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Hardware

Razer's New Viper 8K Promises the Fastest Performance of Any Gaming Mouse (theverge.com) 59

Posted by msmash from the fwiw dept.
Razer's Viper 8K is a refresh of the 2019 true ambidextrous Viper. For the most part, it's identical and is now available at the same $79 asking price, but it has some key upgrades for competitive gamers who are hoping that tech might help them get the edge over their opponents. From a report: First off, Razer now includes the Focus Plus 20,000DPI sensor used in many of its other 2020 mice, along with the latest generation of optical switches that have a more tactile click feel, according to the company (although it didn't stand out as noticeable to me when I tested the mouse). The biggest news is that, according to Razer, the newly revised Viper can achieve the fastest polling rate of any mouse currently available: up to 8,000Hz -- far higher than the industry standard of 1,000Hz. The polling rate measures how often per second the mouse tells your computer where it's located on-screen. The more frequent the polling is, the smoother your mouse tracking can be. In the case of Razer's new Viper 8K, an 8,000Hz polling rate can deliver a whopping 8,000 pings to your PC per second, while reducing the response time of those pings from one millisecond to just an eighth of one millisecond. On paper, it seems really impressive.
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Razer's New Viper 8K Promises the Fastest Performance of Any Gaming Mouse More

Razer's New Viper 8K Promises the Fastest Performance of Any Gaming Mouse

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  • Is this the gold-plated Monster Cable version of a mouse?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ThePyro ( 645161 )

      I would think so. Polling rate beyond your FPS won't matter in most cases because games don't typically update the mouse position more than once per frame. If you're using a hardware-drawn mouse cursor along with a monitor that supports a high refresh rate then you might get a tiny boost? But even that would only matter if your game FPS couldn't match the monitor refresh rate.

      The DPI doesn't even matter than much IMO. Accuracy and consistency are far more important - but I suppose that's harder to write mar

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It looks like you need their software to make the high polling rate work. USB HID specifies the maximum polling rate in milliseconds so the lowest you can go is 1. They must be using some other USB mode and injecting mouse updates at the OS level. Windows only, presumably.

        TFA mentions that they told reviewers to test on high spec PCs and that they couldn't get it over 5000 updates per second when they tried. Seems like any benefit you would get from this would be more than offset by the extra load it puts o

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by xonen ( 774419 )

          USB HID specifies the maximum polling rate in milliseconds so the lowest you can go is 1.

          it's a bit off-topic but this 1ms polling rate is a real pain in the donkey. From real-time audio interfaces to serial ports.

          It may have been fine in the 1990's, but somehow somewhere someone forgot to have the foresight that 1ms is not small. It's ironic that a 1980's PC with soundblaster had better real-time audio capabilities (and serial port, for that matter) than a 2021 PC.

          So, i find it interesting to read that apparently with the right drivers and hardware this can be boosted to 125ns.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            It only applies to HID devices, audio and CDC devices can go lower. Audio uses isochronous transfers (guaranteed bandwidth) and I think CDC is bulk from memory.

            The main issue with CDC is crap drivers.

          • it's a bit off-topic but this 1ms polling rate is a real pain in the donkey. From real-time audio interfaces to serial ports.

            It may have been fine in the 1990's, but somehow somewhere someone forgot to have the foresight that 1ms is not small. It's ironic that a 1980's PC with soundblaster had better real-time audio capabilities (and serial port, for that matter) than a 2021 PC.

            So, i find it interesting to read that apparently with the right drivers and hardware this can be boosted to 125ns.

            For audio latency, I guess we have thunderbolt for that nowadays? They have Direct Memory Access so they should be able to make it as fast as on-board analog ports.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Armonk ( 5413686 )
              another interesting variable in all this is PS/2 vs USB PS/2 has a direct hardware interrupt to the CPU vs the polling nature of USB why oh why, are real gaming keyboards and mice NOT PS/2? USB is fine for stuff that does not need a lot of speed... consider that a USB port will often connect to a HUB that then connects to a large palette of USB devices its like the olden days of ethernet hubs before network switches were a common thing... all the devices must be polled and all the devices must listen to
          • 125us, not 125ns. For audio, that wouldn't even be relevant if you're playing music to bats...
      • Does the mouse definitely send every sample out over USB? I would have thought the point of a super-fast high-dpi sampling would be for onboard processing giving you more samples to send out a more stable position over USB at 100 hz or whatever.
      • Having a higher polling rate should help, up to a point, as USB polling and display refresh are not synchronized. Relevant experience: 250 or 500 samples/s on normally 125/s mice on ~200Hz CRT 10+ years ago. However, at 144/240Hz on modern LCDs, going over 250/500 isn't likely to help anything all that much unless you want the samples for software smoothing/motion prediction.
        • I will note that all of this is beyond accurate perception anyhow, reduced almost to "just a feeling"... but the jump from 125 to 250hz polling is definitely perceptible.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        To add to that, many of the older games, you have to slow down the mouse, else all sorts of buggy crashes can occur. You do it so often, that you end up never speeding it back up again, set it to slowest, so as to avoid some really quite bad crashes.

    • "Is this the gold-plated Monster Cable version of a mouse?"

      No, it's for hyperactive 12 year-old game-players with ADD on Adderall
      Both of them.

      • Luckily you avoided saying "humans". Because even those kids got a reaction lag that is orders of magnitude higher than this. Even if their ability to predict hides most of it.

  • I'm not a gamer, but I do use gaming mice for coding - I like the faster response and they generally have a couple of more buttons than a standard Logitech/Microsoft mouse and, being wired, I don't get the occasional RF drop outs of the typical everyday mice. I have bought Razer mice in the from recommendations from a friend. The problem I had with them was that their buttons were reliable for only 6 to 9 months in my usage (I wouldn't think they'd last a month with a gamer). I thought the issue was them using cheap mechanical buttons. So, what is the "optical switch" used here? I should point out that I probably won't consider buying Razer ever again - I spent $200 on a couple of mice that didn't last the year and I'm now using cheap gaming mice for less than $8 at Canada Computers and they're still running fine after 2+ years.

    • my experience is similar. about 10 years ago I asked a friend to help me get better at League of Legends, and one of the first things he said was ditch your mouse, you can't aim accurately because of it. I was fairly sure I couldn't aim accurately because I suck at reflex based games in general :) but I did what he said and got a Razer mouse for a little under a hundred bucks. eventually I got better at the game, certainly owing to good coaching from said friend, and I suspect changing the mouse didn't actu

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by v1 ( 525388 )

      I'm a heavy computer user and I get my wireless mice from Staples for $14, I usually wear the pads off the bottom in about a year. At that point, the scroll wheel is starting to get gummed up and they're hard to take apart to clean. So I just throw it away and get a new one.

      I see no reason to pay a fortune for something that works fine as-is, and is basically a disposable accessory.

      It's like the argument for super-high-res displays. I'm sure there's a very small percentage of the population that can actua

      • Just curious as I've moved to 4k monitors (I'm writing this on an RCA 42" TV that cost me $188 at Walmart) and couldn't be happier. In terms of pixels, I'm at 3x my previous monitors and I'm only using one monitor rather than two - I love Eclipse at this level (three code windows up/not tabs). I feel like it's the better and cheaper way to go.

      • I'm a heavy computer user and I get my wireless mice from Staples for $14, I usually wear the pads off the bottom in about a year.

        I assume you're not using a mouse pad?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by v1 ( 525388 )

          Nope my workspace is bit too limited for a mouse pad, I need the space and often have to work the mouse in s crowded spot.

          To the person with the new display - getting a new display certainly can improve things, depending on how bad you had it before. I've got a pair of displays from 2016 that I doubt I will ever need to replace until they finally die of old age. (27" thunderbolt displays, 2560x1440) Oldies but goodies. That's the other possibility of buying good - when you can get something that's goin

      • Seven years ago I bought a Razer wired mouse (Naga) for about $59. I'm still using it every day and enjoying the programmable buttons on the side and configurable DPI tracking speed.

        Had I bought a cheapie Office Depot $14 mouse ten years ago as a one-year consumable, I'd be in for $98 and would have suffered lack of features and battery recharging hassle, etc.

        I make my living pushing that mouse. It makes sense to pay a premium price for a tool that is in my hand all day long. Go to a construction site

    • I've heard this complaint about Razer mice before and of course I have no reason to doubt them, although it's difficult to tell if it makes up a representative sample.

      However I'm currently happily using the Diamondback. No, not rebooted one from 2014. The original one, from 2004. There's a slight difference in sound of left and right clicks, but in terms of physical feedback, they both feel like new. The weel is nice and notchy, but in a smooth way if that makes sense. I'm sure any new mouse is technically

      • It has the cool freewheeling option, but that means that the middle click is done with another tiny button that you have to curve your finger to press,

        Small tip: button assignment are actually programmable.
        (And if I remember correctly it's stored in hardware: once you have programmed it in one computer, the mouse should be able to remember the mapping when plugged into another).

        On Linux you can use logiops [github.com], on Windows you should have recieved something official with your mouse (a download, on some CD or whatever haven't been using that crap OS for decades).

        Thus you can assign the wheel click to middle click and that ackward button that's hard to reach can

        • After looking into it a bit more for some reason, it seem that there is a real benefit, even if it's tiny. Basically even if the game samples only once per frame, since the mouse position is updated more frequently, the position is more likely to be slightly accurate. Basically it's a bit more consistent:

          https://youtu.be/gOQNRvJbpmk?t... [youtu.be]

    • Funny thing is Amazon has their basic gaming mouse. Usually I buy Logitech which last about four years but went with a G. Wolves Skoll this time since finding a large hand mouse is harder. Most mice are made for medium/small hands with a palm grip.

      https://gaminggem.com/best-pal... [gaminggem.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ThePyro ( 645161 )
      I've had button issues with Logitech gaming mice, so the problem isn't exclusive to Razer. My last Logitech started misbehaving (RMB wouldn't stay pressed) after about 8 months. Fortunately they replaced it for free.

    • Same experience here.

      Have had 2 Razer mice, both died on the left button. Though I guess I am heavy handed as that's how my mice usually die! However with the Razer's it was within 2 months.

      I've moved onto Corsair. Seems better so far. At least on the button. I liked that on the Razer the software did not need to be loaded in order to impliment my custom dpi's and buttons. (I like a clean install now and then and it was not a priority, now I will have to be!).

      Do note though, I will (rarely) pay over £

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dremon ( 735466 )
      > but I do use gaming mice for coding

      What's wrong with coding with the keyboard? :)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kackle ( 910159 )
      With your "reputation", I'm surprised you're not fixing them! ;)

      My main ball mouse is about 20 years old. I occasionally have to fix broken wires and replace worn out switches in mice. Admittedly, they seemed to be made better, the older they are. And I don't repair (nor buy) mice that don't have screws on their bottoms.

  • Until they sell faster humans.

    Hell, this would be too fast for any industrial robots!

  • Never again Razer (Score:5, Informative)

    by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Thursday January 28, 2021 @12:51PM (#61001730)

    I bought a Razor keyboard once with the RGB LED backlit keys. It doesn't work unless the Razor applet is logged into an online user account. Will never touch another product of there's ever again.

    • For what it's worth, they must've learned their lesson. I bought one for my daughter this year for Christmas and it has no such limitation.

      Unless you mean the RGB lighting doesn't work, hers does but she cannot customize it without the synapse app.

      The funniest thing I found about her keyboard is that it uses 2x USB plugs.

      • So does my Corsair. One for the keyboard, one for the built-in USB port.

      • I bought two Razer mice ("DEATHADDER Elites") last year. They both developed sticky buttons within a few months, which is a common problem according to the forums. After getting both of them replaced, one developed the same problem again. At that point, Razer refused to do anything, instead offering to sell me the switch so I could replace it on my own.

        I will not buy another Razer product after that. Which is too bad, since when it was working, the mouse was pretty nice.

      • I'm really pleased with my Redragon Cobra M711-FPS gaming mouse with optical switches. I don't game, but for computer hardware, office class hardware for 8 hrs per day use (or less, managers don't sit at their desk all day) is greatly outclassed by gamer stuff (20 hrs a day is no exception). I also have a Redragon k580 Pro keyboard with optical switches. No driver installation on the PC required to get the fancy lights to do what you want, it can be set and turned off by keystrokes.

        • That sounds pretty awesome actually. Hadn't heard of Redragon before, will have to check them out.

          I have a Razor MMO mouse, which I think I said. But I actually use a pretty basic Rosewill mechanical keyboard, the cherry mx red one. Pretty lame on features, but does exactly what I need it to... work. =) I guess if you could call it a feature, the cable is module, just a standard USB cable, which I suppose is nice, not sure I'll ever have to replace it since I never really move the keyboard, but it's a t

  • At only $80, this looks like a refreshing alternative to the $300 mice I've been seeing.

  • A better purchase (Score:5, Funny)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Thursday January 28, 2021 @12:56PM (#61001746) Journal

    A Pet Rock purchase would be a better purchase.

    You could throw it forcefully at anyone that tries to sell you an '8000hz gaming mouse.'

    • And the rock would have a lower failure rate. Has anyone even ever heard of a Razer product that doesn't fail in the first 2 years?
  • Aside from the visuals and handfeel of the mouse, can you actually tell a difference in 'performance' between an $80+ gaming mouse vs a $10 mouse from Amazon or WalMart? Does a gaming mouse do a better job of moving folders around, or double clicking to open files? Does it move the gun around better in an FPS? Is there any actual perceptible difference?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      No, but you get to boast that you can afford to spend $80 for a mouse!

    • Does it move the gun around better in an FPS? Is there any actual perceptible difference?

      In my experience, yes it does. The cheaper mice are not as precise, which makes a difference in trigger/reaction games. (Note: I haven't bought a mouse in 5 years so the market may have changed.)

      • More controls comes in handy when programmed in some kinds of games. There's even a mouse that comes with a thumb-joystick control.

    • It comes down to durability, probably more refined ergonomics, and features. The $10 mouse probably doesn't allow variable DPI or have programmable buttons.

  • It never cease to amuse me when I hear of these super fast "mice" for your computers.

    "A whopping 8000 polls per second" is a transfer rate of 8KHz (or add 8 times to that, for 8 bit data values 0-255) which is roughly 64KHz speed to transfer that amount of polling inkl. 8-bit data to the computer, oh whoop dee doo - what amazing tech (sarcasm might have been applied here).

    We have WiFi cards that transfer gigabits today, 64KHz is a drop in the ocean, and absolutely zero to brag about, just pure marketing blu

  • The last FPS I played was around 3 years ago, and then casually at best. Any hardcore FPS slashdotters: does this really make a difference? If so, how and why?

  • Hmm .. it can probably be used as a seismometer. It'll probably do that even if it's not stuck on a pole in the ground.

  • Does Razer still require online registration to use their hardware product? If yes, they still don't exist for me.

  • Never trust an article that doesn't know what a mouse does.

    The polling rate measures how often per second the mouse tells your computer where it’s located on-screen.

    The mouse doesn't know anything about the pointer on the screen, or if there's a pointer on the screen at all. It could be controlling the paddle in a game of Breakout or doing something else. All the mouse is doing is transferring data about motion and the clicking of buttons to the computer so that it may interpret them.

  • ...except my shitty mouse was only 19000 dpi.

    Fucking trash.

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