Apple, Huawei Both Claim First 7nm Smartphone Chips (ieee.org) 91
When Apple unveiled the iPhone Xs and Xs Max earlier today, it said they will contain the A12 Bionic chip -- the first smartphone processor to be made using 7nm manufacturing technology. But, as IEEE Spectrum points out, Huawei made the same claim late last month when it unveiled the Kirin 980 system on a chip. From the report: Apple's new A12 Bionic is made up of four CPU cores, six GPU cores, and an 8-core "neural engine" to handle machine learning tasks. According to Apple, the neural engine can perform 5 trillion operations per second -- an eight-fold boost -- and consumes one-tenth the energy of its previous incarnation. Of the GPU cores, two are designed for performance and are 15 percent faster than their predecessors. The other four are built for efficiency, with a 50 percent improvement on that metric. The system can decide which combination of the three types of cores will run a task most efficiently.
Huawei's chip, the Kirin 980, was unveiled at the IFA 2018 in Berlin on 31 August. It packs 6.9 billion transistors onto a one-square-centimeter chip. The company says it's the first chip to use processors based on Arm's Cortex-A76, which is 75 percent more powerful and 58 percent more efficient compared to its predecessors the A73 and A75. It has 8 cores, two big, high-performance ones based on the A76, two middle-performance ones that are also A76s, and four smaller, high-efficiency cores based on a Cortex-A55 design. The system runs on a variation of Arm's big.LITTLE architecture, in which immediate, intensive workloads are handled by the big processors while sustained background tasks are the job of the little ones. Kirin 980's GPU component is called the Mali-G76, and it offers a 46 percent performance boost and a 178 percent efficiency improvement from the previous generation. The chip also has a dual-core neural processing unit that more than doubles the number of images it can recognize to 4,500 images per minute. Apple will be the first to bring the 7nm chip in volume to market, as Huawei is expected to to start shipping its Mate 20 series phone (with the 7nm chip) a month or two later. Qualcomm also announced late last month that it's begun sampling its 7nm next-gen Snapdragon SoC. As IEEE Spectrum notes, the real winner is TSMC, which is making all three processors.
Huawei's chip, the Kirin 980, was unveiled at the IFA 2018 in Berlin on 31 August. It packs 6.9 billion transistors onto a one-square-centimeter chip. The company says it's the first chip to use processors based on Arm's Cortex-A76, which is 75 percent more powerful and 58 percent more efficient compared to its predecessors the A73 and A75. It has 8 cores, two big, high-performance ones based on the A76, two middle-performance ones that are also A76s, and four smaller, high-efficiency cores based on a Cortex-A55 design. The system runs on a variation of Arm's big.LITTLE architecture, in which immediate, intensive workloads are handled by the big processors while sustained background tasks are the job of the little ones. Kirin 980's GPU component is called the Mali-G76, and it offers a 46 percent performance boost and a 178 percent efficiency improvement from the previous generation. The chip also has a dual-core neural processing unit that more than doubles the number of images it can recognize to 4,500 images per minute. Apple will be the first to bring the 7nm chip in volume to market, as Huawei is expected to to start shipping its Mate 20 series phone (with the 7nm chip) a month or two later. Qualcomm also announced late last month that it's begun sampling its 7nm next-gen Snapdragon SoC. As IEEE Spectrum notes, the real winner is TSMC, which is making all three processors.
Re:Claim, schmaim (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Claim, schmaim (Score:5, Interesting)
At this point, the measurement of a nanometer in chip manufacturing is so.......flexible.......that it's not really worth paying attention to, other than as an announcement of something new. It's too imprecise of a measurement.
The nominal node name still serves to identify the node, even if it no long actually measures the half-pitch. And there is the intel factor: multiply the TSMC/Samsung node name by roughly 1.4 to get the Intel node name. This is pretty much generally understood.
As far as I can see, node names do not correspond to any particular mask dimension, they are just names, but names are useful.
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Not just what it can do but how long it can do it. Molecular drift, apparently can cause real problems, add heat and over time new circuits can form or old ones break. How reliable are they over the long term.
Re:Claim, schmaim (Score:4, Insightful)
You'll note that Intel's 10nm process yields more improvement than the (14/10)^2 = 1.96x density increase you'd expect. So some of the components are being shrunk more thna a 14:10 ratio with the new process. However, Intel's 10nm process has been delayed repeatedly since 2016, with the latest schedule being no commercial shipments until 2019. So I guess that puts TSMC ahead for now if it can deliver this in volume without problems.
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I've started comparing based on transistor density, rather than process size,
Nice approach.
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If you have gone from 7nm to 1nm, you will have 49x as much space for the number of CPU, GPU and ML cores.
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They are probably both being manufactured at the same TSMC foundry using the same 7nm process.
Really, this is just a pissing contest that nobody actually cares about.
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Born in Jamaica. (true fact, look it up)
I want to point out that you have never, ever seen Donald Trump's birth certificate. Maybe he hates immigrants the way Republican senators hate gays: by being one of them
photoshop on your phone (Score:3)
your AI can now do photoshop AI off line and also helkp you find cats in your photos.
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Any real world exames of what will be done with that?
Maybe it will finally help Huawei allay their battery fears, so they can stop crippling the OS (killing important background apps and services). The summary mentioned a big efficiency improvement, and that means less heat and less battery consumption.
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IIRC, Apple uses it to tag your photos.
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Here's an example what you could with the camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Pretty cool, looks like a semi-HDR approach based on aperture bracketing (per Google, Depth of Field bracketing) rather than time bracketing (I've done that).
Instead of color matching for highlights (time bracketing) they compare the focus differences (and somehow color correct, maybe a normalized light level based on the input/output images).
What's most interesting to me is that it shows us what "AI" is about at this time. It isn't self aware. It isn't making decisions. It isn't free learning.
AI today i
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The real loser is Intel (Score:4, Informative)
the real winner is TSMC, which is making all three processors.
And the real loser is Intel, if these 7nm parts actually do come to market in volume without yield issues. Nobody knows that for sure until it actually happens, at least nobody who is talking. We will know the answer in a month or so, and then we will know that Intel really did manage to turn its historical two year process lead into a one year lag.
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>and then we will know that Intel really did manage to turn its historical two year process lead into a one year lag
Well that's why BK lost his job.
Doing a corporate 'let us have all those within 2 years of retirement leave right now' routine in the middle of trying to bring 10nm yields up, and thus losing all the most experienced people was a stunningly bad move.
FWIW, Intel is selling 10nm product today that is more dense than the '7nm' product that no one is selling today. So it's more of a leveling th
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Intel is selling 10nm product today...
Which product is that?
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Looks like only sample quantities, I doubt that any product currently ships with it.
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You just love to make declarations that are easily proven wrong [digitaltrends.com], don't you?
Nobody can deny that Intel is having major problems with 10nm production, but you just can't resist projecting your biases onto a reality that stubbornly refuses to conform, can you?
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You just love to make declarations that are easily proven wrong [digitaltrends.com]
OK, prove your point then. I hope you understand the difference between announced and available. Show me where I can get this part on Newegg.
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Again your reading comprehension fails you. It was released in May in China. Whether you personally can buy it on Newegg is not the measure of whether "any product currently ships with it."
I mean, you wrote the standard. At least pretend to live up to it. Funny how everyone needs to prove things to you, while you accept your own speculation as gospel. Widespread r
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It was released in May in China. Whether you personally can buy it on Newegg is not the measure of whether "any product currently ships with it."
Show evidence that the product is available anywhere, including China, or stop drivelling. BTW, Intel also announced a NUC with the part, also not available. The China argument doesn't let you weasel out of that one. Good luck.
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I did. The article, and all the others reporting the listing on jd.com. You show evidence that it was not.
For about one more week [simplynuc.com].
I don't need to weasel, you said you doubted that "any product currently ships with it." The Lenovo 330c-15ICN is "any product." Multiple places reported upon the lis
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You showed a product announcement, you did not show evidence of product availability. It's clear you are talking out your ass, but that's perfectly understandable because that is where your head is, fortunately a pretty good fit for a weasel. Now see if you can actually buy this NUC. [anandtech.com]
You can't, even if they do sell to weasels.
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That's not a product announcement [jd.com], Billy boy. That there's a buy-it page. If you'd actually read the articles saying that it was available back in May [zdnet.com], you might have figured that out by now.
Wow. You found an article describing the very NUC that I linked to in the post that you replied to. It's like you're after-the-fact psychic.
I can buy it now. Pay them money, get a receipt, a
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That chinese site says "shipped by Lenovo". Go to Lenovo's site and search for Ideapad 330. There are six models, none of them have Cannon Lake. You know why? Because it isn't available, it only ever was available in sample quantities. The NUC site you snivelled about says "this product is expected to ship by Mid September." Expected. By who, you? Your ferret friends? And if you think it will actually ship in mid-september that you are even stupider than you sound, and that's saying something
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You couldn't find it? By searching English language media in the US? Big surprise. I could. [lenovo.com] Note the release date: 08 May 2018.
Oddly everyone can find info about this [laptopmedia.com], except for you.
P.S. Do you think people reading your near continual stream of insults truly believe that you have the upper hand, or recognize the signs of someone failing miserably at defending an indefensible position?
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You linked to a driver, not a computer. Don't believe me that Cannon Lake is not available? Then maybe you will believe your Apple friends. [appleinsider.com]
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That would be a support page for a computer. But thanks for playing your usual "I won't believe clear evidence shoved in my face" denial of reality.
Don't believe you. Don't believe them. Totally believe the jd.com page listing for a computer model supported by Lenovo with a Lenovo-stated release date and specs appearing all over the internet.
BTW: Apple Insider are not m
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a computer model supported by Lenovo with a Lenovo-stated release date and specs appearing all over the internet...
...that Lenovo's site doesn't list. Idiot.
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Four minutes after you wrote "bye." That's gotta be a record.
I don't recall your requirement that the manufacturer list the device in the place of your choosing. Or even in English. Moving the goalposts yet again?
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Show me how to buy that laptop from Lenovo's site, like their other shipping products. Oh, you can't.
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Not a requirement in your standard of "any product currently ships with it."
Moved goalposts, meet immovable end zone.
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So you failed.
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Quoting misfire! Let's try again.
Not a requirement in your standard of "any product currently ships with it."
Moved goalposts, meet immovable end zone.
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Not all all. I meant to do that. Prove otherwise. (TM) Tough Love, all rights reserved.
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That's probably what you say when you fart too, but you still smell bad.
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Ah, so now we're back to the content-free insults. Where's your proof?
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If you need proof that you smell bad, just breath in.
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Nope. Body of a rock god that smells like an Alpine breeze.
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But you are obsessed, why is that? Simplest explanation: you're nuts. No doubt you explain it differently to yourself.
Re: The real loser is Intel (Score:2)
I`m obsessed?! Says the one who has three times now written "bye," yet does not leave. I`m amusing myself while watching TMitHC. You`ve stopped making claims that call for researched rebuttals and lapsed into inane insults, so it`s not taking actual time and effort...
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Obsessed and delusional.
Re: The real loser is Intel (Score:2)
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.
meanwhile... (Score:2, Interesting)
The complexity of the physics and chemistry, the enormous manufacturing engineering effort and the management coordination required to direct the billions of dollars in capital necessary to achieve that is mind-boggling. Six point nine billion transistors onto a one-square-centimeter chip. It's at times like this when it seems we are finally living in the future. Electric cars, re-usable space rockets, 3D printed titanium.
Meanwhile, FEMA finally found [cnn.com] the 20,000 pallets of potable water bottles it shippe
"Free market" in health (Score:2)
WRONG. The shortcomings in US health care is due to LACK of free markets ("free" doesn't mean free of regulation), not free markets themselves
I agree from the point of view that the "demand" in the health sector basically isn't free but locked : you don't get to decide when you're sick or not, but private companies (inssurances, private hospitals, etc.) can freely decide how exactly they'll fuck you up.
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I sometimes think if "the aliens" ever did come down (which they won't , I have pretty strong doubts about the UFO guff) , their impression will be something like;-
"Well, these guys are centuries away from FTL, they've got some garbage ideas about how to run a planet, their still pumping CO2 into the air, and dear god what the hell is with this war business.
All in all, a primative, aggressive backwards ass planet. With one major exception. They've come absolutely miles with their computing abilities
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Or pack it in a way that it is not hit by sunlight, e.g. a small cask of thin wood around each pallet.
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You think you live in a capitalist free market?
Interesting.
I assume you also think it is somehow good that you paid your government to produce, store, then ship 20,000 pallets of water to PuertoRico, but that no one in that same government gave a shit about them actually being used to help anyone, because the profit had been made, the tickboxes had been ticked, and the bureaucrats all got their good feelz on.
BTW, and I suspect it is over your head, TSMC is producing all of these chips - do you know what the
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Anyone who has used FedEx will likely beg to differ. The fact of the matter is that there are things that the public sector does significantly better than the private sec
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"Bionic" chip? What? Why? (Score:2)
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That's not bionic, that sounds more parasitic.
Besides, using an operating system to accept input from a human doesn't make that system bionic, or else every home computer ever made would qualify as bionic.
"Bionic" is a portmanteau of biology and electronic. Anything that doesn't encompass those two, functioning together as if they were a *SINGLE* thing, not merely one accessing the other, is not bionic
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Perhaps because it contains a core for handling artificial neural networks?
if it didn't have something that connected to or operated in cooperation with a living organism?
Because they don't find that a fitting definition for bionic?
In german bionic means: mimicked after a living organism, not interacting/cooperating with one.