NVIDIA Launches GeForce RTX 3060 Ti, Sets a New Gaming Performance Bar At $399 (hothardware.com) 70
MojoKid writes: NVIDIA expanded its line-up of Ampere-based graphics cards today with a new lower cost GeForce RTX 3060 Ti. As its name suggests, the new $399 NVIDIA GPU supplants the previous-gen GeForce RTX 2060 / RTX 2060 Super, and slots in just behind the recently-released GeForce RTX 3070. The GeForce RTX 3060 Ti features 128 CUDA cores per SM, for a total of 4,864, 4 Third-Gen Tensor cores per SM (152 total), and 38 Second-Gen RT cores. The GPU has a typical boost clock of 1,665MHz and it is linked to 8GB of standard GDDR6 memory (not the GDDR6X of the RTX 3080/3090) via a 256-bit memory interface that offers up to 448GB/s of peak bandwidth. In terms of overall performance, the RTX 3060 Ti lands in the neighborhood of the GeForce RTX 2080 Super, and well ahead of cards like AMD's Radeon RX 5700 XT. The GeForce RTX 3060 Ti's 8GB frame buffer may give some users pause, but for 1080p and 1440p gaming, it shouldn't be a problem for the overwhelming majority of titles. It's also par for the course in this $399 price band. Cards are reported to be shipping in retail tomorrow.
...and good luck buying one (Score:5, Interesting)
That's great but good luck buying one in the next 6 months that doesn't have its priced jacked up by a reseller. Nvidia still hasn't come anywhere close to keeping their 3080 and 3090 cards in stock anywhere after 2 and a half months so I don't know what they're even doing releasing new cards.
buy an tuck load and sell them for face + $200 (Score:1)
buy an tuck load and sell them for face + $200
Probably easier to get (Score:2)
Because these new cards are cheaper, they probably manufactured way more of these than the high end cards.
I'm sure supply will be short as first, but probably not for two months like the 3080...
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I've never seen anything anywhere to suggest that such similar video cards would take significantly different times to make. I'll freely admit my knowledge of such things is limited though.
Also, that's two months and counting on the 3080 and 3090 mass out of stocks. My money is on it being 6 months out before your average consumer will be able to just casually go online and buy one on a whim.
Not time, parts and cost (Score:1)
I've never seen anything anywhere to suggest that such similar video cards would take significantly different times to make.
It's not about the time to make (although a significantly more advanced card might well take a bit longer to assemble).
It's much more about part cost and availability. with the lower end card using less memory and probably slower memory (have not looked at the specs) it should be easier to get components for the cheaper cards, and additionally requires a lot less capital outlay to acq
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I haven't heard anything about part shortages slowing production. You could be right though, we're really both just speculating here.
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I haven't heard anything about part shortages slowing production.
So you think it's just the assembly that's the problem? Whether it's Sony's PS5, Microsoft's XBox Series X, Nvidia's 30 series or AMD's 6000 series there have been shortages across the board for manufacturing all of the components that go into these products.
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No, i just think that the 3060ti is similiar enough to the 3080 that I really doubt there's some how an abundance of 3060ti parts and a massive shortage of 3080 parts. Furthermore, for any parts that are different between the cards that Nvidia has to source out to get Nvidia is just further impacting their suppliers by creating new demand for this different part, thereby indirectly slowing down 3080 production by means of exacerbating any part supply shortages that do exist.
For instance, the two cards use d
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No, i just think that the 3060ti is similiar enough to the 3080 that I really doubt there's some how an abundance of 3060ti parts and a massive shortage of 3080 parts.
I wouldn't say there's an 'abundance' of 3060 parts but they have less cores across the board (CUDA, RT, Tensor) so the yields would be significantly higher than the 3080/3090 chips.
For instance, the two cards use different RAM. If their RAM supplier (assuming they source out for this) isn't already keeping up with demand for the 3080's RAM having to make RAM for the 3060ti is only going to slow them down more.
That's assuming they're using the same supplier and that the supplier is using the same process for all of it, which seems unlikely since you always find AIBs using different components.
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I wouldn't say there's an 'abundance' of 3060 parts but they have less cores across the board (CUDA, RT, Tensor) so the yields would be significantly higher than the 3080/3090 chips.
Boy, I'm going to need some hard facts before I'll buy that. I'm not trying to be rude here but the less cores thing doesnt seem to me to be so dramatic as you seem to be suggesting. I certainly don't see it impacting raw manufacturing by any major degree.
That's assuming they're using the same supplier and that the supplier is using the same process for all of it, which seems unlikely since you always find AIBs using different components.
Unlikely? Why on earth would that be unlikely? Why would they go with a different supplier given proper business practices of establishing their current one as the best in terms of cost versus value for their needs? Would a minor step down in the power of
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Boy, I'm going to need some hard facts before I'll buy that.
The realities of fabricating microchips isn't enough for you? Binning of low-yield nodes is industry standard practise and while Samsung reached that process before TSMC their yields were very low - as been discussed quite a lot. How/why do they come out with these lower tier, lower cost parts? Binning. Thats why this midrange starts to fill out much better once the yield numbers have been established, they start to know what quality they're getting and what they can package into a midrange product.
Unlikely? Why on earth would that be unlikely?
Well the
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Yeah, all the rumors are pointing to nvidia/samsung being unable to deliver enough chips. The 3060ti is probably less than half the die area of a 3090/3080 though which means more chips per wafer, and more of them being good.
Of course if we're to believe nvidia, the supply problem is simply that they didn't expect these to sell many units (maybe because last gen was priced nearly 2x what it should be). Expected sales for a $400 card is always going to be higher than a $1500 card, but it's still hard to sw
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"4th tier" is still well in excess of 60fps in almost every modern game on ultra quality settings at 1080p, by far the most popular resolution on the market.
I.e. "why nvidia decided to start implementing ray tracing". We're now in realm of "fast enough for ultra" for pretty much everything on formerly mid end cards. It's why 1060 remains the most popular card on steam, being at about the same amount installed as total amount of RTX capable cards combined.
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Most of the lower end chips are just higher end chips that can't operate at the highest clock rate, or have parts that don't work. This is especially true of GPUs, which are relatively large chips, but are composed of many independent processing units.
Re: Probably easier to get (Score:2)
What makes you think that NVidia made more 3060 cards because they are cheaper? Right now NVidia could make huge amounts of profit from their higher end cards if they could manufacture them. The main constraint appears to be making enough GPU chip themselves with maybe GDDR6X as another bottleneck.
Some cheaper GPUs are binned from higher end chips that didnâ(TM)t pass certain tests. From what I know 3060 are not binned 3090/3080. They might be binned 3070s or even their own line.
Cost != profit (Score:1)
What makes you think that NVidia made more 3060 cards because they are cheaper?
Because pretty much every company on the planet manufactures a lot more of the cheaper option than the more expensive one.
Right now NVidia could make huge amounts of profit from their higher end cards
I would bet the profit *margin* on the cheaper cards is greater.
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I actually really doubt Nvidia makes anywhere near as much on the cheap cards as the expensive ones. There's no way the manufacturing processes for these two cards with such similiar specs is anywhere near $300 different (MSRP on the 3080 is $699). Nvidia and other companies only make these models because if they don't make the limited profits off these lower tier categories some one else will.
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There's no way the manufacturing processes for these two cards with such similiar specs is anywhere near $300 different
It's all about component costs, not process.
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Have you looked at the specs of these two cards? They are not that different. I would need to see some real data before I would ever believe a 3060ti costs substantially (in the range of several hundred dollars) more than a 3080 to make.
Extremely different (Score:1)
Have you looked at the specs of these two cards? They are not that different.
They are massively different.
3080 has nearly twice the CUDA cores, which is probably a large part of the cost alone.
Also the 3080 is clocked faster.
ALSO the 3080 has 10 GB GDDR6X RAM compared to 8 GB GDDR6 for the 3060... which by the way means the 3080 has a 320-bit bus all of the other components on the card have to handle, vs. the 256 interface width of the 3060.
It's like spewing out a decent gaming system vs. a top of the line
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Er, sorry.
"I would need to see some real data before I would ever believe a 3060ti costs substantially (in the range of several hundred dollars) more than a 3080 to make."
=
I would need to see some real data before I would ever believe a 3080 costs substantially (in the range of several hundred dollars) more than a 3060ti to make.
Typo and I didnt proof read.
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Because pretty much every company on the planet manufactures a lot more of the cheaper option than the more expensive one.
What?! Again what makes you think that applies to this specific situation? You do understand that these are supply constrained parts right? Right now both NVidia and AMD are struggling to make enough of any chip. NVidia because they are using Samsung who has lower volume than TSMC and AMD because they have to split their volume among CPUs, GPUs, and consoles.
I would bet the profit *margin* on the cheaper cards is greater.
What?! You understand that a 3090 sells for $1499 MSRP while a 3060 Ti sells for $399. Is math not your strong suit?
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Depends.
Part of the problem is cryptocurrencies have caused a rush on high end cards - to the point where you get a 10 month ROI on a 3090, and probably similar with a 3080. If the fact the 3060 is cheaper by 80% (3090 was $2000) means you can run more of them it might end up the top pick of miners because you can get 3060s for 1 3090 and if it lets you get the money back in under 10 months, it'll be very appealing.
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so I don't know what they're even doing releasing new cards.
Your UID is too low not to understand how microprocessor production works. Low end cards can be made from failed high end silicon through binning. They can also be made on equipment not precise enough to make high end silicon with acceptable defect rates.
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Since he decided to be a rude dick I would imagine...
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Yes. Welcome to the club.
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Your UID is too low not to understand how microprocessor production works. Low end cards can be made from failed high end silicon through binning.
Sure, but is the binning rate of processors high enough to make a whole new line of video cards off of? Especially given the fact that the 3070 is likely already using up a lot of these?
They can also be made on equipment not precise enough to make high end silicon with acceptable defect rates.
These are not massively different processors we're talking about here. I doubt the manufacturing processes is that different between the two.
After that, there is more to a video card than the processor but maybe with your high UID means you arent old enough to understand that (nice slight btw, I bet you're a pleasure to talk
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Sure, but is the binning rate of processors high enough to make a whole new line of video cards off of?
Why wouldn't it. Statistically speaking the fastest cards are the hardest to produce.
These are not massively different processors we're talking about here. I doubt the manufacturing processes is that different between the two.
I didn't say they were different. I said different equipment which affects defects and binning. It's quite common to have similar designs rolls off a production line where one line statistically bins far higher.
Nice (Score:2)
The GeForce RTX 3060 Ti features 128 CUDA cores per SM
Good god, no wonder Seti@Home closed up shop. I remember my first CUDA board...doubling my total work units for six years in under 3 weeks.
Might as well have saved elecricity then everyone started last year.
Fix supply chains first. (Score:1)
They have released the 3070, 3080, and 3090 and no one can get a hold of them. Why in the hell are they making 3060's when they cant meet demand for the cards they have already released. Its just bad business.
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Same thing with AMD's 6000 series. One imagines that it will eventually occur to these 'fabless' chip makers that actually being able to meet demand would be a huge competitive advantage.
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>One imagines that it will eventually occur to these 'fabless' chip makers
Fabless is the problem. Being fabless means you are in a queue behind Apple, Qualcomm and others.
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Well Intel isn't doing that hot either, but on the other hand it is entirely within their power to fix their shit
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Well Intel isn't doing that hot either, but on the other hand it is entirely within their power to fix their shit
Intel should just license TSMC's 5nm at whatever price they want and then just carry on.
I know... They would never do that.
Re: Fix supply chains first. (Score:2)
My guess with Intel treated everyone else in the past, is that TSMC's price is gonna be: $fuck-off-and-die ... dollars. ;)
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One of Intels multiple problems is that there aint ever gonna be a deal on a cross licensing deal with TSMC.
When they fell behind on x86 with the P4 and then were a no show for x64, AMD still had their own fabs and some process IP was part of the cross licensing that benefited both sides.
There is no mutual benefit this time except perhaps if Intel throws their instruction set on the table, but that would only hasten their demise and its literally their mo
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Re: Fix supply chains first. (Score:2)
Counterpoint: Intel isnâ(TM)t fabless yet they are struggling to manufacture chips.
The problem with NVidia is not they were in a queue at TSMC. Their problem was they tried to play games with the queue. They tried to pit TSMC against Samsung in a bidding war to which TSMC opted out as TSMC has plenty of 7nm customers. By the time, NVidia realized that Samsung may not be the most ideal supplier, they were put at the back of the queue.
Also Apple is at the head of the queue because they pay. Apple just an
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How's that working out for Intel these days?
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How's that working out for Intel these days?
Swan is selling out to TSMC et al. as well. They've been floating that trial balloon for six months now and they'll probably make it official in January. Finance guy wants to employ fewer engineers! News at 11.
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They have released the 3070, 3080, and 3090 and no one can get a hold of them. Why in the hell are they making 3060's when they cant meet demand for the cards they have already released. Its just bad business.
Not necessarily. One common way to produce such products is to make of use of chips that aren't good enough... they either can't handle the speed, or some parts of the chip have defects. Make a new product with lower specs, and you can now sell those chips you'd otherwise have to dispose of.
Re: Fix supply chains first. (Score:2)
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This is called "binning".
Do you think Intel has separate silicon designs for i7, i9, i5, i3, and Pentiums? They just print all on the same silicon, and sell the best ones up to the spec as i9, going down from there all the way back to Pentium (one core missing = dual core i5, cache errors = lower cache i3, not stable at full speed = Pentium, etc).
The graphics card manufacturers do the same. Instead of wasting imperfect yields, they just sell them as lower spec'ed versions.
Shame Crypto mining doesn't pay.... (Score:2)
Oh wait.. Didn't Bitcoin hit an all-time high the other day? How long would it take on average to mine $399 worth of coin with one of these?
You all understand that the previous rush to buy Nvidia hardware for crypto mining is responsible for this right? All those R&D dollars that got spent are bearing fruit. Yea, I know the industry has moved on, but at least something good came from all this hoopla.
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About 6 months probably. I mined a little on my GTX 1070 on the tail end of last boom and with the recent price spike, what little I had in my wallet basically paid for the card. It's ridiculous.
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About 6 months probably. I mined a little on my GTX 1070 on the tail end of last boom and with the recent price spike, what little I had in my wallet basically paid for the card. It's ridiculous.
Even if you have free electricity, it would probably never pay for itself.
Re:Shame Crypto mining doesn't pay.... (Score:5, Informative)
i haven't mined in a long time, but 3 years ago that statement was hilariously untrue. i made about $12,000 mining Monero with 8 Radeon Vega cards. the rig cost me nothing since i sold it for what i paid to build it, and electricity cost me about $2000. It also provided more than enough heat for the entire upper floor of my house all winter. :P i mined from about September 2017 through February 2018.
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Funny thing about things that make money with little or no effort: people notice, do it themselves, and then that supply/demand thing butts in.
Looks like a 3060 would make you a buck or two a day currently, if you've got decently cheap electricity and mine the right thing. The right thing is not Bitcoin.
Actually this is probably them responding to AMD (Score:2)
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Oh wait.. Didn't Bitcoin hit an all-time high the other day? How long would it take on average to mine $399 worth of coin with one of these?
Too long. Bitcoin hasn't been worth mining on GPUs even with its record high prices for a long time. GPUs are not being used to mine bitcoin by anyone other than the truly clueless. They are mostly used for less mediawhorish coins. Mind you if you want to fuck the environment go set a pile of car tires on fire at least then you can use your computer for other things.
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yea? I knew that. Seriously.. Nobody was suggesting it was good idea to mine with these new cards.
My point was that for the short time miners used GPU's to mine with, they put money in Nvida's pockets by buying up every card in sight. This cash bolstered the company's R&D budget and we are now seeing the fruit of that investment.
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No your point is still very much correct. There are still very much currencies that are suitable to mine with GPUs, it's just not Bitcoin due to the mining complexity increases over the years. NVIDIA has very much been criticised during their launch of the 3080 and 3090 that they didn't do enough to keep the cards out of miner's hands.
Supply shortage (Score:2)
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3060 ti... but no 3060? (Score:4, Informative)
I see a review for the RTX 3060 Ti... but I don't see an RTX 3060. The Ti cards are supposed to be the higher-end version of the base card. Usually they release the Ti cards a year or so later, when maybe the original card was on a 12nm process and now they can make the same thing on a 10nm process, or when memory goes from DDR3 to DDR4 or something like that. I don't understand why they would make their first card of this generation a Ti card. It sounds like terminology inflation - Ti will become the base card, and then Ti Super will be the next gen. And if the generation lasts long enough like the 16xx did, will we have a Ti Super Duper card?
In response to those people saying they can't find the new generation of nVidia cards - even finding the previous gen is tough! Micro center doesn't have any GTX 16xx, or 20xx cards. Newegg has 2060's at $500+ dollars. And this is leading into Christmas.
Re: 3060 ti... but no 3060? (Score:2)
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Or they will become the 3050TI, lol.
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I don't understand why they would make their first card of this generation a Ti card.
Probably because that's the relative performance point they hit experimentally. This is all just marketing a product with a certain speed. No different really to the "Super" cards being released last year.
The "Help, AMD is coming for us!" card. :) (Score:2)
Let's hope we get so see good competition in there.
(As long as it doesn't lead to employee abuse or evil tactics. But rather a win-win-win.)
Launches at 1pm in the UK.... (Score:2)
Cards are reported to be shipping tomorrow (Score:1)
Funny joke.