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Portables (Apple) Desktops (Apple) Apple Hardware Technology

Apple Won't Replace Faulty MacBook Pro Keyboards With Third-Gen Components (macrumors.com) 76

Posted by BeauHD from the new-and-improved dept.
After determining that a "small percentage" of 2015-2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboards may experience sticky keys, Apple initiated a Keyboard Service Program. The company has been servicing affected keyboards for free, but the fix doesn't guarantee the problem won't emerge again. The new 2018 MacBook Pros feature third-generation keyboards that are intended to prevent the keys from getting stuck. "For this reason, some customers have been hoping that Apple will start swapping out second-generation keyboards with third-generation keyboards, as part of its service program, but MacRumors has learned that isn't the plan." From the report: When asked if Apple Stores and Apple Authorized Service Providers will be permitted to replace second-generation keyboards on 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro models with the new third-generation keyboards, if necessary, Apple said, no, the third-generation keyboards are exclusive to the 2018 MacBook Pro. Hopefully, in that case, it means that Apple has quietly tweaked the second-generation keyboard to be more reliable. It wouldn't really make sense for Apple to replace keyboards with ones that are just as prone to break again, especially if the third-generation keyboards offer a fix.

One possibility is that the third-generation keyboards aren't backwards compatible with 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro models to begin with. The keyboard is actually one part of a larger component called the "top case," which also has a glued-in battery, and the internal design could be tweaked in 2018 models.
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Apple Won't Replace Faulty MacBook Pro Keyboards With Third-Gen Components More

Apple Won't Replace Faulty MacBook Pro Keyboards With Third-Gen Components

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  • Score one... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:04PM (#56959964)
    Score one for crappy, non-modular design -- engineering by artistes, not engineers. I'll stick with my 12" Thinkpad, where swapping a keyboard is one connector and a few screws. Swollen battery? Press two latches, pull out the old battery. Click! Clack! New battery! So easy. More RAM? You get the idea. It can even run MacOS/OS X... The only downside is that it's a few mm thicker, but at least it won't bend like cardboard at the slightest provocation.

    • Re:Score one... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Rockoon ( 1252108 ) on Monday July 16, 2018 @06:07PM (#56959974)
      I dont understand the desire for the "apple experience." Seems like a whole lot of downside for very little upside.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 )
        You can pretend to be rich and show off your wealth. It's apparently a form of social/wealth signaling when dating, for people who want vacuous brand loyalists.
        • It is the same thing as people who buy a Tesla, but you can also virtue signal that you "care about the environment" while you drive around in your $80,000 car. Meanwhile, they have a gas guzzling SUV at home to haul the kids around when they decide not to take the Tesla out.

          • The early Teslas were a good sporty car that I could see people getting just for the car itself instead of being all electric. Less boring than the always-in-the-shop Jaguars and not as expensive as the higher end supercars. The price of course was one of the selling points, an alternative to a Lexus for the senior director.

      • It's like my in-laws bought a $56000 Lexus and don't know how to use 80% of the features. Or my wife wants a BMW X5.

        People want expensive shit with lots of stuff to feel good

      • It's a nice laptop. When I first used one in 2009, I liked it. It was lighter than all other laptops I've used, and the trackpad was easy to use until anything I've seen on PC laptops, and battery life was very good. I distinctly remember at the time being impressed about how much better it was than what I'd used in the past. Granted, I did not pay for it out of my own pocket.

        Today though the gap is smaller, both PCs and Macs have very light models that are both power efficient and with good CPU perform

        • I was specifically buying the 2015s for our workplace for exactly that reason. Now that they've discontinued them, I'm either going to have to look aftermarket, or people are going to have to have a VERY good reason to 'need' a macbook.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I dont understand the desire for the "apple experience." Seems like a whole lot of downside for very little upside.

        I joined the Apple experience after they switched to Intel. OSX is a great OS, based on unix, you can compile and build software just like you would on other BSD or linux, there's precompiled GNU stuff you can load up, you can run their attractive OS shell, you can go to shell and be a cli monkey. Then you also have access to a lot of nice professional art/video/music applications that you woul

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

        Excellent screen (especially important for artists), the best trackpad available, fast SSD, very good battery life for the form factor, and it looks cool.

        I never bought a single Apple product, and I don't intend to do so in the future because I have other priorities, but we have to recognize their qualities.

      • There are actually a number of reasons, but it basically bois down to because OS X is as closest we've ever gotten to "Linux on the Desktop". I get to enjoy my bash prompt and OSS software (eg: homebrew) and still get to use Microsoft Office and Adobe if I need them.

        Their hardware also used to be really good (circa 2010 give or take). But that's gone to shit now, so the only thing going for them is OSX. Despite the strides that the hackintosh community have made, using a hackintosh still feels too much l

      • I actually like OS X and iOS to a degree, but I agree, there's no real reason to buy MacBook hardware other than to blend in with the other hipster emulators with the Github stickers on their MacBooks.

        BMW and Mercedes do this too. Especially with Mercedes, the idea used to be that you spend a ton of money and get a reliable tank. Now, both are designed to last just beyond the 3-year lease period. Both have insanely expensive, single-source electronic components that can make a simple repair cost thousands.

    • Which Thinkpad Model are you running as a Hackintosh?

      • Re: Score one... (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Which ever one you want?

        https://techsviewer.com/install-macos-10-14-mojave-on-virtualbox-on-windows/

  • Apple produces the finest lemons.

    • "I’ve been thinking. When Apple gives you lemons? Don’t buy them. Make Apple take the lemons back! Get mad! We don’t want your damn lemons! What are we supposed to do with these? Demand to see Apple’s manager! Make him rue the day he thought he could sell us lemons! Do you know who we are? We’re the men who are going to crash your company shares down! With your own lemons!"

  • Iâ(TM)m just glad that Apple has blessed us with the option of buying a new machine with an improved keyboard. The issues with the old one were blown out of proportion and number of users affected was pretty small. Iâ(TM)ll just be glad when the new units start shipping.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 )
      Yawn! Just another portless wonderbook with the reliability of a sheet of wet cardboard. Call me when Apple makes a real computer, not a prop for hipsters who want to look good.

      • Just another portless wonderbook with the reliability of a sheet of wet cardboard.

        Standard issue for my company's employees is Lenovo SchtinkPads. I was up for a replacement, but there was no budget for new ones.

        However, there WAS a special budget for SchmackBookSchmoes. So I'm using one of those now.

        With a SchtinkPad, you can use it to hammer in railroad spikes all day, and the thing will still run perfectly. My SchmackBookSchoe fell off my sofa . . . and the display was broken.

        So I bought a fancy, expensive protective shell for it. Not that it will help any, if I drop it again .

        • I'm also stuck with a 2017 MacBook Pro; an i5 with only 8GB of RAM. After seeing the ridiculous prices and lackluster specs of the latest Pro's I searched for comparable Thinkpads. The P52s looked pretty good.

          I'm a server guy and don't need too many CPU cycles or a fancy GPU, but I do need memory to run VM's. Our front-end guys are having problems with their machines not having enough memory (they can't easily test with IE or Edge) and programs like SourceTree are pegging the CPU. I have to spin up Wind

    • Well, between you and I, 50% of people have experienced the issue. Unless you don't have a Mac then it's 100%. Seriously, a lot of people have experienced this issue. Most people have dust in their house. If you have pets, it's impossible to keep the dust off.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I can't see the new membrane actually fixing the dust and particulate ingress issue. It would have a chance if it actually fully enclosed the keys, but it doesn't. Check out the iFixit blog page (and video) where they show it and you'll see there are 1/4 inch holes in the membrane over each corner of each switch mechanism.

  • Continues to screw Apple fan-boys.............even from beyond the grave!!!!

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      He died and a lot of the people he was protecting within the company were vulnerable after his death, some like Scott Forstall, were clearly forced out by his younger and less experienced subordinates, in fact, I suspect he was set up to be holding the bag when the fails around the Apple Maps launch occurred.

      There's a lot of politics between the ignorant, spoilt and very young inner city valley kids who're now moving into engineering roles and the old guard responsible for the good years up to 2012 or so. T

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Megane ( 129182 )
      There is a notable decline in repairability starting in 2012 when the retina models came out, just after he died. The obsession with thin has made things even worse since then. I think he would not have allowed it to get this bad.

  • AAST (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 16, 2018 @07:30PM (#56960304)

    Apple Authorized Service Technician here.

    1.) Yes, I can confirm, the keyboard is integrated with the top case, trackpad, battery, power button, and touch bar on 2017/2017 model MBPs.
    2.) Would the top case from the 2018 work with a 2017 logic board? No. Why? Changed connectors and changed firmware on the battery and touch bar. You can't plug it in, and if you could, your logic board would query the hardware [What are you?], it would respond with [unexpected value], and your logic board and OSX would both go [wtf is this Mickey Mouse horse shit?].
    3.) Give it up. You're not getting a replacement that won't break. The entire intent behind not putting the rubberized seal around the keys was specifically so it would break just outside of warranty and you'd have to get a new one. When you start looking at prices of the parts + repair, most people will think, "You know, it's almost worth it just to get a new one rather than repair this one..." Which is the intent. Apple is trying to get out of the replacement parts business and break into the 'disposable computer' business, except they still want that whole "Apple = expensive, expensive = good + status symbol, thus apple = good + status symbol" meme to keep going.

    • You're on Slashdot among friends. It's okay. You can say the word "motherboard". :-)

  • What's the least expensive laptop that can easily run macOS?

  • They just replaced the logic boards with the exact same logic board that would experience the problem again.

  • I could have sworn there was a story just a few days ago that said that the new keyboards are quieter but do not fix the flaws that make them failure-prone.

    https://www.techradar.com/news... [techradar.com]

    So why are people suddenly saying that the new keyboards fix the problem?

    • So why are people suddenly saying that the new keyboards fix the problem?

      The new keyboard has a dust shield under each key which is supposed to keep the dust out of the crappy little mechanism, and the crappy little mechanism is also infinitesimally superior to the old one. It's still crap, though, with too little travel and too little feel, and it's still going to be prone to dust problems. They will just crop up a little later.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      https://ifixit.org/blog/10279/... [ifixit.org]

      tl;dr Apple implemented one of their own patents called "Ingress Protection for Keyboards".

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