Huawei Has Now Been Cut Off By the SD Association, Wi-Fi Alliance (phonedog.com) 276
Both the SD Association and Wi-Fi Alliance have cut ties with Huawei following President Trump's executive order barring companies from doing business with the Chinese company. PhoneDog reports: First up, Huawei has been removed the from the SD Association, a non-profit group that sets the standards for SD and microSD cards. Huawei's name has been removed from the organization's website, and the SD Association confirmed to Android Authority that it's complying with the recent executive order that placed Huawei on the Entity List. This news won't affect existing Huawei phones' ability to accept microSD cards, but the company declined to comment on the effect that it'll have on future models. It likely means that future Huawei devices won't be able to use microSD cards. Huawei does have its own Nano Memory Card format that it can use in its smartphones, though.
Meanwhile, the Wi-Fi Alliance has confirmed to Nikkei that it's "temporarily restricted" Huawei's participation in its activities. "Huawei values its relationships with all partners and associations around the world and understands the difficult situation they are in," Huawei said in response to this news. "We are hopeful this situation will be resolved and are working to find the best solution." Google and ARM also recently stopped working with Huawei. Earlier this week, ARM told staff it must suspend business with the company. Google also suspended business with Huawei that requires the transfer of hardware and software products, except those covered by open source licenses.
Meanwhile, the Wi-Fi Alliance has confirmed to Nikkei that it's "temporarily restricted" Huawei's participation in its activities. "Huawei values its relationships with all partners and associations around the world and understands the difficult situation they are in," Huawei said in response to this news. "We are hopeful this situation will be resolved and are working to find the best solution." Google and ARM also recently stopped working with Huawei. Earlier this week, ARM told staff it must suspend business with the company. Google also suspended business with Huawei that requires the transfer of hardware and software products, except those covered by open source licenses.
Et Cetera (Score:2)
Who's left? USB-IF? ITU-R? IEEE?
Huawei's CEO Ren Zhengfei saying "don't underestimate us, we will fight back" is the WRONG thing to say to our current president. I fully expect the book to get thrown at Ren, and he'll be forced to resign, possibly after eating his words.
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Our current *alleged* president is wuss. The rest of the world and in particular, the Chinese know it. This won't end well for America.
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Either I'm missing the joke or the trolls are missing their brains?
Anyway, I have seen lots of evidence supporting your position, but I want to be optimistic and hope America is still capable of recovery. It's just interesting that all the recent oscillations on the negative side seem to be under so-called Republican leadership. The Democratic Party may be feckless, but at least they aren't Republicans, eh?
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As Huawei already _has_ working G5 equipment, it would take going to G6 to remove them from the game. That is if they can be prevented from implementing it. They can stay compatible for a long time and, worst case effect, they may even be able to go ahead and _set_ the next standards and everybody has to follow. This whole thing is probably the worst idea the orange guy had yet.
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I googled this phrase for you so you can also do it and find references for yourself. It is a part of military education, not personal opinion. And definitely not any PC personal opinion.
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It's the opinion of a minority of thinkers, military and otherwise, and has been more and less popular throughout history. Anybody with any meaningful education, military or otherwise, will have heard it from a variety of sources. That doesn't mean every military person is dumb enough to buy it.
It was a more popular idea 500 years ago.
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You're starting with 'The last thing the military of any country wants ' and ending with 'sane military people know it'. You're not entirely wrong, military people can sometimes bring sanity in a heated situation, but really, you need get up to date on how bad the War State has become.
From this (very worthwhile) article https://www.theamericanconserv... [theamerica...vative.com]
America: Bully to the world (Score:2, Insightful)
Oversight (Score:2)
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Actually, it is creating yet another dangerous precedent, which will at some point be used by anyone who thinks they are strong enough to get away with it. Who knows what will happen, maybe in 10 or 20 years a US company will be on the receiving end of it all.
Bullying is always a bad strategy, and the worst time to apply is when you're trying to prop up the loss of your ability to compete.
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Nice... (Score:5, Interesting)
Lots of proof of spying (Score:2)
Problem is that the proof is pointing the wrong way. Just reading another book about the stuff that Snowden revealed. Our spy services know exactly what sort of dirty tricks they can pull.
Having said that, I think Huawei has to be clean, at least in the hardware. The Huawei people KNOW that ANY device they make could be used as evidence against them, and they KNOW that EVERY device they make is going to get lots of deep scrutiny from security experts all over the world.
Really ? (Score:2, Informative)
OpenSSL was chuck full of exploitable bugs for something like 15 years. Each exploitable bug was a full backdoor to obtain the SSL keys and intercept the traffic in plaintext from that point on.
Same is true for the crap code inside Huawei products. The Chinese know the concept of "plausible denial", too.
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Nope. You have no clue how that works. There may have been some things that were exploitable as backdoors under the right conditions, but that is it. Also, OpenSSL is a crypto library. It does not do networking by itself.
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Having said that, I think Huawei has to be clean, at least in the hardware. The Huawei people KNOW that ANY device they make could be used as evidence against them, and they KNOW that EVERY device they make is going to get lots of deep scrutiny from security experts all over the world.
I expect that as well. Oh, sure, there will be things that can be inserted for special customers (like the NSA does it) and there will be known vulnerabilities that the usual TLAs do not tell to anybody. But that is it. They will most certainly not insert backdoors intentionally or lower security intentionally, quite unlike, say, Cisco. Because catching them in that would be far too easy and the evidence would be far too compelling.
Re:Nice... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. The retaliation from China is going to pretty severe. It will be interesting to see just how badly they can screw American companies, now that the US has demonstrated its capability.
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Indeed. And I think quite a few people understand this and this may just be one reason the EU does not go along with the US in this.
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IMO China should retaliate by banning any American telco equipment company (Cisco, Juniper, HP Networking, Motorola Solutions etc) from doing any form of business in China or with any Chinese company or entity. That would mean not just a ban on the sale and use of equipment from those firms (and their subsidiaries and related companies) in China but also a ban on any manufacturing of equipment from those entities in factories in China as well as purchasing any products made by or sold by companies that are
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I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. The retaliation from China is going to pretty severe. It will be interesting to see just how badly they can screw American companies, now that the US has demonstrated its capability.
Just one shoe? ... if this goes on you'll get Imelda Marcos' entire shoe collection dropping on your head. Trump is like the school bully that just spitballed the new kid in school, not knowing that the new kid in school used to be the bully at his old school.
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The only motivation behind this campaign against Huawei is that they got 'uppity' enough to out-compete US corporations who then went to 'Tariff Man' for protection.
I don't think that US corporations asked for this. From what I see, US corporations in the tech industry are pretty worried about it.
Potential (Score:4, Informative)
I'd say, publicly at least, this is about the *potential* for spying.
Privately, this is more about Huawei's systemically awful business practices. When they were first getting into the backbone business, they'd have people working at Ericson and Nokia feeding them RFQs from prospective customers, then they'd send salesmen to those customers with quotes half as much. It didn't matter what the equipment or service actually cost, the Chinese government was funding everything and selling at a loss just to get in the door. They've been busted multiple times for this, but nobody at corporate gets into trouble (or if they do they are rotated into different positions.)
https://www.voanews.com/a/huaw... [voanews.com]
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IMO this is mostly about the trade negotiations with China. If this were actually about spying then Trump wouldn't have offered to include Huawei in the trade deal [bbc.co.uk].
You don't do that if they're a threat to national security.
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Very worrying (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Very worrying (Score:5, Insightful)
This. No matter if there's actually a really good reason for doing this (of which evidence haven't even been shared with close allies) it'll just accelerate the movement towards truly international standards that can't be controlled by one state. This doesn't strengthen the US, it weakens it.
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Not international. China's the manufacturing leader. We could easily be looking at two incompatible world economies growing from this, especially in the developing nations where China is dominating trade growth. We could be left with the short end of the stick.
But, it really appears that that is what Trump wants. He's proving himself to be an isolationist who is just pretending to bargain while destroying trade trust forever. The damage will achieve his real goal no matter who is elected after him.
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(of which evidence haven't even been shared with close allies)
You may or may not be correct, but you have no fucking idea either way.
Re:Very worrying (Score:5, Insightful)
Time to move all standards bodies out of the US. We already had to move a bunch of conferences because of travel visa problems.
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The next thing will probably be crypto conferences. Bruce Schneier recently remarked that cryptographers are getting denier entry with no good rasons given. Apparently some people are unaware that academic crypto is not behind the NSA anymore and that much of it is not happening in the US. AES, for example, is from a Belgian team.
Re: Very worrying (Score:2)
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The US can say who is allowed into the USA. All part of been a nation.
The same with the tech that is used in any nation.
For any reason they want
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You should be careful what you wish for, as your wishes may be granted.
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If US can then Saudi Arabia or Indonesia can too, no?
No. Not unless there are any industry standard organizations headquartered in Saudi Arabia or Indonesia and thus subject -- as an organization -- to their laws. (The SD Association is headquartered in California, and the Wi-Fi Alliance in Texas.)
This is nothing new (Score:3)
My gov't threatened to cut off all trade with the nation. Essentially an economic blockage.
And all this Huawei stuff is kinda
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It bodes ill for entire world that US can expel corporations from industry standardization organizations with an executive order. If US can then Saudi Arabia or Indonesia can too, no?
No, I don't think Saudi Arabia or Indonesia can, because they don't have enough important companies.
You should understand the mechanism and rationale behind these expulsions. It's not that the US ordered these standards bodies to kick Huawei out. That's the effect, but the process is more subtle, and not completely obvious.
The problem is that US corporations are no longer allowed to give information to Huawei. This would seem to include representatives of US companies who are participating in interna
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Re: Very worrying (Score:2)
No, they cannot.
I hope (Score:5, Insightful)
everyone will now remember, at least for a while, that the US is not a reliable partner. Of course, many will probably go âwhatever, canâ(TM)t happen to my country/businessâ.
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No, I think this will have lasting power. It isn't that that asshole has made the U.S. unreliable for a bit, it is that a sizable portion of the American electorate think this is a good idea. The feeling that the U.S. is not going to be reliable will last for a long time.
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Just as an external observer, the US has been viewed as an unreliable partner for a long time now.
The deals to access resources have always been very one sided (US wants extradition from other countries, won't reciprocate etc. and their trade deals are plain ludicrous, often along those same lines of reciprocation).
The contemporary world is quite a turbulent place though, so it's anyone's guess as to how the past agreements will pan out, especially if China can produce the same resources at the same qualit
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I think that decisions like this are dangerous, since we're just going to end up with a bunch of new Chinese tech products that aren't regulated by standards bodies.
The next generation Huawei phones and tablets aren't going to just stop having Wi-Fi because of this, even though it cannot have the Wi-Fi logo on the box. Will Huawei's "Wi-Fi compatible" wireless potentially cause interference with other wireless products? Possibly. Will the US try to stop them from being imported? Probably. Will they end up g
Damn communists! (Score:2)
workaround (Score:2)
Sounds like the Chilean grape scare. (Score:2)
All over again :(
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
America has too much power... (Score:2)
...when they can point their finger at a company/competitor and tell the world not to trade with them, all with no significant evidence.
WMD wearing a new outfit...
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Who knows what target Orange Man will choose next.
You talk like Trump is god.
China can retaliate to this, no problem. I wonder what a month of no Chinese goods arriving at US borders would do to the US economy.
They could also stop accepting all the toxic garbage the USA produces, let it pile up on US soil (I bet Trump could keep that out of the news though and it wouldn't appear on the radar of most people),
Re:Commercia dealings with America are just too ri (Score:4, Interesting)
A month without Chinese goods including materials like sheet steel etc will hurt the US economy a lot. However despite a number of dislocations; plant closures, layoffs, empty shelves in some sections of Walmarts etc.. The sky won't fall. On the other hand, China in itself with huge manufacturing over hang, already headed into a slow down with limitited social safety nets etc would become a mess!
Those plants (that are not state run) will have to halt, massive numbers of workers will be left jobless in China's cities all clustered tightly in one place not spread around the nation like ours. It will foul up the big bets on Chinese real estate that oligarchs have made, and likely force the government to dilute the yuan again. That dilution will in turn get them in trouble with the WTO and threaten their trade relations with their other trade partners.
No a trade war with China is good opportunity for American security, and this is probably our last best opportunity to check Chinese power using something other than arms.
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You wanna check in with Orange Man. The latest is that Huawei COULD be part of trade deal. So, it has nothing to do with U.S. security, only Orange Man's security with his base.
Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:2, Insightful)
And? So what why he says he is doing it? We have been in a trade war with China for 20-30 years but only fighting back for less than a year.
And how do you know a final trade agreement will not include verifiable enforcement of Huawei not sending us spy laden crap anymore?
Are you privy to the inner workings of the trade negotiations? No. You know nothing.
Even if his reason to smash Huawei was because they are one of the biggest Chinese government pets and it hurts Chinese leadership, well, what is wrong w
Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too (Score:2)
Isn't that what the UK and Germany are attempting already, without resorting to a trade war. It seems you can do this directly with Huawei without any dealings with CCP. Iinm, they already offered/suggested as much.
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China's biggest chip to play is rare earth metals. But it's a dangerous gamble. Other sources are already being worked on by Japan and US. If China went with this, it would massively speed up those developments. China could then decide to go the military route and take the Jap sources as they are close and defensible. But yeah, that would end in big war, and not sure where the other countries would fit in.
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Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:2)
Re:Commercia dealings with America are just too ri (Score:4, Interesting)
China's total exports to the US, less than 5% of their GDP, represent less than one year of their GDP growth. They could lose all US exports and put US trade in their rearview mirror in less than a year.
Worse, it took us a long time to bring them into using international standards and protocols instead of rolling their own. Times are different now. If China starts going their own way on standards and protocols now that they are the world's largest manufacturer (even not counting US business), we risk splitting the world into two sets of incompatible standards. As they are the dominant exporter, devices manufactured using US-led standards and protocols could end up with the short end of the market, especially in the developing countries China shines in.
I suspect the Chinese are starting to realize that this trade war could represent an invitation to turn developing markets into Chinese-only consumers in mass while honestly saying that we were the ones that cut them off and made them do it. It could be the golden opportunity of the age for them.
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Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:2)
Not just the Chinese, tbh.
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China and America are economically very interdependent. American manufacturer's use Chinese parts. Chinese manufacturers use American designs, and make for the American market. A trade war would cripple them both.
Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:2)
American manufacturer's use Chinese parts. Chinese manufacturers use American designs
Sic
Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:2)
A trade war would cripple them both.
So you're not familiar with the concepts of assymetry and imbalance??
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I'm familiar with the expression "Cut off your nose to spite your face." I know that if I were president of the US, I'd put someone with economic training and background in charge of making trade decisions, and I wouldn't announce them on twitter.
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In particular, China can make sure that this cannot be done again to their larger companies. It is a forced tech evolution, but all it will do is to make them stronger. That is probably not going to end well.
Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:2)
...all it will do is to make them stronger
"Desperation is Strength!"
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Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:2)
China could fight fire with fire and retaliate in kind...
I suppose they could ban us from including fortunes in cookies... but are those even Chinese?
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China can retaliate to this, no problem. I wonder what a month of no Chinese goods arriving at US borders would do to the US economy.
China should forbid their companies from doing business with Walmart.
That would be funny to watch.
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Unfortunately, you are going to find out soon as it is already starting to happen. There is stockpiling going on now, but already the US supply chain is identifying alternate sources. There will be discomfort and inflation in the US. China will suffer much more. It will lose its best customer and supplier of food. What a waste.
>They could also stop accepting all the
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Fixed that for you. Think about which is more valuable, the cheap crap from China, or the cash the US pays for it. They would be hurting themselves as much, or more than they'd be hurting the US.
Trump is already 'borrowing' $1 trillion per year for the US economy via. his tax cuts for the wealthy scheme.
The Chinese could survive a month. All it takes is for their government to take action over stuff like Huawei.
Re:FTFY (Score:5, Interesting)
China can retaliate to this, no problem. I wonder what a month of no Chinese goods arriving at US borders would do to the CHINESE economy.
Fixed that for you. Think about which is more valuable, the cheap crap from China, or the cash the US pays for it. They would be hurting themselves as much, or more than they'd be hurting the US.
Don't underestimate China's willingness to put you in the ice box until you come back on their terms, even if it hurts them in the short term. They know Trump needs to win the 2020 election and they know how much his voter demographic depends on cheap crap from China at Wal-Mart, if Trump wants a trade war with China they'll make sure it hurts. The US owes China 1.2 trillion dollars, one month's lost exports would cost about 45 billion so in the short term it'd be much easier for China to burn money than for the US to find 45 billion worth of goods elsewhere. If you consider that the US has a 107% debt-to-GDP ration and China is at 48% on a 12.2 trillion dollar economy they could easily lend $5+ trillion dollar more if they had to.
That's really the problem in everything dealing with China, as much as we'd like to punish them for pollution and human rights violations and stealing IP and aggression in the South China sea and whatnot their economy runs well and is too big to be effectively punished because they'll just punish us back. Even when you know it's happening big companies would rather get a piece of that pie even though it's got poison in it. And from afar it has a certain ruthless efficiency to it, as long as you don't look too closely at the individuals they steamroll. They draw high speed rail lines the way European imperialists drew borders in Africa, all it takes is a map and a ruler. Just don't ask the Africans what they feel about it.
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China can retaliate to this, no problem. I wonder what a month of no Chinese goods arriving at US borders would do to the CHINESE economy.
Fixed that for you. Think about which is more valuable, the cheap crap from China, or the cash the US pays for it. They would be hurting themselves as much, or more than they'd be hurting the US.
Don't underestimate China's willingness to put you in the ice box until you come back on their terms, even if it hurts them in the short term. They know Trump needs to win the 2020 election and they know how much his voter demographic depends on cheap crap from China at Wal-Mart, if Trump wants a trade war with China they'll make sure it hurts. The US owes China 1.2 trillion dollars, one month's lost exports would cost about 45 billion so in the short term it'd be much easier for China to burn money than for the US to find 45 billion worth of goods elsewhere. If you consider that the US has a 107% debt-to-GDP ration and China is at 48% on a 12.2 trillion dollar economy they could easily lend $5+ trillion dollar more if they had to.
That's really the problem in everything dealing with China, as much as we'd like to punish them for pollution and human rights violations and stealing IP and aggression in the South China sea and whatnot their economy runs well and is too big to be effectively punished because they'll just punish us back. Even when you know it's happening big companies would rather get a piece of that pie even though it's got poison in it. And from afar it has a certain ruthless efficiency to it, as long as you don't look too closely at the individuals they steamroll. They draw high speed rail lines the way European imperialists drew borders in Africa, all it takes is a map and a ruler. Just don't ask the Africans what they feel about it.
So the US finally ran into somebody they can't bully into obedience? ... good.
Re: FTFY (Score:2)
Re: FTFY (Score:2)
...and they know how much his voter demographic depends on cheap crap from China at Wal-Mart
Pray tell, what do they depend* on it for??
*I don't think you grasp the definition of the word; we want their cheap junk and they depend on us continuing to want it
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Are you a fucking idiot or something? It's literally a Communist Dictatorship, with a President for life. It has gulags for political dissenters.
Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too (Score:3, Insightful)
That's how American governments portray every government it wants to get rid of...
True and utterly irrelevant as the Chinese gov't makes no attempt to hide the fact.
Re: Commercia dealings with America are just too r (Score:5, Insightful)
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Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a proper keyboard.
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But... It is extremely hypocritical to criticize the US over all this when nearly all its trading partners have been unfair for decades. It has always been risky or impossible for a US company to operate in China. Frankly almost all other countries find
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The world may wake up one day to an America that produces cheap goods of all kinds using robots, and needs nothing from the rest of the world.
I can't wait. By the time that happens though, the rest of the world will already have factories which produce cheap goods of all kinds using robots. In fact, Europe already has a lot of those.
It would be a good thing for the US to start catching up on that. Maybe this will be the kick in the behind needed for that to happen.
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Most EU states diverge from US in that our equity is overwhelmingly from banks. That's why the banking crisis shows no signs of abating to this day, and has just been swept under the rug with massive injections of money directly into the bank from central banks.
In US, most of the equity comes from stock markets. That's one of the reasons why their banking crisis didn't last all that long.
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If the risks are high, the rewards are great. There's absolutely ZERO chance any countries of significance will voluntarily stop doing business with the US, PERIOD.
Agreed, it would really take something like Trump to make them do it.
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... to see whar people in Germany, and even more so in the res of Europe think about this.
The consensus is almost unanimous: Don't do business with the US amymore, they are the number one on spying and it's way too risky. Trump is batshit insane, as is a country that manages to get such a leader and partially like him too. And imma getting me a Chinese device cause I got US bases, not Chinese bases, still in my country, and our political leader got spied on by the US and did not even have the power to tell them to GTFO. (And hopefully also never will.) So it's the US whose spying I fear more.
That is what they are saying.
Even EU leaders did oppuse Trump a few months ago when this started. This was unprecedented. They ALWAYS sucked up to the US, and called them "friends" before. Even after the NSA leaks.
So Trump literally manages what the NSA leaks couldn't! The US has officially lost the world.
Mind you, we're always talking about "media US". So politicians and propaganda. As opposed to the actual people of your country. There the old rule goes: Most people are just normal people, no matter the country.
It is the same here in Canada. America is no longer a reliable ally.
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I thought the Conservative campaign position is that we need to get on our knees to Trump, I mean support our allies.
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I thought the Conservative campaign position is that we need to get on our knees to Trump, I mean support our allies.
Even most of the Conservatives I know think Trump is a joke, but they do indeed still have greater loyalty to the US as a country for sure.
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Re: Look at German Heise forums... (Score:2)
Oh hey, look at what one forum who's members have no stake in anything are saying about something they can't actually do anything about besides blow hot air... yeah no thanks.
I'll get concerned about Germany when German industry stops trying to do as much business in the US as they can.
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My, my, the trolls are out in herds these days. I'm just so deeply moved and offended. Or maybe it's just a touch of constipation?
Re: Trump (Score:2)
Except those standards bodies can revoke license, and sue them in every country they ship products to, asking for import embargoes. And guess what, they'll get them.
Revocation of WiFi is a pretty big deal. SD not so much, as most phone manufacturers are dumping the SD slot anyway.