A Million-Mile Battery From China Could Power Your Electric Car (bloomberg.com) 156
The Chinese behemoth that makes electric-car batteries for Tesla and Volkswagen developed a power pack that lasts more than a million miles -- an industry landmark and a potential boon for automakers trying to sway drivers to their EV models. From a report: Contemporary Amperex Technology is ready to produce a battery that lasts 16 years and 2 million kilometers (1.24 million miles), Chairman Zeng Yuqun said in an interview at company headquarters in Ningde, southeastern China. Warranties on batteries currently used in electric cars cover about 150,000 miles or eight years, according to BloombergNEF. Extending that lifespan is viewed as a key advance because the pack could be reused in a second vehicle. That would lower the expense of owning an electric vehicle, a positive for an industry that's seeking to recover sales momentum lost to the coronavirus outbreak and the slumping oil prices that made gas guzzlers more competitive.
Bullshit (Score:3, Funny)
Prove it.
Show me anything - other than COVID-19 - that can last a million miles, in a real stress test, that's made in China.
Go on.
Show me.
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Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
China makes whatever build quality its customers ask for. And its customer isn't *you*, it's the brands the sell stuff to you.
If a brand just wants a cheap POS they can unload on the customer, Chinese ODMs will happily oblige them. If it wants something of ThinkPad or iPhone build quality, they can satisfy that need too.
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> If it wants something of ThinkPad or iPhone build quality, they can satisfy that need too.
That isn't saying a lot. The design doesn't happen in China, only the build. For the most part its the build where the problems come in. Some ThinkPads are built in the US.
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Actually, unlike a contract manufacturer (CM), an Original Design Manufacturer (ODM) does the final design of the product they're building, and most laptop brands are using ODMs these days.
It makes sense. The brand's engineers and industrial designers may come up with what the device looks like to the user, but the ODM figures out how to shave precious pennies off the build, which matters a lot when you're going to sell a million of something.
As for those US-, Lenovo-made ThinkPads, that's a token politica
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ThinkPads were designed in China even during the IBM days.
As TFA says many cars already have Chinese parts, including Tesla batteries.
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Pretty much so. The times where China was behind in manufacturing and engineering are pretty much over and the west made it easy for them. Sure, they still make a lot of low-quality stuff, because that sells as well.
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I recommend Gamer's Nexus series on factories in China and Taiwan. Real eye-opener.
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The Chang'e 1, 2, 3 and 4 lunar robotic exploration craft. Two orbiters, two landers with a rover each. Actually only a quarter-million miles to the moon, but if you count the distance traveled in orbit too, it hits a million easily. Don't underestimate China: They can certainly make disposable tat cheaper than anyone else, but they can do quality manufacturing as well now.
Re: Bullshit (Score:2)
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Well that satellite orbiting the moon seems to be doing okay and went much further than a million miles.
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If you look at the cycle endurance of newer LiPO4 batteries [batteryuniversity.com], you see a depth of discharge of 40% yields a lifepsan of approx 3000 cycles. Very close to the 5840 cycles we've posited above. So all you need to do to make this possible is to give the EV enough excess battery capacity so that its maximum depth of discharge is about 40%, which isn't that far from the 60%-70% typically used in current EV
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Some Teslas did 3 million miles ....
Sold (Score:3, Funny)
I know I've bought all my used cars from guys who are ideologically sworn to kill me when possible, so why not my next new car?
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I know I've bought all my used cars from guys who are ideologically sworn to kill me when possible, so why not my next new car?
Why not?
Back during the Cold War there was a saying (claimed to be a paraphrase of a Lenin quote) that "The Capitalists Will Sell Us the Rope with Which We Will Hang Them." The US merrily traded with them anyhow (except for some government-interdicted military stuff - and crippled it's own software industry by including advanced crypto in that.) And look which empire got hung.
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I know I've bought all my used cars from guys who are ideologically sworn to kill me when possible,
What
Not true. (Score:2, Insightful)
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Aww... so cute. [wikipedia.org]
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Same link. You can start with the "Cultural Revolution" section, then Tibet, then Tiananmen Square.
We need not even get into the sheer absurdity of your claim that "No other nation comes close".
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You are being absurd, we funded Saddam Huessein with billions of dollars and dual use tech to gas a hundred thousand. We invaded Iraq for WMD that didn't exist and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.
You're comparing that to people in China sent to prisons in 1960s onward?
You have blinders on, have your head crammed up your self-righteous faux-patriotic ass.
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Not to mention in the 60s we purposely used agent orange to force peasants into cities and thereby caused starvation to death for 400,000 and maimed 3 million more. go USA
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Same link.
"The first large-scale killings under Mao took place during his land reform and the counterrevolutionary campaign. In official study materials that were published in 1948, Mao envisaged that "one-tenth of the peasants" (or about 50,000,000) "would have to be destroyed" to facilitate agrarian reform.[159] The exact number of people who were killed during Mao's land reform is believed to have been lower, but at least one million people were killed.[157][160] The suppression of counterrevolutionaries
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You were alive in 1940s? Again, ancient history.
I'm talking recent, what we've been doing in my lifetime that continues to now. USA is the leader in killing, maiming, causing famine, supporting despots and dictators.
Y
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You're simply engaging in willful dumbfuckery. Name a single country that has done a tenth of the coups, invasions, and overthrows of Democracy post WWII as the United States.
Dumb.
Fuck.
Er.
Eee.
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Soviet Union.
Iron Curtain anyone?
Gulags, mass starvations, Stalin's purges?
I think you get the point.
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Same link.
"Sinologists Roderick MacFarquhar and Michael Schoenhals estimate that between 750,000 and 1.5 million people were killed in the violence of the Cultural Revolution in rural China alone."
I've cited. Your turn. You want to include wartime deaths? You'll cleanly lose there, too.
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violating rights and privacy of citizens and others.
No you're cute with the ancient history. I'm talking in your lifetime.
The One Child Policy, and now the Two Child Policy, both have occurred within my lifetime. Try and convince me there is a remotely comparable human rights abuse in the US during that timespan.
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Try and convince me there is a remotely comparable human rights abuse in the US during that timespan. ... ... only very few freed by civil right activists.
Police killing blacks and not getting accounted for
Random civilians killing blacks "castle doctrin" and not getting accounted for
!00ds falsely convicted to death and sitting decades in prison on the "death road"
There is fucking no difference between China and America, except that the US has "two parties" wow, what a gain.
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https://www.hawaii.edu/powerki... [hawaii.edu]
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Laughable. Famines regularly happened before the communist revolutions in Russia and China, but capitalist cultists DGAF about them because it doesn't fit their narrative. Nor do purely capitalist disasters like the Irish Potato Famine, or the millions of Russia's who died when Yeltsin was selling off his country to capitalists.
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The chinese manufactured much of what I use but they didn't develop it.
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I remember the jokes about Japanese electronics in the movie Back to the Future. 50s era professor smartypants was absolutely certain only an idiot would rely on anything Japanese. 80s era teen (inserted by time travel into the 50s) thinks the Japanese make the most reliable consumer products you can buy.
Certain Chinese brands are making that transition now. In ten years time, some Chinese brand names will be recognized as among the very best in the world, at any price. Most Chinese companies will not m
They need constant reformating. (Score:2)
Not 1 Million Miles, Not for a Car (Score:4, Insightful)
These stats Tesla are claiming are very familiar to anyone in the heavy duty trucking industry. They're industry standards for line haul semi durability. Tesla is sending a message that they understand the trucking industry needs.
Source: experience in the trucking industry.
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Actually, if you listen to what Elon has to say, if is talking about cars too. But not your average mum's taxi. He's talking getting 1 M miles from the batery in a real taxi.
Why is he talking about taxi's and trucks instead of the retail market which is where the volume is? Because his vision it to turn every car into a taxi. He plans to do this through the full self driving stuff Tesla says they will have going by the end of this year. Once you have FSD, and you've driven your car to work or whatever,
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I've seen way to many semis with custom paint jobs and lots of chrome to believe this.
obsolete in 8 years (Score:2)
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Uh huh (Score:2)
"Chinese behemoth that makes electric-car batteries for Tesla"
So is this the big announcement Elon has indicated for revolutionizing battery technology or is their Chinese partner who engaged in industrial espionage and stole the technology releasing it before Tesla....
Battery electric cars will always be a luxury (Score:2)
The article says nothing all that new about the cost of batteries for electric cars. Batteries cost a lot of money and when compared to an internal combustion engine fashioned out of steel it always will be a luxury item.
I can see how fully electric cars can be attractive. They are quiet. They can achieve full power output at any speed. The need to stop for maintenance and fuel is lower than an ICE powered car. There's "camping mode" which allows for the entertainment system, lights, and HVAC to run fo
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All three of your modes exist now. All are cost effective.
1 is the system hybrid like the Prius. Its main benefits are better fuel economy, mostly due to regen brakeing (which you did not mention). Engine shutdown at idle also helps, but is not the "big win" in terms of efficiency.
2 is the current generation of "plug in hybrids" like the Prius Prime. Just 1 with the option of getting a percentage of usage from the grid. Regen efficiency is usually a bit better as well because the battery has more "room
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All three of your modes exist now. All are cost effective.
I wasn't claiming otherwise. I just wanted to show how the different variations on the hybrid theme would be attractive for different markets/consumers/uses.
1 is the system hybrid like the Prius. Its main benefits are better fuel economy, mostly due to regen brakeing (which you did not mention).
Yes, I didn't think of regenerative braking. What I learned from my time working on the solar car competition while at university, and in conversations with and reading articles by people that did their own electric conversions, the energy savings on regen braking are minimal. Car makers will always put regen braking in their cars as a feature becaus
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Unless or until a battery electric vehicle can achieve the same costs as an ICE.....
That's the goal
Re: Battery electric cars will always be a luxury (Score:2)
You are aware China manufactures and sell BEV for $10k yes? How much cheaper do you need to get?
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You are aware China manufactures and sell BEV for $10k yes? How much cheaper do you need to get?
Cheaper to purchase than an ICE powered car that can be claimed to be equivalent in any way. That includes when compared to used ICE vehicles.
I remember doing total cost of ownership calculations on my options for a different vehicle before making my last purchase. It is just very hard to compete with a used car for someone not too picky on what they drive. This new battery technology might mean EVs last longer but that also may mean they hold their value longer, making this next generation of EVs more e
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Sure, and we'll never have TVs that use LEDs for individual pixels because they can't make blue LEDs. I remember having that argument back in high school. Then blue LEDs were invented. Then the problem was that LEDs were just too big, etc. etc. until they produced LEDs that weren't too big. Fast forward to today, and we have LED-based TVs. They're just one competing technology, of course, but it's a viable technology because the required technologies to make them work were developed over time. The same thin
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The article says nothing all that new about the cost of batteries for electric cars.
More competent coverage [businessinsider.com] of the story quotes the price difference: just 10% higher than current lithium batteries.
Batteries cost a lot of money and when compared to an internal combustion engine fashioned out of steel it always will be a luxury item.
You do realize there's a helluva lot more to an internal combustion engine than the engine block, right? And my engine block is made of aluminum you insensitive clod.
And it's ridiculous statements like this one that convince people you're an ignorant idiot. I'm in favor of nuclear power, but with advocates like you, it stands no chance. Look inside the engine compartment of any modern vehicle
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It seems to me that we're on pace for cost parity within a decade.
Prices are dropping 8-30% a year (10-15 most years). It won't be long before it's cheaper to skip the hybrid part, at which point I'd expect most suburban homes (having driveways and probably garages) to be buying pure EVs if buying new.
Why luxury safer electric cars should be free (Score:2)
Something I wrote in 2009: https://groups.google.com/foru... [google.com]
This essay explain why luxury safer electric (or plug-in hybrid) cars should
be free-to-the-user at the point of sale in the USA, and why this will
reduce US taxes overall. Essentially, unsafe gasoline-powered automobiles in
the USA pose a high cost on society (accidents, injuries, pollution,
defense), and the costs of making better cars would pay for themselves and
then some. This essay is an example of using post-scarcity ideology to
understand the sca
Or one from Texas or Nevada or ... (Score:3)
TFA says the Chinese company is ready to go to production on the packs if anybody orders them.
Musk says he already has a million-mile cell, plans to build and use a pack of them for his next model/revision, and is cutting the deals to site a factory to do so (probably in Texas). Meanwhile his Nevada battery gigafactory is still building out, so the new lines might be designed to make, or be capable of making, these cells and/or packs as well.
Lookin' good.
============
TFA doesn't say what constitutes lasting for a million miles in this case. I've seen "90% of rated capacity" as the criterion for the claim in previous articles and I'm hoping it's being used here.
===========
Also: Musk's million mile batteries are expected to be just fine for stationary use at somewhat reduced power for another twenty years. (Capacity may be lower but self discharge not any, or only trivially, higher and no catastrophic end-of-life failures.) "Recycling" them by using them for a second and third life (i.e. a couple decades) as utility-level or home-level storage for electric power peaking and renewable energy time-shifting has already been touted. The same might be expected of batteries from Amperex and others.
If that works out it would both further cut the recycling load (compared to reducing them to their component chemicals) and solve the remaining big issue impeeding efficient use of renewable electrical generation resources.
Isn't this like the other "miracles" out of China? (Score:3)
Basically, until the science is reviewed and units are tested, there's zero point in getting excited.
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This is what I was thinking as I was reading. While I must admit I'm particularly distrustful of technology from mainland China given my experiences with said technology, until we see it actually perform, they are as full of it as any company in the world who make such grandiose claims about the product they are selling. Simple as that.
Oops, got excited there for a minute (Score:4, Funny)
Has anyone bought a used EV or hybrid? (Score:2)
Has anyone bought a used EV or hybrid?
I've been reluctant for the same reason I don't buy any other used rechargeable products - fear that the battery will not last. Has anyone had any experiences in this area they'd like to share?
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I've seen a couple or three YouTube videos of people replacing batteries in used EVs and hybrids. One such video I recall featured a rebuild of some hybrid or another.
The featured hybrid car could still be driven with the busted battery, but was bought cheap because the dash computer kept complaining about the battery and therefore was a difficult sale. The buyer considered this a low risk project because of the relatively low cost (relative because a hybrid with a dead battery was still a lot of money),
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I didn't buy them used but I have two old EVs. One is 8,5 years old and the other is just past 5 years.
The oldest one has lost probably 15% of maximum charge capacity, but other parts has also degraded so it now uses 180wh/km, not the ~140wh/km it did initially - so range is reduced by more than 15%. Still works for our use case, we rarely drive it more than 40-50 km a day.
The 5 year old one has lost less than 5% of maximum charge capacity and the charging speed when fast-charging has been reduced somewhat
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I thought they meant 1 million miles on a single (Score:2)
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Re: Apartment (Score:2)
Or some other point that I'm missing?
Check out the big brain on Brad!
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All very good points. But, as you included in your response, there aren't any problems with providing charging facilities that aren't solvable. Hell, an apartment complex could turn EV charging into a profit center. Take a 100-unit complex, install 20 high speed chargers, and make them available for a price to your tenants. You could charge by the KWh if you wanted to. I have to chuckle a little at the "upscale apartment" comment though. I used to live in a $400/month "not anything remotely upscale" ap
Re:Apartment (Score:4, Informative)
And? Is this supposed to be an argument against EVs?
Yes, and a very notable argument against EV ownership.
I keep seeing people claim that EV owners can charge up while at work, stopping to eat, going to a movie, or while performing some other task. The likelihood of any EV charge point to allow someone to park for hours at a time is unlikely. These charge points cost money to install and operate, especially if there is some need to meter the electricity and/or time parked.
That's why those companies partner with companies that install charge infrastructure (Tesla, ChargePoint, EVgo). The charging infrastructure companies handle the billing, and your credit card gets charged just like if you went to the gas station. The only difference is that it takes longer, so you tend to do it while you do something else, rather than as a separate stop.
Even just an unmetered common 110 or 220 volt outlet for slow charging will be expensive for businesses to install and maintain.
And at single-digit miles per hour, nobody in their right minds would do that at this point unless they already have it. Anybody adding charging infrastructure these days is adding DC fast charging. And because they partner with major charging networks, they are easily discoverable, and it ends up being a profit center for the stores, rather than a loss.
There would have to be enough of them to meet demand. Unless it's in some kind of temperature controlled structure (which has it's own costs) it will have to be built to hold up to the weather. There will have to be some kind of safety systems installed (beyond just an over current circuit breaker), such as GFCI, an emergency cut off, and/or something else.
You keep saying "outlet". Even slow charging isn't done with an outlet unless it's in a private residence. You use a dedicated charging station so that A. drivers don't have to bring their own cords and adapters and B. the property owner can control who is allowed to use them and/or charge a fee for their use. The things you mention are (by law) built into any EVSE. The incremental cost of an EVSE over an outlet is just a few hundred bucks, which is a fraction of the install cost.
People that live in upscale apartments might be able to arrange for a charger to be installed at their assigned parking spot. There could be people willing to put up with the inconvenience of recharging away from home. Because all of these will be rare the likelihood of an apartment dweller to buy an EV is low.
Not at all. Lots of people live in apartments and drive EVs. Many of them charge at work; the rest use Superchargers or other DC fast charging. It's not nearly as inconvenient as you think.
Re: Apartment (Score:2)
Clearly you've never been to Canada. Most places outside of southern BC have 110v unmetered plugs for block heaters in every parking stall. If they didn't they wouldn't have customers in the winter.
Granted it's not EV charging, but it's not a large expense either.
Google "block heater parking lot" for images.
Re: Apartment (Score:2)
And your landlord cannot provide power lines to your parking garage because...?
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Many neighborhoods are power limited by the transformer capacities. Not every house can have an EV and charge at the same time. Power companies are installing or subsidizing smart chargers that prevent too many cars from charging at the same time and leveling the load throughout the night. Apartment dweller have same problem with an even higher possible car density.
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And you can find a different apartment building with the amenities you want....
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This isn't likely to change without regulations that add new requirements to apartment complexes over a certain size.
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California already requires most complexes to allow tenants to install EV charging (1947.6), though it does not force the landlord to pay for it. Also, it requires all new apartment/condo construction with more than 17 units to have EV charging for at least 3% of its spaces, with at least one in a shared space that can be used by any residents. Some places, such as San Jose, are even more strict. In that city, 70% of all parking spaces in new apartment projects must be pre-wired so that adding EV chargi
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This will change. It's only going to be a problem for a short while.
We already see less demand and lower prices for houses and apartments without the possibility of setting up a charger here in Norway where EVs make out about 20% of city driven cars.
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We already see less demand and lower prices for houses and apartments without the possibility of setting up a charger here in Norway
But those places with no possiblity of having chargers are not going to go away. In the UK there is a very high percentage of accommodation that could be described in that way. The kerbsides of the residential streets of UK towns and cities are full of parked cars all the time, because there is nowhere else to put them. The charging of EV vehicles will be a massive problem (at least in the UK) once they cease to be a small minority.
Even in the better-off suburbs, where houses are provided with a garage
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I still cant buy an EV because I live in an apartment, no matter how big or well designed the battery is.
Technically, you can buy one ...
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I still cant buy an EV because I live in an apartment,
Talk to your apartment manager or owner about installing a charging station for your parking place. (You can use a locking switch to keep your neighbors from charging their cars on your dime.)
Offer to pay for the installation and extra electrical meter/service (and perhaps cut some deal for a partial rent credit).
Talk to a tenants' rights attorney or group about how to structure the offer so he doesn't have an incentive to jack up your rent or encourage
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I live in a condo. There are a few residents with EVs. The Board has a process to get that in if my parking spot needs it. It's just hydro, not rocket science (as we Canadians say).
If your apt building doesn't, get enough tenants together to demand availability. See how far fee-market economics gets you.
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This is an infrastructure problem that should eventually be resolved by the apartment complex providing charging in parking spaces (if you have parking spaces - maybe you can't buy an electric car because you can't buy a car at all). The problem is, they don't have enough pressure on them to provide that while the proportion of EV's to ICE's is so low. There are some potential interim solutions though. One would be mobile charging services. Basically you could have trucks that could drive around to parking
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Yes you can.
Go to a charger station the same way you no go to a gas station. Or do you get your gas at at your apartment?
I just ordered a Model Y. It gets a 130 mile charge in 15 minutes.
Bonus round: You can talk to your apartment building owners about adding a charging station. You might talk them into it. But you will never talk them into installing a gasoline dispensing station.
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And for getting CNG from fueling stations, you will pay similar to the Gas/diesel prices.
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The humorous thing about getting a nat gas car, is that you have to have a special pump that will run the nat gas up to a much higher pressure. ANd that takes..... ELECTRICITY.
Sure, it takes electricity. Far less than an EV and therefore would not require the same kind of heavy and expensive wires. Such pumps could easily run off of solar panels on a canopy over the pump, or even a generator that burns the natural gas that's piped to it.
And for getting CNG from fueling stations, you will pay similar to the Gas/diesel prices.
Sure, for today. What will be the price next year? Because natural gas can't be shipped as easily as liquid fuels by sea the price of natural gas is far less influenced by foreign actors. I remember gasoline prices being roughly double what t
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A charging station is much lower maintenance and less risk than a CNG refilling station. With a CNG refilling station you then have a explosion hazard, 2600-3600PSI of compressed gas will make quite the boom if it springs a leak (note, if you use tanks so that you can fill quickly, the tanks will also have to be re-certified or replaced every 5-10 years (depending on the type)), compressors are expensive when they break.
A fast charging station uses a similar amount of power to an electric stove (50
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A fast charging station uses a similar amount of power to an electric stove (50 amps at 240VAC) that requires 6 gauge wire to it (usually 6/2 which has 2 power wires and a ground wire), its around $1.75/foot for the indoor/outdoor wire, or $1.42/'foot for indoor wire, then $30ish for the outlet and box and $20-30ish for a breaker.
That's not a fast charger. A fast charger takes 3-phase 480 VAC at over 100 amps.
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For 3-4 years, we lived on 120V/15-20A.
Then we switched to 240V/40 amp, same as our dryer.
Nothing heavy or expensive.
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The future starts at home with PHILL, the CNG refuelling application for vehicles. It can be easily installed at home connecting it to the 220w power supply and to the domestic low-pressure gas pipeline. PHILL consumption is directly charged to your gas bill costs! [fuel-maker.com]
Same 240 supply.
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BTW, here is PHILL:
[snip]
Same 240 supply.
Look again, it's 220 WATTS. The pump pulls about one amp. It should still have a dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuit because the startup current is higher, maybe 10 amps, but once it gets going it just putt-putts along at an amp or so.
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> How does compare to what Tesla is currently doing?
This IS what Tesla is doing. CATL is their supplier in China.
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Tesla's current battery packs reportedly last between 300,000 and 500,000 miles of typical driving and charging. So if this pans out it is a 2x to 3x improvement.
Here in the Northeast, it has little significance because few car bodies remain structurally sound for 300,000 miles, but it opens up some interesting possibilities in places like SoCal.
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It still have significance in the Northeast, you say that few car bodies remain structurally sound for 300,000 miles, but that is due to the salt/iron rust problem. Teslas are all Aluminum, so for them this is a significant deal even up there.
Re: I hope it's true (Score:2)
Aluminium also doesn't like salt. I'm not sure whether it does significantly better than iron or not, but I do know that it's not immune.
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I've been driving for over 50 years. I doubt if I've put on 500K miles in my lifetime. True, I've lived and worked in close proximity in urban and suburban settings. That's always been the dominating "location" issue in choosing my residence. Being able to purchase a single battery that would last a lifetime would be a powerful factor in my auto purchase. But I'm certain that auto manufacturers made sure that there were sufficient varieties in form factors and specifications to prohibit any lifetime-battery
Re:I hope it's true (Score:5, Informative)
If you take a Model 3 battery with 322 miles of range per cycle. 1m / 322 miles = 3000 cycles. (Although likely Tesla's target is more like 5-6k for a "million mile" warrantied battery)
If it takes 30 minutes to charge/discharge a cell they could do a million miles in a lab in 62 days. And get a very good statistical trend within a couple days as usually the first couple hundred cycles have most of the initial degradation and then it levels off to a constant degradation rate.
CATL says their battery is ready for purchase today. It's likely a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery. Which is different from what Tesla makes and researches. Tesla is buying off-the-shelf batteries for its china plant since they don't have a battery factory in China. Likely this is a bridge solution for the Chinese market since the Short Range Model 3 is only using half of its battery pack space. They might as well use lower energy density but higher reliability batteries like LFP.
My expectation is that the US Model 3s will get Tesla's Nickle Manganese Cobalt formulation batteries that are also million mile but are much more energy dense and will offer the long range models. Then once they can build a battery factory in China transition over the Chinese market model 3s to the Tesla chemistry as well.
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While your cycle test is valid math, the batteries would degrade before the end of the test.
Batteries are subject to heat and cycle rates. If you charge/discharge them quickly they wear out more quickly. Even if you keep the temps low (which you can do in the lab), the battery wear is a lot higher for quick cycle testing.
I suspect the 5000 cycle estimate is based on comparing this chemistry to others and coming up with a good "statistical" guess. It is "probably" not wrong.
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Miles per KWh is not a function of the battery. If the battery delivers one KWh of DC, it is up to the car to use it.