Informative)
I can hire a car, why not a robot?
"Hire" is a word with different meanings in American and British English.
In America, you rent a car. You don't hire it. "Hire" is only used for the narrow meaning of paying a person for their labor.
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Are you sure that's a hat and not a dunce cap? "Hire" can mean "rent" or "lease" or "to get done for pay", as in "Hire a limo" or "hire a robot" or "hire the lawn mowed". Look at a dictionary.
Re: You don't hire a robot (Score:2)
"hire the lawn mowed"
That's not a correct use of either "hired" or "mowed" on either side of "the Pond."
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Maybe you should write a letter to Merriam-Webster - that was en example they had under their definition of "hire".
Re: You don't hire a robot (Score:2)
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Not hiring is an Americanism.
Just like where this article was written and is referring to. It's not used that way here and shouldn't have been in the article.
Anyway, it IS used here for hiring people for a job, which is what they are actually referring to, not renting the machines. I'm pretty sure they only used "hire" to try to make you feel bad for people being replaced by machines.
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You create the first of these robots and start filing some patents. Then you sell or lease them.
"indignant robot rights sjw hat"??? (Score:2)
A social justice warrior hat... for robots...
You, sir, are a very strange sort of meat-bag. Please do the rest of us meat-bags a solid and avoid procreation at all costs.
A robot workforce is nothing like slavery, because a robot is definitely not alive. It's simply automation. You can paint eyes on the conveyor robot picker arms and even adorn them with Hello Kitty ear muffs, but that won't make them any more alive than the steel and minerals from which they are entirely constructed. You might have played j
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You purchase a robot. Perhaps you lease it.
Putting on my indignant robot rights sjw hat, saying you "hire" a robot is like saying you "hire" a slave.
Equating a robot with a slave? You may as well call every tool or electric device you own a slave too.
I never let my fridge stop working and I don't pay it at all. I hope it isn't emancipated and I have to start pumping all that coolant by hand.
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There's actually an economist named Jean-Marc Jancovici who equated electrical appliances with slaves, saying that the average household has about 100 electrical slaves (in equivalent of energy consumed) at their disposal. It was a very interesting read, but I can't find the original source.
Apparently this notion goes back to the 1930s.
Concept [wikipedia.org]
Origin [jstor.org]
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Flippy 2
starting $3,000/mo [misorobotics.com]
Wafflebot... (Score:2)
...I love you
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You don't hire robots (Score:2)
The Economics of the Future (Score:5, Insightful)
We recently discussed this in The Geek Bits Podcast (video version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Soon there will be no "menial" jobs. There are already pizza machines that will make and bake an entire pizza from a touchscreen and spit it out in 5 minutes. Factory labor is quickly becoming a thing of the past.
And no. Not everyone is capable of getting a better job or learning to be an engineer. Don't play that card. Some people will never be talented enough for complex or highly skilled jobs.
The future requires that capitalism evolve.
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The next job to get replaced: writing press releases. "Flippy 2 alleviates the pain points that come with back-of-house roles at quick-service restaurants to create a working environment for its human coworkers that maximizes the efficiency of the kitchen." You don't really think that was written by a human, do you? Within a few years PR will be a fully automated job, and no one will notice the difference. Or care.
Re: The Economics of the Future (Score:3, Insightful)
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But you're not actually quite surprised to know all that shit and yet, here you are.
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The Uncomfortable Fact About IQ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:The Economics of the Future (Score:5, Funny)
They could still run for Congress for example.
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the limitation of the military to people of at least 83 IQ does not mean "there's no place in our cognitively complex society for 1 in 10 people". It does mean the military is not properly equipped to train them.
The military is an entire organization based around training people to do things. If they can't do it, nobody can.
A thought-experiment for Luddites (Score:2)
I posted this before, you must've missed it, so here it goes again... Suppose, someone invents a medicine — or a procedure — that eliminates all illnesses. Easy enough to make, at the cost of, say, $1000 per person.
Would you seriously object to its wide availability on account of all of the doctors, nurses, and pharmacists losing their jobs?
Right...
Re: A thought-experiment for Luddites (Score:2)
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So no, such a magic pill would in no way cause all medical personnel to be out of a job. If anything, it would alleviate the current burden on the medical system and make way for
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For the purpose of this thought-exercise, elimination of 90% — or even just half — poses the same question as eliminating 100%.
One would've thought this obvious, sigh...
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I posted this before, you must've missed it, so here it goes again... Suppose, someone invents a medicine — or a procedure — that eliminates all illnesses. Easy enough to make, at the cost of, say, $1000 per person.
Would you seriously object to its wide availability on account of all of the doctors, nurses, and pharmacists losing their jobs?
Right...
Workers in one industry can retrain for another industry.
Fair enough.
Now what if someone develops a robot that can work in any industry. So work in all industries is obsolete at the same time. Now what do people do?
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Enjoy leisure.
You're posing a stupid non-dilemma, frankly. Humans work because there are tasks to be done — not because of some inherent need to work. Contrary to what some politicians might claim, we don't need "jobs" — we need food, shelter, and entertainment. Good food, comfortable shelter, and quality entertainment.
If/when the means of productions develop to the level you propose, we'll all become, what (some of) t
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You're posing a stupid non-dilemma, frankly. Humans work because there are tasks to be done — not because of some inherent need to work. Contrary to what some politicians might claim, we don't need "jobs" — we need food, shelter, and entertainment. Good food, comfortable shelter, and quality entertainment.
Humans mostly work because they need money to buy the things you mentioned, food, shelter, and entertainment.
Of course not all industries will be replaced at once, it's as silly as your miracle pill. And proposed as a similar thought-experiment.
In a lefty paradise, we will do away with money, and robots will just give us those 3 things.
In a more realistic scenario. Differing industries will be obsoleted at different speeds.
What happens when there aren't enough new/other jobs for all the people, and st
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Re:The Economics of the Future (Score:5, Insightful)
Soon there will be no "menial" jobs.
Many "menial" jobs require manual dexterity far beyond what current robots can do. Many jobs require "common sense" beyond what AI can do but can be done by most humans.
Meanwhile, many highly skilled jobs are being automated. A neural network can outperform a human radiologist, which requires a medical degree. Drones outperform human pilots in many ways.
Not everyone is capable of getting a better job or learning to be an engineer.
People have been predicting mass unemployment since the steam engine was invented 300 years ago. At the time, most people worked in agriculture. Today, 98% of those farm jobs are gone, and 80% of the manufacturing jobs that replaced them are also gone. Yet, we have a full-employment economy.
The future requires that capitalism evolve.
Capitalism has been evolving for centuries. There is no reason to believe that "This time is different." Automating burger-flipping is no different than automation of threshing wheat or welding car frames.
Re:The Economics of the Future (Score:5, Insightful)
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Many "menial" jobs require manual dexterity far beyond what current robots can do. Many jobs require "common sense" beyond what AI can do but can be done by most humans.
Meanwhile, many highly skilled jobs are being automated. A neural network can outperform a human radiologist, which requires a medical degree. Drones outperform human pilots in many ways.
I'm reading this as you know AI replacing all menial jobs is bullshit, because you are familiar with how nuanced manual labor can be, but diagnostic radiology, which you are not familiar with, the bullshit meter stops pinging.
Do you see how that works? It's like snickering at "AI replacing programmers", but seriously believing music is under threat.
Or the journalist writing the "AI might replace blah" article, they'd know AI replacing what they do is a joke, but not transfer that skepticism to the thing th
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A neural network can outperform a human radiologist, which requires a medical degree.
I think the main problem is not that an AI is not able to pattern-match things a radiologist can see in a XRay radio, but the problem of liability in case of error.
You can sue a radiologist if he makes a wrong diagnosis. Can you sue an AI?
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Many "menial" jobs require manual dexterity far beyond what current robots can do. Many jobs require "common sense" beyond what AI can do but can be done by most humans.
This isn't true in a broad sense. A lot of the reason why menial jobs are not automated is not because we can't automate them with current technology, but that human menial workers are absurdly cheap.
In contrast, radiologists and pilots are expensive, so there is more money to be made from automating them, and this is where the current focus is.
Yet, we have a full-employment economy.
Indeed. I don't think we are at a stage where all jobs are going to be automated away next year, or even in the next decade, I just think it's important to think abo
there is a huge difference (Score:3)
This is not the case today : menial job are disappearing without menial job new branch opening. So what do you suggest ?
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The fun will start once robots are better at EVERYTHING humans do. Not only the menial tasks, but also coordination, creativity and leadership. The end is there once they have that and are also more sympathetic.
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Who refills the pizza machine? Oh, a robot in a self driving car. Who makes the pizza sauce and cheese? Right, fully automated factories.
Point being, there will always be something for humans to do, even if it's just fixing the robots. There will always be menial jobs. There will not be enough
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1 human refills many pizza robots. 1 human supports the whole company's pizza robots. 1 farmer manages a mega farm of robots and an IT service which helps multiple farms; occasionally, they send in a farm tech... Higher paid experts but so productive they replace 1000s of humans.
A few jobs are too difficult for the AI so your kids playing their favorite freemium game end up solving difficult AI problems for free ... humans but not paid ones.
Unaware humans solving problems the machines find difficult...mayb
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I'm not sure how much this will help them. (Score:2)
Re:I'm not sure how much this will help them. (Score:5, Funny)
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A Whopper is disgusting. Let me know when they can serve me a filet mignon, medium rare.
(C'mon, guys. Pay it forward.)
Re: I'm not sure how much this will help them. (Score:3)
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I thought this was the hamburger channel.
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If it's disgusting then why do you spend so much effort trying to make your vegetable paste look, smell, and taste just like meat? Fruits, grains, and vegetables are delicious without trying to make them into something they're not.
This is what I don't understand either. There's a lot of places and effort to make burgers seem like meat, but processing vegetables often ends up ruining the taste. There's only one place locally that serves a vege burger where you can see vegetables inside it, and it tastes wonderful.
Chances are, closer to raw would have less factory effort involved.
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Whoppers are grilled on a chain-driven rack. The cooking is already automated for them.
All you need is an automated feed of the frozen patties and a better system to collect the grilled patty at the end and put it on a bun.
I would be concerned (Score:3)
But having 3 universal brand co-bots to tend to that are brand new state of the art machines ... my god are they are fuckin pain in the ass. Robots work great in factories and other industrial settings cause there is a team of engineers and technicians already there. Add in the extra bonus points of having brand X vision system's and everything glued together by brand Y's PLC and strap on a brand Z HMI and things get pretty interesting.
Now something like what they have may be more tightly integrated than industrial leggo (which its not btw) what happens when it stops working, even if its a soft e-stop and just needs a button pressed ... whom is going to do that?
You tell a hourly rate employee, even a smart, skilled and well paid one ... to start mashing buttons on a thing that cost more than mid range luxury card, they look at you like you think they are stupid.
Re:I would be concerned (Score:4, Informative)
These need to be machines, not robots.
Fast food seems suited to this stuff, consistent food product being the goal.
Auto drop/lift fryers on a timer. User fills, starts process, and then dumps (after lifter shakes contents a bit), adds salt optionally.
Burgers, make a press with a mesh on the bottom plate, the press closes and cooks, top lifts, mesh lifts, "dumps" burgers. All timed. Shoot, trademark the mesh design that imprints on the burger... (and everyone loves a smash burger). Users loads the mesh outside of the heated surfaces.
Other than cleaning this keeps the users away from most hot surfaces/oils (or at least direct manipulation of such).
Full on robots, agreed, doesn't make sense.
Future scenario (Score:5, Funny)
This will cause the Russians to show up for work and hack us even more... and that's how WWIII will start - all because of robotic fast food joints.
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Who the heck... (Score:5, Funny)
... is looking for a memorable experience at a White Castle?
re: memorable experience (Score:2)
Yeah... because I mean, they even cancelled the fine dining reservations for Valentine's Day this year!
https://nypost.com/2022/01/20/... [nypost.com]
When I was a kid garbage men (Score:5, Insightful)
None of this kind of automation is anything new it's just gotten cheap enough that fast food restaurants are implementing it. It doesn't matter how low you make the wages, robots are going to take any job like this. It took a little bit longer than expected to trickle down to low-paying non-union work like fast food. But let's keep in mind that adjusted for inflation fast food workers make less today than they did 30 years ago. And with rent prices being what they are good luck surviving on even 15 an hour
The point is nothing is going to stop this kind of automation. I mean nothing short of slavery. We could bring back slavery and that would do it. But then again you've been slavery might not be enough given how much have a headache slaves are compared to robots. One of the reasons slavery went away, at least institutionalized slavery outside of prisons, is that slaves were expensive investments and there were plenty of European immigrants you could throw into your factory grinders. Why would I bother buying a slave flip my burgers and dealing with them constantly trying to overthrow me or get free when I can just have a robot?
So there really is no floor how low and how worthless life can get as a human being now. We probably should have established the notion of humans having intrinsic worth in our culture and society before we got to this point. But it was more fun to pretend we were going to be the ones on top.
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It's called a universal basic income.
Re: When I was a kid garbage men (Score:3)
UBI
Great, so now the people doing jobs which can't be replaced have to keep working while everyone else fucks around.
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Have to? You mean *get* to. Anyone can quit their job and just get the UBI if they want. But UBI income is relatively low and has low social status, so those who can will generally get a job in addition. Their work conditions will be improved, too, because they have a credible threat of quitting for just UBI instead.
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The cost of oppression needs to be factored in (Score:3)
White Castle (Score:2)
memorable moments (Score:4)
I'm pretty sure that 'memorable moments' is marketing speak for 'we might have enough time to act like we probably don't hate you'. Because we all love fake/forced chatter at checkout.
Well⦠(Score:3)
The robots should have no problem keeping themselves well oiled and greased.
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Correct. Instead of a couple of teens on the station, you'll have one machine, and the manager will be tasked with checking the machine before opening every day. Maybe someone else will load the hoppers, maybe not.
Eventually, there will be two machines as the money saved by not having humans will be saved up and used to fund redundancy. Then the station will never be offline.
No washroom breaks, no health benefits, no OT, no holidays, no showing up late. The machine will always be there with a minimal on
The real problem being solved (Score:4, Insightful)
This may not be the case everywhere, but around here I’ve noticed several different fast food places closed on random days because they are short staffed.
"White Castle To Hire" (Score:3)
WTF?!
One does not "hire" automation.
Who is writing this junk anyway?
English is funny - words have meaning (Score:4)
Hire robots? Yeah, let's pay robots a fair wage for a fair day's work.... This utter nonsense flowed out of a journalist's or editor's lump of fat between their ears and was deemed worthy of publication. Their opinion of their reader is exceedingly low.
The reality is that demand and pay for unskilled labor continues to decrease. That's progress. Those who own and produce technology capable of industrialization are the ones collecting a pay check, not their robots which are simply property. That's capitalism. And seizing the means of production to be collectively controlled by those who depend on it for their lively hoods? That's democracy.
#MinimumWageFail (Score:2)
All those entry level jobs gone. Why not $75/hr?
Reminds me of something (Score:3)
Looks like a fancy vending machine.