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United States Software Hardware

Elizabeth Warren Calls For a National Right-to-Repair Law for Tractors (vice.com) 243

Massachusetts Senator and Democratic Presidential hopeful Elizabeth Warren has become the highest profile politician to support right to repair legislation in the United States. From a report: On Wednesday, Warren outlined a sweeping plan to support family farms and diminish the power of corporate agriculture. At the top of the list, she supports a national right-to-repair law for tractors and other agricultural equipment. That means she supports the simple idea that people who own a tractor should be able to repair it without permission from John Deere or any other manufacturer. "Farmers should be able to repair their own equipment or choose between multiple repair shops," Warren said in a Medium post outlining her proposal. "That's why I strongly support a national right-to-repair law that empowers farmers to repair their equipment without going to an authorized agent." For now, Warren's proposal would apply only to farm equipment, not consumer electronics.

[...] Farmers operating John Deere tractors have been fighting against John Deere's repair monopoly for years. Device manufacturers don't want people repairing their own stuff and they've taken pains to make it difficult to do so. Newer John Deere equipment comes loaded with software and firmware that make it impossible for farmers to fix their own equipment. Instead, they have to call an authorized dealer and wait for them to show up -- a fix that's too slow and too costly for a farmer. "The national right-to-repair law should require manufacturers of farm equipment to make diagnostic tools, manuals, and other repair-related resources available to any individual or business, not just their own dealerships and authorized agents," Warren said. "This will not only allow individuals to fix their own equipment -- reducing delays -- but it will also create competition among dealers and independent repair shops, bringing down prices overall."
Further reading: Grandson of Legendary John Deere Inventor Calls Out Company On Right To Repair.
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Elizabeth Warren Calls For a National Right-to-Repair Law for Tractors

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  • by sobachatina ( 635055 ) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:02PM (#58342934)

    Darn it!

    Now this very practical bit of needed legislation will become politicized. Republicans will oppose it as a knee jerk reaction and Trump will create an agency or executive order banning all aftermarket repairs.

    This is not an anti Republican post. Both sides do this with every thing. As an independent I'm thoroughly sick of it.

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:22PM (#58343084)

      Darn it!

      Now this very practical bit of needed legislation will become politicized. Republicans will oppose it as a knee jerk reaction and Trump will create an agency or executive order banning all aftermarket repairs.

      They can't though. The only 2 things more American than farmers are coal miners and the NRA. Farmers have already been hurt by the trade war Trump started with China, and steps he took to try and make it up have so far fallen short. And really, it's a good tactic. If she can get the Republicans to go with it (because they don't want to be seen as going against farmers) and get it into law, then it is a foothold for RtR to spread to other areas as well.

    • Right to repair was in the past a very bi-partisan issue. In fact there is already legislation requiring it for automobiles that covered tractors in the past. But under the Bush admin when Republicans controlled congress they wrote an exception for Tractors into the law after Deere funneled a bunch of money into Congress. Now Republicans are trying to defend this exception to keep the Deere money flowing even though their constituents want the exception ended.

      Deere created this exception and I have no doubt

    • It's a good notion and, on its face, simple. In fact, it is so simple that there is no reason for legislation supporting the notion to be more than a single page. Single paragraph, even. Unfortunately, legislation and simplicity are incompatible. So, what I'm opposed to is a complicated regulation that is ultimately going to come with a cost that prices small businesses out of the market, stifling innovation. If, however, the scope were only tractors, or the only requirement with such regulation were to pro

  • by Pitawg ( 85077 ) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:02PM (#58342936)

    Forget tractors!
    There needs to be a right to repair Politicians!

  • Bought a Long Tractor because they were cheap and it was the same one the state of Virginia was using. When it inevitably broke down, he just plain couldn't get the parts to fix it, so it just sat out in the yard for several years, immovable. Not sure if he ever got rid of it.
  • Just kidding. Sen. Warren's too smart to go sit on a tractor (I hope).

    • Just kidding. Sen. Warren's too smart to go sit on a tractor (I hope).

      Your hopes will be dashed: I'm gonna have me a beer! [youtube.com]

      • Oh, good grief.

        "I'm just like you. I drink beer after a hard day hammering my political opponents."

        It's like if she took a DNA test to prove she has Native American ancestry. At least she hasn't done that yet. /s

  • by kenh ( 9056 ) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:30PM (#58343130) Homepage Journal

    Why doesn't she put forth legislation to that effect? If she waits till elected President, she'll have to convince someone in either chamber of Congress to put the bill forward.

    She's not helpless, she needs to step up.

    • by robinsonne ( 952701 ) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @03:42PM (#58343200)
      Because in the current Senate if it doesn't:
      1)Give a tax cut to the rich
      2)Install a conservative judge

      Then Mitch McConnell won't even bring it up for a vote.
      • He brought the Green New Deal up for a vote [senate.gov].... and the vote [govtrack.us] to limit the national emergency powers of the President.

        • He brought the Green New Deal up for a vote

          That was a trick! You see even though the democrats sponsored and support the GND they didn't intend to vote on it.

          The best part of that was Mike Lee. Reagon on a dinosaur, TaunTauns, Aquaman, and the "documentary" Sharknado 4 are forever part of congressional history.

        • McConnell brought the Green New Deal up for a vote so that he and friends could do a bit of grandstanding against. Will play well with the base but whether it will bite them in butt with other voters is up in the air.

          For the national emergency vote, that was legally required to have a floor vote in the Senate once it was approved by the House (also works the other way around). Not a whole lot of credit due for actually following your own laws.
  • if modern tractors are anything like modern cars they are full of computers. Modern cars require really expensive computer diagnostic equipment that makes it impractical to repair them on your own. What her proposal might do though is open it up to 3rd party repair shops that could do it a lot cheaper than the dealer would.

    • Visiting a friend of ours who is a farmer in eastern Washington I learned a lot about this issue.
      1) Farmers who make it are not dumb, in fact they usually can fix anything because either they have the tools, or their neighbors do. Farmers help each other out. By the way this is as simple as changing a part with bolts on it. Not just the fancy software. But right now you can't do this.
      2) Farmers can't wait for the repair man to show up. It can take a couple of weeks and this is suicide for a farmer.

    • It is really expensive computer diagnostic equipment only because the manufacturer is trying to control the repair market. Modern engines are run by computers that know a lot about what is going right and what is going wrong, without any outside guidance. Simple error codes or status codes should be sufficient.

      In most cases, an experienced mechanic could figure out what needs to be replaced even without the aid of a computer, by observing what does not work or listening to the engine.

      But your John Deere c

  • Any politics involving tractors always reminds me of British PM John Major's bizarre "Get Your Tractors Off Our Lawn" speech and makes me smile.

  • I like Bernie more because while Warren gets more done she, like a lot of Democrats, is a bit too defeatist. Democrats give up too easy, even when a position is 70-90% popular. Warren's already backed off Medicare for All into a public option. Now, I know what she's up to (a properly implemented public option would quickly out-compete private, for profit insurance programs) but the trouble is the other side isn't negotiating in good faith, and will use cyclic political changes to undermine the law. They did
    • >Warren gets more done she,like a lot of Democrats
      Except for when it comes to voting on their own proposals. Then all of the sudden they can't be bothered to do the only job they have to do which is to vote yea or nay.

      >the other side isn't negotiating in good faith
      Right. I believe the side that put forward the ACA that was designed to fail so that single payer medicare for all would be put in its place. That's good faith politics.

      >I want Warren and the whole of the Dems to stop reaching across the

  • The reality is farmers own their machines less and less. Outside of simple tractors they are too complex and too expensive. Combines today are processing plants on wheels. Pass this and they will just stop selling altogether and only lease.
    You want things opened up give manufacturers immunity from liability. Manufacturers don't care about few hundred dollars in service work. The dealer gets most of that anyway. They care about a multi-million dollar lawsuit because some idiot bypassed the safety lock and gr

  • Just make an DMCA exemptions so hosting leaked software for repair / restore images is 100% legal.

  • Why the f--- do we no longer have the right to repair something we bought?
    What nation wide law was passed that took that right away?
    What's next, bread that we aren't allowed to slice?

  • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @04:34PM (#58343564)
    Instead, just make it so if a company requires repairs be done through themselves or their authorized dealer chain, then the repairs are free. i.e. If the company wants to insist on exclusivity of repairs for 10 years, then their product basically has to have a 10 year warranty. If they want to insist on exclusivity forever, then the product is warranted forever.

    The advantage is that a right to repair law can be challenged on the grounds that it's violating the manufacturer's right to offer its products for sale in whatever fashion it sees fit. If you do it my way, companies can still do what John Deere does with tractors, or Epson does with chipped printer cartridges, or Apple does with iPhones. But if they elect to do it that way, then the purchase essentially becomes a lease - the lessee gets use of the product, but the lessor is responsible for the maintenance and repair costs (not always obvious, but if your leased car breaks down and is too expensive to repair, you can just walk away from the lease and leave the car company to eat the loss on their broken product, not you). And the legal framework for leases is very well established so is unlikely to be overturned by a court challenge.

    Basically, don't set up a confrontation between the buyer's right to repair and the seller's right to design a product as they see fit. Instead, channel products which come without restrictions on the owner into purchases, while products where the manufacturer retains control over after possession is transferred to the "buyer" become leases.
    • You can design anything you like but you can't necessarily sell it. Specifically products have to comply with the FCC and UL just a name a couple groups of regulations.

      An anti-obsolescence law against waste would be very American. And it would strengthen the security of the country. Products do need minimum standards.

    • by Uberbah ( 647458 ) on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @07:17PM (#58344562)

      Instead, just make it so if a company requires repairs be done through themselves or their authorized dealer chain, then the repairs are free. i.e. If the company wants to insist on exclusivity of repairs for 10 years, then their product basically has to have a 10 year warranty. If they want to insist on exclusivity forever, then the product is warranted forever.

      Farmer Bill: Hey, John Deere, my tractor broke down. I need it fixed ASAP as the window for planting in Spring 2019 is closing.

      John Deere: Sure, Bill, no problem. We'll get your tractor fixed at no charge - in time for the 2020 planting season.

      Farmer Bill: I can't wait that long! If I can't plant my crop in time I'll lose my farm.

      John Deere: We're happy to help. If you fork over $25,000 we'll get it fixed by Easter. $65,000 for expedited service if you want it by the weekend. Have a nice day!

  • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) * on Wednesday March 27, 2019 @06:40PM (#58344392)

    they have to call an authorized dealer and wait for them to show up -- a fix that's too slow and too costly for a farmer.

    Why do they insist on buying John Deere tractors then? Isn't this where the invisible hand of the free market makes consumers prefer tractors that CAN be repaired on site by anyone, and where John Deere goes out of business because it can't sell tractors any more? I'm sure Ford or Massey or Tracto Universal or any of a hundred other tractor manufacturers wouldn't mind the extra business. There's something fishy here if a law is required.

  • If something is legal to do by oneself, it should always be legal to pay someone else to do it for you.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get empirical." -- Jon Carroll

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