It's 2020 and USB-C Is Still a Mess (androidauthority.com) 125
"It's the middle of 2020 and the USB-C standards are confusing even for the most technical person," writes Slashdot reader mprindle. Robert Triggs writes via Android Authority: USB-C is billed as the solution for all our future cable needs, unifying power, and data delivery with display and audio connectivity. Ushering in an age of the one-size-fits-all cable. Despite the USB-C connector supplied as default in modern smartphones, the standard has, unfortunately, failed to live up to its early promises. Even the seemingly most basic function of USB-C -- powering devices -- continues to be a mess of compatibility issues, conflicting proprietary standards, and a general lack of consumer information to guide purchasing decisions. The data speeds available over USB-C have also become increasingly convoluted. The problem is that the features supported by different USB-C devices aren't clear, yet the defining principle of the USB-C standard makes consumers think everything should just work... The article goes on to discuss the charging speed and data transfer speed disparities, USB-C port shortages, and compatibility issues with USB 2.0, 3.0, and 3.1 cables.
"Unfortunately, the USB-C ecosystem is more, not less convoluted in 2020 than it was when I first looked at this issue back in 2018," writes Robert Triggs in closing. "The announcement of USB 3.2 and USB 4 makes the standard more complex without giving the end-user clear information about what's supported. While the growth in USB Power Delivery support is a good sign, the introduction of PPS has already hampered any hopes that the industry might soon coalesce around a single charging standard. The USB spec changes every year, making it impossible for consumers to keep up. Years later, I still don't see a clear way out of this confusing mess."
"Unfortunately, the USB-C ecosystem is more, not less convoluted in 2020 than it was when I first looked at this issue back in 2018," writes Robert Triggs in closing. "The announcement of USB 3.2 and USB 4 makes the standard more complex without giving the end-user clear information about what's supported. While the growth in USB Power Delivery support is a good sign, the introduction of PPS has already hampered any hopes that the industry might soon coalesce around a single charging standard. The USB spec changes every year, making it impossible for consumers to keep up. Years later, I still don't see a clear way out of this confusing mess."
USB cable hell (Score:2)
Like in many households, mine has a lot of Apple and Android devices, plus all sorts of gadgets that need charging via USB. As a result, every place where people like charging their gadgets (car, kitchen, living room) we need to have at least two cables (thunderbolt, and micro usb). Then USB-C came out, and that's great, because it's a better connector than old micrro USB. But sadly, the old and current micro usb devices never went away. And oh joy, now I need to have the unholy mess of charging cables in e
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https://www.amazon.com/Amuvec-... [amazon.com]
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So your solution to his complaint that he has too many cables...
is to buy more cables?
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The solution isn't to just buy more cables. The solution also requires taking the old shitty cables and put them in a drawer as a backup, or simply toss them out and forget they even existed.
I learned a long time ago how cable length affects the maximum speed of a passive USB-C cable, and how some cables are rated for 3 amps and others for 5 amps. As a simple visual cue I've bought quality passive cables of differing lengths for my USB-C devices. Long cables (about 2 meters) are my 5 amp capable "charger
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Usually, when people accuse you of crap like this, it is something that they've done and been caught at and they're pissed that they're no longer able to do it.
Re:USB cable hell (Score:5, Funny)
USB-C is a Dog's Dinner (Score:3)
Re:USB-C is a Dog's Dinner (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:USB-C is a Dog's Dinner (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, if anyone complains USB-C is a mess... they're clearly ignoring it's the exact same mess as USB-A.
There are power only USB-A ports. There are USB2 USB-A ports. There are USB3 USB-A ports. There are USB-3 10gbps USB-A Ports. There are USB-A ports that can handle 20gbps. There are USB-A cables that only handle 5V 3A, There are USB-A Cables that handle up to 20gbps. There are USB-A ports that only handle power. There are USB-A ports that deliver 12v. Some that can 15v. Some that can handle 1.5A some that can handle 3A. etc.
USB-C does a lot of things, like USB-A but you don't have to figure out what the orientation is! Everything else is the same old issues we've always had.
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Yeah, then add to that shit sandwich that there are active and passive USB-C cables. Most of the modern USB-A ports have more or less standardized in the last several years to USB 2 or high speed USB 3.0. Good luck getting a reliable USB-C cable greater than 18" long that can do full speed transfers...you'll never know for sure it will work for you until you try it.
I don't know what you are talking about. A USB 3.x compliant high speed cable will have the stylized "SS" symbol on the USB-C connectors. Those capable of more the 5 Gbps will have a number indicating it's maximum supported speed. If the symbol is not there then it's not complying with the USB 3.x spec. Maybe you can find some cables that don't have this symbol but end up being "close enough" to pass high speed data, but I suspect such cables are rare.
Another indication of the speed of the cable is it's
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Ok, now explain that to my 83 year old mother.
This is how I explained it to my mother...
"The red cable is for slow charging. The white cables are for data and fast charging. Keep the red cable in the car, and a white cable next to the computer. If you want to keep a charger in your purse then use one of the white cables, that way you can use your device and not worry about the battery running low. Your phone and tablet use the same cables and chargers so don't worry about which cable or charger is for what.
Red cable for the car, white cable everywh
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If you were a good son, you would have just bought white cables for everywhere and been done with it. How much did you save on that red cable in her car, so she has to remember red or white? Just spring the few extra bucks and be done with it.
Mom won the red cable at a family Christmas party game, she's a bit attached to it. Being a non-data cable keeps the car's dash computer from trying to sync to her phone or tablet and confuse her with new information on the dash screen. The red cable has charger ends on it for micro-B, USB-C, and Lightning so it can charge most any phone. This is handy if one of my siblings is driving her somewhere since Mom has an iPhone and some of my siblings have Android phones. Since the car's in dash USB ports don
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Ok, now explain that to my 83 year old mother.
"Hi Divide Overflow's mother, computers can sometimes be complex so call you son when you need advice."
Did I do that right? Why not help your poor mother by telling her not to buy cheap garbage and instead throw out every cable in her box that isn't SS certified. Her life will be much better and you're more likely to get some awesome cookies baked for you at Christmas.
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I like your answer better than mine. Good job.
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It's 2020, and we just now got the goddamned ability to not have to worry about which way to plug the thing in. However, we're still living in a society that holds the stockholders higher than the customers. 'Things just working' doesn't really generate enough money.
But no matter what you think about the woes of USB-C, monitor cables are the biggest scam in human history.*
*Not really**
**I don't care
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Monitor cables are made from an unholy alliance of electronics companies and copyright cartels. So, we have the same issues that we have with USB and we add the additional clusterfuck of 'Digital Rights Management' [HDCP] baked right into the hardware to prevent you from doing whatever you want with your media. The copyright cartels have been trying to get analog connectors removed from devices (they even tried passing a law to ban analog connectors on media devices) in an effort to 'plug the analog hole'
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They should have ditched USB-A and B for USB 3.0. Allow USB-C to B cables but that's it, everything else USB 3 should have been C only.
USB 4 will be C only.
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That ultimately fixes nothing. USB-C cable isn't the answer, not when that USB-C can be active, passive, support PD fully or only partially, and be plugged in to a port that provides only charging, data, displayport alternate mode, audio, or even extend Thunderbolt depending on what damn device that USB-C port is on.
Complaining about the connector is a small little piss in the ocean of USB's problems.
USB-C is a Joy (Score:2)
Maybe I am missing your point, but for some reason you trying to find fault with the fact that USB has the versitility to make better use of the connectors and wires in certain edge cases.
We are not talking about basic storage, power for devices...which on the whole have just evolved and are backward compatible.
We are talking about optional...because of there specific nature, alternative modes...displayport, thunderbolt and hdmi. Hope you are seeing a theme. They are about using an external display. They si
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I don't think anything can fix that... No standard gives you consistent high power charging to to 100W, for example. Ports are always going to have different capabilities.
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On my work laptop, i have to use the USB-A for USB3 because the USB-C port only does USB2
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There are USB-A ports that can handle 20gbps.
I'm pretty sure that there are no such thing. Well, maybe someone somewhere hacked such a thing together but this is not part of the USB spec.
There are USB-A ports that deliver 12v. Some that can 15v.
That is again not part of the USB spec. I can point to some idiot that wired up a USB-A port to a 240 volt AC circuit but that doesn't make this part of the "mess" that USB created.
USB-C does a lot of things, like USB-A but you don't have to figure out what the orientation is! Everything else is the same old issues we've always had.
Except for the part where most of this is all wrong. The reason that manufacturers felt a need to violate the USB spec with higher voltages and more current than the spec allowed was thi
USB-C is pretty standard (Score:2)
Except you are not telling the whole truth. I can plug my USB C phone into a computer that existed a long time before USB existed, because standards.
If my phone runs out of charge. I can use a charging station/locker/bench , ask a college for a cable.
If I need a cable I can use one from a whole host of USB devices, or buy a new one cheap online or in store.
You are looking for a problem that does not exist.
Biding My Time (Score:2)
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they tried to make it do everything.
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No. That would have worked. Actually, that is the way out of the mess. USB-C is a hodgepodge of features, seemingly all optional. The solution is USB-Cx (or USB-5 or USB-D or whatever). All of the same features, but this time everything is mandatory.
Every host port supports all possible speeds. Every host port supports all possible charging standards. Every cable supports full speed, full power. Every hub does transaction translation if it wants to support legacy ports, and supports all power modes
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This! They tossed everything but the kitchen sink in, making it extremely unlikely that you'll find any single port or cable that does it all and complies with spec.
Some of the power capabilities aren't really even in the realm of possibility for some host devices.
Here [youtube.com] is a video of some tests on the upcoming USB-D power provisioning.
Except we are not (Score:2)
The only real holdout is the dated lightening, because Apple likes money.
USB C is the best of the best, and has continued to evolve while remaining compatible.
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No. That would have worked. Actually, that is the way out of the mess. USB-C is a hodgepodge of features, seemingly all optional. The solution is USB-Cx (or USB-5 or USB-D or whatever). All of the same features, but this time everything is mandatory.
Every host port supports all possible speeds. Every host port supports all possible charging standards. Every cable supports full speed, full power. Every hub does transaction translation if it wants to support legacy ports, and supports all power modes (subject to current availability) if it wants to support new ports.
We had something like this with FireWire a long time ago, and it nearly killed it. FireWire is still hanging on in some professional A/V gear but it's likely going to fade quickly with USB-C and Thunderbolt catching on.
FireWire required all devices to support 400 Mbps (which was very fast at the time it came out for an externally accessible and hot-plug port). All cables had to be rated for something like 40 volts and 2 amps of power. This meant that every device had to be able to accept this voltage too
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FireWire was just too expensive to implement for an $8 mouse, or even a $100 modem.
Great point. Elsewhere in the thread, people are calling for future USB standards to support all features across all ports and cables, without considering the cost. Those chargers and cables can cost pennies wholesale because they don't support everything.
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Yes, because we need to have six dollar, 20 Gbps baluns and such on our four dollar mice!
The solution is to realize that you need a "low speed" (under 1 Gbps) port and a "high speed" (video) port, and live with two different cables. One for video, one for everything else. We WiFI print all the time (at speeds MUCH slower that 1 Gbps). Almost all peripherals you're connecting to your computer would be easily handled with 1 Gbps.
Except video. With 4K - and now 8K - you need massively more bandwidth. An
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I'm hanging back and my most advanced USB connections are USB 3.0. I won't make the jump to USB-C until this mess gets sorted out.
How can you avoid USB-C any more? Any phone or tablet computer sold today is going to have USB-C. Maybe with Apple devices you can avoid it for a bit longer if you buy the older models of iDevices since it looks like newer devices with Lightning ports will still come with Lightning to USB-C cables and USB-C chargers.
Why is it that the earlier iterations of USB went fairly smoothly, but USB-C has been a complete f**k-up?
You clearly hit your head or something since implementation of earlier iterations of USB was far from "smooth".
I can remember early USB devices coming with obviously non-compliant cables, with
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So far I've avoided it here as I haven't had to buy any new computers, phones, tablets, or anything like that in the past several years as the stuff I have is working fine and I really haven't seen a reason to replace any of it. I do have a work provided phone that has USB-C, but everything I have has USB type A plugs, and microUSB on the device end except for a couple of really old devices that have miniUSB.
Hopefully this is mostly sorted out by the time I need to buy something.
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And? Lightning cables do the same thing. As do charging cables. Heck my Surface connector cable started smoking. I'm not sure of your point.
a) don't buy cheap cables, regardless of what they are for
b) don't use cables where the strain relief starts looking questionable regardless of what they are for.
Blaming USB for this is quite silly.
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I won't make the jump to USB-C
I'm not sure why you think this is a "jump". USB-C just is. It exists. You can use cables that convert from one to the other. There's no motherboard on the market that supports only USB-C but not also provide B ports (Apple's retardedness is called a "logic board" not a "motherboard").
There's literally no reason to avoid USB-C and no reason to adopt it. It just is or isn't and shouldn't factor into your purchasing decision at all at this point.
Been using USB-C since 2016 no issues (Score:4, Interesting)
Our company adopted google pixel chromebooks for our non-engineering staff in 2016, also the same year I got my first USB-C cell phone. Since then I've run in to one situaiton where my USB-C charger didn't charge my device.That was in early 2017.
Since then, every USB-C device charges great from any name-brand USB-C PD charger. I buy pretty much exclusively Anker/Apple/Google branded USB-C PD chargers and either Anker or Cable Matters branded cables, which cost about the same as generic brand cables, $1.00 USD/ft, and... have not ever had any problems.
Just buy stuff specificially labeled to work with USB-C PD and you won't have a problem. All my devices (except my e-book reader) are USB-C. Still waiting on Amazon to release a Kindle with USB-C but otherwise I've been USB-C on all my devices; personal and work laptops, wireless bluetooth headphones, nintendo switch, oculus rift, power bank batteries, cell phones, tablets etc all use USB-C to charge. I've been fully USB-C now for about three years with zero problems and zero regrets. We moved my wife over to wireless charging and USB-C is now the only charging cable in the house (except the fitbit, which uses a proprietary thing, and the ebook reader from 2012 which is still mini/micro usb)
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The story is plain old click bait. It runs every few months, when there is nothing else to report. I guess, this time they got it wrong. There is plenty of worthwhile news all around. But they still had to rehash the old meme.
I have had the same experience that you had. USB-C works and it works well. Most of the devices that I have bought in the last couple of years have switched to USB-C. And they work well with each other. Definitely better than older proprietary USB extensions ever managed to do (remembe
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And I am sure this meme will be posted again and again.
It'll keep being posted until we can plug a device into a USB-C socket and expect it to work without having to look at the capabilities of said socket. You said you have the same experience as the OP, well so your experience is one of having to apply careful thought to what you plug into where and the capabilities of either end.
That is the "mess" being discussed. It's not wrong. My only complain with TFA is that they expected something magical happened in 2020 despite no changes to the standards in the past
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Yeah that's definitely not the first and probably not the last time time I've seen this on /.
And I can't really disagree with this, of course it's a mess. It does bother me that looking at two USB-C devices and a cable, I don't really know what's goign to happen when I plug them in. Will this 30W USB-PD charger charge my phone? Yes. Is it using QuickCharge or USB-PD? No idea. Will it charge my laptop? Yes, unless it's in higher performance mode, then it won't. Will this USB-PD powerbank charge the latop? No
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Just buy stuff specificially labeled to work with USB-C PD
Easier said than done. I want to go into the store and buy stuff that works without having to spend hours researching this stuff to buy a $5 cable. The industry has turned to pure garbage where standards are not adhered too. Now I have to research every single damn item I have to buy because the industry of garbage is now so prevalent that you have to sift through all the garbage to get something of some reasonable quality. Just look at keyboards. I've used the same logitech keyboard for over a decade. Logi
Re: Been using USB-C since 2016 no issues (Score:2)
My wife 1.0 still requires wired charging every day.
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That's weird, I usually give her a re-charge when she comes over for coffee
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Similar experience here. You only get problems with early, cheap gear.
These days even the cheap cables are fine. I have a USB-C 65W charger which can charge both my phone and a laptop. I also have a battery with USB-C PD so I can top my phone up on the go at 18W, about 80% charge in half an hour.
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Just buy stuff specificially
And that's kind of the problem isn't it. USB-C isn't some all encompassing standard and my phone will act differently whether I plug it into my Anker USB-PD charger, or the socket on my desktop motherboard. The display I have won't work on my motherboard, but will work on my laptop. That laptop charges at 60W with one of my cables but only at 45W with the other.
The fact that you have to "specifically" look at the capabilities of your device is the fundamental point of the article.
USB 4 will somewhat reduce
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Yeah you're gonna have to read the specs on the side of the box before you buy it. I don't think that has changed one bit since the before times.
And yeah dell laptops won't charge while running on anything less than 65W which is annoying, but they will trickle charge on an 18W PD charger if the laptop is fully powered off. But you can't put diesel in a gas car and expect things to work normally either. There's a lower limit on consumer awareness, there's just no way to reduce a true universal connec
Seen it before (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe you can call it the F35 of data cable standards.
Or the LCS (Score:2)
Designed from get go to be a universal modular platform for a combat ship (frigate). Great intentions. Who wouldn't want a lego ship you can reconfigure for a new type of mission on short notice. What could possibly go wrong?
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You might want to check some news about the F35 that's from the last 5 years, because the USB cable isn't even best of class.
Generations... (Score:2)
The biggest load of shit with USB has been the 3.1 generation fiasco. Allowing the re-branding of USB 3.0 as "USB 3.1 Generation 1" fucked over consumers and completely devalued the branding of USB 3.1. Disingenuous manufacturers are getting away with suckering people into buying "high speed USB 3.1" devices that are really USB 3.0. Finding real high-speed USB 3.1 devices ends up requiring so much more effort to find the right bullshit "generation."
Then add to that even allowing anyone to implement a US
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Being liberal about what's acceptable is good for broad adoption, and ubiquity is quite a virtue; but inevitably leads to more advanced and expensive features being something you can't rely on without specific verification; which is deeply irksome and counts against the ubiquity for people who have more demanding uses in mind.
If you put the base
there's something about serial connections... (Score:2)
that eludes standardization. Once Upon a Time there was a thing called RS-232, and it was confused. 25-Pin DSub (Male or Female on the cables?) or 9-Pin? Hardware handshake or XOn/XOff? Oh the combinations were myriad and mysterious. And it's STILL around.
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I'll see RS-232 style serial on devices yet but it seems they mostly use an RJ45/8P8C jack now. The number of pins means a lot of the hardware handshaking is gone. Same for the devices that use the DE-9 port. Things like male and female, pin location, are fairly standard. Once in a while I'll need to use a "null" adapter to flip the pins a bit. When it comes to setting up the port it's just remembering "9600 8N1" in anything but the most unusual cases.
Somewhere in my basement is a shoebox full of seria
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And then look at the voltage range for "compliant" RS-232, but most real-world devices are signalling at 5V.
So in reality it's a (Score:2)
one size fits nobody?
...except it does (Score:2)
A quick glance around. I have a ton of devices...torches,power packs,phones,SBCs,laptops,tablets,mice,keyboards,watches all working with USB...and it is the normal, and just works.
You are right that USB continues to evolve, and that is wonderful. I don't want my devices tied to a 1996 standard, and over that 24 years the transition has been pretty smooth.
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A quick glance around. I have a ton of devices...torches,
Damn, you live in some Star Trek fantasy land! Over here, our torches require a stick, a strip of cloth, and a match!
It's a great connector (Score:2)
Works right side up and upside down. A technical hardware tour-de-force.
Unfortunately the software guys, or rather their corporate employers, couldn't agree. Kinda spoiled things.
USB-C spec is fine, compliance is a mess (Score:2)
I've actually read quite a few of the USB specification documents and I believe the people behind the spec put a lot of thought into it to make it logical, safe, and easy to use. The problem comes in when people violate the spec.
Not all violations of the spec are equal. One such example is this magnetic breakaway charger cable I have. Technically it violates the USB-C spec in that it is a cable that passes 60 watts of power but has no means to pass USB 2.0 data for power delivery negotiation. Instead ea
well.. (Score:2)
Renaming USB 3.0 to USB 3.1 gen 1 only caused unnecessary confusion: if you have a device that requires the 10gbit throughput of 3.1 gen 2, a lot of your customers are going to be confused that it will work w
Naming scheme confusion (Re:well..) (Score:2)
The USB spec group fixed this complaint. The "gen 1" and "gen 2" naming, and perhaps even the version numbers, were not considered for general consumer consumption. These were the names on technical documents intended for the technicians to read and use.
There's a new naming scheme now for general consumer use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Users of the spec are supposed to stop using the version numbers of the documents they comply with and use "SuperSpeed USB" followed by the maximum speed supported by
Alt Mode (Score:2)
USB-C DisplayPort Alt-Mode only
I am looking at a laptop with the above port ....
What on earth is AltMode only? Does that mean I need an alt mode device? How do I know if the device only supports normal mode? Are other devices compatible? Can I use a mouse in there? Is that only for displays? Can I put a hub in there and attach accessories. Iâ(TM)m assuming there is no power because it would say power.
Background: I have written windows device drivers and manage telco systems but know what it feels li
might be ambiguous English? (Score:3)
I'm guessing that laptop's USB-C port doesn't support the newer HDMI Alt-mode?
You should be able plug in a dock that has DisplayPort + USB hub + power and be fine. A lot of companies make ones that have a USB ethernet as part of the hub.
I suggest digging up the manual and support page for that laptop and see what docks and cables are recommended by the manufacturer. That will help you find what that means.
Background: I wrote drivers for some alt-mode source a few years ago (ARM Llinux based). Mostly I deal
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USB-C DisplayPort Alt-Mode only
I am looking at a laptop with the above port ....
What on earth is AltMode only?
It means it doesn't support other modes like USB 3.x or Thunderbolt.
Does that mean I need an alt mode device? How do I know if the device only supports normal mode?
It does mean that you will have to use a device that supports the DisplayPort protocol. The way the USB group use "alt mode" means that there isn't really a "normal mode". The device will specify which modes it supports, but you might have to read the fine print to find it.
Are other devices compatible? Can I use a mouse in there? Is that only for displays?
The way the USB-C spec is defined they have to keep USB 2.0 support on the port with rare exceptions, this is generally needed for negotiating power and alternate modes
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That's called marketing it's not something wrong with the standard. It sounds like it's a USB-C port which also supports Alt-mode, but only for DisplayPort and not for Thunderbolt, HDMI, or MHL which are the other three Alt-modes.
You want to get really into the weeds, look to the VirtualLink port on GPUs. They are some non standard hybrid of DisplayPort Alt mode combined with USB 3.1 and a requirement for a special cable.
Well, the "Useless Serial Bus" has come a long way (Score:2)
... but they still mess up the standardization every new generation. This time it was basically the "Second System Effect" on steroids, i.e. they wanted far too much. This time it is probably a lot harder to clean up the mess than before. And I bet, once the mess is cleaned up and this works reasonably well, they will com up with another new, initially mostly broken standard.
Progress (Score:2)
Seems like you are complaining about progress. One of the major benefits is usb is it has continues to march forward...and remain backward compatible while keeping the connector.
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Nope. I am complaining about standardization bodies that are unable to learn and make progress on the quality of what they produce. Quite obviously.
Quality (Score:2)
That's easy USB has become Universal. It is simply the best out there. Nothing compares. It's nearest competitor is earlier revisions of itself.
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That does not mean it is good or that its standardization is well handled. The current situation with USB-C makes that amply clear.
Well Handled (Score:2)
You are just making vague accusations instead of any facts. USB4 changes will appeal to most things Slashdot posters want to see improved. Simplifying the naming...albeit they are going to continue the old style internally. Making some but not all optional features standard. A doubling of speed again. Multi port hubs with balancing of bandwidth for devices. A reversible connector, and an uncertified Thunderbolt 3.
All in all 2020 looks to be a great year for USB-IF.
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What drugs are you taking? Because that is not what is happening in actual reality.
Still a mess? (Score:2)
Not sure why it uses the qualifier "still". Nothing has appreciably changed in the USB standards or in 2020 so far to even attempt to resolve the issues that the previous standards brought up when they introduced USB-C.
As for USB 4 being more complex, no it isn't. USB 4 is little more than a mandate supporting some of the previous option features of USB 3.2. By it's nature the USB-C plug in the USB 4 standard will be less confusing as there's less possible combinations of things that vendors can optionally
The standard is trying to do too much, too fast (Score:2)
Too many problems trying to be solved at once.
We're trying to make the connector reversible and more durable. We're trying to extend charging to high wattages. We're trying to extend data into the 10s of GBits. And now we want the connector to be universal. This is doable technically, but I don't know how the hell you make it a common standard when there are good enough older specs available.
It's only cost effective with the economies of scale associated with mass adoption, but the specs are so extensiv
I gave up trying to keep up... (Score:2)
It starts with the name, USB (Score:2)
USB means universal SERIAL bus. When your SERIAL bus ends up with 24 lines (16 of which are for signalling), it's kind of lost its mission right there.
Stop trying to make an "all in one" connector. It would be overkill for 99% of applications, and inadequate for the remaining 1%. Provide power (5V, up to 3A is plenty for just about anything short of a printer), ground, and a differential pair. Double up so it can be reversible. That's it. A single differential pair that can run up to 1 Gbps.
Basicall
Yes! USB is foobar. (Score:2)
We all know tech changes faster than is practical or sensible. It should be obvious when you try to make a universal solution to handle every use case it comes out worse. It should have a "law" title put to the repeating error.
Each time you change and adapt to progress in 1 area of use, then you need a new standard variation or restart. When you merge different areas of use into 1 you multiply the number of situations where changes are needed. So now each revision of display tech will impact USB along w
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My antiquated PC has 2.0, extra-filtered-power 2.0, some 3.0, and one type C. But because my Motorola phone is standards-based, it does fast charge from my PC. I've never tried any non-Moto wall or car chargers, though. Also they aren't updating my phone to 10...
Except it does not (Score:2)
This is not 2012. Lightening then was a reason to choose an idevice. This is 2020 and it is a reason to avoid idevices, and more importantly a reason Apple should not be allowed to have a separate standard.
USB has simply evolved past lightening, at the same time remaining compatible.
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My favorite bit from Apple is when they used to (and maybe still do?) ship a lightning to standard USB type A cable with their iDevices. Except that their own laptops don't have USB type A plugs on them anymore. Oops.
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Clearly we need a new standard to fix this.
Let's call it USB D
Re:Just like hdmi cables (Score:5, Informative)
To paraphrase the xkcd comic "there are 20 standards, they all suck, let's make a new one. ... Later there are 21 standards that suck"
Ultimately the problem here lies in the fact that USB-C should have been be-all-end-all, but leave it to companies to implement it on their own and they will come up with a way to proprietarize it. Look no further than USB-C headseets. They suck, and can only have one connected, and only if not connected to a dock that has audio on it.
The Nintendo Switch is also guilty here.
So, how do we solve this? Well ultimately it has to be done in two phases:
1) Certification
2) Blacklisting
Certify devices, cables, and accessories on what USB-C services are supported. Indicate which devices are following the standards, and providing an easy way to cross-reference a product (eg by scanning a NFC chip embedded in the cable connector ends) with what the device validation says.
Then blacklisting devices that don't work. That way users can take their phone out and scan the devices before ever purchasing them to see if they are the device listed, and it will work with their devices. Blacklist USB-C cables that are incapable of having 130 watts via PD pulled over them. Blacklist anything that cuts corners (like unpowered docking stations powered by 500mA non-switching power supplies), where the expected results are not going to work. Blacklist DisplayLink devices that don't also support native Displayport output.
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Certification is a market entry barrier. It tends to be no problem for established companies, but the small shops that could innovate (including makers, and people with crowdfunding campaigns) would suffer.
I also don't see the point of embedding a NFC chip in something that has a data connection already (we already have USB VID and PID since USB 1.0 to identify a USB device from the host). I guess that mechanism could be extended to cables.
Blacklisting based on VID and PID is something that can already be d
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I also don't see the point of embedding a NFC chip in something that has a data connection already
As I read that I thought it was so people can verify compatibility of a cable before they buy it. It also means people can verify quality of a cable before it is plugged in and does something stupid or dangerous like short out the power supply or something. Since many cables are passive to allow for the support of non-USB protocols the use of the NFC chip keeps the cable passive and backward compatible.
As I see it there's plenty of existing legal and technical forces keeping cables from violating the spec
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Many standards do not suck, though.
I'm confused. Did you read what you wrote? (Score:4, Insightful)
> "there are 20 standards, they all suck, let's make a new one. ... ... then blacklist the ones that don't work
> Indicate which devices are following the standards,
I think your first sentence, your statement of the problem, suggests why that solution won't work.
USB-C is a connector for at least three different speed standards, I think four different ones. A device that supports ANY of those speeds is "following the standards".
The USB-C standard says how Ethernet works over the USB-C connector. Do your USB-C headphones do Ethernet? Nah, they are headphones, they do sound. They are perfectly compliant USB-C devices.
The USB-C standard specifies how HDMI should be carried over the connector, and how Displayport works over the connector. Of course a USB-C mouse doesn't do HDMI, because it's a mouse, not a monitor. BUT once we've established that "a compliant decide doesn't have to support all the different types of connections that can be carried over USB-C", that leaves us with this question:
What does the USB-C port on your phone do?
Is it an HDMI port? Displayport? Does it let you connect a mouse and keyboard? Maybe it's simply the charger port?
Anyway of hrse would be compliant, because simply having a USB-C port doesn't require that the device provide external storage, doesn't require that it be an audio device, etc.
A port can do not but slow charging and it's a standards compliant USB-C charging port.
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Editor's note: This is an updated version of an article published in 2018 and 2019.
So the 2021 article will be the same again, and the 2022 one, and the 2023 one, and the 2024 one, and...
You missed mentioning all the crap that runs over the basic USB 3 connector, 3, 3.1, 3.1 Gen 2, an infinite variety of Thunderbolt types and variations, Thunderbolt with DP-Alt mode, and they're all incompatible and if you get one tiny thing wrong nothing works.
USB 3 is for the people who never got to experience the fun that was SCSI.
Re:Just like hdmi cables (Score:4, Informative)
Blacklist USB-C cables that are incapable of having 130 watts via PD pulled over them.
This would make USB-C cables way too expensive to be used for most devices. Raspberry Pi has a 5V/3.1A USB-C power supply. Imagine having to have a cable which is capable of running 130W (I suppose that's a typo?) but never doing so, because it never has to. It's like enforcing Formula 1 compliant tires on minivans.
If you mean standalone cables, the same issue exists. I have bought 50 EUR USB-C cables designed for high bandwidth for my external nVME SSD but I am using 5 dollar USB-C cables to charge my phone. Each of those cables has its different purpose, and they both fulfill that purpose 100%. I would have hated to pay 50 EUR for a cable that would do the same thing a 5 dollar cable does.
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Blacklisting is a bad idea, USB is successful and acceptable because it is open. Well, kinda open, they still want to charge for a VID but because there is no blacklist you can actually just use one and there isn't anything they can do. 0xF055 is a good value to use for open source hardware.
Re: Just like hdmi cables (Score:2)
The main issue with hdmi is that there are many different versions of the spec, and itâ(TM)s extremely important to ensure that all your equipment is compatible with the requirements of the version that youâ(TM)re trying to use. This is especially important if youâ(TM)re trying to use higher resolution/frame-rate video as the bandwidth requirements can easily double or quadruple with a single configuration change. In RF the quality of the signal path is everything. Buying a cheap cable to con
Re: Well, it's 2020 and... (Score:2)
The number of atheists is actually pretty trivial. Given how many other options there are why pick on Christians? I equally disbelieve in all of them and don't care what they do as long as they leave me alone and do their thi
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Success so far.
Sure. But if the number of non-atheists grows enough, you might not feel as much at ease as you do now, and would probably not post publicly what you just said. That is because the "as long as they leave me alone" works with having enough atheists to prevent the non-atheists from dictating their rules (cf thousands of years of past history). And yes, non reciprocity, usually atheists leave the non-atheists alone.
I am behind the standard (Score:2)
Love the EU for pushing standards, I hope it continues to do so.
I agree with you this article is about defending Apples refusal to adopt this clearly better standard because...Money.
The great argument against standards is competition, and Lightening is a great example of that. It was simply better than anything else...when it came out.
The reality is though lightening is looking old and useless, and is destroyed by the latest USB C. It has achieved this by moving that standard forward While maintaining compa
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Be thankful that the EU wants to lock this in as a standard that all devices are required to support. Not allowing technical improvements for years.
I for one am more thankful for the people who think like you, don't bother reading the EU technical documents, and don't actually understand what is going in the world around them. It makes me laugh. Laughing releases endorphins, and endorphins make people happy, so I give thanks daily that I can wake up and read stupid comments like yours.