Apple Says New MacBook Pro Keyboard Won't Fix Sticky Key Issue (cnet.com) 108
After multiple lawsuits have been filed over the butterfly-switch keyboards found on the MacBook Pro and MacBook lineups, you would think Apple would fix this issue by including a keyboard in the new MacBook Pros that can't be damaged by a little dust. Unfortunately, while the new 2018 MacBook Pro does have an updated third-generation keyboard, Apple tells CNET it doesn't include any new engineering or tweaks to address the sticky key issue. CNET reports: Instead, the third-generation keyboard's tweaks are about making it quieter. In a brief typing test, CNET's long-time MacBook reviewer Dan Ackerman says it isn't "whisper-quiet" but does "lack the sharp click of the previous design." Technically, Apple has admitted only that "a smaller percentage of the keyboards in certain MacBook and MacBook Pro models" have demonstrated the sticky key issue. If you buy one, you may likely never have that problem. But it's worth noting that when the company launched its free keyboard repair program in June, it made literally every single model of MacBook Pro with the "butterfly switch" keyboard eligible.
Ha (Score:3)
Well a sticky key doesn't make much sound at all, so I guess the noise problem is solved one way or another!
Re:Ha (Score:5, Interesting)
People aren't giving Apple enough credit here.
Apple figures, if they tough it out long enough, there won't be any people with Apple laptops that have any keyboard other than the current gosh-awful one which feels like you're drumming your fingers on a sheet of metal. So when they move to a totally fixed, haptic-based "keyboard"... people won't know just what a crappy experience it is!
They'll be hailed as courageous innovators!
Incidentally, Tim Cook insists on reading The Emperor's New Clothes to his nieces and nephews at least once a month. But, in his version, the Emperor is a visionary hero - and the young child who cries out "but he's not wearing anything at all!" gets eaten by wolves.
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I might actually like a haptic-based keyboard. I've been amazed at how good the haptics on my 2015 MacBook Pro are when it comes to the trackpad. The big hurdle to solve is how to find the keys by touch. If they do that, a no-moving-parts haptic keyboard might be kind of nice. (*MIGHT* be. All I'm saying is that I'd reserve judgement until after I actually tried it.)
For my money, the real flaw with the current keyboard is the lack of a dedicated ESC key. That's unforgivable. It's like a car without a ste
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The lack of the ESC key means I will not buy an Apple notebook computer. I use vim as my primary (99.9%) text editor so no ESC on the keyboard is a non-starter. Plus the flat keys on all modern notebook computers makes typing less precise compared to my IBM 755CE and especially compared to the sculpted keys of a traditional keyboard.
Re: Ha (Score:1)
Its a sad day when a modern bb phone has a better keyboard than a modern apple MacBook
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I'd be kind of interested to see how a keyboard that looks like a membrane keyboard a la an Atari 400, but with modern haptic feedback and low-pressure-sensitivity, would work. I'm not a big fan of the current Macbook keyboards (but admittedly haven't really used them beyond futzing with my coworkers' computers) but I've never really been one to reject something new out of hand.
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It takes courage... (Score:3)
Exactly. It takes courage to do this. Definitely a step up from removing a measly headphone jack from a phone. Crippling a laptop with an inferior keyboard is definitely the way to go and we are fortunate the Apple geniuses are pushing this forward for the benefit of their customers.
The 2015 model keyboards were the best. (Score:3)
Just go back to those.
You could actually tell when you pressed it too, since it moved 2 mm instead of 0.25 mm.
I don't understand why Apple is making their laptop keyboards have a different sensation from their desktop keyboards. It's incongruous and annoying.
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Do better than that: revert to the half-stroke keyboard introduced with the Apple IIgs. If I recall correctly, that was Apple's first step toward reducing the keystroke depth to nothing. It was initially a bit of a jarring change from the full-stroke keyboards everyone was accustomed to, but compared to the latest "next-closest thing to typing on a flat surface", it was brilliant.
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WTF happened is that Tim Cook is an iPad user, NOT a Mac user.
WTF happened is that Tim Cook lets Jony Ive rule the design of things, even letting him priorize form over function.
WTF happened is that Steve Jobs used to be the buffer between Apple engineers, Apple designers and the Mac users.
So now we have a CEO that doesn't give a fuck about Macs and a person who designs Macs to be super-expensive technological art instead of useful computers.
WHO THE FUCK ASKED FOR STILL THINNER LAPTOPS? NOBODY.
Go back to th
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Are you suggesting we waste 1.75mm on functionality? What a preposterous statement. This is 2018, not 2008!
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Just go back to those.
You could actually tell when you pressed it too, since it moved 2 mm instead of 0.25 mm.
I don't understand why Apple is making their laptop keyboards have a different sensation from their desktop keyboards. It's incongruous and annoying.
I was in an Apple Store yesterday and a desktop keyboard I tried briefly felt a lot like that on the new MBP.
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Just go back to those.
You could actually tell when you pressed it too, since it moved 2 mm instead of 0.25 mm.
I don't understand why Apple is making their laptop keyboards have a different sensation from their desktop keyboards. It's incongruous and annoying.
They will fix that soon enough by fixing their desktop keyboards. Super thin desktop keyboards will be courageous.
a Real Man's(tm) keyboard (Score:2)
Quiet keyboards are for hipsters. A real {,wo}man uses Model M or a good counterfeit. Those somehow forced to use a laptop or phone can apt install bucklespring [github.com] to get at least the audible part of goodness.
If neighbours don't complain, your keyboard is no good.
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Yep, near by people said I typed too loud and fast like a machine gun. At work, I told them I can't be productive if I don't use clicky keyboards. :P
no problem here! (Score:1)
yu0 are typing it wrong!
Pick your own keyboard (Score:2)
We're still relying on corporations to decide our input device?
*Design a keyboard-less device. Let's call it, for the sake of the example, iPad Pro.
*Create a docking connection. Supply an input device that snaps onto the dock. Let's call it, for the sake of the example, Smart Keyboard.
* Open the dock interface up to third parties, e.g. Belkin, who can design custom keyboard covers.
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This is still true for the most part, except that you won't save that much (if any) money on the Lenovo products that are high-quality rather than crap. Even their ThinkPad line has lemons, so you need to do a little legwork before pulling the trigger.
(I've been a Mac fan for a long time, but recently needed to replace a very old one and had to bow out for this generation. I'm just not impressed with the current offerings, and I went with an HP Envy instead. It's not quite up to MacBook Pro build quality, b
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The only major downside to that is that the Lenovo will come infected with Windows 10.
I don't disagree with your premise, it's just that I walked away from Windows when Ballmer forced Vista on us, with the threat that there was no going back; "it's our way or the highway". Since then, Microsoft took Ballmer's "bend over and take it" attitude with the introd
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Lenovo support Linux on heaps of their products.
The laptop i'm using right now - a W540 - supports RHEL and Ubuntu
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i don't and probably won't (maybe a second hand older model? for shits and giggles?)
but my boss does because we develop for osx/ios too
Keys' quietness will now match their brokenness (Score:2)
Any keyboard that has individual holes through... (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'd prefer a laptop to be 1mm thicker but have a decent keyboard and socket for storage/ram. Would also be nice if the keyboard was not riveted to the whole top part of the laptop.
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No manufacturing precision is the problem not the design itself. Make the keys consistent size and the hole for the key sized accordingly.
But in the real world the problem of crap and crud accumulating can be a problem so the key holes have to have some distance from the key itself _or_ be absolutely perfect (tolerating crap vs rejecting it completely). Keys can't wobble much in any case however that's not a problem in any higher quality keyboard.
If each key has its own cutout hole (Score:2)
The only reason we live with crud getting underneath laptop keys is because most of them have a big cut-out for the entire keyboard. So the nearest neighboring structure to a key are its neighboring keys, so there's no way to seal them since the seal would bridge multiple keys together, inhibiting them from moving independently. But if you've got an individual cutout for e
Apple needs to wake the fuck up. (Score:5, Interesting)
I contested the latter point, but it turns out it doesn't matter, because it's still not (by Apple's own admission) fixed in the 3rd gen.
Eventually, I hope this individual realizes that, every time we have disagreed about what Apple was doing, or was going to do, it has only been a matter of weeks before an Apple press release, legal filing, or a quote by a reputable publication (often one that is pro-Apple, at that) confirms what I had been trying to point out. Maybe then he (and others like him) will finally be able to get on board with pressuring Apple to change direction, rather than remaining blind to the fact that Apple seems to be hell-bent on seeing how long they can coast on their pile of money when they design themselves out of the market.
I want to start liking Apple's computers again, but I can't do that while they're so comfortable with knowingly selling defective products that they openly admit that their new, not even released yet, laptops are just as defective as the last two generations. Who's with me?
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Eventually, I hope this individual realizes that, every time we have disagreed about what Apple was doing, or was going to do, it has only been a matter of weeks before an Apple press release, legal filing, or a quote by a reputable publication (often one that is pro-Apple, at that) confirms what I had been trying to point out.
If they cared about the truth, they would have been repelled by the RDF anyway. (It's no longer attached directly to Jobs, due to the loss of his corporeal vessel; the aura has settled firmly around the Apple logo.)
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I contested the latter point, but it turns out it doesn't matter, because it's still not (by Apple's own admission) fixed in the 3rd gen.
That is a misinterpretation. Apple said the design didn't change to resolve any keyboard reliability issues, because they haven't said the previous generation had any design issues affecting reliability (and won't unless compelled by law).
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Will still keep my 2013 (Score:2)
My 2013 13" has most of the same features.. same RAM. I could use a disk upgrade and a few more cores.. but this new version still only has 16 gb of RAM. Still more of an Air than a Pro.
I'm not keen on the ginormous trackpad, the bad keyboard, and the lack of peripherals. I guess I'll wait another year or so.
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His post begins with
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Of course it doesn't (Score:1)
I have plenty of issues with Apple that have absolutely zero to do with this keyboard drama. However, with everything that is involved in designing some new product, testing it, then getting it into the manufacturing pipeline, there's basically no way Apple could have addressed this issue, assuming it is one of those things that manages to escape testing. Very plausible in this scenario, since you likely have a machine just pressing the keys and engineers looking for signs of wear, as opposed to "real world
You are (Score:2, Redundant)
Lead Time (Score:1)
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Well that is the problem, Apple has not been able to engineer its way out of a wet paper bag for some time now. It is a common problem that has existed a lot longer than just the keyboard issues. We have fuses on the back-light circuitry that do not protect the circuitry they are there to protect. We have you are holding it wrong cause they can't engineer a few traces for an antenna correctly. We have will fry itself cause we want silent in as small a case as we can and so no proper thermal management.... A
Re: Lead Time (Score:2, Insightful)
âoeApple hasnâ(TM)t been able to engineer out of a wet paper bag for a while now....â
Hmmm. Could adopting forced diversity vs meritocracy have anything to do with this phenomenon?
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repair program (Score:3)
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Monkeys still banging on keyboards. (Score:1)
With all our advancements in tech it's rather ironic that typing skills are still a considerable productivity booster in the 21st century workplace. And based on all the marketing we've been hearing from Dragon over the last 20+ years, keyboards should have died long ago, and an infant should be able to control a computer with crying and wet farts by now.
(Visiting alien life) - "The travel brochure said 'advanced species' for this planet. Advanced my ass. They still use keyboards."
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I assume this is missing the "humour" tag, as the thought of people speaking code to a machine would be a giggle...
Fuck Apple (Score:2)
Admit? (Score:2)
Apple didn't "admit" that only a small percentage were affected, they tried to gas light us that only a small percentage are affected.
Damned you ... (Score:2)
Apple rant (Score:1)