Volvo To Roll Out a New Electric Vehicle Every Year Through 2025 (techcrunch.com) 102
Volvo Car Group President and CEO Hakan Samuelsson laid out the company's new business strategy that includes introducing a new EV every year through 2025 and slashing the carbon footprint of the lifecycle of every car and SUV it builds by 40%. All of the changes are aimed at Volvo Cars' target to become a climate neutral company by 2040. TechCrunch reports: A critical piece to hitting its target will be making more EVs available. The automaker plans to launch an all-electric car every year over the next five years. By 2025, it wants all-electric vehicles to represent 50% of global sales with the rest compromised by hybrids. As of this year, every new Volvo launched will be electrified, which means it could be a hybrid, plug-in electric (PHEV) or all-electric (BEV) vehicle. To hit this target, every Volvo model will include a Recharge option. This means a plug-in hybrid or all-electric version will be available, according to the company. To further encourage electric driving, every Volvo Recharge plug-in hybrid model will come with free electricity for a year, provided through a refund for the average electricity cost during that period. Volvo also plans to triple its manufacturing capacity and is now quickly ramping up its production globally, Bjorn Annwall, head of global commercial operations at Volvo, said during the press conference. Volvo is aiming for plug-in hybrid cars to make up 20% of total sales in 2020.
Volvo isn't ditching combustion engines completely. But it's distancing itself from them by spinning it out. Volvo Cars and its Chinese parent company Geely Holdings will merge their existing combustion engine operations into a standalone business. The move will "clear the way for Volvo Cars to focus on the development of its all-electric range of premium cars," Samuelsson said. "So we believe we will bring sustainability into our company, not as something to add on, because it's good or something that is expected for us," Samuelsson said. "We bring it into the company because we think it's really good for our business. It will make our company grow faster it will make our company stronger exactly as safety made Volvo stronger."
Volvo isn't ditching combustion engines completely. But it's distancing itself from them by spinning it out. Volvo Cars and its Chinese parent company Geely Holdings will merge their existing combustion engine operations into a standalone business. The move will "clear the way for Volvo Cars to focus on the development of its all-electric range of premium cars," Samuelsson said. "So we believe we will bring sustainability into our company, not as something to add on, because it's good or something that is expected for us," Samuelsson said. "We bring it into the company because we think it's really good for our business. It will make our company grow faster it will make our company stronger exactly as safety made Volvo stronger."
Compromised by hybrids? (Score:4, Funny)
It's sad to see how badly hybrids ruin perfectly good EV sales.
A Tesla-sized company every month (Score:2)
Employers, apartment complexes, and others have Tesla charging stations because a lot of people have Tesla cars, right?
Just to get an idea of scale, in the first 9 months of this year, Volvo made over half a million cars. This year, they'll make as many cars as Tesla has in it's entire existence. Volvo isn't a major manufacturer - they aren't in the top 20. Each big car company, like Toyota or Volkswagen, puts out 10 MILLION cars per year. (More every month than Tesla's entire history).
If the major car co
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Any one of the major manufacturers will sell 5 million EVs the first year they decide it makes since to do so.
What do you base that on? And why don't they do it today?
Obviously some have tried, Chevrolet and Honda and Nissan. They've had various levels of success but clearly haven't seen the value in going all in on them yet. They've not sold anywhere near 5MM per year. Toyota's Prius is maybe the best example of a commercially successful EVish vehicle and they've not quite sold 5MM in the 20+ years they've been on the market.
In any case I don't think any of the majors can produce a desirable EV right now. Te
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Currently the major manufacturers are mostly experimenting with E cars to see what works best. They don't want a failure, so they are taking it slow.
Possibly the worst cars ever produced by a major manufacturer were the Edsel (60,000 sold per year) and the Pinto (500,000 sold per year).
Note those numbers. A total failure is half a million cars per year, for the big manufacturers who typically sell 10 million. If a major manufacturer did a big launch and totally fucked it up, in one year there would still b
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I'm having trouble reconciling what you are going for here. You wrote that a major could sell 5MM EVs by just deciding to, then you wrote that they are experimenting to see what works best. Regardless of what they are o
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Let me put it this way. Imagine I'm selling shrimp-flavored chocolate candy bars. You think that shrimp chocolate bars are the next big thing. Sure enough I'm selling *thousands* of shrimp candy bars. You and I both think that shrimp bars could one day more popular than regular chocolate bars.
I say to you:
--
Hershey's sells a billion chocolate bars a year. If shrimp chocolate takes off, people could end up buying a billion shrimp bars every year. Because people might one day buy a billion shrimp bars, I'll
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-quick refueling
-refueling is everywhere, so
-range range range
-some cost no more than the gas version of same vehicle, so
-cost less than EV
EVs are doing this to themselves, maybe once price competes with or beats gas on the same model.. Until then early adopters get to PAY.
Looking at getting a hybrid now, EVs are either too expensive or too small plus charging stations aren't everywhere yet.
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2 Running cost of a BEV is really cheap. Like 75 cent/gallon for gas cheap. BEV prices are dropping they achieved price parity with gas cars for the 80K+ segment five years ago. Now they have price parity at 40K segment. Will achieve price parity 30 K segment in a co
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Now here's a comment that needs to be downvoted. Charging stations ARE not "everywhere" and that's not because people have failed to recognize electrical outlets.
Seriously, people will lie about anything.
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So you wo
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Battery improvements are occurring pretty much yearly, the winner wins big, long life, low weight, compact and high storage, they who get closest, sell the most stuff with their batteries in it (non moving batteries ie house batteries can be high weight and low storage, space and weight are less of problem).
Shh, Volvo are telling porky pies, you see there is a difficult transition period where you sell fossil fuellers to gullible customers who will get financially butt kicked when their vehicle gets banned,
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Battery improvements are occurring pretty much yearly, the winner wins big, long life, low weight, compact and high storage, they who get closest, sell the most stuff with their batteries in it
The lead-acid battery was invented about 150 years ago, and has been quite popular since. After all this time the the energy density from batteries has improved by maybe ten times. Now, this might seem impressive but we are talking about rechargeable batteries going from 0.1 MJ/kg to 1 MJ/kg. This is not very impressive when compared petroleum fuels that have an energy density around 40 or 50 MJ/kg.
Petroleum has another advantage over batteries, it is an energy source, not just a medium for energy storag
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Petroleum is a storage medium for solar energy, in fact. The storage just happened 300 million years ago.
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None of this hang wringing over energy density actually matters though.
Batteries are good enough. Charging is good enough. The only bit that isn't good enough is the cost, and that's falling rapidly.
Imagine you could buy an EV that could do 250 miles and then recharge in 20 minutes. Actually you can, the Porsche Taycan can do it. The Tesla Model 3 isn't far behind either, at least with the more expensive models.
In a few years even if batteries don't improve (they will) the cost will come down to where fossi
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In a few years even if batteries don't improve (they will) the cost will come down to where fossil cars no longer make economic sense for most owners.
How would that work? What economic forces would drive a market that produces only 2% of annual new light vehicle sales to become cheaper than most of the roughly 17 million new light vehicles sold every year?
Here's what would make an electric car real cheap, a massive drop in crude oil prices. If that happens then an electric car isn't all that attractive. What happens if crude oil prices rise significantly? Electric vehicle prices go up, because more people will want them. What else could move the pri
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Massive demand for lithium ion batteries. It's already greater than the world can supply and increasing as more models enter the market.
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Massive demand for lithium ion batteries. It's already greater than the world can supply and increasing as more models enter the market.
How does this help the case of electric cars pushing gasoline burners out of the market?
Here's what I expect to drive fossil fuels out of the market, carbon neutral gasoline.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Don't replace the car, replace the fuel.
Relative (Score:2)
-quick refueling
only relevant when you need to refuel fast mid-trip.
- the point of BEV (and PHEV) is to leave them charging while you're not driving them (including leaving them charging over night)
- during roadtrips, the driver is supposed to take regular breaks in order to be rested so unless you have 3 drivers constantly rotating between driving/assisting/sleeping you're going to stop for some rest every two hours(*) or so (Also no matter the crew in the car, you need top stop for bathroom breaks, because physiology), s
Great. But where's the charging network? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm encouraged by the newish CCS standard charging that should give non-proprietary similar performance, but where are the stations? That's my main worry with a long range non-Tesla EV right now.
Don't get me wrong - I want more choice, and fully welcome the announcement. I just need to know about the other crucial side of things.
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Pre or post-Raven Model S? It makes a big difference in charging times - not because it charges faster, but because it uses less energy per unit distance.
VW's Electrify America network is building out. A good number of dots on the map, but most only have 3 charging spaces, vs. a Supercharger station which averages 10. Still, their buildout rate isn't too bad. Their price structure is terrible, though.
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Build it and they will come - Field of EVs.... So basically, several co-workers I deal with said that once a major building added three charging station to the 1st floor of the parking garage, within a span of months employees purchased EVs and have been camping in the spots. It go so bad that there's trying to figure out how to get people to charge, then move the car or be towed.
I think the best solution would be to have some sort of overhead cords (retractable, like a shop air-hose) where you park and pull the line to charge the car. It's doable. The problem is going to he the LOAD. Once the morning rush-hour is over, you'll soon get a morning rush-charge.
I feel like the "future" would be when cars can juggles themselves between spots while parked.
Imagine the tech that Tesla recently introduced to "fetch" your car in a parking lot, combined with local area control of a charge station and a "docking" method.
Initially these stations would have a handful of parking spacing they could service, which over time might be capable of servicing entire lots.
Re: Great. But where's the charging network? (Score:1)
I feel like...
No doubt. Thinking is more effective for this application, however.
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I feel like...
No doubt. Thinking is more effective for this application, however.
Super great quip.
But tell me while this idea isn't feasible/practical
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I feel like the "future" would be when cars can juggles themselves between spots while parked.
I believe the future would be inexpensive chargers for most every spot in a parking structure. Or, electric cars that aren't so short on range that people don't feel the need to plug in the car while they go to work, shop, eat, or whatever.
How much can a 15/20/30/whatever amp, 220/240/250/whatever volt, standard electrical outlet cost? Then again, while the outlet itself might not cost much the management of the power delivery might be a problem. Having a run of wires to allow every parking spot to charg
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I feel like the "future" would be when cars can juggles themselves between spots while parked.
I believe the future would be inexpensive chargers for most every spot in a parking structure. Or, electric cars that aren't so short on range that people don't feel the need to plug in the car while they go to work, shop, eat, or whatever.
How much can a 15/20/30/whatever amp, 220/240/250/whatever volt, standard electrical outlet cost? Then again, while the outlet itself might not cost much the management of the power delivery might be a problem. Having a run of wires to allow every parking spot to charge at once would likely be impractical for more than a handful of cars. The cars would likely need a means to negotiate the charging, set priorities, and manage payment.
The cars might not "juggle" themselves, but the delivery of power might have to be juggled. If this cannot be juggled properly then there might be people needing someone to give them a lift home. This would certainly take a lot of shine off of electric cars.
Again, the solution should be less about parking spots for electric cars to charge up but more about cars that have enough range that such kind of parking should be unnecessary.
If each car could just have a miniature nuclear reactor under the hood ........
I jest /wink
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You're not free because you're armed though, unless your in a bunker when climate change causes some crisis....
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Routine daily charging limited to 80%. That leaves you with 192 miles. On severe winter days with serious load on heating the cabin, 1/3 goes to heat and 2/3 to drive. Gives you 128 miles range. That is sufficient for commute + 2 errands for about 80% of the population. Less than 240 miles nominal range, it is a severely compromised car.
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240 mile range is what you need to avoid charging outside your garage in your "home range".
Let's go with that, since most people currently drive a gasoline burning car with a nominal 300 mile range. Remember the whole goal with using an electric car instead of one that burns gasoline. The goal is to reduce the CO2 in the air. What if we could produce gasoline without a net gain in the CO2 in the air? This is being experimented with right now.
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/s... [nbcnews.com]
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/... [theengineer.co.uk] (To those that claim that jet fuel is not car fuel I point out that jet fuel is just
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I will never force you to drive an electric.
Just remember the stance you are taking now. 5 years from now 240 mile battery cars will be priced way cheaper than fuel burning cars. At that point you can put money where your mouth is, and pay the extra cost for the range you so desire.
As it stands today, it is a draw between BEV and ICEV in the 20K
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Hey, if you like coffee you drink coffee, if you like tea you drink tea. Want to drive a gas car or a hybrid or a natural gas car or a hydrogen car, go ahead.
I will never force you to drive an electric.
Um, okay. Good to know.
Just remember the stance you are taking now. 5 years from now 240 mile battery cars will be priced way cheaper than fuel burning cars. At that point you can put money where your mouth is, and pay the extra cost for the range you so desire.
I don't know who you are arguing with, but it's not me. I don't know where you got this idea on my stance.
Here's my stance, just so I'm clear. Keep your eyes on the prize. The goal is not electric cars, or at least it shouldn't be. The goal is carbon neutral cars, and making electric cars is just one way to get there.
We can certainly continue to produce and develop electric cars, and someone likely will for many years, but an electric car is not likely to ever compete with hydroc
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I, personally, would not like to have a gas pressure booster in my garage. Especially not for the pressure you need to store a large amount of gas in a small tank. I've never been around one where I could not smell gas, even when it was only raising the pressure to 2 psig.
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Most likely EVs will be a flow battery in which you can refuel anywhere from 1,000 to 3,000 miles instead of 250 with gasoline. No charging required, just take it to a local station and drain/refill.
Did you read the article, or watch the video, and not just glance at the headline? They claim an energy density of about 1000 watt-hours per kilogram. This is about 1/10th that of ethanol, diesel fuel, gasoline, or any of a number of common fuels used now. That's impressive for an electric vehicle, but not that great compared to fuels already in common use.
Oh, and they claim a range of 300 miles on a recharge/refill/whatever, so not that different than existing electric or gasoline cars. The 3000 mile r
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I could live with a much lower "home range", myself, since my daily commute is 2-1/2 miles each way between home and the train station, and if I visit my son on the weekend it's maybe a 40 mile round trip, and less for a round trip to the store. Anything longer I would go with my wife's van.
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Probably several hundred dollars if you're adding one right next to a panel with a suitable spare.
It's not just the cost of the receptacle, though. It's the cost of the materials & labor for the wiring, conduit, distribution panel, feeder, and maybe even a change to the switchgear if you add enough of them.
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The problem is going to he the LOAD. Once the morning rush-hour is over, you'll soon get a morning rush-charge.
That's actually pretty easy to manage. Most EV manufacturers will be plenty willing to handle load balancing the charging for a cut. The billing can be handled by various techniques, and as we move to higher percentage of base load being supplied by solar, production during the day will spike, and there will be a reversal of cost structure where electricity cost during the day will be lower. With a high enough EV percentage out there, it would even be possible to use the grid vehicle charging as a massive array of grid attached load balancing that can make peaker plants completely unnecessary. People would charge at work during the day because it is cheaper and power their homes from their vehicles at night to avoid the higher cost of electricity at night. That kind of a setup could permit as much as 50% of base load to be supplied by solar power. Essentially the massive array of personal vehicles on the road would provide the massive amount of energy storage that is needed to steady the supply when intermittent renewables are used as base load supply.
It may be far fetched today, but it is a perfect example of the power of statistics and large numbers. Just like the cost of smart thermostats are offset by the savings available, and utility incentives, market forces will essentially optimize the grid in good ways once there is enough rolling battery storage.
The problem with each spot having a charge station means that each spot needs to be wired. Means massive infrastructure. Especially when scaling up to EV's. Even IF all vehicles on the road were EV wiring every spot would still be dumb. Ever seen the massicve amounts of empty spaces in a lot anywhere in any given day/time of day.
I stand by my "self juggling" solution. ZERO infrastructure, with existing tech, suck it.
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Why do they need charging for their EVs in a building? Just charge the car up at home during the night and it will last the day.
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Why do they need charging for their EVs in a building? Just charge the car up at home during the night and it will last the day.
Because if I live in Orlando Florida, and I want to drive to Milwaukee Wisconsin , a single charge aignt gonna get 'er done.
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The EA (Electrify America) chargers seem to be making a lot of routes viable already. I use DC-Orlando on abetterrouteplanner.com as my personal litmus test for long range EVs - the just announced Volvo XC40 EV is estimated to be able to do that with 2 hours 40 minutes charging, which is not too bad.
The EA chargers do seem to be really expensive - the same trip estimate for a standard range Model Y is 2 hours 13 minutes charging, and only $39 vs $154 for the Volvo using the EA chargers. That's more than you
Compromised ... (Score:2)
"By 2025, it wants all-electric vehicles to represent 50% of global sales with the rest compromised by hybrids." Sales of hybrids probably do negatively impact sales of electric cars, so that's probably a Freudian slip.
Chinese owned and manufactured (Score:1)
Re:Chinese owned and manufactured (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, Polestar 2 is just a Volvo-branded Geely. Made at a Geely plant in China.
China has tried a number of times to get the west to buy Chinese cars, with little success. Buying an already-known western brand is probably their best chance.
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Buick and Cadillac are both popular brands in the PRC, although considered high-end.
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MG are Chinese now too. Their new EV, the... er... EV ZS I think... Is actually quite decent. Very cheap and you don't get much EV specific stuff (it is an ICE conversion) but at the price it's remarkable - literally half what a Model 3 costs and decent range.
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Note that the Volvo Trucks is a separate company.
What one car every year? (Score:5, Funny)
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Release an electric XC70!! (Score:2)
I love my 2005 Volvo XC70 and would be excited to get an electric Volvo. Unfortunately, they seem to be chasing the "bling"y luxury market these days, trying to compete in the same space as Land Rover and Audi.
It seems to me like there's a lot of market crossover between people who are interested in EVs, and people who want a hefty dadmobile with tons of cargo space; comfortable luxury; and a little bit of cred in the latte-sipping, weekend outdoorsman community.
If they released an electric XC70 I would be
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I love my 2005 Volvo XC70 and would be excited to get an electric Volvo. Unfortunately, they seem to be chasing the "bling"y luxury market these days, trying to compete in the same space as Land Rover and Audi.
Most of the Chinese sales to date are still cars one expects to be driven around in, so they put in cool features we can't get here like front passenger side seats with a passthrough for the rear pass side passenger's feet; most of the remainder are miniature econoboxes that can't survive a collision with those cars, let alone an American SUV. They sell them anyway because the value of human life is lower in general, especially the lower classes. (And some people still think China is Communist, what tools.)
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I know it's not the same, but there's the V90 with the XC option, and presumably at some point that will also have the electric or hybrid drivetrain. At least I hope so.
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those are already available as hybrids, but it's a full EV version that i'm waiting for.
There were 20 EVs at the HK Auto Show (Score:2)
Look, the cold hard reality is that there are a number of vehicle firms building car, SUV, truck, and other EVs. You can't sell non-EVs in half of the world.
When British Columbia rolled out it's ZEV program (this includes other forms of emissionless vehicles), they thought it would take 5 years to get to 5% of the vehicle market. They subsidized it and they got to where it's 50% of all new vehicle sales - car, SUV, truck - in less than a year.
Adapt.
Because the market has spoken and corporations and consum
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When British Columbia rolled out it's ZEV program (this includes other forms of emissionless vehicles), they thought it would take 5 years to get to 5% of the vehicle market. They subsidized it and they got to where it's 50% of all new vehicle sales - car, SUV, truck - in less than a year.
The heck you getting those stats? This article [vancouversun.com] states ZEVs are at 6% of all new vehicle sales and 15% of light duty vehicle sales in BC.
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When British Columbia rolled out it's ZEV program (this includes other forms of emissionless vehicles), they thought it would take 5 years to get to 5% of the vehicle market. They subsidized it and they got to where it's 50% of all new vehicle sales - car, SUV, truck - in less than a year.
I highly doubt that. Looks to me about 7,000 out of ~60,000 in Q2 of this year, which admittedly is a big jump from Q1.
https://emc-mec.ca/new/ev-sale... [emc-mec.ca]
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t... [statcan.gc.ca]
Still, that's over 10% while Canada wide EV sales are about 3.5%
The new ZEV mandate legislation, recently introduced for first reading, requires 10 per cent of all vehicles sales in B.C. to be battery electric, hybrid or hydrogen fuel cell by 2025.
B.C. is already halfway there. According to Qualey, EVs and hybrids now accoun
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It's all California's fault.. selling those fuel efficient vehicles , legislated by Satan himself. I heard those cars are paper thin pieces of trash too. IGNORE any scientific safety results your have seen! Those are 100% unadulterated FAKE NEWS. The most important thing is obviously undoing the work of Satan's first born child : Obama. But a close second is lining the pockets of the wealthy.
Rate me troll. you heard the truth, i'll deal with he repercussions.
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You are nuts. Global EV sales have declined this year over last year. Not sure what world you are living in. And your BC "status" are completely wrong.
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Since they increased the subsidies in BC they did indeed sell more EVs. When they decreased the subsidies in Ontario they sold less. There is no question that subsidies do help sell cars. I personally don't think it is government's job to take tax dollars from everyone and give it to a few to lower their car payments, but that is why we have elections thankfully.
Huh? (Score:2)
Batteries won't make an airplane fly... (Score:2, Interesting)
Batteries won't make an airplane fly across an ocean. Neither will batteries get a cargo ships across an ocean. Large construction and agricultural machines burn diesel fuel, as do trains, and long haul trucks. The class of vehicles that we can replace with electric versions is limited. The energy density in hydrocarbon based fuels is orders of magnitude higher than what batteries can provide. I saw evidence of this when at the grocery store the other day, there was a propane powered floor polisher in
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I don't think it is unreasonable to guess that an electric plane will make it across the Atlantic by 2046, and would be unsurprised if it happened much sooner.
Sure, that might happen. If that does happen then it will be a stripped down experimental aircraft with a crew of one or two people. It will go very slow, to reduce energy and power needs, making this a very uncomfortable trip. And it will be totally impractical for carrying passengers in regular service. Here's a video that explains the problem... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Ocean going electric boats are actually more practical than airplanes because they can be fantastically huge, and can take advantage of lots of surface area for things like solar.
I'd like to see someone try. First off, I'd expect any battery powered ship to fail any kind of seaworthiness inspection.
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Ocean going electric boats are actually more practical than airplanes because they can be fantastically huge, and can take advantage of lots of surface area for things like solar.
They don't have much surface area compared to their mass, or the amount of energy it takes to propel them. It seems like airplanes are actually a better case for solar panels. Ships normally carry a certain minimum amount of ballast, you can reasonably replace that with batteries. But planes carry as little fuel as possible, so if you can extend their range without adding more battery that's a big deal. Thin-film solar panels printed directly onto the wings would do that at only a minimal mass cost.
It's also worth noting that for literally thousands of years all ocean going vessels were wind powered...
There ar
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Re:Batteries won't make an airplane fly... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is ludicrous. Why would anyone put up with the complexity and unreliability of an internal combustion engine if they can do without? Yes, there are a few niche situations where they may be necessary as you point out, but what does that have to do with passenger cars?! Volvos are not used for shipping cargo across the Pacific Ocean, nor do they have to fly at 36,000ft. Why would we waste massive amounts of energy synthesizing hydrocarbon fuels for vehicles when we could just use the energy in vehicles directly and not suffer the conversion losses?
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This is ludicrous. Why would anyone put up with the complexity and unreliability of an internal combustion engine if they can do without?
You are absolutely correct. If people had the option for something simpler then they'd take it. The thing is that they don't have that option. It's far easier to synthesize fuels to reduce CO2 than to engineer battery powered vehicles that get the same range, speed, and carrying capacity.
Yes, there are a few niche situations where they may be necessary as you point out, but what does that have to do with passenger cars?!
Because not everyone wants to be limited to a vehicle that can get only 200 or 300 miles on a charge before needing to stop for hours to recharge. Because an internal combustion engine provides a lot of very useful heat
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Trains don't need to be field by diesel. Electric motors drive the wheels and the diesel engine is only there to generate electricity. The engine may be replaced by anything that supplies the same amount of electricity. Bombardier has been trying to get someone to build their system which uses a jet turbine. Of course one could take the engine out all together and electrify the route which is common in Europe.
There's no reason why we only have to have one type of infrastructure. Electricity works well for l
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The long haul trucks aren't an issue as the drivers need to stop for mandated rest breaks, assuming that they have drivers for much longer.
Really? Show me how that would work. How would a long haul battery electric truck work. Tell me how much this truck would weigh, it's range, and how long it would take to recharge, and what kind of voltage and current would need to be applied to recharge in that time. I've done the math before. The numbers tell me battery powered trucking is just an opium dream.
Here's some quick math on this. Typical fuel capacity on a long haul truck is 150 gallons, which will weigh (in round numbers) about a half to
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Batteries won't make an airplane fly across an ocean. Neither will batteries get a cargo ships across an ocean. Large construction and agricultural machines burn diesel fuel, as do trains, and long haul trucks. The class of vehicles that we can replace with electric versions is limited.
You're right that there are lots of things where trying to cram the appropriate amount of energy into a battery just won't work. That said, passenger cars seem to work pretty well. And passenger cars produce lots of pollutants--especially when you have a few million of them in an enclosed area. Replacing a bunch of ICEs with batteries and electric motors isn't a bad thing.
Just because one type of transportation uses a particular type of fuel doesn't mean that all transportation in all situations should u
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And this is a benefit to...who?
I can plug in my car overnight at home. I don't have to drive to a gas station to get gasoline. I'd call that a benefit.
This benefits people that don't have a garage to park their car. Such as people that rent their home or apartment, or people that live in old neighborhoods that don't have the wiring for an electric car. Not likely much of an issue in much of the USA but there are places in Europe with very old wiring that is making electric car use a problem.
You're right that there are lots of things where trying to cram the appropriate amount of energy into a battery just won't work. That said, passenger cars seem to work pretty well.
That's great. I'm simply making my prediction. If you don't agree then fine by me.
And passenger cars produce lots of pollutants--especially when you have a few million of them in an enclosed area. Replacing a bunch of ICEs with batteries and electric motors isn't a bad thing.
Synthesized fuels will still mean CO2 is produced at the tailpipe, it's just that
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I see youâ(TM)re being modded down by the crowd who has never shopped at Walmart and seen what's in the parking lot.
I was thinking more that I was getting moderated down by people that are unable or unwilling to do the math on figuring out how much mass in batteries it would take to replace the fuel carried in a typical plane, train, or automobile.
A Tesla Model S has as much mass as a Ford F-150. Similar cars in this class with a gas engine weigh in nearly a tonne lighter. The energy density of diesel fuel, jet fuel, or gasoline, is 100 times more than that of a lithium-ion battery. Maybe we can argue on the exact dif
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Slashdot just has a hard-on for EVs. practicality be damned. I have nothing against them so long as they're competing in the market fairly. If someone chooses to buy one, it should be because the car fits their budget and their needs, not because Uncle Sam helped pay for it (and we know where that money comes from), and certainly not because environmental regulations demand it.
As an electric car owner... (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking as the owner of an electric car and proponent thereof: I'll believe it when I see it. The European manufacturers have been talking a big, big electric car game for the last 5-7 years and other than BMW have done exactly zipkies. Prototypes, plans, magazine cover: sure. Actual cars on the road? That is Tesla, GM, Nissan, and BMW. The rest is, so far, just hot air. And not enough hot air to power a Sterling Cycle engine either - just enough to be annoying.
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Speaking as the owner of an electric car and proponent thereof: I'll believe it when I see it. The European manufacturers have been talking a big, big electric car game for the last 5-7 years and other than BMW have done exactly zipkies.
now now, Audi has done just slightly more than that, though it's really still quite close to fuck-all.
I think the Germans really will wind up going all-EV, though, because they obviously can't resist the urge to constantly cheat on emissions tests for ICEVs. (Along with their primary tier 1 supplier, Bosch.)
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What talk? Just because you imagine that they have doesn't mean it is so. Who has promised cars on the road for 5-7 years without delivering?
Re:As an electric car owner... (Score:4, Informative)
Renault (Zoe), Jaguar (I-Pace), VW (e-Golf), Audi (e-tron), Mercedes (various), Peugeot (208e). All in production today.
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Volvo EV XC40 will be released next month.
Re:As an electric car owner... (Score:4, Informative)
Renault have been selling the Zoe almost as long as Nissan have been selling the Leaf. The VW ID.3 is due soon too, pre-production models demonstrated and most importantly price confirmed. Actually VW have had the eGolf for years now too, and I think they do an eUp as well. The eGolf is actually quite good.
Jaguar have the i-Pace, they are still European for now.
free electricity for a year, (Score:2)
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Really free electricity , is Thor going to electrify them with his magical powers?
Someone will pay for the electricity. This is marketing goofiness that zaps credibility.
Indeed, due to the PG&E ongoing train wreck in slow motion, electricity prices are about to get a whole lot higher in CA, esp. northern CA. Some say it will double.
If the car is expensive and the fuel ain't cheap...
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In Europe petrol is typically around 5x more expensive than electricity for cars. So the price would have to go up a hell of a lot to make it uncompetitive.
At which point everyone would be buying solar panels anyway.
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Less tax, parking, roads can be used.
Then a price of that extra big "tax" on internal combustion has to be considered.
So people buy a EV for the tax rate. Then a second internal combustion car for fun.
2X the cars and the gov gets less tax on the EV...
How will EU nations get back that loss of tax over the early years of EV?
Once enough people have been tempted in with low tax rates and "free" then the next gen of EV tax rates will set
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Once enough people have been tempted in with low tax rates and "free" then the next gen of EV tax rates will set in.
Every EU nation will go full EV tax. Power use tax, a distance tax, road tax...
Given that in many places road maintenance is funded by fuel taxes, if adoption of EVs become high enough they are going to have to shift that burden somehow for sure. The free ride won't last forever.
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free as; it's already included in the price of the car.
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In most places with hydropower or solar or wind, electricity from those sources costs between 1/10th and 1/20th the cost of fossil fuel for a vehicle.
Yes, it's magic.
The Invisible Hand crushing fossil fuels.
Ann Coulter (Score:1)
Is right