Intel To Support 128GB of DDR4 on Core 9th Gen Desktop Processors (anandtech.com) 172
Ian Cutress, writing for AnandTech: One of today's announcements threw up an interesting footnote worthy of further investigation. With its latest products, HP announced that their mainstream desktop platforms would be shipped with up to 32GB of memory, which was further expandable up to 128GB. Intel has confirmed to us, based on new memory entering the market, that there will be an adjustment to the memory support of the latest processors.
Normally mainstream processors only support 64GB, by virtue of two memory channels, two DIMMs per memory channel (2DPC), and the maximum size of a standard consumer UDIMM being 16GB of DDR4, meaning 4x16GB = 64GB. However the launch of two different technologies, both double height double capacity 32GB DDR4 modules from Zadak and G.Skill, as well as new 16Gb DDR4 chips coming from Samsung, means that technically in a consumer system with four memory slots, up to 128GB might be possible.
Normally mainstream processors only support 64GB, by virtue of two memory channels, two DIMMs per memory channel (2DPC), and the maximum size of a standard consumer UDIMM being 16GB of DDR4, meaning 4x16GB = 64GB. However the launch of two different technologies, both double height double capacity 32GB DDR4 modules from Zadak and G.Skill, as well as new 16Gb DDR4 chips coming from Samsung, means that technically in a consumer system with four memory slots, up to 128GB might be possible.
Why? (Score:2)
Or anything in the near future. Next 5-10 years.
Chrome doesn't count. That will eat up all the RAM anyways.
Re: Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
VMs obviously. Adobe as well.
Re: (Score:2)
This. Yeah, you could go buy enterprise hardware but why? For the home user this would be perfectly acceptable. It's obviously not mainstream yet. But I could use it in the near future.
intel wants to buy an xeon cpu for that AMD is ope (Score:2)
intel wants to buy an xeon cpu for that AMD is open and does not lockdown the desktop cpus like that.
Re: (Score:1)
I run analyses that require ~30GB, so I'd love to be able to multi-thread that and get four instances going.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
I agree (Score:1)
640k ought to be enough for anybody.
Re: (Score:2)
It is for a 16bit program. During that type most applications could fit in 64k of RAM, that has enough room for the OS and a fully operational BASIC interpreter.
Then we wanted 80 column display, then graphics then we wanted the graphics with higher resolution and more colors....
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, like we're ever going to need more than EGA for the new flat GUI fad...
Re: (Score:2)
EGA, almost.
CGA? You must be joking.
Re: (Score:2)
CGA was a horrible "four colours" palette, with a choice between four equally crappy palettes.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)
Certainly, with virtualization. Perhaps not mainstream, but my home server is creaking under it's current memory limits if I have the Windows VMs up. Yes, there are other approaches, but this is a valid use for gobs of RAM.
Maybe gaming too? Being able to cache the *entire* game to RAM would seem likely to speed things up, maybe make loading screens a thing of the past.
Use Cases (Score:5, Informative)
Multitrack high-res audio editing. Video editing and compositing. Medium format 48-bit image editing.
Anything needing a few gigabytes of RAM just to load a project will just get faster the more you can buffer stuff into memory.
Re: (Score:2)
Medium format 48-bit image editing
Image editing in general:
- Normal images with many layers eat RAM.
- Creating gigapixel images.
- Advanced processing for images e.g. stacking to 64bit images, deconvolution, etc. They can all happily eat up as much RAM as you let it.
Re: (Score:2)
Add in effects, virtual instruments, all of those requiring working RAM too. Oh, and while actually creating and editing, you can have way more than 8 channels too.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not unusual for me to have 30 to 40 channels in a project, and many of those are going to be stereo (so, effectively two tracks).
As you said about virtual instruments taking RAM: Alicia's Keys is 18 GB of samples. For one fucking piano.
Re: (Score:2)
Officially the first i7 parts to support 128GB were the broadwell-e parts released in may 2016 which is over two years ago. There are also reports that while not officially supported 128GB did in fact work on the older haswell-e parts.
So the GPs claim is perfectly plausible.
The question with these new modules is how much will they cost. Will the cost difference between 4x32GB and 8x16GB be more or less than the cost difference between a maintstream desktop CPU/MB and a high end desktop CPU/MB.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Virtual machines ... CAD software ... databases ... rendering software ... huge data sets.
There's a lot of things for which "too much RAM" can never be true.
On a desktop I can burn through 16GB without even trying, and 32GB I can fill without trying that hard.
I can guarantee you, someone somewhere can chew through 128GB of RAM for their specific problem.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm dealing with 100GB-1TB databases at work on a regular basis — I'm sure, others have encountered even bigger ones. Fitting all — or most — of the dataset into RAM is greatly speeding things up. Indeed, there are database-software packages already (such as, ugh, "memcache"), that must load it all into RAM, offering dramatically-improved speeds in exchange for this requirement.
On the OS level, swap — and the associated complexity of the kernels — is becoming unnecessary in more and more cases. On some of my FreeBSD machines, for example, I'm already compiling the kernel with options NO_SWAPPING.
On the filesystem-level, ZFS — the revolutionary filesystem — can offer much better speed with more RAM. The abundance of RAM is also making its advanced features (like deduplication) practical.
And for a layman's personal computer, editing a 4K video becomes much snappier too, if the the entire (uncompressed) clip fits into RAM.
And then come things like "machine learning" — I'm waiting for a Thunderbird add-on, for example, to automatically sort my incoming e-mail. Not just "spam/not-spam", but all of it, based on the ongoing analysis of how I've been sorting it through the years... For those things to be effective, they need both CPU and memory — continuously...
Other examples — legitimate and otherwise (like Chrome) — abound...
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
> On the filesystem-level, ZFS — the revolutionary filesystem — can offer much better speed with more RAM. The abundance of RAM is also making its advanced features (like deduplication) practical.
At scale, ZFS deduplication is a non-starter. The requirements of 5GB/TB are just not workable. I'm in the early investigative stages of a petabyte scale project and will be testing Red Hat's VDO layered on top of ZFS. The deduplication requirements of VDO are 268MB/TB, which means our 480TB storage
Re: (Score:2)
Why? By your numbers, you can have a 50TB filesystem needing 250GB of RAM for deduplication. That's only two of the 128GB DIMMs being discussed — your server can still use the rest of the RAM-slots for other things (like caching)...
Re: (Score:2)
For databases that large, wouldn't something like AMD Threadripper or an Intel Xeon make more sense? Those would offer more memory channels to better access the amount of RAM you are looking to put in there.
Re: (Score:3)
There is an 20/80 rules. 20% of the data is used 80% of the time.
For a Database server of a modest size of 600 gigs. 128 gig ram, would be handy for most of your data requests that are handled. Speeding up the data access on the app.
I happen to do a lot of data processing, the more I can stuff in RAM normally the better, because I don't need to go back and optimize code to handle slower drive reads, or because my OS is thrashing because I gave it too much data.
For home use not so much. My Laptop has 32gigs
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I remember thinking the same thing when the original Mac II came out, supporting 128MB.
Never underestimate Parkinson's Law.
Re: (Score:2)
128KB? 128MB would've been good around 2003-ish.
Re: (Score:2)
Under some NDAs, so I cannot fully answer it. But I did talk with a client once that had a use case for 128GiB RAM on a laptop in order to run a specific type of database for presentations to high ranking government officials. These of course were not standard laptops, but over-sized and high-powered, specialized systems. Essentially mobile desktops with attached screens.
Re: (Score:2)
The new Thinkpad P52/P72 laptops support 128Gb using 4x32Gb DIMMs with their Xeon laptop chips. I'd _love_ to get my hands on one of those bad boys!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Photoscan and other photogrammetry applications, when working with large image sets (1000+ photos) and high quality settings.
After Effects uses RAM to store rendered frames, so increasing from 64 to 128GB means you can have twice as many frames stored in RAM preview at a time.
Video editing with 6K and 8K footage, though usually in those situations you would want a CPU with more cores anyway (so a Core X processor, which can already support 128GB of memory without more dense modules.
That is just what I can think of off the top of my head, and that others in this thread haven't already mentioned.
Re: (Score:2)
I mean beyond shits and giggles, is there anything out there that could use 128GB of RAM and even get close to that number. Or anything in the near future. Next 5-10 years. Chrome doesn't count. That will eat up all the RAM anyways.
Less than 20 years ago 32 megabytes of memory was the norm under Windows NT Workstation. Not sure why you fail to see another exponential increase in memory demand, particularly for power users. Also, ever heard of VMs before? It's this "new" thing we've been playing with for about two decades now...
Re: (Score:2)
Less than 20 years ago 32 megabytes of memory was the norm under Windows NT Workstation.
Minor quibble, but you might be off by a few years. 20 years ago, Dell was selling regular desktop computers that supported 256-512 MB of RAM. 32 MB would have been common more than 20 years ago, but probably less than 25 years ago.
Just thought I'd mention it, since I remember upgrading my old 486 computer to 16 MB in 1996 or so, and the P2-400 I bought in 1998 came with 128 MB, I think.
Re: (Score:2)
Back then ram was relatively expensive. Computers could support a lot more RAM than they usually shipped with. You could have a computer with 512 MB of ram in 1998 but be prepared to pay for it. A typical configuration would probably be 32-64 MB. This did come in handy a few years later when upgrading those PCs from Windows 98 (perfectly happy with 64 MB) to Windows XP (256 MB needed to run halfway decently).
Nowadays, RAM is comparatively cheap - though more expensive than it was just a few years ago, s
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
For enterprise users, it means they can build beefy workstations without having to resort to Xeon W processors. There is a Xeon W versio
Re: (Score:2)
I work with 3D, 2D, Video.
At any one time I might have Photoshop, a couple instances of Maya, Mudbox, After Effects open.
I have a 6 year old computer at home, it still works great, but I'm starting to bump into its 32GB RAM limit.
At work I have 64GB, and RAM is not a problem.
If I were buying a computer today I'd get 64GB with the intention of getting another 64GB somewhere down the lifecycle.
We might at some point reach the limit of how many pixels and polygons we need want in a scene, but we're not there y
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Load the OS into RAM, duh.
Re: (Score:2)
Anything involving analysis of 3D structures (the stuff I remember using was an electromagnetic simulator called HFSS). Doubling your mesh resolution leads to increasing memory usage by a factor of 8 so you can very quickly eat up as much memory as you can throw at it in search of more accurate and/or higher frequency results.
Re: (Score:2)
CAD workstations. Try visualizing a modern jumbo jet with over 100,000 components represented using the commercial CAD formats. Each of those has so much meta-data you need all that Gigabytes. Then there are GIS systems that model entire cities and states using multi-layer information and Terabytes of textures.
Re: (Score:2)
The last "big computer" I worked on was a Sun E10k. It had 64 CPUs with 4 cores. And one terrabyte of RAM.
$20k Mac Pro? (Score:2)
Can you imagine what Apple would charge you for 126GB of RAM?
They already charge you 1200$ for 64GB. I am guessing it will be massively more than that.
At the moment I have 32Gb on my machine. I have never gotten even remotely close to using it up. ;)
Then again, I am not editing huge video files are doing renderings. Likely those people would welcome the extra ram.
Assuming they are using a windows machine, so they could actually afford to buy it
Re: (Score:2)
I take it back.. Apple will already sell you 128GB on the iMac for 2400$. What a deal!
Re: (Score:2)
$2,400 for a higher end system isn't that bad. Yes you can build yourself a computer with better specs for less. But for a pre-made system that is about on par.
Re: (Score:2)
I think he meant $2400 for the 128GB RAM alone. You still need to buy the Mac.
$2,400 upgrade vs $1,600 full kit. OWC cheaper as (Score:2)
$2,400 upgrade vs $1,600 full kit.
OWC cheaper as well with pro install + ram at $2049.00 and take off $180 more if you trade in your old ram.
Re: (Score:2)
Somewhat in their defense, that's ECC memory [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:2)
Most laptops are 16gb maxed. Some of the newer ones are now 32 or 64gigs. But those are harder to find.
Re: (Score:2)
Can you imagine what Apple would charge you for 126GB of RAM?
I guess much more than for 128GB.
Enough. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Still not enough to make a simulation of the universe on the subatomic level. (Granted making a universe on a subatomic level, would require a system the size of the universe, unless you are going to make shortcuts)
Re: (Score:2)
Due to the holographic principal, at the most compact, the entire universe's information could be stored on the surface of a black hole the size of Sagittarius A* [youtu.be]. You'll have to wait for the black hole to decay to get your simulation results out however.
Re: (Score:2)
Is this new? (Score:2)
I'm running 128GB of RAM on a i7 6800k on a Asus TUF x99.
Works great. Virtual machines FTW.
Re: (Score:2)
I read this article and thought the same thing. I'm only at 64gig on my x99 but I could certainly rip some more sticks in there :)
I'm your browser (Score:2)
Threadripper (Score:5, Informative)
From this link: [wikichip.org]
Max Mem 1 TiB
Xeon (Score:2)
From this link: [wikichip.org]
Max Mem: 1,536 GiB
50% more memory bandwidth too, due to 6 channel instead of 4.
They're not just for servers. HP sell them in workstations with up to 3TB of installed RAM for dual CPU models.
Re: (Score:1)
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/a... [wikichip.org]
Max Mem: 2 TiB
And even more bandwith, due to 8 channels instead of 6.
Re: (Score:2)
and still no motherboards with enough slots to test it.
You'll just have to take AMD's word for it.
You can however buy a Xeon machine with 3TB of RAM and a 2 CPUs
Re: (Score:1)
Just a quick Google search:
https://www.supermicro.com/Apl... [supermicro.com]
https://www.tyan.com/EN/campai... [tyan.com]
Several models mention being able to use 2 TB of RAM, with dual socket ones being able to reach 4 TB.
Re: (Score:1)
Intel Xeon E7 chips have been able to address 3 tb ram for years now, and in the same price-class as the Threadripper.
The Core i9 is a desktop CPU and a third to a fifth of the price accordingly.
Your confusion only comes about because AMD doesn't differentiate low, mid, and high end CPUs so it isn't apparent at first glance what class it is in.
If you're willing to drop the $800 for a Threadripper able to use 1 TB ram, the equiv Intel CPU for that price is the Xeon which can address 3 TB ram.
An AMD CPU in th
Re: (Score:2)
If you're willing to only drop $800 on a CPU, You're not going to want to drop $80,000 on 1TB of RAM.
Fluid simulation in Houdini (Score:1)
I have 64 GB, but I'm not limited to 64 GiB on my HP Z820 workstation ( with a dual Xeon, I can go to 512 GB) , but it's barely enough to do FLIP fluid simulations in SideFX Houdini 17.
With 128 GB it's really a lot more comfortable.
Double-height? (Score:2)
Double-height is nothing.
How about octuple-height [lucidscience.com]?
Re: (Score:2)
Warning: the post above is SFW unless you work for Intel, AMD, Micron, Samsung or Hynix.
That puts it between Ryzen and Threadripper (Score:1)
A Ryzen CPU can support half that, up to 64 GB of RAM, but a Threadripper CPU can support eight times as much, up to 2 TB.
Re: (Score:1)
TFA actually states that Ryzen supports the 128GB. AMD will test the new quantities, then when qualified they will update their official spec.
Intel doesn't but you'll be able to search on the web and learn if this worked on older CPUs.
e.g. the i7 920 officially supported 24GB. i7 2600K supported 32GB. i7 920 worked perfectly with 48GB but Intel will never tell you, in the hope you'll buy something bigger, newer or both.
Already happening on 8th gen (Score:2)
Chasing AMD taillights (Score:2, Informative)
Epyc supports 2TB per chip. [extremetech.com] WTF is up with Intel?
Re:Chasing AMD taillights (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Intel supports up to 3.06 TB a CPU.
Intel's high end Xeons have 6 channels, looks like 1.5TB to me.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Right, i9 is Intel's top of the line HEDT product so Threadripper is the proper comparison, which has 4 channels vs i9's two.
Actually we were all baited, because the article is not about memory channels, it is about DIMM capacity. The headline is a pure troll.
Re: (Score:2)
The news is, Intel artificially restricted their desktop parts to 16GB dimms until now while AMD did not. So 128GB Ryzen desktop is just a matter of swapping the dimms when 32GB actually arrives at retail, but with Intel you need a new processor. New motherboard too? Not sure about that but it would be consistent with the usual Intel experience.
Re: (Score:2)
You can buy workstations loaded with 3TB and 2 Xeon CPUs.
Where do you buy Threadripper motherboards that support 1TB of RAM?
Google Chrome bliss (Score:1)
I can finally run all the tabs I would ever want!
Re: (Score:2)
I can finally run all the tabs I would ever want!
Firefox sez: "Hold my beer and watch this!"
Trade-Off (Score:2)
I know that this is something to do with the actual RAM timing profile, but I am not aware of the precise technical driver behind it.
In other words, if you are adding RAM to gain maximum performance, then there is a sweet spot that you can actually go beyond - and to go beyond will have the effect o
Re: (Score:2)
It's worth bearing in mind that as you increase the amount of RAM, particularly in high performance systems like those with i9 processors, that the system has to reduce the memory access speeds accordingly.
AIUI
A processor has a limited number of memory channels. On Intel desktop chips (not sure about the AMD side) each channel can drive up to two modules with up to two "rank"s each. Each "rank" normally consists of 8 chips and the more ranks are present on a channel the higher the loading on the bus and the slower the timings needed to make the channel work reliably.
Server chips often use "registered" memory which allows a larger number of ranks (both more modules and more ranks per module) but adds an extra
Without ECC, why bother? (Score:2)
As long as Intel insists on not supporting ECC on desktop chips, they don't stand a chance of getting my business. Even with "only" 16 GB, I want ECC.
We can already do that (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
5 tabs now they're removing the RSS reader code.
Re: (Score:2)
Quad channel was done by AMD in 2010 for their Opteron CPU's
Intel did quad channel on their LGA2011 sockets in 2011 and 3 channel on LGA1366 in 2008
The "desktop" 1151 sockets are only 2 channel, not enough pins. You'd need ~150 pins minimum for just the signals for each channel. I assume each bit is a diff pair and the channels are 64 bits with, with clocks, ras, cas, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
You're confused.
A Precision T7500 is a computer.
A Threadripper is just a CPU and doesn't have any memory slots. You need to find a motherboard with enough RAM slots to put 2TB in it. There are none available for a child company like AMD.
You have been able to buy HP workstations with Xeon CPUs and 3TB of RAM for a year now. The RAM alone costs $220,000 though.