EU Regulators To Study Need For Action on Common Mobile Phone Charger (reuters.com) 230
EU regulators plan to study whether there is a need for action in the push for a common mobile phone charger following a lack of progress by phone makers towards this goal, EU competition chief Margrethe Vestager said. From a report: The European Commission has been pushing for a common charger for nearly a decade as it cited the more than 51,000 tons of electronic waste yearly from old chargers as well as the inconvenience to consumers. iPhone and Android users have long complained about using different chargers for their phones.
Do they mean the cable? (Score:3)
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Even the Cable, You either have Micro-USB, USB-C or Thunderbolt (for Apple)
The direction that Apple is going in as well with others, is wireless charging. So we can have the wireless charger with a normal USB to Micro USB connection.
Because size isn't an issue with a charging station.
Re:Do they mean the cable? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Being that most phones even with heavy usage can be charged over night and last a full day. The usage while wired is less of a concern then it has been. With incremental upgrade. I am sure that wireless charging will be the future. Especially if such devices can get a full 48 hour usage off of them.
Re:Do they mean the cable? (Score:5, Informative)
Pokemon Go players disagree... I need to keep my phone constantly charging if I'm playing for more than an hour or so or the battery won't last the day.
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Hearthstone, too. If I'm killing time for an afternoon, I'll play on the phone, and I keep it continuously connected to power, because as you say, the batteries are an order of magnitude too small to be practical for gaming.
Re:Do they mean the cable? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry pal, your real world usage patterns get in the way of our aesthetic principles. We're making the BRAVE and COURAGEOUS design choices necessary to realize a more perfect world. Just deal with it, bro.
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Same, especially when running a hotspot so my kids can play too on the cheapest android device I could find them that supported pokemon go :)
I already have by external batteries charged for community day this weekend :)
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Add to it that wireless charging also is relatively inefficient and in the era of power saving demands where we chase after high efficiency and minimal magnetic fields it seems to be a pretty nasty idea.
apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes (Score:3, Insightful)
apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes
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I so hope the EU will do something about that! Ridiculous nonsense.
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Don't forget Lightning. Apple only adopted Thunderbolt for their laptops.
Re:Do they mean the cable? (Score:5, Funny)
My bad I got them confused. I guess the Lightning cable came out before Thunderbolt. Because light travels faster then sound.
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Well if you're going to bring up the speed of light, it's important to mention that Thunderbolt was originally named Light Peak and designed to work optically. And somehow it went from that to copper and just co-opting Displayport and USB in the next few revisions.
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USB 3 was also originally going to be optical. These mistakes have a tendency to correct themselves.
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Thunderbolt is an Intel technology (handed to them by Apple, if you believe the rumors). You can find it on a number of motherboards with recent Intel chipsets. Apple was the first PC manufacturer to adopt it, but they're by no means the only one, and with Intel dropping royalties on Thunderbolt a few months back it's expected that we'll be seeing native support for Thunderbolt on AMD boards as well in the not-too-distant future as well.
Yes, about power connectors (Score:5, Interesting)
Correct. This EU study relates to the different connectors used by different makes and models of mobile device. Smartphones use three (USB micro-B, USB C, and Lightning), dumbphones and laptops generally use different sizes and voltages of barrel connector, and handheld video game consoles have their own proprietary power connectors (GBA SP/Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite, Nintendo DSi/3DS).
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Smartphones use three (USB micro-B, USB C, and Lightning)
Lightning is being phased out. USB micro-B is most common. USB C is the future. The market is already converging. Regulation may have made sense a decade ago to nudge the manufacturers along, but is mostly pointless today.
The source of much waste is the excess numbers of cables and chargers, not the type. I already have dozens of USB dongles and cables. I don't need yet another included with every gadget I buy. They should be sold separately, so only those who need them can to buy them.
Also, 51,000 t
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Lightning is being phased out.
Source: "Report: Apple actively seeking to phase out Lightning connector on future iPhones" by Jesse Hollington [ilounge.com]
USB micro-B is most common. USB C is the future.
But how long until those converge?
The source of much waste is the excess numbers of cables and chargers, not the type.
The last time standardization on micro-B was studied a few years ago, the intent was that reducing the types would end up reducing the number. If a manufacturer can assume that the user is far more likely than not to already have an appropriate cable, the manufacturer can leave the cable out of the bundle. Otherwise, manufacturers still conclude "We need to includ
Re: Yes, about power connectors (Score:3, Insightful)
Had they not threatened it then we'd have the same situation as laptops where you can't even get a standard power supply for different laptops from the same manufacturer.
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It was EU action that forced the industry to standardize on Micro-USB before USB-C came out.Phones converged because of the EU but then splintered again when USB-C showed up and Apple brought lightening to the table. Hopefully it will reconverge around USB-C but if not the EU will hopefully force that.
The EU also needs to act on combining phone/laptop chargers around USB-C for smaller laptops and a standard connector for larger power needs. We've still got hundreds of different connectors on laptops for no
Re:Yes, about power connectors (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly you have forgotten the state of affairs before the EU pressured manufacturers the last time, back when even different models from the same manufacturer had their own special snowflake chargers. Without that, they wouldn't be USB at all.
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The market looked like it was converging a decade ago and didn't. Manufacturers were told to sort it out, and didn't.
51k tonnes/year of electronic waste is significant. No need to excuse it with what-about-ism.
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So do we force the entire industry to switch to usb-c or micro-b? And does that mean we cannot come out with new tech until all mobile operators agree and are ready to switch over?
I cannot recall the last phone I had that used a non-standard charger. I have some wireless keyboards that use a different usb connector and that's annoying but I even see that less now.
I agree with ShanghaiBill. The reason there is so many cords disposed of is due to them being included with every device you buy. I have a wh
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In a way you're right. I too have loads of the bastards.
I try to have at least one of each type in the lounge, one of each type in my work bag and the rest live in my office/lair/lab, where I can never find the one I need even though I have at least nineteen of them because the place is a fucking tip.
But yet, you see them in stores. So presumably somebody is buying them, which implies somebody doesn't have one already.
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Or somebody has a rabbit in the house.
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I'm planning to tidy up next week. I wouldn't be surprised if I find at least one Japanese soldier who doesn't believe the wars over.
Re: Yes, about power connectors (Score:2)
Do you remember a time when there were different connectors for phones, even ones from the same manufacturer. I do. It was less than 10 years ago and consumers were being ripped off. Micro B isn't perfect but far better than the mess we had before. How would the magical market fairy dust have solved the issue?
Re:Yes, about power connectors (Score:5, Informative)
Manufacturers were told to sort it out, and didn't.
Swap the word Apple for Manufacturers and the picture becomes much clearer. Apple has resisted and rejected common connectors for all its history, and even as the world seemingly is converging on USB-C they drag their feet. More important to feed the trillion$ beast with sales of $50 adapters for everything.
Re:Yes, about power connectors (Score:4, Informative)
Piss and shit are organic and go away pretty quickly on their own. Heavy metals & plastic, not so much.
Spin the wheel ... your logical fallacy is: fake equivalence.
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The source of much waste is the excess numbers of cables and chargers, not the type. I already have dozens of USB dongles and cables. I don't need yet another included with every gadget I buy. They should be sold separately, so only those who need them can to buy them.
Not going to happen. The retail package needs to include everything you need to actually turn on and use the phone, so the power supply has to ship with it. As far as the cable goes, it's sweet that it's just a normal USB cable now, usually a good quality one. Never seem to have enough of those, they do die you know.
These days, you can't even count on people having a PC with usb ports to power your phone. PCs are getting rarer and usually can't deliver enough current for high speed charging.
Maybe some disco
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Is this a marketing axiom, a religious tenet, a legal requirement (where - believe it or not, laws vary from place to place) or did you just pull that out of your fat arse?
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I, for one, appreciate having an included cable. The cables have a finite life, so getting a spare cable is never a bad thing.
The wall adapter, on the other hand, I have way too many of.
The diaper thing was bogus. (Score:2)
Also, 51,000 tonnes per decade is negligible. We throw out many times that mass in disposable diapers EVERY DAY. Maybe the regulators should focus on something that actually matters.
The diaper thing turned out to be a bogus made-up scare number - as anybody who actually VISITED a landfill at the time could tell: "Where are all those diapers?" Disposable diapers (which, by the way, are biodegradable these days) were such a small part of the waste stream that you often couldn't spot any at all.
What comes ar
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Of course, it seems like they are assuming that all this electronic garbage is being generated due to the non-standard phone charger, which is silly. In my experience, cables fail routinely - what connector is at the end of the thing is irrelevant.
It would be a better argument if they were including devices like the Nintendo portables you mention, since the transformer is permanently connected to the charging cable itself. But they’re only looking at phones, and I can’t remember the last time I
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Of course, it seems like they are assuming that all this electronic garbage is being generated due to the non-standard phone charger, which is silly. In my experience, cables fail routinely - what connector is at the end of the thing is irrelevant.
My experience is the opposite but ends up with the same result. Every device comes with a free charger and free cable. After a few years, I have dozens of usb chargers and microusb cables. I have an entire box of microusb cables and I occasionally cull and throw out perfectly good chargers because I have more than I need. For phones, it's basically a non-issue. There are basically 2 cables, lightning and microusb, and then different chargers rated at different amps. I've noticed that some of my older
Also: They DO fail. Then there's exploits... (Score:2)
As long as chargers are cheap enough to be given away free with a new device, they will continue to be landfilled regardless of whether or not they are compatible with the new device.
Agreed.
Also: Sometimes they DO fail.
- - - -
One thing that really bugs me about using USB as a charging standard: You have to connect the data lines to negotiate a non-trivial charging rate.
This opens the opportunity to include a processor with exploit code in the charger and have it install spyware on the phone. (Russian int
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You must be a right clumsy bastard. I've had two fail, ever.
Now sometimes you get a particular USB cable which doesn't work with a particular device. Get a grown-up (a mohel if you can find one already) to trim a couple of mm off the insulation.
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If you have a High End Gaming Laptop you are going to need different power requirements then say an ultra book with an Atom Processor.
The issue seems to be the power connectors is less of an environmental concern then the batteries. or the devices themselves. For the most part Power Converters have the most recyclable parts in them. A lot of copper and metal.
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USB-C should be able to charge most stuff. With up to 100W of power delivery there are few devices that need more power or higher voltages.
Make everything USB-C. One day you won't even need to take your chargers with you, everywhere that has mains power will have USB-C 100W outlets too.
Re: Yes, about power connectors (Score:2)
Gaming laptops can use well over 100W. The power supply for mine provides 190. I'm sure it doesn't utilise every last watt but under heavy load I expect it's probably drawing 160+.
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That's why I said "most".
Things like monitors and small TVs, Bluetooth speakers, LED lamps, some games consoles, TV sound bars, external hard drives, low power computers, small kitchen appliances, wireless gamepads, battery chargers, stick battery cleaners... There are so many DC powered devices that could be USB-C.
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While that's true, high end gaming laptops[1] are somewhat out of the scope of this discussion.
I know people don't RTFA, but you could at least RTFT(ETBTS"MP").
[1] Note the lack of capitalization. Are you a fucking German or something?
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Re:Do they mean the cable? (Score:5, Interesting)
Even among the non-Apple devices there are still issues. The USB-Micro standard is fragile, uni-directional and has skinny-ass wires that can't cary much current for fast charging. The USB-C standard is anything but standard [digitaltrends.com] with a mixed bag of features and compatibility from device to device.
Apple's Lightening charger is nice that it works for all of Apple's recent handhelds and is reversible, but is incompatible for all the new laptops (USB-C). The Listening cable is also only good for ~2A of current meaning that fast charging is right out. But what good is a charging cable that only works one line of devices?
USB-C *could* be great and last us for the next 10 years if only the industry could standardize the standard. It would also be great if you could count on USB-C cables actually being 100% compliant and not worry that your E-Bay special was going to toast your new phone, or burn down your house [pcmag.com]. Judging by the plethora of shitty cables out there, I would guess that the standard is simply too expensive or too difficult to comply with.
I would definitely welcome a standard that could do something about the giant box of standard, half-standard, and proprietary cables that I've accumulated. We can do it with headphones and lights and HDMI cables (sort of), why can't we do it with phone and laptop chargers?
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IMO, those problems are mostly overblown.
Yes, there are Thunderbolt cables that look like USB but don't pass USB data, but unless you're one of those rare people who actually uses Thunderbolt, you'l
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IMO, those problems are mostly overblown.
Yes, there are Thunderbolt cables that look like USB but don't pass USB data, but unless you're one of those rare people who actually uses Thunderbolt, you'll never encounter one, so that's not a meaningful reason to be concerned.
Thunder cables are a different story entirely and work great for devices that support it. The Lightening cables are a totally worthless unless you're in the Apple handheld ecosystem. They're also pretty awful in that they can't do more than about 12W due to the skinny wires Apple chooses to use. This means you're stuck with slow charging for no good reason other than a fat cable isn't svelte and sexy.
And yes, it is possible for a crappy cable to reduce your charging speed by limiting the current. Buy quality cables and you won't have this problem.
I'd love to, but other than shopping directly from the Benson Approved site [bensonapproved.com], how can anyone know it's a qual
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The huge variation in quality indicates that most Chinese manufacturers will build the cheapest cables that they can get away with, and if that means you're capped at two amperes instead of three, as long as 90% of users don't no
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the only real problems I've had were caused by plugging blindly into a USB-C connection that goes through some random conference room table at work, only to find out that it is a 15W cell phone charger that obviously won't power a laptop.
The problem is the laptop, not the charger. Wintel has just fallen pitifully behind in terms of form factor. Displays are way more efficient than they used to be, processors too unless you are paying the Intel CISC tax. Are you running Fortnite on your laptop in the conference room? No? Then it is pathetic you can't run it on 15 watts.
This is Microsoft's doing.
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My laptop is a 15" MacBook Pro, so no, it isn't.
The screen alone draws more than 15 Watts, I believe.
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The issues with cheap cables could be fixed with better chargers that detect the faults. Some of the more recent power delivery ICs seem to implementing this.
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The USB-Micro standard is fragile, uni-directional and has skinny-ass wires that can't cary much current for fast charging. The USB-C standard is anything but standard.
USB-Micro is evil, I'm happy to see it in sunset. USB-C is sweet, good job guys.
I had to invest in a new set of cables, but the new connector is so much better, it's worth it. I have not had one bit of trouble with third party cables. I am careful to avoid the crap ones. That has always been a problem with cable suppliers, USB-C is hardly the worst. When I pick up a USB-C cable I'm looking for 3.1 gen 1 compatibility, at least. If I ever get a device that actually needs gen 2, I really don't mind if my phon
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The USB-Micro standard is fragile, uni-directional and has skinny-ass wires that can't cary much current for fast charging.
And yet fast charging works just fine.
The USB-C standard is anything but standard [digitaltrends.com] with a mixed bag of features and compatibility from device to device.
The USB-C standard is perfectly fine from a charging perspective and implimented 100% consistently on every mobile out there. It gets greyer on Laptops, but this isn't in scope.
Judging by the plethora of shitty cables out there, I would guess that the standard is simply too expensive or too difficult to comply with.
Wrong conclusion. Regardless of how simple and cheap you make something, someone will bring to market something non-compliant and shite. The standard has nothing to do with it.
Needed? (Score:2)
Wireless (Score:2)
I'm not sure how necessary this is going to be with more vendors jumping on board with wireless charging (Qi being a big winner).
Of course that doesn't tackle the situation where the Qi chargers themselves may need different cables (but I have yet to see one that isn't micro-USB).
Qi charger with clamp for home use? (Score:2)
Which Qi charger clamps to the phone so that you can use the phone while charging it? Google Search qi charger with clamp found a few car mounts like this, but nothing for home use.
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That's a good point, but if I leave my phone on the charger overnight I usually don't need to recharge for at least another 24 hours. Maybe I'm the exception.
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You're the one who never runs youtube on their phone.
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Will this result in a headache?
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Will this result in a headache?
Nah, my wife got those long before she put her wireless charger on the night stand.
too late (Score:2)
with the exception of crApple phones have pretty much used the USB standards for a while now. Not only that, the only difference is the charging speed depending on the amp the charging device is able to supply through the wire connected to the phone.
To little too late and most likely will only create more problems than it will solve by now.
Re: too late (Score:4, Interesting)
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It's pretty difficult to blame Apple for changing away from standards...
For you? Not for me, but hey, Apple customers enjoy pain, there is no other explanation.
Re: too late (Score:2)
I'm sure Slashdotter bitching is a major factor in Apple's design decisions
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Just let Apple sort this out for iPhones (if they even care that much) or force their hand to do it
Third alternative: just let Apple continue to suck, fine them from time to time, and let the marketplace punish them.
While I understand the clear benefit of a standard (Score:3)
E-waste (Score:3, Insightful)
Why should there be a law of any kind mandating that different manufacturers all use the same charger?
Because it's a consequence of the long-standing law against polluting the land and water with your e-waste. Or would you prefer to abolish that as well?
Re:E-waste (Score:5, Insightful)
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each phone will continue to come with a cable
The point of regulation like that described in the featured article is to make this no longer the case.
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The point of regulation like that described in the featured article is to make this no longer the case.
As long as chargers and cables are relatively cheap compared to the cost of the phone, manufacturers will continue to include them. Customers expect it, it costs very little, they don't have to worry as much about a cheap charger charging their nice new phone either too fast or too slow or a bunch of other things. It just makes for a better customer experience and costs very little. Same reason that many phones come with headphones.
Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan (Score:2)
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Apple (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be honest: there's just one company which shows "a lack of progress towards this goal" and that's Apple. All others have already transitioned or are transitioning from MicroUSB to USB-C.
Even certain modern "dumb" phones already come with a USB-C connector.
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That's just the form factor. It's a start. But if you want more than 500mA, there are multiple competing proprietary options for how to deliver higher current. USB Power Delivery is the favored choice, but there is Qualcomm Quickcharge, Samsung Adaptive Fast Charge, and more all still on the market.
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That's just the form factor. It's a start. But if you want more than 500mA, there are multiple competing proprietary options for how to deliver higher current. USB Power Delivery is the favored choice, but there is Qualcomm Quickcharge, Samsung Adaptive Fast Charge, and more all still on the market.
The reason that there are competing technologies is because they are each innovating. If you make everyone use only one quick charging standard then you halt progress on innovation on this front. You likely could be causing more problems that you are solving.
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True but they all work interchangeably regardless. You might lose some proprietary bonus like the fast charging you were talking about but you still get the standard usb charge.
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Charging a modern phone at 500mA is not really a reasonable option. So I might disagree with you there. Overnight charging leads to leaving the phone on the charger past the ideal 40-80% window for battery life.
Is this still a thing? (Score:2)
Isnt Usb C used by both android and apple now?
or stop buying Apple (Score:2)
Re:oh thank god (Score:4, Informative)
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How do those work? My phone has something similar, called Dash Charge, which uses USB-C and works as long as the charger supports it. What's the difference, if rapid charging like that is possible then why isn't it the norm?
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So is USB PD. You just have to have a PD-aware micro-USB cable (and, obviously, a PD-capable micro-USB device). That said, why would anyone want to continue using micro-B on new devices now that USB-C exists?
Re:Everything should go wireless (Score:5, Insightful)
Waste of electricity broadcasting power, short enough range to be nearly unusable, cannot use the phone while charging, cannot easily charge from a laptop while on the road, another piece of equipment that can get broken or lost and not easily replaced. Wireless is a shitty idea that's less convenient and costs more. No thanks.
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Your charger can get broken or lost easily so what's your point?
Duh. If I lose a USB charger I pretty much always have several at hand that can do the same job. Or I can beg some power from my neighbour. Leave your wireless charger in the hotel room and you are screwed unless you also have USB charging.
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Cannot use the phone while charging? I use mine while charging on my Galaxy Note 5. I charge it on the road with a wireless charger I installed on my cars dash and a wireless pad just as easy to toss in my travel bag as a cord is. I rarely use a cord anymore.
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You will eventually leave that pad in a hotel room.
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The biggest problem I had with phones over the past 20+ years. Is the connector on the phone wearing out or getting corroded over time, this seem to force me to upgrade about 1/3 of all my phones. The other 1/3 was from physical/water damage the last third was just from them being to outdated for how I use the device.
So with wireless charging+waterproofing phones can save me more then 1/2 of my needs to get a new device and expand my usage for the phone for years.
I use wireless charging and I prefer them. S
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The biggest problem I had with phones over the past 20+ years. Is the connector on the phone wearing out or getting corroded over time, this seem to force me to upgrade about 1/3 of all my phones.
That use to be my biggest reason too. It usually happened on phones that I could swap out the battery so it wasn't a show stopper but it did force stop me from updating any firmware that required odin to flash.
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Wireless charging is great in some scenarios.
In car charger, put your phone down and drive. Use an app to automatically turn on Bluetooth or at an auto call reject up too.
In public areas where USB ports would get heavy use, and where you don't want to risk a data connection.
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Add: more expensive, not only because it's nonstandard.
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Not worried about long term effects of bathing yourself in RF? I am, you can suit yourself. Wireless video for example is a pretty hefty flux density.
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You already can't, as headphones for recent iPhone models plug into the charging port. Apple copied Nintendo in this respect, as the Game Boy Advance SP had the same problem.
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You already can't, as headphones for recent iPhone models plug into the charging port.
Correction: you already can't, not me. I'm fine because I avoid Apple.
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Because they're rightfully horrified by the massive piles of E-Waste gathering around the world. [dw.com]
Then perhaps they should pull their head out of their ass and address the REAL problem; Greedy manufacturers making hardware that is designed to prematurely fail in order to bolster revenue.
Start forcing vendors to make hardware that lasts 5 - 10 years instead of the disposable crap they offer today. That would do FAR more to combat the e-waste problem.
Re:So much for innovation (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, it is a problem. My wife has a work iPhone (Lightning) and a personal Android phone (still with Micro-USB as it is a bit older). I have a new Android phone with USB-C. Our car supports Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. But depending on who is driving (and in the case of my wife which phone she is using), we need to unplug the connector cable, and select the correct one to use. It's just an unnecessary PITA. Looking forward to USB-C for all phones and laptops. You can even charge a laptop with the