Raspberry Pi Foundation Launches $4 Microcontroller With Custom Chip (techcrunch.com) 145
Meet the Raspberry Pi Pico, a tiny little microcontroller that lets you build hardware projects with some code running on the microcontroller. Even more interesting, the Raspberry Pi Foundation is using its own RP2040 chip, which means that the foundation is now making its own silicon. From a report: If you're not familiar with microcontrollers, those devices let you control other parts or other devices. You might think that you can already do this kind of stuff with a regular Raspberry Pi. But microcontrollers are specifically designed to interact with other things. They're cheap, they're small and they draw very little power. You can start developing your project with a breadboard to avoid soldering. You can pair it with a small battery and it can run for weeks or even months. Unlike computers, microcontrollers don't run traditional operating systems. Your code runs directly on the chip.
Like other microcontrollers, the Raspberry Pi Pico has dozens of input and output pins on the sides of the device. Those pins are important as they act as the interface with other components. For instance, you can make your microcontroller interact with an LED light, get data from various sensors, show some information on a display, etc. The Raspberry Pi Pico uses the RP2040 chip. It has a dual-core Arm processor (running at 133MHz), 264KB of RAM, 26 GPIO pins including 3 analog inputs, a micro-USB port and a temperature sensor. It doesn't come with Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. And it costs $4.
Like other microcontrollers, the Raspberry Pi Pico has dozens of input and output pins on the sides of the device. Those pins are important as they act as the interface with other components. For instance, you can make your microcontroller interact with an LED light, get data from various sensors, show some information on a display, etc. The Raspberry Pi Pico uses the RP2040 chip. It has a dual-core Arm processor (running at 133MHz), 264KB of RAM, 26 GPIO pins including 3 analog inputs, a micro-USB port and a temperature sensor. It doesn't come with Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. And it costs $4.
Wow! (Score:2)
And this competes with an esp32/wroom32 module how exactly?
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An ESP32 is under $4 [aliexpress.com] for a complete development board, shipped.
The CPU sounds a bit weaker with way less memory, and no WiFi/BT of course. The latter isn't necessary for all projects but made a huge difference in practice to the kind of things you can do. You can control things remotely without having to add a screen and buttons to everything, and even reflash it through an OTA update. The documentation and behavior is sometimes a bit sketchy but generally I haven't had any major issues.
It's big upgrade ove
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Exactly. And the next ESP32 is rumoured to have a RISC-V on board in place of the Tensilica.
Missing comment (Score:3)
Re: Missing comment (Score:2, Informative)
> no wireless
Good. >:-[
It's a microcontroller. Not a CPU.
The wireless chip *itself* is a microcontroller.
It isn't the format with the resources to keep standard wireless tech even remotely secure.
But WHY? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But WHY? (Score:4, Interesting)
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"this is a good use of their talents"
Is it though? Because they could apply their same "talents" while using off-the-shelf hardware that is superior to this. Producing an inferior board is not a good use of their ability to put boards in the hands of 10-12 year old students, and those students would be better served by better hardware than this. For the same money, those students could have twice the processor power, twice the memory plus BT and WiFi if only those talents were applied to an existing MCU
why not just make the pi zero cheaper (Score:2)
like what is the point of differentiating between a microcontroller and the pi zero w. for students who are just writing micropython or stripped down C it makes no difference what chips are on the board.
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The RaPi foundation is a Broadcom offspring, not in the legal sense but in a practical "how do they do it" sense. Eben Upton, the foundation's CEO, is a technical director and ASIC architect for Broadcom. Can you point out a Broadcom microcontroller that fits the bill? No? That's why they had to make one.
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Then they killed Broadcom's legal dept and executive suite so they could actually release detailed documentation as a free download?
Re:But WHY? (Score:5, Informative)
They bring a few things to the table.
The MCU itself has some nice features like the programmable I/O. Some other MCUs have something similar but this seems more advanced and useful.
It's also cheap, and because they know they will get volume production they can offer more performance for the money. As you say there are a lot of Arduino clones, which means they all have lower volume and worse price/performance ratio.
They also bring community and dev tools. Most other ARM platforms are a mixture of crappy code libraries and proprietary, non-free IDEs with little support if you don't use them.
Arduino has community but has kind of reached the limits of what the platform can really do, due to be highly simplified. It looks like they have made a lot more power available with the new RPi MCU, and unlike the usual badly supported and bug ridden libraries that come with most ARM MCUs there is a decent chance that theirs will be more like the half decent ones for the larger RPis.
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I'll +1 on this comment
"They also bring community and dev tools. Most other ARM platforms are a mixture of crappy code libraries and proprietary, non-free IDEs with little support if you don't use them."
In the past when trying to do some hobby projects around microcontrollers, I found it super frustrating to use the tools available from Texas Instruments, etc. I would have gladly paid more for a chip/platform with a more coherent, less buggy. And mind you the boards I got were the 'educational/demo boards
Re: But WHY? (Score:2)
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I found the ST libraries to be buggy and incomplete. Ended up using them very little.
STM32 Cube MX is good but proprietary. Trying to get you to use an app to select parts is really annoying.
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You seem to be comparing it to Arduino which is not really similar. But a few counter points:
- Programmable I/O is common on many ARM based MCUs and was even common on some 8bit MCUs.
- $4 is not cheap for an MCU. It's cheap for a development board, but if your end goal is not to have something huge in your design then it's on the expensive side of many 32bit ARM MCUs.
- They bring precisely zero community. This is not a raspberry pi and not compatible with any raspberry pi products on the market and won't sh
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Have you looked at the programmable IO? It's a lot more powerful than stuff like the configurable logic in Atmel/Microchip parts, for example.
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Watch out for the Adafruit version with the RP2040 chip, coming soon.
https://www.adafruit.com/produ... [adafruit.com]
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ST Blue Pills have a Cortex M4 on board and they are so cheap, even in the EU, that you cannot buy them in less than packs of 5. However, you need an external FTDI programmer to program them, which is a hassle.
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Whereas you can literally drag and drop a file onto a USB drive that shows up when you plug this Pi MCU into a PC in order to program it. No special programming software needed.
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Bingo
Not good (Score:2)
ESP-32 is cheaper and superior in any way. Includes WiFI.
No need for this device. Only the advantage is the name
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ESP-32 is about twice the $4 price.
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Re:Not good (Score:5, Informative)
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that $2.99 price just for the ESP32 MCU not an MCU and a board to run it on like the Raspberry Pi Pico?
Once the RP2040 is for sale individually like the ESP32 is its price could be cheaper than $2.99.
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Here's where it's not superior: I have no idea how to use one of these things at all. I've never worked with one, I don't know what I need or how to program it. I AM interested—I've been thinking of how to make a small device that I can put in my building's laundry room to measure if the machines are running so I know when I can go down and put my stuff in, or when the cycle has finished—but this is well out of my area of knowledge. I can follow any of the numerous links to AliExpress and pay so
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The problem is the RPi Si does not include any wireless capability. No bluetooth, no wifi. For that you'd need to add an ESP8266 or ESP32, or similar. The ESP32 has wifi and bluetooth out of the box.
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Sure, great. I still have no idea how to use it or build anything with it. I get that the the ESP boards appear to be more capable, but I'm not anyone that can take advantage of that yet.
Raspberry Pi isn't trying to make the most capable devices, they're trying to make it possible for everyone to buy and use them, and I greatly suspect that their entry into this space will lift all boats, because as some point, I might need something with WiFi or Bluetooth, and I'll have learned enough to be able to use the
Silly (Score:3)
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It's actually pretty cool
I mean it is when you compare to an overpriced Arduino with it's own development framework. Less so when you compare it to other actual 32bit microcontrollers on the market.
It's not bad by any measure. But it sure as hell isn't unique, and in many cases depending on your needs could easily be outclassed by another product.
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It's a flat microcontroller on a dev board. People aren't shitting on this, they are just fast to not hype it. There are plenty of alternatives to Arduino, including alternatives to arduino based on ARM that even support Arduino. Arduino isn't limited to 8bit AVRs. It runs on ESPs, on Cortex M0+ (I have zero doubt Arduino will be ported to this chip as well), STM32s, all manner of microcontrollers. They are all available in various devboards online from ebay for the price of a cup of coffee.
The world is you
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It's a flat microcontroller on a dev board
Sure, technically you're correct, but it does have unique features. The PIO is what intrigues me the most. I work with WS2812 a lot, being able to offload the protocol work to microcode on the GPIO and let the CPU do other things is very intriguing, and unique to this new uC as far as I can tell.
The "shitters" did read it and weren't impressed
Most of the negative comments on here are something to the effect of OP: You can already get cheap AVR boards or use an ESP32, acting like those two "families" are the end-all-be-all for tinkerers. Yes, I have ac
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In what way does it have poor documentation?
It's got an over 638 page datasheet for the RP2040 MCU linked on their website: https://datasheets.raspberrypi... [raspberrypi.org]
It's got a 28 page brief describing the dev board: https://datasheets.raspberrypi... [raspberrypi.org]
They include schematics and spreadsheets describing all 28 parts included on the dev board: https://datasheets.raspberrypi... [raspberrypi.org]
They include frittzing files for creating your own PCB as well: https://datasheets.raspberrypi... [raspberrypi.org]
They also wrote a book for beginners called Get S
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They both can be programmed with the Arduino IDE but the ESP32 is vastly more powerful for a negligible amount more money.
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ESP32 != Atmel 328
The Nano 3 that was mentioned is most definitely a 328, but yes the ESP definitely is not.
They both can be programmed with the Arduino IDE but the ESP32 is vastly more powerful for a negligible amount more money.
Yes, well aware. I'm not trying to bash the ESP, I've used quite a few of them in my projects, they are good products. Hard to believe that they can pack so much into these things at the price point they do. I'd swear by the reactions I've gotten on here, suggesting that I like this new Pi, that I'd called someone's baby ugly. Sheesh.
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Depends on the tradition. (Score:3)
Unlike computers, microcontrollers don't run traditional operating systems. Your code runs directly on the chip.
Sure they do. They're just from an older tradition. B-)
It has a dual-core Arm processor (running at 133MHz), 264KB of RAM, 26 GPIO pins including 3 analog inputs, a micro-USB port and a temperature sensor. It doesn't come with Wi-Fi or Bluetooth.
Why not use an off-the-shelf IoT chip? Like from Nordic, to name ust one. You'd get all that (don't have the GPIO count handy but it's comparable) plus radio networking, several onboard peripherals and support for several peripheral bus standards - and several instances of them.
And it costs $4
Maybe they couldn't get it cheap enough?
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Oh, yes. And the open-source Zephyr RTOS runs on the Nordic chips - complete with a Bluetooth radio stack written by Nordic.
Re:Depends on the tradition. (Score:5, Informative)
Why not use an off-the-shelf IoT chip? Like from Nordic, to name ust one.
Well, I was thinking, this thing has a dual core 133MHz ARM chip which is much more powerful, the good Nordics often have a single core cortex M4 at 64MHz (with FPU!)...
but then I got thinking, wait what. What on earth do you need with all that power? Frankly the Nordic one I used was way overpowered compared to the 8051 it replaced which in turn had tons of headroom for the BLE controller job it was doing for me.
OTHO having a separate core means some interesting things if you need some seriously precision timing. You can do all the timing related stuff on one core, and all the IO stuff (i.e. the USB port) on the other one with very very low jitter.
It is a lot of power though.
That said I think it's reasonable. It's not just a chip, it's a ready to go board. And RPi has, frankly, a good name. It means you'll be able buy these reliably from a wide variety of vendors both local and remote, the parts will stay available for years and there will be no questions over provenance and counterfeiting. Sure there are other things which are cheaper/faster/more capable, but if they do what you need and you're not super price sensitive, then a large, well respected brand with a good reputation takes all the excitement out of sourcing.
28 page datasheet.... (Score:2)
Just for comparison to the 28 page datasheet published for this ARM controller the Atmel SAM D21 (ARM Cortex M0+) datasheet is 1111 pages. Why do I get the feeling I'd be hunting across half the internet looking for documentation on this Pi product.
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Raspberry Pi's website has a link to the RP2040 MCU datasheet. It's 636 pages long: https://datasheets.raspberrypi... [raspberrypi.org]
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That makes far more sense.
Analog I/O resolution? (Score:2)
And why don't they have more than 3 analog I/0 pins. That is really quickly not enough anymore.
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It's described on page 570 of the RP2040 datasheet: https://datasheets.raspberrypi... [raspberrypi.org]
500,000 samples per second using an independent 48Mhz clock
Wrong advantage over the pi given (Score:2)
"But microcontrollers are specifically designed to interact with other things."
The pi was " specifically designed to interact with other things. "
That's what it's GPIO pins are for.
The pico's advantage over the pi is price.
Great work techcrunch.
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Pi Zero = 5$USD
Pi Pico = 4$USD
Okay it's 20% lower, but still.
This is something new (Score:5, Insightful)
The RP2040 does things that an STM32 or ESP can't. The big feature for me is the programmable state machine on each IO pin. It allows deterministic timing for custom protocols. You can implement WS2812, DVI or whatever new serial protocol comes along without loading down the main processor. It could also be used for motor control or a SMPS driver that requires tight timings and fast updates. There are other microcontrollers that do this like the PSoC or Propeller 2 but they are more than double the price.
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So... we're going to see the RP2040 being used as stepper motor controllers?
Dual-core ARM CPUs with 2MB built-in flash memory that only cost 4$USD being used to control motors. What a time to be alive!
They didn't cheap out (Score:3)
With 2M of flash and countless peripherals its a really good processor.
It has ~5 each of UART, I2C and SPI ports. This is probably one of the best well 'peripheraled' M0 processor on the market.
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This 2MB of on-board flash also puts the Pico in direct competition with something like an Arduino.
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I know that complaining about slashvertisement is a time-honored tradition here, but this is important. It's a potential game changer for anybody who does electronics projects. The big deal being the price point - at $4, it's a fraction of the price of Arduinos or most other boards with similar capabilities. You could easily buy multiple of these and build an affordable, modular robotic arm with a dedicated controller in each joint, for instance. There will be a lot of things like that that would have been
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If fairness though you wouldn't put an audio in each joint. You could put an atmel mcu in though, but really no need to have the whole board. You can even use an arduino as a programmer for the bare chips.
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Yes but the BluePill is not programmable with USB, you need an external FTDI programme which is a bit of a hassle.
On the other hand, they are so cheap you can't buy them alone, only in packs of 5 otherwise the packaging and postage makes it not worth it.
Re:When did slashdot start allowing full article a (Score:4, Informative)
The big deal being the price point - at $4, it's a fraction of the price of Arduinos or most other boards with similar capabilities.
It's a bit higher spec than the stm32 based blue pill boards, but then it's twice the price. They have been available for years at about $2 so the price of this isn't revolutionary.
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Big advantage of the blue pill is that there's a development path to using your own STM32 chips and putting them on a custom PCB.
Re: When did slashdot start allowing full article (Score:3)
Re: When did slashdot start allowing full article (Score:5, Informative)
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Sure, if you want something from rando Amazon company with nonexistent support or documentation. Raspberry Pi's have done so well (similarly to Arduino) because of their community, documentation, and ecosystem. I can find a Pi at dozens of places, and find extensive documentation for anything I might want to do anywhere on the internet.
Having a $4 Raspberry Pi certainly is a game changer. The zero at $10 has allowed me to do a lot of things I never would have done otherwise because at $10 a lot of things be
Re: When did slashdot start allowing full article (Score:5, Informative)
Having a $4 Raspberry Pi certainly is a game changer. The zero at $10 has allowed me to do a lot of things I never would have done otherwise because at $10 a lot of things become worth doing that aren't attractive at $40. Same principle will apply here.
It's not a $4 Raspberry Pi. That would be the Zero (non-wireless), at $5 [adafruit.com]. This is comparable to a $4 ARM-based Arduino, of which many exist for about a buck more. This might turn out to be a great, cheap board, but there are already great, cheap boards. I like the ESP32 boards, which can be had for about $5 and include wifi and bluetooth.
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to be fair, you can get esp-32 dev boards for pretty cheap as well, and they are also dual core but loaded with far more features.
pololu and adafruit and sparkfun and... (Score:2)
other vendors already sell things like this for a comparable price. its just nonsense.
raspberry pi should have focused on churning out more W for lower price instead of this.
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Yes, and the vast majority of those are going to go the way of PCDuino, Intel Edison, and a ton of other failed ventures.
The Pi foundation actually puts things out with prices, scale, and support that allows a community to spring up overnight to support it. That's the key difference here. That's also the difference between, for instance, Python or C++ and whatever new language-of-the-week pops up to be the next best thing. Community is perhaps the most important factor in the success of a new electronics pl
Re: When did slashdot start allowing full article (Score:2)
"at $4, it's a fraction of the price of Arduinos or most other boards with similar capabilities."
Arduino nano copies are under $4 on eBay.
How now?
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I tend to prefer boards from reputable manufacturers - I'm not above getting some cheapo no-name boards off of ebay or Amazon here and there, but would much rather support the companies that are actually doing the engineering work (and presumably at least a bit of QA) to put the designs out there in the first place. After all, when prices are this low, debugging a shoddy board is not time well spent... better to just spend the extra dollar to get one from a decent seller and manufacturer, no?
relevant (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Rpi enjoys substantial uptake within K-12 and this provides additional Rpi foundation-supported hardware around which curriculum content can be developed.
2. I see thousands of examples where a project could have been done with a microcontroller, but was overkilled with an Rpi or equivalent due to assumed ignorance. Rpi is acknowledging this tendency and volunteering to provide a solution in their catalog to get in front of the eyes of creators.
3. Rpi vs. Arduino-- FIGHT!
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An ad for a decent non profit? I don't know why you wouldn't support that.
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this is a microcontroller something lots of nerds care about.
Yes, and to the parents point, plenty of nerds know exactly what a microcontroller does, and don't need a 101 explanation.
Some useful examples beyond bragging about the obscenely low price point would be nice. I'm still left wondering what I would waste $4 on, other than this post.
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$4 for the microcontroller board is reasonable, depending on temperature range. It would be nice if one could buy the chip alone, but from a quick look it does not look available yet -- the link to Digikey 404s, PiShop.us only has the board, and SparkFun has a few boards but no separate chips.
The one really interesting part of the microcontroller is the design of the PIO engines that drive (some of?) the GPIO ports. These are almost micro-coded cores that are heavily optimized for offloading I/O control.
Re:When did slashdot start allowing full article a (Score:5, Informative)
The link goes here: "https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers"
I don't know what that is because my browser blocked it but it looks/smells bad.
Here's a much better one: https://www.raspberrypi.org/pr... [raspberrypi.org]
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its also a vast diversion from the raspbi foundation original mission statement.
we still cant buy raspberry pi zerow as the retailers still say 'limit one per customer' meanwhile they are churning out this raspberry pi computer whatsit and this microcontroller which has already been done better by other vendors.
so the argument that its just an ad that needs some honest review is kind of a good one.
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this is a microcontroller something lots of nerds care about.
There are hundreds of microcontrollers, so one more isn't newsworthy. What makes this one special or different?
An Arduino Nano is cheaper and uses less power.
Re:Strange device (Score:4, Insightful)
Because they can. Because customizable IO. Because 133Mhz clock. Because raspberry has a large community. Because open silicon is the only way forward out of the blob driver hell that haunted the other raspberries.
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133 MHz clock is still slow because it's using a serial external flash. It also has no FPU inside, so floating point will be very slow as well.
Raspberry has a big community, but this is a totally different product, so that doesn't explain the particular choices they made for this project.
Silicon isn't any more open to the user than any other microcontroller.
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You have no idea what a microcontroller is or why speed isn’t important.
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Sometimes speed is important, sometimes it's not.
133 MHz is a decent clock for an M0+ based microcontroller, but the serial flash cripples it. External flash is also annoying when you want to create a custom design based on the same chip (assuming that they will be sold bare)
Re: Strange device (Score:2)
Re: Strange device (Score:4, Informative)
External Flash is accessed via the QSPI interface using the execute-in-place (XIP) hardware. This allows an external flash memory to be addressed and accessed by the system as though it were internal memory. Bus reads to a 16MB memory window starting at 0x10000000 are translated into a serial flash transfer, and the result is returned to the master that initiated the read. This process is transparent to the master, so a processor can execute code from the external flash without first copying the code to internal memory, hence execute in place". An internal cache remembers the contents of recently-accessed flash locations, which accelerates the average bandwidth and latency of the interface.
Re: Strange device (Score:5, Informative)
We built a custom chip with similar specs that did XIP from a SPI Flash. With a small instruction cache, we benchmarked it at roughly 80% of the speed of code running from internal RAM. We felt that was an excellent tradeoff.
For those who've never been involved in a chip design, putting FLASH in a chip sounds like a no-brainer - but it adds (IIRC) about 30% to the cost of a chip - in the 55 nm process we were using, it was something like 25 masks for non-flash, and 34 for Flash. Each additional mask was an additional processing step that the Fab had to go through, and each step adds to the cost of the wafer. Putting in enough RAM to load code in costs money, as it increases die size, but the tradeoff is often worthwhile.
You're also dealing with the economics of the SPI Flash market - there are dozens of companies competing on price and performance for pin-compatible 8-pin SPI Flash parts, using FLASH optimized fab processes, so the parts are CHEAP in quantity. You can also customize the amount of FLASH you attach easily, without having to re-spin silicon - if a customer need drives a need for twice as much flash, you simply put in a SPI Flash that's twice as big. As long as you aren't up against the performance limits of 80% of 133MHz, it's great.
Re: Strange device (Score:2)
To nitpick: each mask implies a number of lithographic steps plus the actual processing of the level the wafer is at. So at one point the wafer may get a full layer of something, let's say by lpcvd (low pressure chemical vapour deposition), then a lithographic coating, exposure through the mask (or reticle, more likely) you mentioned, then the developing step, then an etching
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I doubt it. There's a lot of documentation on the thing and Broadcomm would rather be waterboarded for eternity than hand over any of that without 5 NDAs and your little finger in exchange.
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You wouldn't directly execute from the external flash. The CPU can't fetch directly from SPI. You'd write a bootloader that copies code from flash into RAM and runs from there.
I didn't read the entire datasheet, but from the diagram, the chip does support XIP ("eXecute In Place") to run from internal flash. It's a dedicated QSPI interface, and 16kB of cache RAM in the XIP controller. That's actually a lot of code space, so in practice I'd expect most ISRs to remain in cache and execute with no penalty, and tight loops (the kind of thing you really want to run fast) would also mostly execute from internal full-speed RAM.
There would be a latency penalty to start executing "new" c
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Because they can. Because customizable IO. Because 133Mhz clock. Because raspberry has a large community. Because open silicon is the only way forward out of the blob driver hell that haunted the other raspberries.
Err basically most M0+ have customizable IOs. Clock speeds are available in many variations, just go buy one. The Raspberry pi community is utterly irrelevant for a product that is completely incompatible and fundamentally different to raspberry pis.
I welcome another entrant in the market. But there's nothing amazing or unique about this product, not even its price point.
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it costs $4 because it's a fully assembled board.
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is the raspbi foundation for students or... (Score:2)
people who know what all those acronyms you just used actually mean....
it might be a great product for some people but the raspbi foundation was not intended to make niche microcontrollers for professionals. it was supposed to be simple educational product for noobs
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Re: First and last microcontroller? (Score:2)
> Wifi/BT
Sup dawg, I herd u like microcontrollers! So we put a microcontroller on your microcontroller's bus to you can be hacked while you're hacked!