Elizabeth Warren Calls For a National Right-to-Repair Law for Tractors (vice.com) 243
Massachusetts Senator and Democratic Presidential hopeful Elizabeth Warren has become the highest profile politician to support right to repair legislation in the United States. From a report: On Wednesday, Warren outlined a sweeping plan to support family farms and diminish the power of corporate agriculture. At the top of the list, she supports a national right-to-repair law for tractors and other agricultural equipment. That means she supports the simple idea that people who own a tractor should be able to repair it without permission from John Deere or any other manufacturer. "Farmers should be able to repair their own equipment or choose between multiple repair shops," Warren said in a Medium post outlining her proposal. "That's why I strongly support a national right-to-repair law that empowers farmers to repair their equipment without going to an authorized agent." For now, Warren's proposal would apply only to farm equipment, not consumer electronics.
[...] Farmers operating John Deere tractors have been fighting against John Deere's repair monopoly for years. Device manufacturers don't want people repairing their own stuff and they've taken pains to make it difficult to do so. Newer John Deere equipment comes loaded with software and firmware that make it impossible for farmers to fix their own equipment. Instead, they have to call an authorized dealer and wait for them to show up -- a fix that's too slow and too costly for a farmer. "The national right-to-repair law should require manufacturers of farm equipment to make diagnostic tools, manuals, and other repair-related resources available to any individual or business, not just their own dealerships and authorized agents," Warren said. "This will not only allow individuals to fix their own equipment -- reducing delays -- but it will also create competition among dealers and independent repair shops, bringing down prices overall." Further reading: Grandson of Legendary John Deere Inventor Calls Out Company On Right To Repair.
[...] Farmers operating John Deere tractors have been fighting against John Deere's repair monopoly for years. Device manufacturers don't want people repairing their own stuff and they've taken pains to make it difficult to do so. Newer John Deere equipment comes loaded with software and firmware that make it impossible for farmers to fix their own equipment. Instead, they have to call an authorized dealer and wait for them to show up -- a fix that's too slow and too costly for a farmer. "The national right-to-repair law should require manufacturers of farm equipment to make diagnostic tools, manuals, and other repair-related resources available to any individual or business, not just their own dealerships and authorized agents," Warren said. "This will not only allow individuals to fix their own equipment -- reducing delays -- but it will also create competition among dealers and independent repair shops, bringing down prices overall." Further reading: Grandson of Legendary John Deere Inventor Calls Out Company On Right To Repair.
Don't politicize common sense! (Score:5, Interesting)
Darn it!
Now this very practical bit of needed legislation will become politicized. Republicans will oppose it as a knee jerk reaction and Trump will create an agency or executive order banning all aftermarket repairs.
This is not an anti Republican post. Both sides do this with every thing. As an independent I'm thoroughly sick of it.
Re:Don't politicize common sense! (Score:5, Interesting)
Darn it!
Now this very practical bit of needed legislation will become politicized. Republicans will oppose it as a knee jerk reaction and Trump will create an agency or executive order banning all aftermarket repairs.
They can't though. The only 2 things more American than farmers are coal miners and the NRA. Farmers have already been hurt by the trade war Trump started with China, and steps he took to try and make it up have so far fallen short. And really, it's a good tactic. If she can get the Republicans to go with it (because they don't want to be seen as going against farmers) and get it into law, then it is a foothold for RtR to spread to other areas as well.
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Uh, no. My family are "farmers". Soybean prices dipped but have recovered to the price prior to the China trade issue. Many farmers just silo'd the soybeans until later in the year and sold them then.
Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/2531/soybean-prices-historical-chart-data
The right to repair issue IS a big deal to farmers, but, just like everything that comes out of most politicians, it is likely to be a broken campaign promise. However, I do welcome the attention brought to the issue, even if apparentl
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Right to repair was in the past a very bi-partisan issue. In fact there is already legislation requiring it for automobiles that covered tractors in the past. But under the Bush admin when Republicans controlled congress they wrote an exception for Tractors into the law after Deere funneled a bunch of money into Congress. Now Republicans are trying to defend this exception to keep the Deere money flowing even though their constituents want the exception ended.
Deere created this exception and I have no doubt
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You have to get to that point, first. Currently there are user agreements , shrink wrap equivalents, hacking laws, copyright laws, and other things stacking up to block repairs as if it was a copy of Office.
It's perfectly fine for Congress to declare this a misuse of these laws.
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It's a good notion and, on its face, simple. In fact, it is so simple that there is no reason for legislation supporting the notion to be more than a single page. Single paragraph, even. Unfortunately, legislation and simplicity are incompatible. So, what I'm opposed to is a complicated regulation that is ultimately going to come with a cost that prices small businesses out of the market, stifling innovation. If, however, the scope were only tractors, or the only requirement with such regulation were to pro
Forget tractors! (Score:3)
Forget tractors!
There needs to be a right to repair Politicians!
Re:Forget tractors! (Score:5, Funny)
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I prefer my politicians disposable with build in obsolescence.
It's called "Term Limits" and we need them for congress...
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Start petitioning among the states and Article V it. That's the only way it'll get done.
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There needs to be a right to repair Politicians!
There is. The repair is performed by voting.
My dad had this problem (Score:2)
Visions of Michael Dukakis on a tank (Score:2)
Just kidding. Sen. Warren's too smart to go sit on a tractor (I hope).
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Just kidding. Sen. Warren's too smart to go sit on a tractor (I hope).
Your hopes will be dashed: I'm gonna have me a beer! [youtube.com]
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Oh, good grief.
"I'm just like you. I drink beer after a hard day hammering my political opponents."
It's like if she took a DNA test to prove she has Native American ancestry. At least she hasn't done that yet. /s
As a sitting US Senator (Score:5, Insightful)
Why doesn't she put forth legislation to that effect? If she waits till elected President, she'll have to convince someone in either chamber of Congress to put the bill forward.
She's not helpless, she needs to step up.
Re:As a sitting US Senator (Score:5, Insightful)
1)Give a tax cut to the rich
2)Install a conservative judge
Then Mitch McConnell won't even bring it up for a vote.
Except when he does (Score:3)
He brought the Green New Deal up for a vote [senate.gov].... and the vote [govtrack.us] to limit the national emergency powers of the President.
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He brought the Green New Deal up for a vote
That was a trick! You see even though the democrats sponsored and support the GND they didn't intend to vote on it.
The best part of that was Mike Lee. Reagon on a dinosaur, TaunTauns, Aquaman, and the "documentary" Sharknado 4 are forever part of congressional history.
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For the national emergency vote, that was legally required to have a floor vote in the Senate once it was approved by the House (also works the other way around). Not a whole lot of credit due for actually following your own laws.
Sounds good but... (Score:2)
if modern tractors are anything like modern cars they are full of computers. Modern cars require really expensive computer diagnostic equipment that makes it impractical to repair them on your own. What her proposal might do though is open it up to 3rd party repair shops that could do it a lot cheaper than the dealer would.
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Visiting a friend of ours who is a farmer in eastern Washington I learned a lot about this issue.
1) Farmers who make it are not dumb, in fact they usually can fix anything because either they have the tools, or their neighbors do. Farmers help each other out. By the way this is as simple as changing a part with bolts on it. Not just the fancy software. But right now you can't do this.
2) Farmers can't wait for the repair man to show up. It can take a couple of weeks and this is suicide for a farmer.
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It is really expensive computer diagnostic equipment only because the manufacturer is trying to control the repair market. Modern engines are run by computers that know a lot about what is going right and what is going wrong, without any outside guidance. Simple error codes or status codes should be sufficient.
In most cases, an experienced mechanic could figure out what needs to be replaced even without the aid of a computer, by observing what does not work or listening to the engine.
But your John Deere c
Get Your Tractors off Our Lawn` (Score:2)
Any politics involving tractors always reminds me of British PM John Major's bizarre "Get Your Tractors Off Our Lawn" speech and makes me smile.
I like Warren (Score:2)
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>Warren gets more done she,like a lot of Democrats
Except for when it comes to voting on their own proposals. Then all of the sudden they can't be bothered to do the only job they have to do which is to vote yea or nay.
>the other side isn't negotiating in good faith
Right. I believe the side that put forward the ACA that was designed to fail so that single payer medicare for all would be put in its place. That's good faith politics.
>I want Warren and the whole of the Dems to stop reaching across the
Very Naive (Score:2)
The reality is farmers own their machines less and less. Outside of simple tractors they are too complex and too expensive. Combines today are processing plants on wheels. Pass this and they will just stop selling altogether and only lease.
You want things opened up give manufacturers immunity from liability. Manufacturers don't care about few hundred dollars in service work. The dealer gets most of that anyway. They care about a multi-million dollar lawsuit because some idiot bypassed the safety lock and gr
Just make an DMCA exemptions so hosting leeked (Score:2)
Just make an DMCA exemptions so hosting leaked software for repair / restore images is 100% legal.
Why just farm equipment? (Score:2)
Why the f--- do we no longer have the right to repair something we bought?
What nation wide law was passed that took that right away?
What's next, bread that we aren't allowed to slice?
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Thank you.
I hate that it is allowed to be so, not seeing terms during the buying process is allowed to be binding.
Thank you supreme court, I can always count on your honesty, much like congress.
Right to repair is the wrong way to do it (Score:5, Insightful)
The advantage is that a right to repair law can be challenged on the grounds that it's violating the manufacturer's right to offer its products for sale in whatever fashion it sees fit. If you do it my way, companies can still do what John Deere does with tractors, or Epson does with chipped printer cartridges, or Apple does with iPhones. But if they elect to do it that way, then the purchase essentially becomes a lease - the lessee gets use of the product, but the lessor is responsible for the maintenance and repair costs (not always obvious, but if your leased car breaks down and is too expensive to repair, you can just walk away from the lease and leave the car company to eat the loss on their broken product, not you). And the legal framework for leases is very well established so is unlikely to be overturned by a court challenge.
Basically, don't set up a confrontation between the buyer's right to repair and the seller's right to design a product as they see fit. Instead, channel products which come without restrictions on the owner into purchases, while products where the manufacturer retains control over after possession is transferred to the "buyer" become leases.
There are restrictions. (Score:2)
You can design anything you like but you can't necessarily sell it. Specifically products have to comply with the FCC and UL just a name a couple groups of regulations.
An anti-obsolescence law against waste would be very American. And it would strengthen the security of the country. Products do need minimum standards.
Uh huh. Under what time frame? (Score:5, Insightful)
Farmer Bill: Hey, John Deere, my tractor broke down. I need it fixed ASAP as the window for planting in Spring 2019 is closing.
John Deere: Sure, Bill, no problem. We'll get your tractor fixed at no charge - in time for the 2020 planting season.
Farmer Bill: I can't wait that long! If I can't plant my crop in time I'll lose my farm.
John Deere: We're happy to help. If you fork over $25,000 we'll get it fixed by Easter. $65,000 for expedited service if you want it by the weekend. Have a nice day!
Re:Uh huh. Under what time frame? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you can mandate 10 year warranties, you can mandate free replacements while your tractor is being serviced. You are leasing, not buying.
The only tractor in America is (Score:4, Interesting)
they have to call an authorized dealer and wait for them to show up -- a fix that's too slow and too costly for a farmer.
Why do they insist on buying John Deere tractors then? Isn't this where the invisible hand of the free market makes consumers prefer tractors that CAN be repaired on site by anyone, and where John Deere goes out of business because it can't sell tractors any more? I'm sure Ford or Massey or Tracto Universal or any of a hundred other tractor manufacturers wouldn't mind the extra business. There's something fishy here if a law is required.
Re:The only tractor in America is (Score:4, Informative)
They have patents and aggressive lawyers, you probably can't build a competing tractor for a long time.
Don't stop there (Score:2)
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Because politics: Warren is generally weak amongst farmers and needs to signal to them specifically.
Re:why limit it to tractors (Score:4, Interesting)
Polls of Iowa voters show Warren beating Donald Trump in a head-to-head election. Let me repeat: IOWA voters.
On the other hand, Iowa Democratic voters put her 4th or 5th among other Democrats. It appears Iowa really doesn't want the Republican incumbent to win again. The trade war has hurt a lot of them, badly.
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No.
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These the same pollers that showed Hillary winning 2016?
Yea, the same ones who where actually within the margin of error for the most part, just skewed about 3% across the board.
It was the punditry who where saying Hillary would win, who ignored the MOE's and over stated the level of certainty the polls had.
However, I will say that any polls at this point are not worth the paper they are printed on for anything. We are still 19 months out. A whole lot of stuff is going to happen between now and then that will drive the polls. Warren won't survive the third
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fivethirtyeight.com did a good job on the poll analysis. Somewhat simplified, before the 2016 election they were saying: Clinton is clearly ahead in the polls, but the amount she is ahead by is about the same as the typical polling error (i.e. when after the election we compare average-of-polls to actual-votes-cast.) This means there are three roughly equally probable outcomes: 1/3 probability, the polls are close to being correct, and Clinton wins. 1/3 probability the polls are significantly out, underesti
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Right to repair isn't a bad idea nonetheless.
If people can't repair their own stuff it actually leads to dumbing down of society in general.
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Also, why is she calling for a law? She's in Congress, she can actually propose legislation. Talk is cheap.
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Re:why limit it to tractors (Score:5, Informative)
Re:why limit it to tractors (Score:5, Insightful)
Not even red states, this is targeted strictly at Iowa, and PR stunts like this aren't restricted to any one party or candidate. It's fairly insane that Iowa and NH have such outsized influences in the American political process.
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Not even red states, this is targeted strictly at Iowa, and PR stunts like this aren't restricted to any one party or candidate. It's fairly insane that Iowa and NH have such outsized influences in the American political process.
Whenever states try to advance their primaries to have more influence, they get shot down by the national party, who does not want some regional issue deciding the national candidate, which could hurt the national chances.
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It would be just desserts for the Democrats if somehow they got the Constitution changed, forcing the Republicans to fight tooth and nail in the "very blue" giant states, that they have largely given up on.
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Nobody is trying to change the Constitution. Instead, States are passing laws that say that once enough States pass the same law so that it adds up to enough electoral votes to win the election, then the law goes into effect and those States agree to assign all their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote.
Simple, easy, no Amendment needed. This is coming. Probably not this cycle. But it is coming.
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It's not about winning Iowa in the general election. It's about winning or placing well in the Iowa Democrat caucus. There are currently eighteen candidates seeking the nomination. If all of them make it to the Iowa caucuses expect fourteen to sixteen of them to drop out shortly after the caucuses are held.
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Because she doesn't give a shit and is only trying to win points in red states. If she comes out with any idea Apple doesn't like they'll cut her down well before she has a chance to be completely destroyed in the primaries.
You ain't wrong.... Although I don't believe Apple has that much power alone... They could easily put together a coalition to torpedo her campaign though.
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Why would Warren care about red states? She knows they're chock full of morons happily marching into retarded and obvious dystopian bondage, at a traitor's command... It's like caring about Lemmings. Nah.
Warren cares about people who can think for themselves, not red state idiots marching to a fraud's lies, preying upon their overlarge amygdalas and fears of brown skin tones and other languages.
Because, the Iowa straw polls and the money they can bring... Come on, this is about the primary fight, at least at this point, and has nothing to do with the general. Don't forget, democrats in the Red States have quite a bit of say in who wins the nomination, so winning primaries in red states is a good thing even if you are a democrat.
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The real root of this problem is the government's protection of corporations via IP laws.
Agreed. But I imagine taking that on will be a gigantic challenge, with many more players coming out against it.
This might just be "chipping away at the problem". Start with stuff like farm equipment. If there's success there, maybe it can be broadened into other areas.
A complete guess on my part, though.
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she is still not white enough for you.
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David Duke jumped back to Democrat, he hates Donald Trump
Re:Right to repair != easy to repair (Score:4, Insightful)
If there was an obligation to make that material easily (though not necessarily freely) available, I think that's all we'd need.
Right-to-repair laws include exactly this. I would like to see it universal rather than only applicable to tractors.
In general, RTR laws include three provisions: availability of documentation, availability of parts (to anyone, not just vendor shops), and a rule against "lock out".
In this particular case, John Deere is well known for firmware lockouts that prevent new parts from working until they are authorized.
And don't let the corps BS you on this one either: US warranty laws ALREADY allow them to void warranties due to improper modifications. They are already protected from bad workmanship, and the issue is 100% distraction.
Re:Right to repair != easy to repair (Score:4, Insightful)
Wrong, it needs one more thing. It needs to be legalized.
It's currently illegal to repair things that you own, if the manufacturer uses a technological measure to limit access (i.e. DRM). Until we repeal DMCA, a lot of everyone's common sense will remain legally incorrect. It's a corrupt law, purely motivated by corruption and nothing else.
I'd ask Warren, though, why tractors are a special case.
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I'd ask Warren, though, why tractors are a special case.
I have it on good authority that she thinks someone's tractor is sexy.
But really, how else is one of the four horsemen of liberals going to pick up some of the rural, conservative vote? Medicade for all might help, but a LOT of small town farmers have gotten screwed by crap like this, and it may well resonate with them. I think it's a good idea on her part - she's trying to be the champion of the little people, and this is definitely an area where giant corporations are being very abusive.
Seems right in her
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Instead, what would be nice are full blown service manuals that detail how to dismantle, how to probe, a BOM, and so on.
That's adequate until you need to reflash some device's firmware, and the device won't accept the flash without it having been signed by the manufacturer's private key. Also, repair manuals are easily obtainable from the manufacturer for a lot of things, but they're not cheap. 20 years ago, the service manuals for my car were available from GM for the low, low price of $300. I shudder
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I don't think technological progress should be slowed down by prohibition to repair laws [cornell.edu].
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Goodby yellow brick road (Score:2)
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You do realize that Sanders cannot spend his campaign money on anything except campaigning?
Campaigns are required to report on how they spend their campaign money. I'm too lazy to chase down examples right now, but my observation is that both parties have messed up handling or reporting of campaign money from time to time. They have to fix the problem and possibly pay a fine. But the point is, candidates cannot do whatever they want with campaign money.
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Did you seriously just reference a fox story? What next the weekly world news? CNN?
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Hey at least it wasn't a link to breitbart or 8chan.
You know, Fox is respectable fake news.
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"Sorry you are so fucking stupid that you don't realize whatever news outlet you use has outright lied to you for two years and I guess you still believe them."
No, I'm just not stupid enough to believe there is one that doesn't lie. The problem with the liberal media post Trump is that they've become more like Fox which has never had problems lying not only through omission but with outright false reporting all along.
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Story [foxnews.com] that says differently. AOC stole $1 million out of her campaign and pocketed it for personal use, hasn't been charged.
You're grossly mischaracterizing the Fox News story. Here's what it actually says:
- Saikat Chakrabarti (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez' chief of staff) transferred $885,000 from two PACs to two LLCs he controls.
- Such transfers (even large ones) are not uncommon.
- The PACs claimed the transfers were for "strategic consulting".
- The complaint (and that's all it is right now) alleges that this was an attempt to dodge FEC reporting requirements.
- The complaint was filed by the National Legal and Policy Center, a Vir
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Liberal breaks law, other liberals give pass..
See Somollett in Chicago. One rule for them, another for you.
News at 11.
Anthony Weiner, Al Franken, Rod Blagojevich, John Conyers, and so on ... all were urged to resign by their fellow Democrats.
Ditto for the two guys in Virginia, although they have refused to leave (yet).
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[cite needed]
And don't link to fake news sites, please.
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Something only possible because of laws that discriminate against her racially.
That is like striking someone's hand when they are about to pull the trigger. Sometimes you have to commit a small evil to prevent a greater miscarriage of justice. Our founders did that when they rebelled against England. Granted, the severity is less than either of those two examples but nonetheless she committed a small offense to prevent a great one.
I would think most sane people identify as black women on any forms these da
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Race is an artificial concept determined by self-identification because there is no definition. She didn't lie because you can't lie whatever box you check is what you are legally speaking.
Are you really claiming there is an option out there who hasn't done far worse than this? Seriously is that really the best dirt they can come up with to disparage the woman who spearheaded banking reform and is the reason you don't pay hundreds in overdraft fees because the bank reordered transactions when you really had
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Also, it is worth pointing out that technically you can't lie about those things. Race is literally defined as what you identify as legally. That was firmly established because many Hispanic Puerto Ricans identify as white and there aren't actually legitimate definitions for race.
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Basing policies on something you can't even define is immoral not checking a box to get around the immoral policies.
Re: What can't they do? (Score:2)
True. but it is easier finding the error if you have the right interface and software.
After having my type-r at the official dealer 3 times and $2000 later without them actually being able to fix my ac which only worked for 10 minutes after starting the car, I managed to diagnose it in 20 minutes using the repair manual and a the official interface and software myself. (Worm down clutch basic really)
I wonder how long it would have taken them not to fix it. I gave he idiots a detailed description and asked t
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True. but it is easier finding the error if you have the right interface and software.
After having my type-r at the official dealer 3 times and $2000 later without them actually being able to fix my ac which only worked for 10 minutes after starting the car, I managed to diagnose it in 20 minutes using the repair manual and a the official interface and software myself. (Worm down clutch basic really)
I wonder how long it would have taken them not to fix it. I gave he idiots a detailed description and asked them to drive it for 20 minutes afterwards to test it out.
Iâ(TM)ll just leave the name here for google to index. It was Henrik Larsen Automobiler now called P. Christensen. Overpriced wankers.
Lots of shops have limited expertise. They are just parts-changers. It's rough on the consumers.
The article mentioned service manuals were available but did not mention diagnostic tools. There is a big difference between diagnostics and ECU modding/reflashing. Some speed shops do it, like http://www.ivansperformancepro... [ivansperfo...oducts.com] . I'm planning to do this for one of my rides, but it definitely voids the warranty.
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Why would you ever take a car to a dealership for non-warranty service?
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I hoped they could fix the problem so I didn’t have to fix it myself. Clearly I was wrong.
I retrospect I also remember that I paid to have my disc brakes in back cleaned as I hadn’t been doing any track days for a while and they hadn’t been exercised enough. When I switched the tires two days later the metal rims that were on the car was rusted and completely stuck. They clearly hadn’t removed them to clean anything.
Blah. Guess I learned my lesson the expensive way.
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Most stealerships have, at most, one or two competent techs. The rest are cheap (to them).
By 'reprogram' perhaps they mean 'reflash' (Score:2)
Your point stands, though. These right-to-repair laws need to be written sensibly. There are all sorts of dangerous scenarios if someone is allowed to freely poke around in firmware. And it is perfectly reasonable to insist on some level of training and certification for servicing certain sensitive parts.
The baseline standard should be that a sufficiently trained & certifie
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due to emissions regulations. Those regulations effectively require that to be the case.
Bullshit spill in the produce section
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Not sure when you were a mechanic, but ABS, Airbags, security, etc, etc usually require dealer diagnostic tools to reset warnings. Some stuff can be done with generic ODB tools, but many things can't. Add to that a tractor has a whole lot of hydraulic systems that a car doesn't, and there is a lot of scope for needing to be able to update settings held in the ECU or related control units.
I think you are confusing what they mean by "reprogram" (although plenty of places will do reprogramming of maps on ECUs, it often requires an aftermarked ECU anyway).
I've worked on all this. As I wrote, I do not know what the situation is with regards to tractor diagnostic tool availability from the manufacturer or aftermarket.
Reading live and freeze-frame diagnostics and resetting diagnostic codes is in no way "reprogramming". I think the article author is confused (or is deliberately confusing) the line is between legitimate diagnostic interaction and modding.
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You're simply wrong. When the government talks about reprogramming machines, it does include updating the settings. Don't confuse yourself with arguments about what you believe words are required to mean. Sometimes you have to learn that words mean different things in different situations.
And literally, when you clear a code, you're reprogramming the EEPROM values or something equivalent.
Regarding diagnostic tools, no, you're totally banned from having the tools currently, by manufacturer decree. There is n
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They all 'get it'. They just don't care. Sometimes a few decide to pretend to care thinking it will get them votes. Then when it's time to pay the piper, they reneg.
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Did she suggest or introduce legislation regarding this before announcing her desire to be president?
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She's been working for people and against Wall Street for years.
I'm still supporting Bernie in the primaries, because she still thinks capitalism is somehow functional. But she's one of the good ones.
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American capitalism is functional. Its just riddled with corruption because the foxes are guarding the henhouse, between the DOJ, SEC, and laws passed by Congress. The fault lies on the voters, because they have the power to remove politicians that are too brazenly deferential towards Wall Street.
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It's a smart move for her if she' s running in 2020. I actually find it shocking to see a candidate make an "appeal to the grass roots" move like this.
There's nothing shocking about this. Warren is currently campaigning in Iowa, announced this right to repair for tractors, and also announced a plan to target large agri-business like Tyson. These are all maneuvers to get her in the heads of Iowa caucus members. The caucus tend to result with all but two to four candidates dropping out. She may never bring it up again after Feb 3, 2020.
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It's shocking to me because it seems like every DC politician has forgotten that voters even exist, except to occasionally mock them. A candidate that actually campaigns? That doesn't act like she entitled to the office? It's a refreshing change, to be sure.
Re: I can see why she'd be a big tractor fan (Score:2)
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She will probably forget about all these ideas fast, should she get elected.
This is why we're screwed. Even when someone from the "other side" comes up with something you really like you cannot bring yourself to say anything positive at all. Enjoy your partisan hellhole.
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Well, you have either never seen this happening or you have not realized what was going on. I have seen this numerous times. Anybody that wants power on this level is corrupt and has no honor. No exceptions. So they will investigate what people want to hear, pick a group they think can give them a win and say anything tho please that group.
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She will probably forget about all these ideas fast, should she get elected.
That's being optimistic. She'll forget about it after Feb 3, 2020 with the Iowa caucuses over.
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Indeed.
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She's already committed to only accepting individual donations. Don't be a mean dunce.