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Hardware

Framework's Repairable Laptop Is Up For Preorder (techcrunch.com) 75

Posted by BeauHD from the DIY-friendly dept.
Framework is one of an increasing number of companies working to address planned obsolescence by creating products that are incredibly customizable and easy to repair. Today, the company's Framework Laptop is up for preorder, starting at $999 and shipping at the end of July. TechCrunch reports: There are three basic configurations -- Base, Performance and Professional, ranging from $999 to $1,999, upgrading from an Intel Core i5, 8GB of Ram and 256GB of storage to a Core i7 and 32GB/1TB. Windows also gets upgraded from Home to Pro at the top level. At $749, the company offers a barebones shell, where users can plug in their own internals.

Other upgrades include: "On top of that, the Framework Laptop is deeply customizable in unique ways. Our Expansion Card system lets you choose the ports you want and which side you want them on, selecting from four at a time of USB-C, USB-A, HDMI, DisplayPort, MicroSD, ultra-fast 250GB and 1TB storage, and more. Magnetic-attach bezels are color-customizable to match your style, and the keyboard language can be swapped too."
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Framework's Repairable Laptop Is Up For Preorder More

Framework's Repairable Laptop Is Up For Preorder

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  • Will wait for some online reviews to show up.

  • Anyway, imagine trying to get people excited about an Intel laptop in 2021. And being able to choose between windows home or pro is a feature?

    • Anyway, imagine trying to get people excited about an Intel laptop in 2021. And being able to choose between windows home or pro is a feature?

      Too jaded to even take a dive into Framework's website? From their "DIY edition" page:

      "We have a variety of Expansion Cards in development including high-end headphone amps, Arduino-compatible microcontrollers, and more. We’re also opening the spec and sharing reference designs to enable partners and the community to help grow the Expansion Card ecosystem".

      Try to find those features from Dell, Lenovo, or even System 76. I hate slashverts as much as the next guy, but this seems like legit "news for ner

  • It's not much of an upgrade from my 5 year old laptop honestly., For $999 I would want: 8 cores, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2 monitors at decent res, and 12 USB ports. I think that's a basic workstation laptop. For non-technical peeps, a $199 chromebook is mostly just fine.

    • Re:Seems meh for $999 (Score:5, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:21AM (#61383542) Homepage Journal

      It seems like a mostly ordinary laptop, TBH.

      For example the CPU is soldered in, no way to replace that. Unsurprising, Intel doesn't make socketed mobile CPUs. It's nice that you get sockets for RAM and SSD, but that's hardly unique.

      In terms of reparability it doesn't look any better than the ultrabook Thinkpads, maybe less so in fact. For example the screen bezel is held in with plastic clips, so repairing the screen isn't any easier than most other laptops. They keyboard actually looks a lot worse, since it is an island type that requires the top of the case to be removed to get at it, compared to other machines where it screws in from the bottom and can be lifted out for replacement.

      The modules that let you change the ports are an interesting concept but I'd rather just have more ports. In the space they allocate for a single port you could easily fit 2 or 3 if it wasn't for the module housing taking up room. I don't really want to have to choose between USB-C, USB-A, HDMI or an SD Card reader, I want them all.

      • Thanks - this is the first thoughtful and reasoned critical response I've read in this thread. All your points are good ones, but I still think the product is worth keeping an eye on, as it looks more hobbyist / hacker friendly than anything else I'm aware of.

      • The modules all convert to USB-C internally so you could just have a bunch of USB-C ports and bring your own adapters. So the only advantage this system has is you don't need to mess with adapters.

        Apparently they're open sourcing the module design though, so it would be possible to have modules with multiple USB-C ports each I'd imagine. At that point you'd pretty much have... a bunch of USB-C ports you can connect any adapter to, if that's what you want.

      • I suppose their idea of repairability means not using those weird star-headed screws or just melting the 2 halves of the thing together.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          To be fair at least the keyboard can be replaced without replacing the entire top part of the shell, which makes it better than most Apple machines, but that's an incredibly low bar.

      • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:58AM (#61383898)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • " I don't really want to have to choose between USB-C, USB-A, HDMI or an SD Card reader, I want them all."

        My sub $200 Wintel laptop has all that. I saw the price of this laptop compared to the specs, and immediately thought "Ouch! They really need to bring down the price." :-\

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      Could you point me to ANY laptop that has 12 USB ports let alone one that sells for under $1000?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by xwin ( 848234 )

        Here you go [amazon.com]. This will add 12 USB ports to any laptop. The question may be why do you need 12 ports, but to each his own. There are also USB3 hubs available although they are more expensive. I could get away mostly with 5 port hubs, and I have a lot of devices hanging of USB, arduinos and such.

        As far as repairable laptops go, I have no trouble finding repairable laptops if I stay far away from Apple. Lenovo and Dell has been my favorites. The issue with laptop repair is not the ability to open it, but the

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Rhipf ( 525263 )

          That isn't a laptop with 12 ports that is just a port replicator. It would work on any laptop currently on the market.
          The OP was complaining that the specs on the Framework laptop wasn't all that impressive an was looking for a laptop at a price of $999 with certain specs. One of those specs was 12 USB ports. As I have never seen a laptop with 12 USB ports I was curious what laptop he/she was thinking about as a replacement.
          I also don't see why a laptop would need 12 USB ports when you can always add a hub

      • Why would anybody need 12 built in USB ports? I've never seen a laptop in any price range with this many.

        If you need that many, I would get a USB hub that's has it's own power source. Pulling that much power straight out of the laptop itself would be gnarly.

  • Enough with the stupid prices (Score:3)

    by TheNameOfNick ( 7286618 ) on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:28AM (#61383470)

    I could buy two and a half bespoke keyboards for the price of one these barebone shells. And why is my adblocker not working?

    • I could buy two and a half bespoke keyboards...

      Hilarious we're talking about a device that many thought would be long extinct by now, if we were to have believed any of the 1990's "Talk to Type!" sales hacks.

      Instead, we're doing our best to re-create a bespoke Model M, at 10x the cost.

      No, you cannot borrow my keyboard...

  • Intel only, expensive... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ecuador ( 740021 ) on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:34AM (#61383484) Homepage

    Yeah, OK, repairability is nice, but not when you pay for it dearly. The base $999 is Core i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB, which is a woefully underpowered laptop. I won't compare it to M1 macs, but there are many Ryzen 4xxx/5xxx powered laptops out there that are much cheaper, some of them somewhat repairable, others not so much, you take your pick.
    The one thing I like from the specs is the 3:2 display - I don't like 16:9 on laptops, I don't tend to buy them to watch movies. Otherwise it's an advertisement for something of little interest.
    Personally, when I buy a laptop (for myself or friends/family) I get a used Thinkpad at the $300-$500 price range (1 to 3 years old usually). They last forever, in fact my mother still likes to use her X61 from 10+ years ago, so repairability does not even come into play (the older Thinkpads are quite repairable though). For reference, the last one I got it was just before christmas, a 16GB/Ryzen 5 Pro X395 Thinkpad, like new (2.5 years left in the warranty) for $500, and it's a beautiful machine.

    • The main problem with repairable devices and appliances these days is that's cheaper to buy two or three disposables. The only reason to buy something like this is if you're a hobbyist who particularly enjoys repairing and upgrading parts for fun and doesn't mind paying more to do so.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        The main problem with repairable devices and appliances these days is that's cheaper to buy two or three disposables. The only reason to buy something like this is if you're a hobbyist who particularly enjoys repairing and upgrading parts for fun and doesn't mind paying more to do so.

        No, the main problem is replacement upgrade parts.

        For parts that are standarized like SSDs (SATA or NVMe), RAM, WiFi, Bluetooth, WWAN, the laptop interface is standard - SATA is SATA, NVMe is usually m.2 in one of two standard

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ed_1024 ( 744566 )

      I know this will appeal to a certain market segment, but is it a very large one? Where I live, there is a minimum one year mandatory manufacturer guarantee on electronic goods, and after that it is not too expensive to take out insurance or an extended warranty like AppleCare. There is a good chance if you have to call on that warranty and the repair is going to be difficult, they will give you a replacement that is technically more advanced than what you had before (happened to me with an AIO) because they

  • I had a ThinkPad last year (previous job) that was easy enough to maintain. They still had the maintenance guide on their website as well as a downloadable PDF that showed me step-by-step how to replace anything inside.

    Granted the ideapads and other lesser units may be a different matter, but the ThinkPads are still easy enough to work on.

    • The Dell Latitudes, and some of their XPS machines, are meant for lease-length reparability.

      • I had an XPS15 from 2012. If those were designed to be "repairable" it's because all the components were expected to fail. What a crap computer. Optical drive died, hard drive died, SD card slot died, the battery wore out within a year... I am gentle on computers, i know about keeping them cool, I know about battery maintenance, but this thing was an absolute lemon. Talk about form over function, it had these stupid little speakers on either side of the keyboard. If it didn't have those stupid speakers, Del

  • Now bring in a 15" with a full-size keyboard, batteries that can be swapped without resorting to a screwdriver, with an actual graphics card and I might actually buy one.

    • Re:Still useless (Score:4, Interesting)

      by gnasher719 ( 869701 ) on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:12AM (#61383530)
      Why "batteries that can be swapped without resorting to a screwdriver"? Is it because you can't handle a screwdriver, or is it because you don't have enough battery life for a day and need two batteries regularly?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Dwedit ( 232252 )

        Ooh, I can answer this one...

        Sometimes the Embedded Controller (EC) on a laptop can glitch out, and prevent the keyboard and power button from functioning, and only disconnecting and reconnecting the battery can get the computer to respond again.

      • Ever had to work in remote locations without power? I've had to do so quite frequently, and then a single battery charge is far from sufficient. So yeah, having a replaceable battery is actually pretty high on my requirement list. And external power banks have a few major issues, the primary one being that all the ones with a decent capacity aren't allowed on an airplane. (Meanwhile I can fill up my backpack with spare laptop batteries and airport security doesn't care.) Additionally, external power banks a

  • Err, what? A repairable laptop, like the rest? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    How is this any different than any other laptop, where you can also get the parts to repair it from the manufacturer or even ebay! It's pretty simple.

    There is no innovation here (or even decent hardware specs) so I'll stick to my repairable thinkpad thankyou very much.

    • More and more laptops are soldering things onto the motherboard, making them harder to repair. This laptop looks extremely modular. Storage, RAM, Wifi, and most other parts can be easily swapped out. Even the I/O is configuration with different modules that allow you to have whatever mix of I/O you want. There's 4 different modules, so you can choose all USB-C, or add DisplayPort, or HDMI, SD Card Reader, USB-A. Mix and match them however you like.

    • There's truth to your statement.

      And then there's Apple.

      Also known as the main reason we're having this discussion.

    • A lot of new laptops are going the route of soldering everything (CPU, RAM, storage) to the main board, then sealing the thing up and gluing it together. They are still repairable in the same sense that a modern smartphone is repairable - you can pry the thing apart to get at things like the battery or replace a damaged screen, but the device is still designed around the idea is that if anything goes wrong with it that's now e-waste and to just replace it.

  • Good concept! (Score:3)

    by alantus ( 882150 ) on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:06AM (#61383518)
    It looks ok-ish.
    I was thinking about making this my next laptop, until I took a look at the ridiculously large touchpad that takes almost half the available space, forcing the keyboard to be upwards, too much for my taste. Everyone in the industry has been copying Apple for way too long, they already do it by inertia, without evaluating if a design change makes sense, they copy anything Apple does like drones.
    Lenovo did the same thing with the X series, the X240 was the last one to have a normal touchpad.

    • I wonder why the "touchpad to the right of the keyboard" configuration is not more popular for laptops? It's how a lot of portable wireless keyboards are made and it's also how people who use a trackpad set them up on their desk, i.e. to the right or left of the keyboard, not below it.

      • Because that would require either a dinky little touchpad, a much larger laptop, or sacrifice of the numeric keypad (which many laptops have already sacrificed).

        The laptop dimensions are pretty much constrained by the screen. A 16:9 15" diagonal screen is going to have to be at least 8" high. That makes the housing 13" wide. A standard keyboard without numeric keypad is 11", leaving no more than 2" for the trackpad. Assuming you want the same 16:9 ratio as the screen, the trackpad is a mere 2" x 1 1/8".

        • Or you could try and push ultrawide displays on laptops. You know, "courage" and all that.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by arQon ( 447508 )

          > or sacrifice of the numeric keypad (which many laptops have already sacrificed).

          And rightly so.

          The piece you're apparently missing is that if you put a numpad on a laptop keyboard, the keyboard is WILDLY OFF CENTER, and you can't adjust the position of the screen to compensate. That's an ergonomic nightmare, where you're guaranteeing that the user is either permanently straining their neck or their shoulders to use the machine at all.
          That's fine if your laptop is just a fashion accessory only used to w

      • Touchpad on the right means that you'll be typing on the left of the keyboard, which means that the screen is not centered in front of you and that using the laptop on the lap is rather awkward.

        • That's already a problem with laptops with a numpad. I get that some people like having the numpad for what they use their computer for, but for as little as I used it, I'd prefer ditching the numpad so that the keyboard is centered.

          If they make a bigger laptop, changeable top plates would be an interesting feature. Then you pick whether you want the numpad or no numpad, plus you could potentially pick having a trackpad and/or a trackpoint, or perhaps other oddball options like putting the touchpad where

  • What in 10 years? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gnasher719 ( 869701 ) on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:09AM (#61383522)
    I'm just curious. My 2010 MacBook Pro still works just fine. Battery isn't doing too well, so it needs to be plugged in most of the time. Apart from that it's fine.

    How confident would I be that this laptop can be fixed in any way in ten years time? Being able to swap parts TODAY is quite irrelevant.

    • When my (very) old Macbook Pro's [2,1/core 2 duo] battery went, I had no trouble at all finding a replacement on Amazon. It's not worthy of going online any longer, as it's limited to 10.6.8, but other than that, it still works great. And I love the huge display.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Wolfrider ( 856 )

        --You should be able to turn off SIP, install ReFind, and boot Linux on it - then it would still be useful for online. That or just go with a Raspberry Pi with pihole and ublock. I still have a 2008 24-inch iMac that I installed Linux + OSX 10.11 El Cap on a Samsung T5, and it worked fine even with USB 2 ports.

    • I'm just curious. My 2010 MacBook Pro still works just fine. Battery isn't doing too well, so it needs to be plugged in most of the time. Apart from that it's fine.

      So, you're still running a current version of OSX that is still fully patched from a security standpoint from the provider?

      If not, you have a very shitty way of defining "just fine".

      • Itâ(TM)s still fully patched from a security standpoint. Apple does security updates for older versions. On iOS, there is 12.5.2 for iPhone 6 or older, and iOS 14.5.1 for iPhone 6s and newer.

        • Nice try, but a 2010 Macbook Pro is running at best High Sierra, which is no longer supported by Apple.

  • I've been repairing and building Thinkpads from wrecks for many years thanks to their design and the excellent HMM and the community and the aftermarket support.

    It would be nice if notebooks shared a form factor like desktops but makers want product differentiation and new notebooks are trivially cheap for what they are and do. (If you make tech money using it for work the cost is a trifle compared say to filling a mechanic's toolbox (let alone his/her other toolboxes, and if you aren't using it for profit

  • Swappable keyboards is a feature of Thinkpad laptops since forever, and even a common feature among other laptops.

    Being able to upgrade RAM and CPU? Been there, done that. Upgradable storage? All yours even in slim-and-light models.So what's repairable? Does one get full board schematics and guaranteed access to replacement components and modules for the next N years? Doesn't seem like it.

    So then these built-in dongles are what one is supposed to get excited about, I guess? Very Apple-esque, with just

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Zarquon ( 1778 )

      More and more laptop keyboards are getting heat-staked to the palmrest. I ditched an otherwise usable MSI laptop because it was too hard to source/expensive to replace the keyboard. I replaced it with a dell that was also heatstaked, but at least the parts were available.

  • I like the whole idea. And not having to buy a USB hub is a real help. Some office users here say they have to have a 15 inch with numpad, but for highly portable these might do the trick.

  • This laptop is missing the only reason to buy a upgradeable laptop: ability to upgrade the gpu. https://frame.work/products/la... [frame.work] there is no option for gpu choices, you get Intel onboard gpu and that’s it. I can buy a 10 year old i7 MacBook Pro https://everymac.com/systems/a... [everymac.com] and throw windows 10 on it and it’ll keep up with everything a 2021 laptop can do except for games, a modern rtx 3070 gpu would blow away the 2011 Radeon 6570m in that MacBook like a Ferrari racing a ant. https://gpu [userbenchmark.com]
  • Thanks but no thanks. Way to pricey.

  • I can have up to 4 SSD drives in it (I have 3 now), I upgraded the RAM to 64GB, there is a LOT of externals connectors, ...For almost the same price as the Framework DIY with specs maxed-out (and it's a 15.4", not a 13.5")

  • Laptops are currently way behind the power curve and something like Apple's ARM specialized tip combination is a clear sign of that based on performance per watt. This means almost no current laptop designs I have any real long-term value. You'll be better off just buying a new model in 3 to 5 years until the market matures enough that the rate of improvement declines a bit more. You can still buy decent laptops for about $400 so you definitely not going to beat that with a 1000 dollar repairable model th

    • Well, it is a fully upgradable laptop, so nothing prevents you from upgrading the internal motherboard in the future... as long as they release new ones, which is always the problem with these kinds of projects. What we need is standards, so that Intel, AMD, nVidia, etc can release standard parts that all upgradable laptops can use.

  • First thing, let's get the obvious stuff out of the way:
    - Expensive, intel-only CPU options? What a load of crap!
    - 2256x1504 display? Where the hell did they source that from?

    The good:
    - Expansion Cards: really cool idea, sort of bringing the concept of PC expansion cards to laptops but in modular form that any idiot can use. Since it's basically a USB-C dongle with a specific form factor for the shell, I could easily see it becoming a new standard if they made the specifications Open Hardware. Another bonus

  • Does it run Linux? The summary says it comes with Windows. What if I don't want any of my money going to Microsoft?
  • No serial ports, no parallel ports, no I2C ports, no programmable ports of any type but I can change the colour of the machine.

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