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Hardware

Valve Opens Up a Steam Deck To Explain Why It Thinks You Shouldn't (theverge.com) 107

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Valve has posted an official teardown of its upcoming handheld gaming PC, the Steam Deck. Before diving into the teardown, though, the company spends about a minute to strongly caution against taking one apart unless you're sure you know what you're doing. "Even though it's your PC -- or it will be once you've received your Steam Deck -- and you have every right to open it up and do what you want, we at Valve really don't recommend that you ever open it up," a Valve representative said in the video. "The Steam Deck is a very tightly designed system, and the parts are chosen carefully for this product with its specific construction, so they aren't really designed to be user-swappable." Despite its warnings, however, the company likely understands that people are going to take the Steam Deck apart anyway, so this video could be a handy resource for people who are considering doing so.

In the video, Valve shows how to swap out two parts of the system. First, Valve shows how to replace the thumbsticks. The company cautions that they are completely custom, but says that it will offer a source for "replacement parts, thumbsticks, SSDs, and possibly more" in the coming months. After that, Valve shows how to swap out the SSD, which could be helpful for people who may have reserved the cheapest version of the device with an eMMC hard drive with the intention of upgrading it themselves. Be aware that all versions of the Steam Deck use an m.2 connector, including the version with the eMMC drive, so if you plan to make a swap, you're going to have to reinstall the OS and bring over any games you might have had loaded on your other drive.

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Valve Opens Up a Steam Deck To Explain Why It Thinks You Shouldn't

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  • Cleaning dust? (Score:5, Informative)

    by fazig ( 2909523 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @06:23AM (#61868671)
    Have they designed it to be resistant or immune to dust accumulation?
    Because according to my personal experience when it comes to 'repairing' or maintaining gaming consoles that experience some issues, is that one of the first steps is to clean out the dust that clogs up any of the already bad airflow in their cases, leading to overheating.

    I'm not exactly sure how this happens, because my electronics don't ever look like that while I do not actively clean them, but apparently some people operate their gaming hardware in very dusty environments.
    • Re:Cleaning dust? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @07:21AM (#61868769)

      It has active cooling, which requires channeling air through the device's heat sinks, which means they will accumulate dust regardless of protection otherwise.

      There are also severe problems building things like joysticks that would have meaningful dust resistance. You can, but they'd have to be extremely stiff and could not be used as buttons.

      • by fazig ( 2909523 )
        More of a rhetoric question. *I've seen pictures. But I should have been more clearer in the wording.

        However you could build devices that are IP6x compliant here.
        But that usually means that there's no airflow in them. You can also make a joystick, compliant by covering the base with the joint and possible clutches in a silicone bellows, which is often done for industrial peripherals.
        The former would be counterindicated for a device that generates a considerable enough amount of heat during operation doe
      • Re:Cleaning dust? (Score:4, Informative)

        by v1 ( 525388 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @07:58AM (#61868829) Homepage Journal

        It has active cooling, which requires channeling air through the device's heat sinks, which means they will accumulate dust regardless of protection otherwise.

        Close to 100% of "consumer-grade" gear had no air filtration. Around 30% of commercial gear DOES have air filtration. When I spot it, I consider it a "mark of quality". These people care about this kit, they want it to get good cooling and they don't want it to get clogged up with dust!

        When I service gear that has air filtration, what I usually find is the forced cooling is pretty high volume, (sometimes quite, but often not) and the inside isn't dust-free, but what's in there is extremely fine, like a light dusting of grey flour. It's very easy to blow out, but you definitely want to take it outside because it lingers in the air a long time and is pretty unpleasant to breathe in.

        Considering how great computers are at moving air and collecting dust, (ESPECIALLY when placed on the floor, under a desk, on a wood floor is the WOST), I'm amazed more computers don't come with changeable air filters.

        The sim lab here has four racks of five 5-U cpus, and when I service them, I remove the (washable) filters and take them into the bathroom. Pull the filters out of the cages and rinse them in warm water. For the first few seconds, the water turns a shockingly dark grey, then gradually lightens up as I repeatedly rinse and squeeze. The on to the next one. Let them dry and back in service. The insides of those computers stay remarkably clean.

        It's not impossible, it's not rocket science, and it's not cutting edge. It just has to be something the consumer is willing to pay a few dollars extra for, which sadly, in most markets, is not the case. But when you're paying selling $40k sims, the consumer doesn't notice a $30 bump in cost for well-designed airflow, tighter case seals, and a cleanable air filter.

        • You have to remember, this is people we’re talking about. The same ones who remember to change their furnace/AC filter once a year, not monthly. And the same people who wonder why their clothes dryer takes 4 hours to dry clothes, because they never empty the lint trap. Adding a filter to their game machine is just going to kill the game machine faster when the filter plugs enough to essentially stop air flow.
        • If you want air filters with lower air resistance and capable to still allow some air circulation after they're filled with dust, they _need_ a somewhat large volume. Not a problem in (even) a mini-tower, but most certainly an issue in something like a Nintendo Switch, MacBook Air, premium gaming laptop (or the Steam Deck).

          • by v1 ( 525388 )

            I'll agree with that, some gear is prohibitively small to put a proper air filter in, and the previous comment also, that some people won't change or clean the filter and that will lead to overheat. But it can't be that hard to add an air pressure sensor (they're cheap, and surface mountable) to let the gear know when the trap is full and pop a nag for the user to clean it.

    • Just stick a dyson up to the air vents of the device :-) those vacs could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch. Just as the thread pulls in my berber carpet.
      • I once tried to clean up my license plate with a Dyson just to see what would happen. The damn thing sucked the letters and numbers right of the plate.

      • ... those vacs could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch ...

        That's why I use Firefox with my trailer hitches ...

    • Because according to my personal experience when it comes to 'repairing' or maintaining gaming consoles that experience some issues, is that one of the first steps is to clean out the dust that clogs up any of the already bad airflow in their cases, leading to overheating.

      It can clog airflow and it can also interfere with the edgecard connector on the game cartridge. So first thing I'd always blow out the Atari 2600 cartridge and clean the contacts with a pencil eraser, then get back to my Pong marathon.

  • by diffract ( 7165501 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @06:32AM (#61868679)
    I feel a strong urge to buy this and support companies who don't treat customers like idiots, and show them how to repair their devices instead of throwing them away when they fail.
    • My thoughts exactly. I really hope this thing is a success. If it does get popular it will hopefully break the windows stranglehold on PC gaming.
      • by zlives ( 2009072 )

        I hope so as well

      • by k0t0n ( 7251482 )
        Most of the people who will buy this already own gaming PCs running windows, which will still be preferable compared to this handheld. This will not replace windows gaming, it will complement it
        • I was thinking more along the lines that many game developers don't bother making linux versions because the market is so small, so a chicken and egg problem. As this runs linux, if it is popular, developers might have more incentive to develop a dedicated linux version rather than rely on a wine port. I'll admit that I'm slightly biased but I think linux is by far the best option for supporting games because it is so versatile and runs more efficiently (NTFS vs EXT being a notable example). Serious gamers
        • The point is... those who buy it have a linux market... and if in the process of game dev's targeting this, they also make the games compatible with any linux system.. (which is already happening with Easy anti-cheat and batleye that have put supporting linux on the back burner for years... now all of a sudden in 2 weeks both claim compatibility). So while the steam deck may not be the main driver for these guys... the idea of installing linux (or just steam's flavor of linux) on their gaming PCs may not be
    • I wish more (all) companies took this approach!

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @10:12AM (#61869107) Homepage Journal

      Having watched the video I'm inclined to agree. This this is very repairable, and the battery isn't too hard to replace either. No glue, just two types of screw that are both standard ones (no security or unusual shape BS). The thumb sticks, the parts most likely to need replacing, are on little PCBs with easy release ribbon cables.

      One question remaining is how easy the battery is to remove. Often batteries are glued in, partially to prevent the rattling around and getting damaged. The amount and type of glue determined how easy they are to get out. There is also the battery connector, some are soldered but most plug in. Unfortunately the video didn't show battery replacement.

      The other thing I'd like to know is how easy the screen is to replace. It looks like everything has to come out. No idea if it is glued in or not.

    • Same here. It's good that they caution users about the risks, but I'm glad that they still recognize it to be the user's device and the user's prerogative to repair it.
    • by Toad-san ( 64810 )

      Agreed.

  • Of course they say don't do it. Because otherwise some litigious idiot will sue them as soon as the thing is delivered. There are countries in this world, where you have to tell people to not stick the newly bought knife in their eye, or they will sue you....
    • That sounds a lot like the USA. In many (most) other countries, they have fines instead of punitive damages. They might not have juries who are sympathetic towards little people fighting megacorps. They might have laws against no-cure-no-pay deals from lawyers. They tend to award only actual damages. And they have little patience for stupidity. In other words, in most countries you can recover actual damages from companies, but it won't be a sweet payday. Hence there's little incentive to sue for stup
    • Of course they say don't do it. Because otherwise some litigious idiot will sue them as soon as the thing is delivered. There are countries in this world, where you have to tell people to not stick the newly bought knife in their eye, or they will sue you....

      It looks no more difficult than replacing components on a modern laptop. Actually it looks easier, if anything. I had to pull the entire motherboard out of my laptop to upgrade the RAM and populate the secondary SSD slot (serves me right for buying a 'thin and light' gaming laptop).

  • Evil company (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @06:58AM (#61868737)

    This is why the Steam monopoly is bad and companies like Valve are ruining the industry. Thank god we have Epic games and their bought exclusives so "save PC gaming".

    If Valve continues unchecked consumers may grow accustomed to not being treated like shit. That'll be the end of the gaming industry as we know it.

    Also #freefortnite or something like that. /sarcasm

    On a real note: This right here is why Epic and their shitshow needs to be boycotted and Valve needs to be supported. Companies which treat users with respect are few and far between.

    • Re:Evil company (Score:5, Informative)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @07:30AM (#61868781)

      And this is why corporate fanboyism is bad. "My company did something good, and so you should overlook the bad things it does. Fuck its competitors".

      Valve's pricing model is anti-competitive to the extreme. It literally bans developers from compensating for Valve's high store tax on other store fronts. I.e. if you sell at Epic that takes less of a cut than Valve, you're not allowed to pass savings to the customer and keep your game on Steam. Valve's contract forbids it. You must charge the same price on Epic.

      And that is what Epic is trying to break. And these is the kind of anti-competitive clauses on sales contracts that should frankly be legislated against and Valve threatened with extreme fines for violations of this legislation.

      After all, that's how we got the ability to refund games on steam for example. After the long stream of bitching from Valve that essentially said something to the line of "this can't be done, because digital goods are special and not covered under customer protection legislation in any of the nations. Yes we know that some regulators already stated that we're wrong, but we don't care because they can't fine us enough to counter the profits we get from not giving you refunds. Wait, fuck, EU is getting involved and their fines actually would hurt our bottom line more than giving people refunds. Fine, we'll give you your legally mandated return window, but we'll do it under the guise of us doing it totally voluntarily out of our own accord for PR. Forget all the nonsense we were spouting for years. Please don't slam us with record fines..."

      Because corporations don't take hits to their bottom line out of the goodness of their hears. They simply do the profit calculus.

      • by zlives ( 2009072 )

        And in your example EPIC is the good? Corporation
        I am probably just old enough to remember the days of local ISP allowed to compete by govt mandated pricing competitiveness and look how that ended without the competition in place

        • by Anonymous Coward
          Black and white logic is the problem. This isn't the Highlander world where there can only be one. Another problem is that Epic had to be brought up for some reason in the first place, since the article has absolutely nothing to do with Epic. You can praise Valve's attempt to honor the "right to repair" philosophy by showing a how to disassemble their device by themselves, and stating that you own the hardware, without saying that Epic must be boycotted.

          If you still don't get it, think about someone const
      • by zlives ( 2009072 )

        I also am old enough to remember how valve started out, with their nannyware, again competition is good.

      • Yeah. That's why we need competition. So that, hopefully, no company can get too much marketshare and start treating their customers badly.
        I wondered why Epic choose to compete by giving games for free (fine) or having some games a exclusives or timed-exclusives to their store (I really dislike this one) and turns out Steam forbids you from selling a game cheaper in other stores.
        That's not right. Everyone should be free to sell their games at different price points on different stores. Also, as I said, I
        • by Anonymous Coward

          That luckyo guy is literally talking out of his ass. You can compare for yourself the price of games on the publishers own digital store and on Steam and you'll find EA and Ubisoft sell their games cheaper on their own site than on Steam. This wouldnt be possible if what luckyo says is factual. Furthermore sites like Greemangaming, Indiegala, Gamersgate and Humblebumble regularly sell legitimate Steam keys cheaper than on the Steam site and Valve gets a 0% cut from these sales.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Bullshit. If what you say is true then this wouldnt be the reality right fucking now:

        Tom Clancys Ghost Recon Wildlands

        Epic A$11.24
        Steam A$14.99
        GreenmanGaming A$9.56
        Ubisoft Store A$11.24

        As you can see Steam has the most expensive price right now for this game and except for GreenmanGaming which sets the price themselves, the price and discount on epic, Steam and the Ubisoft store is set by Ubisoft.

        And don't forget even if its cheaper on the epic store you're getting less stuff on there so you the customer ne

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Re:Evil company (Score:4, Insightful)

        by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @12:29PM (#61869403)

        And this is why corporate fanboyism is bad. "My company did something good, and so you should overlook the bad things it does. Fuck its competitors".

        No favnboyism here. I just support companies that provide products and services of value.

        Valve's pricing model is anti-competitive to the extreme. It literally bans developers from compensating for Valve's high store tax on other store fronts.

        It does not such thing. In fact Valve specifically allow developers to sell Steam keys on other store and keep 100% of the profit taking no cut. And your example is easily disproven by the varying prices of games listed on Steam all over the internet. Sure you can point to it having been a policy in the past, but I'm more interested in you finding a single case where that policy has ever been enforced? I can show you countless examples of where it gets broken. So you should come up with plenty of evidence of evil Valve clamping down right?

        And that is what Epic is trying to break.

        No. Epic wants a piece of the cut. Nothing more. Nothing less. The same Epic mind you that takes a cut of Steam sales if Unreal engine is used. The same Epic that promises the world cheaper software while often charging *more* than Steam for the same game while offering the users significantly less in return.

        Wait, fuck, EU is getting involved

        Nope. Try again. The refund policy was introduced due to Steam wanting to get a local market in Australia and Korea. Those were the only two countries which had a mandate for digital refunds. The refund policy globally coincided with the introduction of local support for transactions in both Australian dollar and Won.

        Mind you, not sure what that irrelevant drivel has to do with anything. It's not like Epic made them do that. In fact Epic only introduced refunds at the start of the year.

        Because corporations don't take hits to their bottom line

        Why do you think being a good citizen equates to taking hit to the bottom line?

        For future record since you have a lot of trouble with the concept: Hating one company doesn't make you a fanboi of another. So with that out of the way why don't you tell us how Valve providing parts as well as disassembly videos is bad for us? Or tell us how Valve specifically not supporting exclusive contracts is bad for us? Or Valve providing a service people want to use to the point where another company literally pours billions of dollars into attempting buying users for their substandard service is bad for us?

        The idea that Valve was some kind of evil monopoly is a fantasy created by Tim Sweeny's Twitter feed. Good work falling for it.

    • They are making a new form factor hand held console like a switch but out of a PC, using Linux as the operating system, which you can freely hack and modify, providing free and open explanation about the internals of said hardware and then explaining why they did what they did in a clear way. Oh and then they are making all the software freely available for anyone to install on their own PC.

      Yes. Very evil.

    • Respect? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @08:10AM (#61868853) Journal

      I'd say Valve treats its customers with indifference rather than open hostility which by contrast makes them look like the best.

      It took a long time and legal requirements from other countries to force a reasonable refund policy. My Steam account is 18 years old and I remember what it was like without them - organizational nightmare, but one with freedom.

      • Yes indeed. Digital refunds were only a thing in South Korea and Australia. Valve wanting to enter those markets locally forced them to open up. In that regard they were as bad as any other company.

        Incidentally you can thank Australia for Microsoft extending its warranty on Xbox360s as well for the red-ring issue, specifically the expected performance clause in the Trade Practices Act. Some 13year old filed a complaint with the regulator that his xbox suddenly died out of warranty and the regulator smacked

  • But then I'm not a gamer. Looking at it though, what its USP? Surely a pro gamer wants a top of the line gaming PC or console while a casual gamer isn't going to drop a ton on something like this in the first place?

    • It's an overpriced-for-specs handheld gaming PC that they claim you'll run AAA games on but you won't, because the GPU is weak. Your PC will have to do the heavy lifting for serious games.

      I'd love to have one, but for less money :)

      • I'm confused as to why you think it is over-priced. Where can you find a Ryzen 3 with 16gb RAM cheaper then the steamdeck?

        • In my laptop whose ram I upgraded, still cheaper than a steam deck even with a full size display.

          What are you, Tucker Carlson? Just sitting there asking easy questions while looking puzzled as if it lends your argument legitimacy?

          • I genuinely don't believe you when you claim to have found a sub $400 laptop with upgradeable ram.

            • I genuinely own one, I got it at fucking wally world and it has an HP badge on it, and a Ryzen 3 in it. I am now running Linux on it, because it came with Windows 10 and that is shit.

              If you want to call me a liar that's fine, but you can fuck right off into the wind

              • Then why don't you tell us all the details? It's an HP, fine. But what model? Where did you buy it? Etc.

                • I don't owe you shit and I already told you where I bought it. Odds are they don't even have it any more.

                  Here's an Amazon link to a laptop which comes with 16GB and is the same price as the steam deck despite having a full size screen and a keyboard, it was my top google result. How about learning to internet? https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Vi... [amazon.com]

                  • Zironic asked about a sub-400$USD laptop and your reply is a 549$USD laptop (on sale from 599$USD, too).

                    And yes, you do owe us shit. You're making claims that you don't back up so the burden of proof is on you. What's on the line here is your own credibility on these forums.

                    • And yes, you do owe us shit. You're making claims that you don't back up so the burden of proof is on you. What's on the line here is your own credibility on these forums.

                      I literally do not give one fuck if lazy toolbags like you think I'm a liar. This will not affect my life in any negative way.

                    • Stop acting like slashdot is some sort of formal debating club that sticks to rules that exist only in your head. In casual conversation you are neither expected nor required to cite every utterance. A cheapass laptop with socketed RAM is not some wildly unrealistic thing. It's not like drinkypoo is making some sort of extraordinary claim that one would have strong cause to be skeptical of. Like yeah if he had said it (a) has socketed RAM and (b) cures COVID then yes, you'd be right to express skepticism.

                    • It's good that you feel no pressure toward strangers on a public forum. Stress is a huge problem in today's society.

                      On another note, you have the honour of being the first one of calling me a "lazy toolbag" in my life!

                      Now, I do have to search what exactly a "toolbag" is supposed to mean as an insult. I guess it's true what they say: you learn something new every day!

                      Good day, sir!

                    • Considering that no one has so far managed to provide an example of an equivalent spec machine to the Steam Deck that is cheaper, maybe it's not quite so easy to find as you seem to think.

                    • Well, apart from being wrong you're also a dick about it. Winning combo there.

                    • Still waiting on that cheaper equivalent spec machine, just saying.

                    • Dual core vs quad core. Dual channel vs quad channel. 3 1.2ghz Vega cores vs 8 RDNA 2 1.6ghz cores.

                      Try again I suppose.

                    • Stop acting like slashdot is some sort of formal debating club that sticks to rules that exist only in your head.

                      You're right, I'm sorry. I assumed most people on Slashdot were actual human beings able to carry adult conversations in a civilized manner. Thanks for reminding me that it's not that kind of place.

                      Seriously, why should we be the ones looking up facts to support drinkypoo's claims? Do people need to be reminded how argumentation works? If someone say something and people don't believe them, they'

                    • You're right,

                      I am.

                      I'm sorry.

                      You ought to be.

                      I assumed most people on Slashdot were actual human beings able to carry adult conversations in a civilized manner.

                      They are. And most adults aren't wankers who assume every casual conversation is some sort of bizarre formal debate the act like shit heads.

                  • So you couldn't find one cheaper, how can you claim the steam deck is over priced for spec?

            • If I may, Walmart sold one called a "Motile 14" with a Ryzen 5, 2 m.2 slots, etc.
              There is a solid review of it right here.
              https://linustechtips.com/topi... [linustechtips.com]

              • While the Motile is certainly cheap, it's problematic for gaming since it's single channel memory where the Steam Deck is quad channel so I'm not convinced it makes for a good argument the Steam Deck is over-priced.

                If anything the fact it's very similarly priced to the Steam Deck show that Valve is taking almost no or negative margin.

                • I believe you stated disbelief that an upgradable sub-400$ Ryzen laptop didn't exist.
                  You didn't say anything about it having to be a good gaming machine as well.
                  I merely pointed out that said laptops do exist, I feel you are moving the goalposts here...

                  • Goalpost was always better value then the Steam Deck since the accusation was that it's poor value.

            • AND a decent gpu inside too that you can game on
      • Protip: GPU is just fine for a 720p resolution, and a 720p resolution is just fine for an 8" screen. So yes, you will be able to play AAA titles on it. :)

    • Surely one can enjoy playing League on their PC and want one of these to play Civilization in bed.

    • by Zironic ( 1112127 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @07:39AM (#61868791)

      It's designed to play PC games on the go, the reason it can play PC games even though the specs are relatively low is that the tiny screen means it can get away with running them at a low resolution.

      It also excels at being used as an emulator for those who enjoy retro gaming. It's also interesting for tech enthusiasts since it's a tiny form-factor PC at a surprisingly reasonable price, you could probably have fun installing Kali Linux or whatever on it.

      • by zlives ( 2009072 )

        Good points, no mod points

      • by fazig ( 2909523 )
        Depends on the game.

        If we're talking something like Kerbal Space Program, it's mostly CPU limited in its performance.
        Similar things are true for many games that contain a significant amount of physics simulation, because most of the gameplay relevant physics simulation is processed CPU. That low resolution isn't going to help you much with that, because the physics is done at single precision or double (depends on how precise it needs to be) regardless of the resolution.
        • Most games which are CPU limited are also single-threaded. So you're unlikely to get much more performance then a Ryzen 3 either way.

          Where the steam deck will perform poorly compared to a high end desktop is in heavily multi-threaded applications but that is highly rare in the world of gaming.

          • by fazig ( 2909523 )
            That is not correct. You can get a lot more single threaded performance than a Zen 2 Ryzen 3 from a desktop Zen 2 Ryzen that clocks higher, Intel desktop post 8th generation, or any Zen 3 Ryzen.

            You can get a rough overview of single threaded performance from this chart: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/s... [cpubenchmark.net]
            Of course that's just a synthetic benchmark, but it does correlate well with gaming performance where the CPU is the bottleneck.

            My Ryzen 9 3900X for example can sustain single core clocks of 4.3GHz eas
            • I suppose that depends on if you think 10-20% better performance is 'a lot' in context. For mobile gaming being within 20% of a dedicated desktop is amazing and plenty good for purposes such as Kerbal Space Program.

              Meanwhile if the deck tried to power a 1080P screen rather then 800P it would produce an unplayable slideshow for many games since that is a 100% increase in pixels.

              • by fazig ( 2909523 )
                Disclaimer: I'm not saying that you can't play games. But I'm saying that people should have realistic expectations from the hardware. And that includes understanding how the hardware impacts gaming performance.

                There's the notion out there that all you need for gaming is a good GPU (performance correlates with resolution and graphics settings). And I suppose that is generally true for most "blockbuster" AAA games out there, where people want to play at max fidelity and high resolution. Because in such a s
                • According to benchmarks, the R4 4300G has almost the exact same single thread performance as my current desktop CPU (6700K).

                  While faster is always nicer, I've certainly not had any issues with any CPU bound games so far. CPU almost never causes a framerate issue, where you notice lack of CPU horsepower the most tend to be simulation speed, for instance a few hundred years into any Paradox Interactive game.

                  • by fazig ( 2909523 )
                    Valve should have the statistics of what's played most frequently on their platform, so when they say that most games will play fine, that's likely true. But those outliers need to be kept in mind.

                    Do you play Kerbal Space Program and have constructed something complex with a low physics time step (high temporal resolution/high game speed)?

                    Yes, it can manifest itself in simulation speed, depends on how the game is set up.
                    Some simulations use variable time steps, like some RTS and City Builders, where y
                    • The Steam Deck is designed with that exactly in mind however. They're using a relatively fast CPU and very fast memory (5,500MT/s) and compensate for the relatively slow GPU with the smaller screen.

                      I don't see any way they could design it even better for that purpose keeping the realities of power draw and heat dissipation in mind. Obviously it can't handle everything, it's not magic but it seems to me to be well designed for the purpose of playing PC games on a handheld.

                    • by fazig ( 2909523 )
                      No doubt, for a handheld the hardware is pretty badass.
                      But if you start comparing it with even modern notebooks, which of course are much larger, the CPU is not that powerful.

                      Personally I would have been a lot more excited if they put a Zen 3 mobile CPU into it. For that architecture, even the mobile CPUs are quite outstanding compared to older desktop models. Check out the Ryzen 3 5300G.
                    • My assumption is that their reasoning is power draw related. The APU they designed for the Steam Deck is rated for less then half the power draw of the 5300G (4-15W vs 45-65W).

                      With a battery that only has 40WHr it wouldn't even last an hour with a 5300G so not sure how exciting that would be. With their current APU they can do 2-8 hours which is decent enough for a handheld.

                    • by fazig ( 2909523 )
                      They could underclock and undervolt the Zen 3, just like they do it with the Zen 2.
                      Power draw in CMOS electronics does not scale linearly with the voltage that is required to maintain a clean enough signal, it scales with the square of the voltage. Underclocking and undervolting hardware is a pretty common thing to increase power efficiency and due to lower heat generation also the power requirement for cooling, where efficiency is the main goal (like crypto mining that's done on GPUs). That's the main rea
                    • The Xbox X and Playstation 5 are a good point. Since they use Zen 2 + RDNA2 Valve could probably get their low power APU built very cheaply while a Zen 3 APU variant would have to be designed from scratch which would make development a bunch more expensive and maybe introduce years of delays with the current state of waiting time on the fabs.

                      I wonder if it's even the case they're buying the exact same cores as Microsoft and Sony just arranged a bit differently.

                    • by fazig ( 2909523 )
                      I am not exactly sure what is on the CPU PCB for the Steam Deck.
                      In general, Zen 2 has and element called CCD's, which contain two CCX's (core complex). Those CCX's communicate through the Infinity Fabric bus, just like different CCD's do. A CCX contains 4 physical CPU cores, with a shared L3 cache (allows for communication between the cores on the same CCX through that cache), where 2 to 4 cores are active depending on how AMD binned the silicon.

                      In the case of Zen 2 there were two models with 4 cores on
                    • It's my understanding that the particular variant of Zen 2 that Microsoft and Sony are using already has a unified cache and since the Steam Deck will use the same architecture, I would assume it'll also be unified.

                      The reasoning for doing it this way is because the Xbox, Playstation and now Steamdeck are designed with much higher memory bandwidth then normal.

                    • by fazig ( 2909523 )
                      I didn't know about those recent die-shots this is based on.

                      Though I'd wait for official confirmation of the alleged functionality, because this would indeed be a big deal when comparing these console CPUs to Zen 2 on desktop, possibly improving their single threaded performance by a great deal. Since a single thread could access such a large cache of 'relatively' fast memory it wouldn't have to deal with as many cache faults (type of page fault concerning caches) requiring to access the 'slower' (by comp
      • Seems like it would be cool to use as a drone remote.

      • Proton is wine. Wine stands for "wine is not an emulator". It simply maps API calls to the Linux equivalent.

    • But then I'm not a gamer.

      Maybe not. But are [slashdot.org] you [slashdot.org] a [slashdot.org] Slashdotter? [slashdot.org]

  • I'm really trying to be annoyed at Valve because they are a quasi monopoly and really aren't very good with returns...
    But I just don't know how to spin this in a negative way...

    • > quasi monopoly

      Is this like "Jumbo Shrimp"? They're certainly a big player, but not the only one. I don't really see how being successful means we have to dislike a company. Now, if they engage in practices that make things worse for consumers, we can deride that. And I'm sure they do, but I'd honestly be surprised if its anything nonstandard. That is- anything that Epic, GOG, Amazon, Google, etc also do.

      > really aren't very good with returns

      Can you please explain this? I have never had a problem wit

    • Before buying my first game on the Nintendo eShop I was wondering what the return policy was. Essentially its "No refund". Same for most of the other consoles out there (Sony, Microsoft). Same with buying the physical game (Amazon, and any store really).

      Steam is one of the very few places that I can return a game just because it sucked.

  • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Thursday October 07, 2021 @10:44AM (#61869173) Journal
    The basic "we don't recommend futzing with a tightly packed mobile device" advice is obvious enough; and details like "the SSD is near the wifi, so keep it in mind that we gave specific thought to that" are helpful; but I was horrified to see a mention of self-tapping screws.

    Proper threaded inserts for injection moulded parts aren't exactly an expensive premium feature; and they let you use machine screws and make screwing and unscrewing more or less entirely nondestructive; rather than every touch tearing a bit more at the plastic the screws bite into. How many pennies were they pinching to not get screw inserts?
    • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

      Given that it is easy enough to open, I wonder if someone will make an industrial upgrade mod, or an overclock mod for it. I wonder how much power margin the battery has.

    • but I was horrified to see a mention of self-tapping screws

      An image of a Tamiya Grasshopper popped into my head... I only threw up a little.

  • I like that the Mfg acknowledges that their target users are the kinds of people that will want to open up their devices and see what's inside, so they release a video to satisfy the majority of curious customers and reduce the temptation to 'crack it open'.

    Also, for those that do decide to open the case, it provides a resource to help get everything back together correctly.

    Finally, it's a good bit of marketing PR, showing off the engineer's hard work.

  • Really a non story. This was a common thing scince the late 1960s.

    • It is a story, PRECISELY, because that type of crime is *still* a thing.

      Yes. It is harmful. To me and to you. Harm... that's my definition of a crime.

      • They are not using the DMCA or epoxy or anything else to try to prevent you from modding the hardware or replacing parts. They are simply recommending against doing those things.

        The "no user servicable parts inside" started when transistors became common inside consumer electronics, and denoted that the components were 'permanent' (soldered to the circuit board). Before that, devices used vacuum tubes which had to be replaced like light bulbs, and the "tube tester" was a common fixture at drug stores; the u

  • What a lazy lie. "a very tightly designed system, and the parts are chosen carefully for this product with its specific construction, so they aren't really designed to be user-swappable"

    So they are designedt to be hard to repair?

    Cause that's exhibit A in a repairability lawsuit right there!

    How about you design it like a non-dick would then? And quit signaling half-assed virtue until then.

  • Any laptop repair is as or more involved. Nothing in that video demonstrated any cause for alarm. It was a big nothing burger.

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