Bad iPhone Notches Are Happening To Good Android Phones (theverge.com) 260
The Verge's Vlad Savov argues that Android smartphone manufacturers are copying the iPhone's design (specifically, the iPhone X's notch) with more speed and cynicism than ever before: I've been coming to Mobile World Congress for close to a decade now, and I've never seen the iPhone copied quite so blatantly and cynically as I witnessed during this year's show. MWC 2018 will go down in history as the launch platform for a mass of iPhone X notch copycats, each of them more hastily and sloppily assembled than the next. No effort is being made to emulate the complex Face ID system that resides inside Apple's notch; companies like Noa and Ulefone are in such a hurry to get their iPhone lookalike on the market that they haven't even customized their software to account for the new shape of the screen. More than one of these notched handsets at MWC had the clock occluded by the curved corner of the display. Asus is one of the biggest consumer electronics companies in the world, and yet its copycat notch is probably the most galling of them all. The Zenfone 5 looks and feels like a promising phone, featuring loud speakers, the latest Sony imaging sensor with larger-than-average pixels, and a price somewhere south of $499. I should be celebrating it right now, but instead I'm turning away in disgust as Asus leans into its copying by calling Apple a "Fruit Company" repeatedly. If you're going to copy the iPhone, at least have the decency to avoid trying to mock it.
It would be stating the obvious to say that this trend is not a good one. I'm absolutely of the belief that everyone, Apple included, copies or borrows ideas from everyone else in the mobile industry. This is a great way to see technical improvements disseminated across the market. But the problem with these notched screens on Android phones is that they're purely cosmetic. Apple's notch at the top of the iPhone X allows the company to have a nearly borderless screen everywhere else, plus it accommodates the earpiece and TrueDepth camera for Face ID. Asus et al have a sizeable "chin" at the bottom of their phones, so the cutouts at the top are self-evidently motivated by the desire to just look -- not function, look -- like an iPhone X.
It would be stating the obvious to say that this trend is not a good one. I'm absolutely of the belief that everyone, Apple included, copies or borrows ideas from everyone else in the mobile industry. This is a great way to see technical improvements disseminated across the market. But the problem with these notched screens on Android phones is that they're purely cosmetic. Apple's notch at the top of the iPhone X allows the company to have a nearly borderless screen everywhere else, plus it accommodates the earpiece and TrueDepth camera for Face ID. Asus et al have a sizeable "chin" at the bottom of their phones, so the cutouts at the top are self-evidently motivated by the desire to just look -- not function, look -- like an iPhone X.
Oh, please (Score:3)
The Essential Phone had that useless notch thing even before the iPhone X came out.
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And it was mocked just as much as the iPhone X is. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be disappointed that companies are copying useless shit from each other.
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As end users it does give us a point of attack though to get better phones. Just pile on Apple to get them to design better phones and once done, the rest will copy them. So mass meme attacks on Apple with better phone design ideas to give us a better phone pool to choose from, heh, heh.
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The thing I like about Android is that there is no one single Android phone. It's a platform in a marketplace where a dozen companies try to sell their ideas.
...And ALL of which are falling all over themselves to copy Apple, LOL!!!
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The bezel-less trend is real.
Yes and it was started by people who knew how to make them practical before curving the display edge and taking a chunk out of it.
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Don’t think of it as a notch in your screen, but 2 extensions to your screen. With out the notch there will just be blank space not utilized for anything. I would think a geek site would like more uses in available space.
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obviously it is used for something, because tfa mentions that it 'occluded the clock'.
What is a "notch" (Score:2)
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https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-con... [tnwcdn.com]
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https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-con... [tnwcdn.com]
Thanks.
OK, much ado over nothing. I'm looking at the Nokia 8 (Android One) for my next phone when the ol' Nexus 5x gives up the ghost so I'm not affected.
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In a world where Apple thinks it can sue over rounded corners and "slide to unlock", then yes. They absolutely copied the design. In the real world, it's also a yes.
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In a world where Apple thinks it can sue over rounded corners and "slide to unlock", then yes. They absolutely copied the design. In the real world, it's also a yes.
If you think that Apple copied the Prada in 3 months, then what do you think Samsung did?
https://gizmodo.com/261172/set... [gizmodo.com]
vs.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/1... [cnn.com]
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What has Android copied from iOS?
R U Sirius?!?
http://appleinsider.com/articl... [appleinsider.com]
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/1... [cnn.com]
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that is not what this is about. It's about the Android camp constantly bashing Apple for everything and THEN copy it. Even when they don't need it because they don't even have the sensors or whatever. So I'm going to say it like it is: Android manufacturers knows that iPhone is the more sought after phone. They know it makes so much more money than their thing. So they want it to look as an iPhone as a selling argument. "Look buy our great Android phone. It even looks like an iPhone".
Precisely.
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Seen all of this before (Score:2)
> so the cutouts at the top are self-evidently motivated by the desire to just look -- not function, look -- like an iPhone
The cargo cults of the modern world.
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Reminds me of the story (not sure if it's actually true) about the Soviets copying a B-29 to produce their TU-4 bomber. They duplicated it right town to a riveted patch over some old battle damage.
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If it's *features* you're after, there is little reason for an iPhone.
There is if you have a Macbook. I have an iPhone (a four year old iPhone-6 refurb), and a Macbook-Pro. The phone integrates seamlessly with the apps on my laptop, for calendars, alarms, text messages, photos, iCloud documents, etc.
Another advantage of iPhones over Android is regular software updates that "just work".
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There is if you have a Macbook. I have an iPhone (a four year old iPhone-6 refurb), and a Macbook-Pro. The phone integrates seamlessly with the apps on my laptop, for calendars, alarms, text messages, photos, iCloud documents, etc.
Android does this wonderfully as well, FWIW.
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You must have a different definition of the word wonderfully than we do.
I have a Mac as well as both an iPhone and an android phone. ShanghaiBill is correct in that iPhones integrate wonderfully with a Mac. Android does integrate with the Mac but nowhere near as well or as easily, iMessage being an example where android is unable to integrate.
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I think it's quite the other way around.
See, I can pair an Android with another Android, Linux or Windows machine (through Bluetooth, NFC, Wireless etc) and copy files from one to the other. Bring an iPhone and it's the only one that doesn't sync, unless you have that dreaded iTune or 3rd party alternative installed.
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yeah, because copying files to/from your telephone is the only important thing people want to do when linking it to your Mac & solutions to do so effortlessly like iExplorer don't actually exist... /s
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I never said that you couldn't jump through hoops to make things work, just that using android & a Mac is far from as wonderfully easy as using an iPhone. Given that you say "takes time to learn" with your android setup, you agree.
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You get what you pay (exorbitantly) for. Until you need something different, when you'll pay for the lock-in.
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I find the money spent in purchasing well integrated solutions to be worth every penny but then my time is clearly worth more to me that yours is to you.
As for being constrained by iOS, other than not having an application that lets one easily determine which cellular network one is on and having to use the Apple Music app, Apple's walls have never limited anyone I know in any reasonable way.
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You mean all of my computers quit working in 2005 and I never knew it until some AC shill trolling Slashdot told me just now? Thanks!
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As someone who recently (two weeks ago) dumped PC & Android for all-mac (iPad, iPhone X, MacBook Pro), I can say definitively that the android ecosystem has nothing whatsoever on the apple ecosystem where "seamless integration" is concerned. Apple products are far from perfect, but the way the devices integrate with one another is phenomenal.
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It's called a "walled garden".
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> It's called a "walled garden".
Which is exactly why I *go* with Apple.
I want my phone to be a phone, and my computer to be my computer. I've no more interest in paying the flexibility tax on my phone than I do on my toaster. I am willing to pay that tax for my computer.
Obviously personal needs vary completely. Trying to recommend one phone/OS/toaster over another without fully understanding the needs of the user is proselytizing, not advising.
(Not that you were doing so.)
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You can't be seriously choosing Apple because they prevent you from copying a file without iTunes.
You can't be seriously choosing Apple because they only allow you to connect to approved headphones through a gimped Bluetooth stack.
You can't be seriously choosing Apple because it can't sync with your PC seamlessly unless it's a Mac.
Come on, I've heard plenty reasons to choose Apple, some good, some not so good, but yours makes top 5 worst easily.
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My response was to the author's assertion that a walled garden is a bad thing.
It is *a* thing.
Whether it's bad or good depends upon the needs of the user. And frankly, for me, the walled garden is, overall, an advantage. For my use case, disadvantages of Apple's walled garden (which you listed some - there are of course many more) cost me very little, and the advantages of a walled garden (mostly I don't have to care about updates, security, malware (mostly), etc.) are significant to me. My time is preci
Re: Seen all of this before (Score:2)
Which is exactly why I *go* with Apple.
I want my phone to be a phone, and my computer to be my computer.
Then you don't want a smartphone. You want one of those old Nokia phones that does nothing but make calls and send messages. You certainly don't want an iPhone.
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Don't be snide.
If you don't understand that flexibility has a cost, then you have failed to learn one of the most basic principles of user interfaces.
If you *do* understand that flexibility has a cost, but cannot conceive of their beings more than two settings - yours and the far end of the spectrum, then you have failed to understand human beings.
I understand the urge to evangelize - whether it be your God or your phone's OS. But realize when you are doing so.
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But for everything else (google suite in chrome = related app on phone):
FakeID (Score:5, Interesting)
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Honestly, not incorporating FaceID into an Android phone is a selling point for me.
FaceID is an optional feature, that is off by default. If you don't like it, just don't set it up on your phone.
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Some demo phones with fingerprint scanners under the screen have appeared, with release dates later this year. They are a bit slower than normal fingerprint readers. They only work with LCD screens as well, not OLED.
They look kinda cool actually. The screen under the sensor has to flash white to illuminate your finger, and on the demo I saw they made that into a nifty looking fingerprint scanning animation like in some Hollywood movie.
Personally though I'm happy with the fingerprint scanner on the back. It'
Re:FakeID (Score:4, Interesting)
I think OP's point is, nobody _should_ like it (even if they think they do). Because it's completely insecure by default.
It has a false positive rate of 1 in 50,000. That is plenty good enough for most people. I don't store nuclear launch codes on my cell phone, and I am not too worried about the NSA seeing my grocery list.
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I think OP's point is, nobody _should_ like it (even if they think they do). Because it's completely insecure by default.
It has a false positive rate of 1 in 50,000. That is plenty good enough for most people. I don't store nuclear launch codes on my cell phone, and I am not too worried about the NSA seeing my grocery list.
That's the false accept rate (FAR) when presented with another person's face. Several people have demonstrated that if you show it a 3D mask of the owner's face that is approximately the right temperature, the FAR is very high.
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TouchID is 1:50k. FaceID is 1:1m
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1 in 50,000 when there's over 7 billion of us ...
The number of people on earth is completely irrelevant. The phone would be no more or less secure if there was only 1 billion people, or 70 billion.
is about as secure as a keypad that only beeps when you get the right digit.
Nonsense. Many Android phones use a four digit code, which has a 1:10,000 chance of being cracked on each attempt, assuming that codes are selected randomly. They are not, with codes representing dates being far more prevalent. That is far less secure than FaceID, but still "good enough" for most people.
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Many Android phones use a four digit code, which has a 1:10,000 chance of being cracked on each attempt, assuming that codes are selected randomly. They are not, with codes representing dates being far more prevalent. That is far less secure than FaceID, but still "good enough" for most people.
Those raw numbers are pretty meaningless without taking into account brute force mitigation strategies.
In the case of Android passcodes (which includes PIN, pattern or password), there's an exponentially-increasing delay after failed attempts. It's basically impossible to get more than a couple hundred attempts[*], even if you're very dedicated and persistent. So, assuming the PIN is random and you don't have any information about it (e.g. didn't shoulder surf part of it), the probability of getting into
Masks DO NOT WORK with FaceID (Score:2)
What's more concerning about FaceID is the level of effort required to make a mask of the owner that will do the job.
I'm not sure what you mean by "more concerning" because it has been shown in multiple videos that even extremely accurate masks made from professional molds of the face DO NOT WORK with FaceID.
Apple itself stated that they built FaceID not only against faces from all cultures around the world, but also they tested against masks as well to make sure such an obvious attack vector would be denie
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I'm not sure what you mean by "more concerning" because it has been shown in multiple videos that even extremely accurate masks made from professional molds of the face DO NOT WORK with FaceID.
A colleague of mine did it. Got a high-quality mask of his own face made, and another colleague was able to unlock the test device while wearing it.
Several other groups have done it as well, and published about it.
It's more secure than fingerprints (Score:2)
I think OP's point is, nobody _should_ like it (even if they think they do). Because it's completely insecure by default.
it's an order of magnitude (yes, really) more secure than fingerprints. It's just that not so many people have tried to let multiple people work the fingerprint sensor....
Do you similarly think TouchID is bad and should be removed from all phones? 99% of people on Earth disagree.
FaceID is not only more secure than TouchID, it's also way, way more useful because it happens without consci
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I'm going to guess Apple pays $0 to SuperKendall, more likely actually checked the facts.
When you say Face ID was easily broken, do you mean easily broken with a $200 3D printed mask as long as the user turns off liveness detection?
Also not using just a photo but also a depth recording of your face
https://www.wired.com/story/ha... [wired.com]
http://bgr.com/2017/11/12/face... [bgr.com]
I'm pretty damn sure Touch ID is way easier to crack than that.
Doesn't matter (Score:2)
After peak smartphone, it's all downhill from here.
There's too much copying, everywhere. (Score:3)
I'm a slashdotter, so I'm somewhat of a luddite stuck in old times, for many many technical things. (Or perhaps I just don't like /unnecessary/ change, in design, especially when the end result is worse)
I have a Samsung Note 5, the size, weight, fantastic, it has a FLAT screen, no stupid goddamn 'can't put on a protector' curve. It has a home button, a REAL button. The fingerprint scanner is on the front, on the home button in a convenient location.
Admittedly, it still works pretty well, but one day, I'd like to replace it. *ALL* I would like is an identical phone that's faster, better camera, more storage and more network features, maybe USB C, more battery life if possible.
I do not want a curved display. /physical/ home, back and multitask button
I do not want fingerprint scanner on the back.
I do not want a smaller phone.
I do not want one particularly larger.
I DO want a
At the current pace of 'innovation' (read: wank factor) by the time my phone needs replacing, I will not be able to purchase a phone that matches my needs. OR the phone I want will be the 'budget edition' phone from the company, with a weak CPU / features that barely exceeds the Note 5 I had.
I'll say one thing, these guys sure are curing my phone upgrade itch. The Note 8, iPhone X can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. The One Plus 5T can join them (although good on them for the price and flat display)
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You forgot to mention you want a 3.5mm headphone jack, which wont be a available by the time you upgrade.
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Christ yes! This too, very much so. Stupid @#%ers, seriously? One of the most ubiquitous plugs on the planet?
Disgusting.
To Bad, so Sad; Windscreens (Score:2)
Once something becomes fashionable, everyone does it. If I was a pointy haired manager, I'd do it too.
My pet peeve is the trend some years ago for very horizontal windscreens. Makes the car very hot on even mild days, and amplifies the effect of any dirt. Also reduces fuel efficiency because people need air con most days, and does nothing for aerodynamics (look at an aeroplane -- pointy at back, not front).
But once it became fashionable, every car manufacture does it. The more horizontal the cooler the
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Sadly they also replaced the aluminium back with a glass one, which makes for a seriously slippery phone. If I leave it on the arm rest of my lounge chair, it will slowly (over the course of 15 minutes or so) s
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8+? Yeah I just got one too. I always put a case on anyway and found aluminium slippery too, and am glad for wireless charging as it means I don't get a bunch of marks around the connector where I've tried to put it on a charging stand in the dark / when drunk / etc when going to bed.
I love that because Apple keep the updates coming, I won't have to worry about FaceID or notch BS for a good 3-4 years, by which time hopefully there will be better solutions.
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You're a what so you're a WHAT? (Score:2)
I'm a slashdotter, so I'm somewhat of a luddite stuck in old times
WTF does that even mean. I'm a Slashdotter from the old times (read for a while before I even created an account, much to my everlasting shame) and I am firmly in the progress camp. In fact I would way MOST of Slashdot used to be in favor of technological progress until the last decade or so, when we started to see a spike in luddthargy creeping through the user base. But I still don't think it's prevalent.
Everything that you want is there
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The X - I have it, I like it but it feels a bit beta. FaceID is not better than TouchID in every way, it's better in one way only - no physical button. Other than that it's slower and more error prone. It can be more transparent in general use because you're already looking at your phone, but in other cases
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(read for a while before I even created an account, much to my everlasting shame)
This is funny!
I agree with you on the gestures, I didn't think I would like them and quickly got used to it. The lack of a TouchID was concerning since I still really like being able to have the phone accessible by the time I look at it. So for example let's say you're in a meeting, yes yes you should be paying attention, Face ID isn't as optimal since you need a specific angle for it to get your face whereas the Touch ID just needs a finger. Besides that, easily the best phone I've owned.
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Glass screen protectors are very common for curved screens, I have a Zagg on mine and quick look shows S7 and S8 have them available.
The case is slightly deeper, but not noticeably deeper. Again for me, I don't even notice the curve and case being awkward.
The fingerprint scanner on the back is perfect. I pic
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Curved displays distort the image, they are easily accidentally pressed with palm of hands. Curved displays are basically proven to break, SIGNIFICANTLY easier on dropping.
GLASS screen protectors (to my knowledge) do not exist for them.
If you wanted to protect it, properly, the case would need to be significantly 'deeper' the whole thing is unnecessary when I'm content / more than content with a flat phone.
No home button is ....... just no.
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But the fingerprint sensor is on the back -- I wouldn't call that properly set up. Maybe I'm an anomaly, but the majority of the time I unlock my phone, it's sitting flat on a surface.
Apple Sucks! (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop copying Apple!
We need analog output, replaceable batteries, removable storage and easy repairability, not thinner copies of iphones
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I don't buy Samsung phones any more, but I was really happy to see that the Galaxy S9 has a headphone socket, an SD card socket, USB C, is waterproof, has a fingerprint scanner and wireless charging.
If nothing else it debunks all the bullshit reasons for removing those things.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it is, then it's awfully nice to be *able* to fix it.
That's why we have journalists (Score:2)
they haven't even customized their software to account for the new shape of the screen.
It's no big deal. So long as the publicity given freely (or at least having the junkets paid for) and duly pushed out to the media lackeys results in sales of what looks like a competitor, the deficient software can be pushed out later.
Or not. Because once the phone company has got the money from the sale, what is the point of giving stuff away for free?
And of course those phones will only be a success if all the corrupt, wined and dined (at the very least!!!) journos who sing the praises of these half-r
It's not a notch (Score:2)
Why is everyone so negative by default? The other makers aren't copying a "notch" (small part of screen missing), they're copying "ears" (two new additional areas of screen).
You're all just looking at it the wrong way!
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I just switched from Android on a Nexus 6P to iOS on an X, for business interoperability (you can't send a message to more than 10 people if they're not all iMessage users, and 28/30 in my group were, so guess who was the last to hear any news?). Pros: great battery life, works as a device to send and receive messages and phone calls, has WiFi Calling and iMessage (so I can still get calls/texts when in the bowels of the Faraday-cage hospital I work in).
uhmm... (Score:2)
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Someone PLEASE copy the N900 and make a slider (Score:2)
Hey phone makers, instead of copying all the stupid antifeatures crap (nonreplaceable batteries, glass enclosures, no 3.5 mm headphone jack, notches, absurd thinness, etc..) I got an idea for you: Copy the Nokia N900.
Yes! Please copy it and make a decent phone with a sliding physical keyboard where one can actually type and write! I don't care if the resulting phone is some milimeters thicker but GIVE US A PHYSICAL KEYBOARD!
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I know about them. But you are confined to selected models only and this is an aftermarket solution. Nice but not ideal.
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You may be interested in the Gemini... a new android device with a very nice keyboard.
Seems pretty close to what you're after, although it's a clam-shell rather than a slider.
https://www.indiegogo.com/proj... [indiegogo.com]
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how many of them are portrait-sliding phones?
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Weren't these phones preproduction models & mo (Score:2)
Interesting article, but weren't these phones preproduction models and mockups?
From how the author describes the vendors' phones at the conference, these are preproduction models and mockups. That's why the stupid "notch" was not handled well by the software.
Mmm, Asus (Score:2)
They are having enough problems with their current line of motherboards...basically, if your RAM is Hynix-based, you're SOL.
Status symbol (Score:2)
Now having a black spot on your screen counts as a status symbol. Coming up next: pyrite-plated anything.
Brilliant! (Score:2)
Now I hope more aren't using the stupid 16:9 ratio (Score:2)
I hope the Android fanbois at MWC don't move more towards that useless form factor.
Re: How about copying these features (Score:2)
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People are willing to pay a premium for a premium experience, which is why Apple makes the money
What the fuck is premium about a shitty black block where your screen should be?
I wont pay for an Android version either.
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They can make the phone shorter, with less room for battery. That way, they'll have an easier time throttling your phone in 3 years to sell you a new one.
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They're Chinese companies. They don't do creative designs, they just copy whatever trends they see.
(Not saying the people are incapable, but the socioeconomic context is not an incentive for them. I mean, if Apple comes up with something crazy, they have the ad budget to convince people it's actually a cool thing - even if it's completely retarded like that notch. The Chinese companies usually don't have the same persuasive power, so they just follow.)
Re: Android bankrupt (Score:2)
They're Chinese companies. They don't do creative designs, they just copy whatever trends they see.
That's a pretty absurd generalisation. While there are plenty of Chinese companies which just copy the most popular models, there are also many which innovate and serve less popular markets. If we are speaking about phones specifically, US manufacturers/companies seem to have completely given up on creating ruggedized phones with large battery capacity, in favour of ever slimmer and more fragile models. Whereas several Chinese companies have recently come out with modern phones featuring a sturdy design
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Just the other day someone here ranked the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, released 3.5 years ago, as the best phone ever and that it's been downhill ever since.
And with every article we have a series of apologists who discredit the mourners of lost features with epithets such as granddad and who would ever want X when we have Y?
(Still using my 2012 era LineageOS 14.1 device after cracking the back cover to replace the battery twice)
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Just the other day someone here ranked the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, released 3.5 years ago, as the best phone ever and that it's been downhill ever since.
You did that on purpose didn't you?
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Sorry? September 2014 - 3 and a half years, to the month.
I haven't worked out how to type the 'half' character in ASCII.
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No, Apple copied the Essential PH-1, the original "notch phone".
Now all the Chinese phone manufacturers are copying the copier.
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He couldn't, on account of prior art [gsmarena.com]
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The intersection of Tech And Liberty (Score:2)
It was about tech, liberty, and free software
It still is - that's why Apple has been on Slashdot so much in recent years.
They've always been advancing tech (like being at the forefront of getting rid of the floppy, getting rid of the CD drive, advancing USB-A, now advancing USB-C). Now it's FaceID causing waves. Even if you do not like it can you not admit it is a technical advancement over simple camera facial imagine recognition? And now tens of millions of people are using it, every day...
They've alway
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