The New MacBook Pro Keyboard Resists Dust Much Better Than Previous-Gen, Reports iFixit (9to5mac.com) 80
iFixit tore apart the new 2018 MacBook Pro keyboard to see how well the silicone membrane works to protect the butterfly mechanism from dust and debris. After showering a 2017 and 2018 MacBook Pro in dust particles, the repair site found the newer generation holds up surprisingly well. 9to5Mac reports: As shown in the photo, the blue paint particles coat the outside of the keycaps and the edges of the membrane, but the silicon covers stop most of the particles from getting into the key mechanism -- which is what causes the sticky key issues on the previous models. However, the silicon covers have to have holes in them to allow the keycap clips to attach. Naturally, dust can and will get through these holes over time. iFixit placed some sand particles into the "danger zones" of the keycaps, and confirmed the keys will break/become-unreliable when that happens, just like the second-generation butterfly keys. The non-cocooned 2017 keyboard was "almost immediately flooded" in the particles, unsurprisingly. Clearly, the 2018 model is greatly improved in regard to reliability, but it remains to be seen just how much better it is in real-world use. Over time, you only need a couple specks of dust to get in the keycaps and the keys will get stuck. It's just the chances of dust getting in are greatly reduced with the 2018 models.
Re: "silicon covers" (Score:1)
which explains why nobody here knows what it is
Re: (Score:1)
It's the stuff that Realdolls are made of.
Sad, yes. Run by nerds, no. (Score:1, Informative)
It's not a site "run by nerds" any longer. The current editors are latte-toting iHipster millennials who barely know what gets them clicks, but haven't a clue what actually matters. Doesn't help that they limit themselves to reading utter tripe, of course.
But... (Score:2, Interesting)
USB-A ports...NO
Mag-safe connector
Ethernet
SDCard Reader
Thunderbolt 2 port
Proper Arrow key arrangement
Upgradeable RAM
Upgradeable SSD
Ladies and gentleman, the NO's have it
So NO I will not be buying one which is a problem because my 2011MBP has died and Apple has nothing I would pay for in their product line. This is a first for me since the mid 1980's.
Re: (Score:2)
Missing RJ45 is a problem
Re:But... (Score:5, Interesting)
And in the same time I have seen a number of PC laptops come in with damaged power connectors and broken screens
My PC owing friends say its the one thing they wish their PC had.
Re: (Score:2)
HUGE fan of the MagSafe , it has save my laptop from the grandkids and the dogs a number of times.
My phone (Sonim XP7) has a magnetic connector for charging/USB. Instead of relying on a gasketed cover to make the port waterproof, it is just a waterproof port. The only reason I can think of why magnetic connectors never got wide market penetration is because they are slightly bulky.
Re: (Score:2)
That and Apple Patents. They may get big in 10 years, assuming that devices will still need wires then.
Re: (Score:3)
That is why Microsoft licensed MagSafe tech from Apple for their Surface line.
There are also third-party magnetic adapters for USB and Lightning that turn the connectors into magnetic connectors.
However, I believe that magnetic adapters for USB Type C support only slow charging and slow speed over the USB 2.0 subset, making them not suitable for charging laptops.
Re: (Score:3)
I guess other manufacturers are afraid of Apple suing them over their bullshit patents. The system was in use for years before Apple "invented" it, but they seem to have been granted a patent because it was for low voltage DC rather than high voltage AC as used in cooking appliances.
Anyway, you can get USB-C magnetic connectors supporting PD that seem to get reasonable reviews on Amazon.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You might be able to find some of the older MBP's with the normal ports and Mag Safe. They just discontinued them, so there's likely inventory somewhere.
Re: (Score:1)
I'm surprised Apple bothers selling computers anymore at all. They're always stuffed in a corner in the back of the Apple Store, next to everything else that isn't a phone case.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't even bother going in these days, I can buy everything I want online, and cheaper
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
No, the vast majority really aren't. They don't have the surge protection you'd expect from most AC adapters.
It might work OK for an emergency situation, but god help you if you ever hold that thing in the middle of a thunderstorm while it's charging off an adapter with $10 worth of components instead of $50. Your life is *not* worth saving a few bucks for a cheap adapter. Some are good; the vast majority are crap. Tear a few open sometime and look for yourself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Surface has some flaws, but not this many. We enjoy a USB-A port and SD Card reader, but, inexplicably, no USB-C.
Come join us.
Re: (Score:3)
Go look at the new ones.
Headphone socket on the RHS at the rear, where as headphones have the cables on the left.
This forced the cable to drape over the keyboard / trackpad.
Jobs would have fired the idiot who made that decision.
I think anyone that cared on the Mac side of things has left.
Re: (Score:2)
Can you type on it without being made to hate life itself? ... NO
Re: (Score:2)
Ha!
After so many years of using a Model M keyboard, the thing I produced most when typing on a Macbook was red squigglies. Did they really have to make Mac so small that adults have trouble typing on them? Eventually, I found my old USB-to-PS2 adapter and life returned to normal though I wound up with a snarl of adapters and cables strung across my desk. But at least I could type again. (Darned muscle memory.)
Re:But... (Score:4, Informative)
I guess if you can print money you don't need to design more than 4 products a year. Must be a very nice place to work.
Re: (Score:3)
Make SSDs too small to be useful but too expensive to upgrade, suddenly you want to pay for iCloud storage to store all your photos and music.
Re: (Score:3)
This is, ultimately, the argument against monopolies in a nutshell (and this includes monopolies owned by the government). With no competition, there's little reason to care, and we see that in spades with the current state of Macintosh.
Phones are still being innovated because it's a highly competitive market. But it's clear the Mac is simply an afterthought at Apple now. They've allowed the entire line - desktops, laptops, mini - to completely stagnate and become borderline irrelevant. I am heavily inv
Re: (Score:2)
For the past 8 years there hasn't been such a demand for the traditional computer. They were more of a business thing (that sector Apple has a hard time in) not a Personal Computer.
So Apple put their money in the phone market and other mobile stuff while the market was shifting away from Personal Computers.
This year the demand for traditional computers started to go back up so they put more effort behind their PC lineup.
During this time a lot traditional PC makers were more or less just weathering the stor
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Professionals are cheap too.
So if they need a new laptop they don't want to spend extra for it. Mostly because computers devalue so quickly. That 3k system you buy today would sell for 2k (new) the next year and will drop quickly after that.
Also these companies are still in a culture of selling to the individual, that is often the hardest part to get over with.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
iFixIt gave it a 1 out of 10 repairability rating too.
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardow... [ifixit.com]
The keyboard is riveted to the top case. The battery and a few other bits are also glued to the top case. The SSD is soldered in so data recovery and replacement is practically impossible.
The touch ID sensor, which doubles as the power button, seems to paired with a security chip too. So if it fails you may need a new logic board just to fix the god damn power button.
Re: (Score:3)
My 15" 2011 MacBook pro died and was replaced with a 2017 MBP model. I hate the Touch Bar-- screw you to whoever greenlit that idea. And the keyboard is a sorry replacement for the 2011's.
I did find out how to bring my 2011 model back to life! It involves a soldering iron to permanently disable the GPU. Two things don't work anymore-- external monitor support and brightness control. Otherwise, it works great. Here is the link:
https://realmacmods.com/macboo... [realmacmods.com]
Re: (Score:2)
I hate the Touch Bar
I think it's super innovative and awesome. I wish my HP had one.
Where I think they completely failed in critical thinking was making it replace the damn function keys.
Re: (Score:1)
Ahh yes. The apple way. Throw out all your existing devices or buy our overprices dongles. Its the future. Courage!
Re: (Score:2)
If these trade-offs bother you then don't buy a MacBook Pro.
The last MacBook Pro I owned was purchased in 2006. It still works well 12 years later. That said, when it was upgrade time, I wasn't comfortable with the new models not having replaceable batteries. As the biggest problem my MacBook Pro was the battery dying on my also that was the problem with the previous Powerbook I had. So the next laptop was a ThinkPad.
I know I am not the standard person for most of these markets. Apple moved their laptops
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I am not sure if it will outlast it. I rarely use that 2006 laptop. I save it for watching a few shows I have bought on iTunes. It battery had died and it only works on wall power. The software isn't going to get updated much any more...
I am currently using its replacement which I got in 2012 and it is started to feel its age too, I am not able to find replacement batteries (unless via some 3rd party) and it isn't keeping up as well as it use to. For being a small light system at its time, it is rather
Courage (Score:4, Funny)
Not using a decent spring is courage.
But what about *after* it gets in there? (Score:4, Insightful)
Resisting dust may or may not be an improvement. After all, once the dust gets in there, those silicone membranes also almost certainly make it harder to get the dust back *out*.
Crumbs under keys cause problems. Nothing surprising there. There are only two possible design changes that could significantly improve things:
Any other change is likely to be largely meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Doesn't matter. (Score:4, Insightful)
Doesn't matter if it "resists dust much better". Doesn't change the fact a multi-thousand dollar investment can be rendered useless by a dusty room. Apple may have their "keyboard replacement program" for out of warranty machines, but you know what it takes to remove that obligation? A sticker on the box, making sure buyers are aware of the flaky keyboards. Under most countries' consumer protection laws, you're only entitled to a remedy if you can claim the seller didn't make you reasonably aware of an issue. It's like when you buy the shelf model from a shop, if the salesman points out a cosmetic scratch, agreeing to buy it is agreeing you're fine with the scratch. At some point, Apple can successfully claim that agreeing to buy their defective product is agreeing you're fine with it.
Good to hear that it's almost fixed. (Score:2)
Hopefully, the MBP keyboard will soon be as good as it was three generations ago!
Re: (Score:2)
The best keyboard ever was quite likely the 1960 era IBM Selectric typewriter. The fact that Apple doesn't ship with an inexpensive, user replaceable, dirt and grit resistant, keyboard with similar touch and feel should tell us a lot about the skills and priorities of Apple designers.
Re: (Score:2)
In the year 2018 (Score:1)
fixed? yes, for apple. (Score:2)
what you have now is the ultimate insult to their customers.
the keyboard has been improved, but are still not safe from dust.
however, it will take longer before the dust impacts the keyboard functions.
i'm guessing it will take just about long enough to fall outside the warranty.
Doesn't matter (Score:2)
It's still a piece of shit, throw-away, overpriced, fashion-statement status-symbol device masquerading as a computing tool.
The "fixed" keyboard design isn't being used for repairs for the 2016/2017 models. They just swap in the same faulty part which will fail again.
The battery is still glued in, so you're fucked after just 2-3 years.
The screen still costs $500 which is 5-10 times more than a normal repairable laptop.
The RAM and SSD are still part of the motherboard, so you can't just add more to your "Pro
Re: (Score:2)
While I agree Apple stuff is pain in the ass when it breaks, the problem is, it is amazing when it works. Understandably you may not be seeing much of the latter perspective :). Name me another notebook that
- has 4 or 2 TB SSD (Microsoft surface is still 1 TB maximum)
and
- does not blow the fuse in an airline seat on a long-distance flight. That fuse triggers at around 80 W (just at the edge with the previous MagSafe 85 W adapter), while most "pro" machines with reconfigurable everything at this level have 2
Re: (Score:2)