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Power Transportation Businesses

GM Is Getting Into the Electric Bike Business (techcrunch.com) 98

Posted by BeauHD from the new-business-models dept.
General Motors is planning to bring two new electric bikes to the market in 2019; one will be folding and the other will be compact. TechCrunch reports: The bikes will be "smart" and "connected" and somehow inspired by GM's OnStar, the company's subscription-based communications, in-vehicle security and emergency services feature found in cars. Hannah Parish, director of General Motors Urban Mobility Solutions, wouldn't elaborate what that might look like. We'll have to wait until next year. The bikes are also equipped with safety features including rechargeable front and rear LED lights. And the electric propulsion on the bikes were designed by GM engineers who created a proprietary drive system. For now, GM is focused on naming the e-bikes. And it's turning to the public to help. The company launched a brand-naming campaign Friday as part of its broader e-bike announcement. The company launched a website where people can suggest names for the e-bikes and have the chance to win up to $10,000.
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GM Is Getting Into the Electric Bike Business More

GM Is Getting Into the Electric Bike Business

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  • And who is going to pay OnStar fees on a bike? (Score:3)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @12:19PM (#57589900)

    And who is going to pay OnStar fees on a bike? even more so if they want to pay year round even in areas where you can't ride year round?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cederic ( 9623 )

      Municipal authorities.
      Employers with large campuses.
      People living in high crime areas.

      Electric bikes can cost more than a car but you can't tucj a car under your arm and walk off with it. I can understand people seeking to protect their investment.

      A lease system feels a more appropriate model but I'm not GM.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Bicycles however are the stupid choice, they should be tricycles, to vastly improve stability, ease of use and carrying capability ie safe transport of adult and child for example. Bicycles are a dumb choice and only have limited capability, that third wheel, is not a relationship third wheel but the other side of the triangle in providing stable support for passengers and greater cargo, even all weather capability (the two wheels in from to more readily support cargo and ensure the parent can monitor the c

        • Bicycles however are the stupid choice, they should be tricycles,

          Tricycles are garbage, and here's why. They take up a lot more space than a bicycle on the road and in storage. They don't go up and down curbs as easily as a bicycle. They are wide. They are actually less stable because you can't lean them over in a turn, you lean and they don't. The rear wheels don't track behind the front wheels, so avoiding road junk and potholes is harder. They don't cope at all well with singletrack, even if they fit they'll be forever pitching one way and then the other. Same for rut

    • Re:And who is going to pay OnStar fees on a bike? (Score:4, Informative)

      by bagofbeans ( 567926 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @12:35PM (#57589952)

      "GM's OnStar, the company's subscription-based communications, in-vehicle security and emergency services feature found in cars."

      It's also a tracking system, so the "you are the product" deal works too.

      • It's also a tracking system, so the "you are the product" deal works too.

        Also, GPS tracking is a requirement for free floating vehicle-sharing system (think things like li.me ), which are potential clients of e-bikes.

    • Oh, you won't need to subscribe to get the important features, like GM being able to track your location and other data mining functionality.

    • Perhaps GM is thinking of putting scooters into cars. Have a scooter charging station and a compartment you can access easily without shifting all the junk. But then the problem comes if someone steals your personal scooter. So now you have On-star to keep track of it?

  • Since you have to load the main-battery, the front- and the back-light battery, OneStar wouldn't be right.

  • Hardcore innovators (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @12:40PM (#57589960) Journal

    safety features including rechargeable front and rear LED lights

    Wow, what will they think of next? By the way, on an e-bike I'd expect integrated lights rather than rechargeable ones, powered by the propulsion battery.

    • I'd expect integrated lights rather than rechargeable ones, powered by the propulsion battery.

      I rented an ebike and bumped into the rear light with a bag causing it to pop open and release a couple of AA cells on to the road. Expect the headlight to be wired but with a round beam that blinds oncoming traffic and blinks so nobody can judge your speed and a rear light that may not be wired. At least in the USA where GM is headquartered.

      • blinks so nobody can judge your speed

        I seriously wish they would ban those f-ing things. Hint to cyclists: those blinking lights do NOT increase your visibility, but reduce it.

        • Re:Hardcore innovators (Score:5, Insightful)

          by zugmeister ( 1050414 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @03:59PM (#57590614)

          blinking lights do NOT increase your visibility, but reduce it.

          This must be why police cars and auto hazard lights and road sawhorse lights are all steady, right?
          It may be harder to judge the speed of an oncoming strobe, but I'd say there's a pretty good case it grabs attention.
          I haven't even been hit once with my blinky headlight going! ;-)

          • The purpose of strobe lights and hazard lights is not to increase visibility, in terms of making it easier to judge speed, distance and direction of the vehicle. Their purpose is to draw your attention, which blinking lights are very good for. A continuous light however is much better for “tracking” the vehicle.

            By the way, I looked up the laws for bicycle lights around here, and it turns out that blinking front or rear lights are already forbidden.

    • An eBike is a bike that you can use like an ordinary bike when the main battery is empty.
      So: how does your front and rear light work now?

  • For now, GM is focused on naming the e-bikes. And it's turning to the public to help. The company launched a brand-naming campaign Friday as part of its broader e-bike announcement.

    I suggest they call it the General Motors EV-2 [wikipedia.org].

    • I suggest they call it the General Motors EV-2 [wikipedia.org].

      No, that might lead to confusion with the Lego EV3.

      You can flash the EV3 with Linux and program it with Python . . . I wonder if General Motors will allow this also on their bike . . . ?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DanDD ( 1857066 )

        Once again, sarcasm has failed me.

        My intent was a slap in the face insult to GM based on their history with electric vehicles:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Hasaf ( 3744357 )

        The EV-3 is already running Linux, just observe the boot sequence. Yes, it is a very specialized Linux build, but it is still Linux.

        I am a Robotics teacher at a Middle School where we use the EV-3s'. I also coach an FLL Robotics team , which also uses the EV-3 family.

  • Stick with cars (Score:3)

    by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @12:43PM (#57589978)
    Call me crazy, but shouldn't they be working a bit harder on electric *cars*, maybe?

    • You're crazy. And yes they should. But that isn't at all relevant. Making a car and making an e-bike are many orders of magnitude different in difficulty and in required resourcing.

  • Bikey McBikeyface (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Haven’t we learned anything, yet?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      If they're lucky.

      'Hitler did nothing wrong' is also an option.

  • How about Rbike. You buy it and pay us for the right to use it (or anything)!

  • I don't want a bike that is smart or connected. Pass

  • OnStar (Score:2)

    by Guppy ( 12314 )

    Actually looking forward to this. There are a ton of different inexpensive e-bikes available in Asia, but the price and selection around here is not as good (presumably because they are a low-volume specialty item). Then again, this bike probably won't change that part.

    Also surprised to hear about the OnStar. Usually don't like subscription services, but would be nice if it has automatic accident reporting (if working correctly).

    • It has automatic accident reporting. And automatic tracking of every place you stop and for how long. And automatic tracking of everywhere you go. And how fast you go. And how fast you stop.

      And you even pay for it!

      What's not to like?

    • Re:OnStar (Score:4, Interesting)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @11:36PM (#57591974)
      I don't want automatic accident reporting unless it has something like a 2 minute delay where I can tell it NOT to call anyone. If nothing is damaged other than your own vehicle, why risk a ticket, police contact, and fine by reporting a damn thing?

      • In which country do you live that you fear a fine for an accident, or a fine for reporting or fear police contact?
        Let me guess, US? And you are black? I get it ...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AvitarX ( 172628 )

          What country do you live in where a single car accident isn't an almost certain ticket?

  • Really? What is their leadership team thinking? Even if they take off, the revenue from a $2000 bike is dwarfed by that on an SUV, and there are already established players in the market.

  • The almost right bike (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @02:14PM (#57590270) Journal
    Skip the chain. Simply have the pedals turn an alternator to charge the battery, which runs the motor. Then use the motor for braking (i.e. regen).

    • Re:The almost right bike (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Sunday November 04, 2018 @04:13PM (#57590648) Homepage Journal

      What you are proposing is a series hybrid; this is useful in situation where driving the wheels with your engine requires a complex, heavy, and usually inefficient transmission.

      Bicycle transmissions are extremely light weight and efficient -- efficiencies of over 95% are achievable in a properly maintained bike. So while series hybrid arrangement makes sense for a diesel electric locomotive, parallel hybrid makes sense for an ebike. It doesn't make sense to add stuff in series with a powertrain that is already as efficient as anything could be.

      Bikes are almost unique in the mechanical world: they operate at extremely low powers and speeds. An elite cyclist over a long race stage might produce an average of 300 watts. To put that in perspective moderate walking takes about 60 watts. It doesn't take a very large motor or battery to close the gap between an average cyclist and an extremely fit cyclist. So the usual arrangement on the ebike world is to use pedal sensors to control a motor of 500-750 watts in parallel with your own power output.

      Riding a series hybrid ebike would be riding an ergonomically awkward electric motorcycle. Riding a parallel hybrid ebike is very much like riding an ordinary bicycle would be, if you had superhuman legs and lungs.

      • Bicycle transmissions are extremely light weight and efficient -- efficiencies of over 95% are achievable in a properly maintained bike.

        Yes, it's because of the nature of a chain. Only the loaded link has any appreciable friction. Chains are kind of magical for the jobs they are suited to, which generally occur at relatively low RPMs. Recently I saw a YouTube video of an alternative bicycle drivetrain which the creators claimed was more efficient than a chain, but I don't even slightly believe it because their design had multiple ball bearings under full load instead of just one chain link.

        To me, though, the real appeal of a bicycle with a

    • And presto! Here's your 60 lb electric bicycle. Once you account for the energy lost from your pedaling to the generator, stored in the battery then run through the motor, I'd be surprised if your really heavy bicycle gave you a return of 50% of what you put into it. Contrast that with a decent standard bicycle drivetrain (94-97% efficient) and you have why that would be a problem.
      Now if you have a dynamo hub to charge capacitors powering lighting, speakers, phone etc. I bet that could have some legs to it

      • Once you account for the energy lost from your pedaling to the generator, stored in the battery then run through the motor, I'd be surprised if your really heavy bicycle gave you a return of 50% of what you put into it.

        You don't run it through the battery, you deliver the energy directly to the motor, like you do in a train. But since it's electric you can use a relatively small battery for regen, and return the power for fill-in, hill assist, etc.

        A real problem is what you said at the top of your comment, i.e. weight. A chain drive weighs roughly nothing compared to two electric motors and a battery. But the biggest problem is cost. Chain parts are stamped out basically for free by modern standards. Sprockets, likewise.

    • This has been tried already, even commercially, but the advantages of having the motor not as part of the moving mass of the front or rear wheel massively outweigh the advantage of being able to regain some energy when breaking.
  • The Google Bike video....More for Less https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • Nice. To show my appreciation I present you an ascii bike: o^-\o

      (i didn't say it would be a *good* ascii bike)

  • Mr Musk is thinking about doing one as well. That should be fun :)
  • I can't see this putting a dent in the bottom line of a company as huge as GM, the ebike market just isn't that big. Not that I'm not glad they're doing it, GM has some phenomenal talent and deep pockets, so they could really push the envelope for ebike performance.
    • I think it fits into a "smart city" niche which is the next big thing in a lot of places around the world. In densely populated areas, and with green transport being high on the list of priorities, we might find a lot of future city planning being willing to put money into community shared electric bikes. If governments want to invest in bike sharing for city areas then the volumes can get pretty big. Establish yourself as the main player in that line of business and you could soon have 100s of local city c
  • amazons ebikes range from 389 up to 2169! will they accept tradei-ns?

  • "Spybike" and "Everdebt".

  • Technically speaking it wouldn't be difficult to track electric bikes, give them some kind of wireless connectivity and thus make them "connected" but you need something behind that to make it actually useful. There aren't a lot of companies out there that can immediately tap into a network like OnStar with all it's existing technology and support base. This is something GM can just add on to what they already do, and so it actually makes a lot of sense. They can release a connected bike with some of the fe

  • The first modern electric car was the EV1, made by GM, and they self-destructed the program because it got more interest than they were expecting. The token gesture of "hey, we can be green, not just petrol" started to backfire, and they went into a spiral of denial and self-delusion. Wonder how well it'll work out for bikes.

    • The first modern electric car was the EV1, made by GM, and they self-destructed the program because it got more interest than they were expecting

      No, it was pulled because it ran on heavy lead-acid batteries, and could barely go up a hill.
      The ecar movement was impossible before LiOn batteries were available.

  • I hope they're more reliable than GM's cars.

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