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Data Storage Windows Cloud Microsoft Operating Systems Space Technology

Windows 10 Will Use the Cloud To Free Up Disk Space (arstechnica.com) 204

The next update to Windows 10, due to be released in October, will be smarter about how it frees up disk space and cleans up temporary files. Ars Technica reports: As part of its Storage Sense feature, Windows will be able to automatically remove the local copies of OneDrive files (unless they've been set as always available offline). The operating system will determine which files to remove based on when they were opened: files used more recently than a certain number of days will be retained locally, while those that haven't been used will be replaced with placeholders. The system will remove files until the operating system reckons it has enough free space for normal operation.

Storage Sense will also be able to remove temporary or otherwise unneeded files such as system logs and image thumbnails. It will also be able to remove old files from the download directory. The temporary-file cleanup (which can also remove certain cache files, driver packages, old anti-virus definitions, and more) was previously handled by the Disk Cleanup tool. That tool is now deprecated, as Storage Sense does everything it used to do and more. Storage Sense can perform its cleanup process periodically (every day, week, or month) or automatically whenever the system is low on disk space.

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Windows 10 Will Use the Cloud To Free Up Disk Space

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  • by lophophore ( 4087 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @08:49PM (#57294108) Homepage

    That's all I need, files magically disappearing from my local media.

    Thanks but no thanks.

    • And Microsoft promising not to leak your files or snoop in them. Oh wait, will they even promise that.

      • And Microsoft promising not to leak your files or snoop in them. Oh wait, will they even promise that.

        Microsoft... still evil. Not changed at all.

    • by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:13PM (#57294230)

      "Storage Sense can perform its cleanup process periodically (every day, week, or month) or automatically whenever the system is low on disk space."

      That's a great feature.

      If it's 1987.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by jawtheshark ( 198669 ) *
          While I do think all this Cloud stuff is stupid, you think about the wrong devices. Think of the cheap laptops and tablets that come with 32GB or 64GB eMMC as main storage. 32GB is filled by Windows itself, if you look funny at it. With 64GB you have a bit more leeway, but even that fills up quickly depending on usage.

          It's slow, it's crappy and I advice against getting such machines (I have a Chinese tablet with 64GB, split up in something like 40GB for Win10 and 20GB for Android or so... The specs are

        • Maybe it's a corporate Windows setting, but over time Windows (\Windows\Installer) on my work PC has expanded to occupy 55% drive. It can't get more because the drive is always 99% full, even after all User files have been moved to an external drive. If I free up a few GB, Windows has filled it within a week. This may be our IT contractor's fault (their answer: wipe and reload!), but it's still a Windows annoyance.

          I can imaging Windows automatically uploading ALL user files to the cloud as it makes roo
    • by TurboStar ( 712836 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @11:33PM (#57294772)

      That's all I need, files magically disappearing from my local media. Thanks but no thanks.

      Don't enable the "Files On-Demand" function and it'll make every file available always."Files On-Demand" is there today but all it does is, for example, not download a file you created on PC#1 to PC#2 until you try to access it on PC#2. The new feature uses access statistics to do things more automatically if you let it. No reason to think your files will magically disappear. There's plenty of reasons to not use OneDrive, but this isn't one of them.

      • Or just don't use OneDrive, or any cloud service.

        • Yes you won't have files magically disappear if they have never appeared on your device in the first place. Bring back the hour long IrDA transfers! Woot.

      • Don't enable the "Files On-Demand" function and it'll make every file available always.

        That thud you just heard was my jaw dropping to the floor. How many times does Microsoft have to ignore user settings before people stop using the, "your Microsoft ass reaming is a selectable option that Microsoft will always honor"?

      • Don't enable the "Files On-Demand" function and it'll make every file available always.

        I think you're missing the point. There's no sane reason to let a 3rd party decide if you need stuff or not, and the fact the company is doing this strongly suggests they have an agenda. Combine this with the massive push many companies are making to get people addicted to the cloud, plus the rise of EULA changes that automatically opt you in to certain behavior, making you jump through hoops to opt out, and it should be clear this feature is not being implemented for the benefit of end users.

        In other wor

    • by jrumney ( 197329 )
      Even if you don't use OneDrive, they will most likely start popping up ads for it whenever you access competing services, or your own hard drive.
    • by pnutjam ( 523990 )
      This would have been super useful updating my kids 32GB tablet/computers. I had to dig deep to make enough room.
  • by Ziest ( 143204 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:00PM (#57294162) Homepage

    From a company that still has not figured out how security works.

    • security (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bagofbeans ( 567926 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:03PM (#57294182)

      Oh, MS knows how security works. Their income security, their relationship security with Big Surveillance.

    • From a company that still has not figured out how security works.

      [Citation Required] Can you point to an example of a breach of the OneDrive service? Or their cloud service in general? I mean sure I can come up with examples from Amazon and Apple, but when you make a claim like that you should be prepared to back it up.

  • Fortunately, you can still save locally, in Documents, at least for now. There should also be a way to sync all OneDrive files and turn off this overbearing behavior.

    Just because you didn't use a file recently doesn't mean it's less important, and it wouldn't be nice to find out it was deleted when you're doing a presentation somewhere with poor Internet access...

  • sigh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by devslash0 ( 4203435 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:04PM (#57294186)
    I've said this before but OS-as-a-service does not work. Windows is currently unsuitable for any serious business use. It's becoming an always-online, uncontrollable and unpredictable data harvesting tool. You simply cannot use it offline anymore and with this "feature" it is now pure garbage.
    • Windows 10 is annoying, but you can still choose not to save to OneDrive at all. OneDrive is basically a single folder under the main user folder.
      • by Calydor ( 739835 )

        So you choose that today. Then Windows runs an update, decides it knows best, and resets the flag to "Save all files older than 12 hours online instead of offline."

        This is YET another setting you need to check every single time Windows has an update to make sure it didn't get reset. Do you enjoy that game of whack-a-mole to make sure your computer does what you want it to do rather than what some faceless corporation wants?

      • ...but you can still choose not to save to OneDrive at all.

        I refer you to the selectable option to not downgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 as a reference to how much Microsoft cares about your choices.

    • I dual boot Windows and Linux at work, mostly using Linux. On rare occasion when I have to reboot into Windows it seems to take around 20 min to process whichever update it tried to apply last time I shut it down, wasting time. I'm not a fan of that little feature and the inability to control when updates occur.

    • Windows

      Which Windows? The shitty little consumer versions (which incidentally allow you to disable this feature we are talking about). Or the Windows versions actually designed for business which have none of the problems you complain about?

      You simply cannot use it offline anymore and with this "feature" it is now pure garbage.

      I have a better assertion for you: Ignorant people shouldn't use computers for business.

  • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:06PM (#57294194) Journal
    In the hypothetical world where Comcast imposes tight control and strict bandwidth caps on my SATA bus; while I'm free to purchase copious, low-latency, WAN options from a reasonably competitive market this would be ideal.

    As it is, I'm sure 'Cortana guesses which files you don't really need access to right now' will be a hilarious game for the whole family.
    • If you don't want C*ntana deciding for you, just save the files locally, not in your ~User\OneDrive folder.
  • by devslash0 ( 4203435 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:06PM (#57294202)
    ...all the Store crap it installed without anyone's permission.
    • Why do you leave suggested apps enabled? Do you enable it just so you have something to complain about?

    • Or all the crap from Windows/Temp or Windows/winsxs. The former is all of the random crud from installs and updates (much like /tmp/). The latter is the pre-install downloaded patches and updates - which is kept around for god knows how long "just in case" something goes wrong. I've seen 50GB taken up between them, and their automated cleanup tool doesn't help. The winsxs folder in particular requires SYSTEM access to clean up.

  • Seeing the low price of local storage this is only for those not caring for recurring cost, privacy, speed or reliability.
    I'll just stay with Kubuntu.
  • by Jason1729 ( 561790 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:15PM (#57294244)
    In a world where 14TB hard drives are under $500, 10TB hard drives are under $300, and small hard drives are under $40, and all are much, much faster than internet storage....why the hell would anyone be stupid enough to think this is a good idea?

    Even 1TB SSDs are below $150 and good brands at $160. Even for an ultrabook user, you'd have to be an idiot to want this.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by theurge14 ( 820596 )

      Because the common desktop/laptop user out there still to this day does not backup files from their hard drives.

      How many times over the years has someone handed you their old busted laptop and asked you if you could please recover all their old photos from there please?

      • How many times over the years has someone handed you their old busted laptop and asked you if you could please recover all their old photos from there please?

        Soon to be replaced with someone handing you their old busted laptop and asking if you can recover all their old photos from the Cloud that Microsoft unilaterally decided to delete. Or if you can recover the mission-critical programs that no longer run because Microsoft unilaterally decided you needed to buy them all over again. Or that Microsoft unilaterally decided were too much of a threat to allow to run at all.

        Yeah, this is a tremendously stupid idea for end users, and a great idea for Microsoft.

        Of c

    • Exactly. For iphones it makes sense only because apple doesn't give the user a way to expand their storage and also because storing your photos on the cloud gives you a backup when/if your phone gets lost/stolen/destroyed. For desktop, online backup makes sense but if you've bought your computer in the last decade then you should have ample storage and if you don't then you probably need to spend the $40 needed to upgrade your computer. Anybody who needs more than the default amount of storage likely nee

    • To properly store data, you need at least 3 hard drives..
      • This article is not about backup methodology. It's about storing your files *only* in MS cloud servers, trusting them 100% to safely back it up and make it available whenever you need it. Ignoring that your own internet might not have 100% uptime either.

        With local storage being so insanely cheap these days, it's just an idiotic idea that only benefits MS.
    • Sure I'll just slot that 14TB HDD into my 8mm thick device to say nothing of my mobile phone.

      In other words, don't be silly. The size of 3.5" HDDs have nothing to do with the benefits of any cloud service used on devices much smaller than the HDDs you are quoting.

  • by AmazingRuss ( 555076 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:34PM (#57294316)

    This is the best idea since integrating Windows Explorer into Internet Explorer.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft making a decision like this displays the same sort of arrogance as Apple deleting the headphone port from its iPhones.

    Fuck the people who make such asinine narrow-minded decisions, fuck their products, fuck their companies, and fuck the horse they rode in on.

  • Man you idiots (Score:5, Insightful)

    by n3r0.m4dski11z ( 447312 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:47PM (#57294382) Homepage Journal

    Look i hate microsoft, i hate windows 10, but I do have to support it. Out of control onedrive files, especially on a multi user computer, is a constant plague. People just dont set their files online only. They just dont. Having the OS manage that for them should have been a feature YEARS ago.

    40gb in a teams filestore is like no problem for anyone but me. Now thats replicated to 20 people in a department, wasting all that local storage space and BANDWIDTH. So yes, microsoft finally got around to FIXING an obvious undersight and all you people see is "microsoft" and "cloud" and "delete" and are all like nooope! without actually thinking or knowing what you guys are talking about.

    This is a windows admin's dream if you use teams or onedrive, which face it, many companies are moving to for various reasons i wont get into. Most features they put out are ass and break things, and this may be as well, but on paper it would be a HUGE help.
    Look at the list of what its deleting. All temp files. We have fileshares, cloud and on premises, so people dont have anything local on their machines. They can be reimaged or stolen or surged. And they need to be cleaned, manually, when their disks fill up with cache files that the OS should be dealing with!

    • OK, I'm missing somethign (really). You have 40gb, duplicated by 20 people - or 800GB of data . Isn't that about $20 in disk space, $40 if you have backups?

      I can see how the bandwidth could be an issue to update everyone, but as long as they are using onedrive for general files, no cache or large databases, (which shold be handled differently), is there really that much bandwidth? If there is, then maybe one drive is the wrong tool for that team.

      I find it very convienent to keep all my work and home co

      • I never understood this about sharing between computers. If the file isn't on my work computer then I don't work on it unless I have my work computer. When I go home, I am home and not at work, I will not do my job on my home computer. When I'm at work, I don't do my home stuff on my work computer either. When I am commuting I am not working either. If I travel for work I take my work computer with me. And my phone and tablet have nothing whatsoever to do with work anyway beyond basic phone calls and si

        • I'm working on readout systems for radio telescopes, so I may be developing on my work desktop, but I may have to make some changes from my laptop on site (which could be in an internet-free location). I often work from home and on travel because I rather enjoy my work and because its pretty much expected in this community.

          • Ah ok. It seems like the last decade or so most companies have been giving out laptops instead of desktops, so that the one computer is both the main and the mobile computer.

            • Sometimes that works, but I generally want a laptop that is small enough to use in a coach airline seat, and that generally means a pretty low performance computer.

              • Macbook Pro is pretty light, and Macbook Air is only slightly less powerful and you're not going to find much smaller than that.

  • (rolls eyes) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by commodore64_love ( 1445365 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @09:48PM (#57294390) Journal

    Windows 10 already eats WAY too much of my internet connection on its stupid updates. (No I don't need an update of Internet Edge, because I never use it.... where's the stupid "turn updates off" option?) It slows everything down, such that I can't even load Youtube and watch a video until the update is finished.

    Now they want to offload tempt files across my line too? Come on! I truly hate this company (and that hatred goes back to 1990).

    Microsoft: Please stop sucking. Please treat your users & their computers with RESPECT instead of your personal servants.

    • .... where's the stupid "turn updates off" option? [alltechbuzz.net]

      1. Disable Windows Update Service or
      2. Setup A Metered Connection

    • by GLowder ( 622780 )
      EXACTLY! Just yesterday was an article on how those in rural areas often felt broadband options were lacking. Well I'm one of those. Phantom update downloads happen at our house across the numerous computers we have throughout the family. Often exactly when someone wants to watch something or can't figure out where the lag is coming from while playing games. Now MS want's to start using my precious bandwidth to move my files offsite? It would be one thing if I was sitting on a 100MB connection and did
      • by zekica ( 1953180 )
        Looks like https://www.bufferbloat.net/pr... [bufferbloat.net] would help a lot on your DSL line. It can be used on any openwrt compatible router https://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/h... [openwrt.org] . Also, a lot of Asus routers compatible with asuswrt-merlin have it https://github.com/RMerl/asusw... [github.com] It will help with games a lot - you will see about 30ms increased latency (time to send one full size packet at 0.5Mbps) when uploading over idle, and up to 50ms of increased latency when downloading (most of the time only about 5ms increased but
    • by e r ( 2847683 )
      If you're still using Windows then you have no one to blame but yourself.
      If you're not using Windows then why do you care?
    • Now they want to offload tempt files across my line too?

      No. Now they provide you the option to do so. But don't let that get in the way of your fake rage.

    • Windows 10 already eats WAY too much of my internet connection on its stupid updates. (No I don't need an update of Internet Edge, because I never use it.... where's the stupid "turn updates off" option?) It slows everything down, such that I can't even load Youtube and watch a video until the update is finished.

      Now they want to offload tempt files across my line too? Come on! I truly hate this company (and that hatred goes back to 1990).

      Microsoft: Please stop sucking. Please treat your users & their computers with RESPECT instead of your personal servants.

      win + r, gpedit.msc
      Poke around and change some settings, it's pretty well documented what each flag/option does. Then again, if you can't be bothered to google for an answer to your questions, then I doubt this comment would be much help either.

  • Could have sworn I heard a story about a guy who had home made porn backed up on his one drive, account terminated for violations?

  • No one flies on airliners, or does work in locations with minimal or no internet connectivity. I'm sure there is a way to turn it off, but now I'm going to have to spend time making absolutely sure that it really is off and that I'm not going to lose access to files when I'm at a remote site. (by which time its too late to do anything about it).

    • People trying to work while on an airplane need to learn how to relax and let it go. It's one really great excuse for not working and finally getting some extra sleep and people want to waste that? I was on one flight and once the plane took off the pair in front of me said "ok, let's get started on our presentation". What the hell, finish the presentation before you get on the plane so that it doesn't look like a crappy presentation you cobbled together on a plane.

      People just don't know how to relax. W

  • by Snotnose ( 212196 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @10:22PM (#57294538)
    I don't have a single file in the cloud. Why? Because I know that storing stuff in the cloud means "storing it on someone else's computer". I have enough disk space, and I'm not a selfie-holic, that local storage isn't an issue. I burn stuff I care about to a thumb drive every month or so, and store important stuff to a NAS. A fire at home could wipe out all my data (except maybe for the 64G thumb drive in my pocket), but anything short of that and I'm good. Then again, I sleep naked and if I had a fire I'd look for the cat first, then my pants. YMMV.
    • Put a backup thumb drive on the cat's collar.

    • I don't have a single file in the cloud. Why? Because I know that storing stuff in the cloud means "storing it on someone else's computer".

      For most people, someone else's computer is more secure and better backed up than their own.

      I have enough disk space, and I'm not a selfie-holic, that local storage isn't an issue. I burn stuff I care about to a thumb drive every month or so, and store important stuff to a NAS.

      That's not a reason not to use a cloud service. If anything that's a reason to setup OwnCloud or Seafile on your NAS box and turn up your nose at plebs seeking commercial services. Until now, the existence of Cloud services has had nothing to do with disk space at all.

      A fire at home could wipe out all my data

      Well I was wrong. Looks like someone else's computer does it better than you too.

  • by Scutter ( 18425 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @10:30PM (#57294574) Journal

    How about instead of randomly deleting my personal files off of my personal device, you start moving your own "rarely used" files? C:\Windows\WinSXS is a perennial problem. You can't tell me that you need all that SXS data available at a moment's notice. What about the SoftwareDistribution directory? What about all of your uninstallers and other crap that fills up my Windows directory? How about let's look at moving that stuff to the cloud first, eh?

    • How about instead of randomly deleting

      It's not random.

      you start moving your own "rarely used" files? C:\Windows\WinSXS is a perennial problem.

      The principle idea is to not move anything to the cloud that would require the system to keep functioning. Why not delete that folder and see how far you get?

      What about the SoftwareDistribution directory? What about all of your uninstallers and other crap that fills up my Windows directory? How about let's look at moving that stuff to the cloud first, eh?

      No need. Cloud backup is the last of the steps for cleaning disk space. It is done *after* the cleanup of the very files you are talking about. You won't see you files clouded and deleted due to disk space while there are still uninstallers or past windows versions present as long as they are past their brief retention period. But hey I

  • by not-quite-rite ( 232445 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @10:53PM (#57294656) Homepage Journal

    The biggest pain is having to rely upon third party tools to try and shrink the size of a Windows install. Why not move so many of the bullshit folders into the cloud instead? That way User information can be kept protected and not uploaded, and since every Windows install has the same bullshit folders taking up extra space, why not leave them in the cloud til needed?

    Crazy to need external storage to perform a Windows update when it should do everything to shrink itself first before requiring users to move files. I had to work to find spare space on a Surface device when it was trying to update, which had practically nothing on it.

    (Which is why it's my only Windows device in the house - well besides VM's of course...)

  • So you can mark which files you want to keep locally.

    Wonderful.

    Is there anybody so naive they doubt for one second that the moment you turn your back, Win10 will revert to a default setting where Microsoft will decide which files should be on your computer, and which files should be on theirs?

    When the time comes that Win 7 becomes utterly untenable, I will grit my teeth and move to Linux. I will not have this operating system in my home or my business, patiently waiting to become a gatekeeper standing be

    • But how can it move files to the cloud when I don't have any cloud account? I also thought you had to manually place files into OneDrive folder before it showed up in OneDrive.

  • by scdeimos ( 632778 ) on Tuesday September 11, 2018 @11:09PM (#57294704)

    ... all the temporary folders created by programs in the %LOCALAPPDATA% folder hierarchy.

    e.g.: Whenever you open a file attachment in Outlook it gets saved into [C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\INetCache\Content.Outlook\H83V4PYQ], which is not your temp folder [C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Temp] and, despite the [INetCache] in there, this folder does not get touched by cache clean up in Internet Options.

    None of this gets cleaned up by the Disk Cleanup Wizard and I doubt this new tool will help with that either.

    • One good reason to never use Outlook at home.

      • If only it were just Outlook. All Microsoft applications do the same thing (just different folders), instead of using the %TEMP% folder like they tell all of us to use.

        It's gotten worse since the "Program Data" folder became a thing as third party developers decided that was a great place to stash all of their temp files instead of the %TEMP% folder.

        The great thing about Standards is everyone has their own.

        • I think they write up the coding guidelines for third party developers after they've already finished their own software. I am amazed at how all of their sample code is complete shit and breaks most of their own guidelines.

  • Just When disk drives and SSDs were getting so small!!! Its not about saving space, its about being able to save it in a safe place.
  • One of the ways Microsoft cripple cheap laptops is they only give a cheap Windows licence to laptops with only 32gb of space. Of course most of it is taken up by candy crush clones. If Microsoft just let laptops use normal storage capacities this cloud bollocks won’t be needed.
  • Microsoft has NO way of knowing when I'll be going offline or what files I will be needing when I do. This is just one more shitty idea piled on top of an already enormous mountain of shitty ideas wrapped with shit. How about instead Microsoft stops filling up my disk with useless untouchable and opaque shit and let me decide when the system is working fine or when to restore from an actual backup? No matter what kind of idiocy they implement into their operating systems or cloud services it can never repla
  • The trouble with the Cloud is that eventually you run out of other people's computers

  • Storage Sense will also be able to remove temporary or otherwise unneeded files such as system logs and image thumbnails.

    Awesome. There's nothing as useful as having system logs in the cloud when you're trying to troubleshoot connectivity issues.

  • The idea behind OneDrive is to store your files on Microsoft servers, so that you can access them from anywhere you have access to Microsoft servers, with your account. Don't like it, you are free to use local storage, your own NAS, or another "cloud" provider.

    To avoid requiring permanent access to Microsoft servers, decrease latency, stay compatible with "offline" apps, etc... the files are copied to local storage. But from a purely user perspective it doesn't matter, you are working "in the cloud". The lo

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