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Google's Fuchsia OS On the Pixelbook (arstechnica.com) 72

Posted by BeauHD from the what-to-expect dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from 9to5Google: Our early look at Fuchsia OS last May provided a glimpse into a number of new interface paradigms. Several months later, we now have an updated hands-on with Google's future operating system that can span various form factors. This look at the in-development OS eight months later comes courtesy of Ars Technica who managed to get Fuchsia installed on the Pixelbook. The Made by Google Chromebook is only the third officially supported "target device" for Fuchsia development. As our last dive into the non-Linux kernel OS was through an Android APK, we did not encounter a lockscreen. The Ars hands-on shows a basic one that displays the time at center and Fuchsia logo in the top-left corner to switch between phone and desktop/tablet mode, while a FAB (of sorts) in the opposite corner lets users bring up WiFi controls, Login, and Guest.

Only Guest is fully functioning at this stage -- at least for non-Google employees. Once in this mode, we encounter an interface similar to the one we spotted last year. The big difference is how Google has filled in demo information and tweaked some elements. On phones and tablets, Fuchsia essentially has three zones. Recent apps are above, at center are controls, and below is a mixture of the Google Feed and Search. The controls swap out the always-displayed profile icon for a Fuchsia button. Tapping still surfaces Quick Settings which actually reflect current device battery levels and IP address. Impressively, Ars found a working web browser that can actually surf the internet. Google.com is the default homepage, with users able to visit other sites through that search bar. Other examples of applications, which are just static images, include a (non-working) phone dialer, video player, and Google Docs. The Google Calendar is notable for having subtle differences to any known version, including the tablet or web app.
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Google's Fuchsia OS On the Pixelbook More

Google's Fuchsia OS On the Pixelbook

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  • The problem to solve is why vendors, including Google's own Nexus devices, can't manage to keep hardware support going past about 2.5 years. We're supposed to dump our devices in a landfill every 2 years because they are saddled with unresolved security flaws?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dog77 ( 1005249 )
      Because most tech companies and most developers want to spend their time working on the new and current products. If you have to go back to older products and have to retrofit the Linux kernel for security patches or some major change it can be a lot of effort to make the change and retest it. It helps when you can have all your products on the same code base. This is very difficult with Linux. New hardware is typically only available in the newer kernels. So either you try and maintain a bunch of diff

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Enjoy the ads on the existing ad platform until its time to upgrade. The promotional offers, ads will the better with the next generation of hardware and a free ad supporting OS.

    • Technical solution to a problem (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DrYak ( 748999 ) on Friday January 19, 2018 @05:41AM (#55959055) Homepage

      The problem to solve is why vendors, including Google's own Nexus devices, can't manage to keep hardware support going past about 2.5 years. We're supposed to dump our devices in a landfill every 2 years because they are saddled with unresolved security flaws?

      The problem is that companies make money immediately when they sell a device.
      Not over the lifetime of a device.
      They have strong incentive to put immediately a new device out-of-the-door (sometime even not perfectly finished, with still bugs needing fixing), but not much incentive to write updates 2 years down the line (a that moment, writing an update won't translate in immediate money input, diverts ressources from getting the next money making device out, and might even create a competitor for the new device as the old one remains too much useful).

      This is a bit alleviated if the company has a tighly concentrated line of device where work for updating one translate into "free" updates for another.
      Apple, by having a small set of relatively similar devices is one such example.
      A company such as Jolla making a OS like Sailfish is mostly dealing with user space software suite, and beside a few problems with kernels locked to whatever version the hardware manufacturer supports, can actual transfer their update efforts to the whole range too (Jolla1 smartphone is still benefiting of the updates effort and runs the same version of OS as the latest Sailfish X running on Sony Xperia X devices).

      The hope of Google, by making their own OS and by making it micro kernel, is that most of the hardware-manufacturer dependant shit will be locked inside a few daemons with precisely set APIs and Google should be able to to replace all the other daemons as needed (file systems, etc.).
      As opposed to linux, which is in a constant flux of evolving, and on purpose only exposes an external API to the userland, but might break its own internal interfaces. (So it's hard to port a 4.4 kernel on a piece of hardware whose manufacturer only provided a 3.2 kernel and drivers set).

      Of course, if hardware manufacturer took example of the desktop/laptop world, specially with AMD and Intel, and had opensource drivers stack maintained in the upstream vanilla kernel, things would be much more easy...

      My expectation regarding Fuschia are actually rather low.
      There is a ginormous invested know-how in Linux in the embed world (which itself leverage the even more giant community around Linux). It would be hard to convince all the hardware manufacturer to switch to another completely different kernel and way to develop drivers. It's a very steep uphill battle.

    • The problem to solve is why vendors, including Google's own Nexus devices

      Indeed. My response: just stop buying phones. I used to get a new one every couple of years when I felt the vendors were actually on my side. Now, amazing how well an older phone works for me. If I do buy a phone, I will get a low spec one, obviously not from Google. My money goes into more satisfying products now, like Ryzen, and soon, Threadripper, which costs about as much as a flagship phone and does a lot more for me.

  • jargon-off (Score:5, Funny)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Thursday January 18, 2018 @08:23PM (#55956901) Journal

    new interface paradigms

    Oh boy, I love new interface paradigms.

    The Ars hands-on shows a basic one that displays the time at center and Fuchsia logo in the top-left corner to switch between phone and desktop/tablet mode, while a FAB (of sorts) in the opposite corner lets users bring up WiFi controls, Login, and Guest.

    That's it? The new interface paradigm is that they have a logo in the top left?

    Ars found a working web browser that can actually surf the internet.

    Thank goodness. I was worried that there would be a working web browser that couldn't actually surf the internet.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )

      yeah so they don't have a kernel, they don't have an interface, they don't have apps..

      they have just screen mockups and no interface paradigm ready either..

      who cares. really whooo caaareess? these are dime a dozen. jut put some actual physical buttons on the sides of the phone for taskswitching and thats enough kthxbye.

  • Even with Android in a mess when it comes to duplicate apps, Google still finds it prudent to author yet another computer operating system. How this makes sense I not sure. But you tell me whether it does.

    Let them fix Android first. Let them make it near flawless first. What's wrong with that approach? Why can't Google first make a credible MS Office replacement; a MS Outlook replacement on [the] existing platform then bother with this Fuchsia?

    • Fuchsia was the escape plan in case Oracle won/wins.

    • Fuchsia going nowehere (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Watch the Android market.

      Android is crippled on the tablets. They're pushing ever tighter limits on Android apps to run in ever less memory. Driving Android Crippled(TM) onto 512Mb $30 phones that don't have a market and away from the high end where it sells loads.

      Look at Samsung's response. Notice that Sammy has launched a mass of large powerful tablets, and not one of them runs Android. All their high end tablets run Windows. Nothing bigger than 10 inches, because Android needs to be rotated to do basic o

    • Let them fix Android first. Let them make it near flawless first. What's wrong with that approach?

      Well... yes.

      Android doesn't need a new kernel. The Android system is generally much, much worse than the underlying kernel. It took them years to have anything apparoaching reasonably latency for audio on Android (sub 0.1 seconds, suitable for games). The linux APIs (both OSS and ALSA) have supported that forever.

      They went through something like 4 revisions of the BLE API becaue who the fuck knows why.

      Why can

  • Fuschia and Concerns about the Future of Linux. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Zombie Ryushu ( 803103 ) on Thursday January 18, 2018 @08:46PM (#55957013)

    The fact that Linux is the underlying OS to Android has brought a couple of things:

    1. An End to the hardware Nightmares of Linux. Linux generally is not at the mercy of Windows Drivers. Linux Drivers for Android Devices has translated well to Linux Drivers on x86 for Desktop Linux.

    2. Root on our devices. Our Devices are our devices. I don't care how much I paid for the Device. If I was sold a device retail and paid for it in full, its mine. I don't care if they were sold on Amazon. We all should be entitled to have root, and unlocked bootloaders on our devices we pay for. The manufacturer can void the warranty, but thats all. So what happens when root isn't a thing because of FushciaOS?

    3. I have enough trouble with the LineageOS Team and "unsupported devices running unofficial builds. I really hate LineageOS's behavior twoards GSM Phones, and MediaTek Devices. It makes me furious.

    • The fact that Linux is the underlying OS to Android

      Its underlying in the sense that it is the host kernel, but not underlying in the sense that Android is based on or dependent upon Linux. Linux could be replaced with Fuchsia and most Android apps would not know or care. For those apps using the NDK they may not really care either, depending on Fuchsia's POSIX support.

    • 1. An End to the hardware Nightmares of Linux. Linux generally is not at the mercy of Windows Drivers. Linux Drivers for Android Devices has translated well to Linux Drivers on x86 for Desktop Linux.

      Huh? I don't know of a single case where Android Linux driver development has made a driver available for the desktop. Mobile device drivers are very different from their desktop counterparts.

      2. Root on our devices. Our Devices are our devices. I don't care how much I paid for the Device. If I was sold a device retail and paid for it in full, its mine. I don't care if they were sold on Amazon. We all should be entitled to have root, and unlocked bootloaders on our devices we pay for.

      Linux hasn't, doesn't and will never help with this. Well, except in one way: Linux is buggy enough that it has, in the past, generally been possible to find kernel vulnerabilities to enable rooting on locked-down devices. That's a really backhanded "feature", though, since if the user can exploit the vulnerability so

  • One that has the mirriad of features of the Linux kernel. The many filesystems supported, iptables, so many drivers that are easily added, standard tools to monitor and control (e.g /proc) , ability to relatively easily build standard tools and software (sshd, webservers, network utils).

    Even for Google replicating all this in Fuchia with the many millions of man hours Linux has had put into it is probably impossible. But I guess most user's probably don't care about any this. But many embedded Android now i

  • fuschia ftw! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cas2000 ( 148703 ) on Friday January 19, 2018 @01:36AM (#55958391)

    because the world needs yet another proprietary walled garden operating system that allows the manufacturer of the device to retain control over the purchaser's property.

    wtf! how can anyone outside google think that this could possibly be a good thing?

    fuck. that.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sad_ ( 7868 )

      100% agreed, instead they could divert their energy into making changes in the linux kernel, that they really need, instead.

      Yes, it is probably hard and takes a lot of time, but how long have they been working on fuschia already? And that is not taking into account the work it will take to add new features, security, bug fixes, etc. I don't know how many people are working on fuschia, but it can't be more then there are participating in linux's development.

    • because the world needs yet another proprietary walled garden operating system that allows the manufacturer of the device to retain control over the purchaser's property.

      What in the history of Google devices makes you think that this will be a walled garden? Is it the fact that all Nexus/Pixel devices have unlockable bootloaders (except those bought from Verizon, at Verizon's insistence, and Google made sure they can be unlocked when they're paid off)? Or the fact that Android has always allowed sideloading and alternative app stores? Or the fact that all ChromeOS devices -- from all manufacturers -- have had a developer mode switch? Or the fact that Google open sources all

  • Taking bets on lifespan (Score:4, Interesting)

    by grumpy_old_grandpa ( 2634187 ) on Friday January 19, 2018 @02:11AM (#55958515)

    With Google's rich history of axing even popular projects, I fail to see how Fuchsia will get a long life. The story is always the same: A bunch of engineers get together on an exciting project. They make some progress, get their promotions, maybe even launch a half-finished product. Now comes the hard work of finishing it, but most difficult of all is to make some kind of revenue stream from it. That's where the higher VCs and senior VC come in and start cutting. Chopping projects like that might even earn somebody further promotions in "clear leadership". Rinse and repeat on a two or three year cycle.

    My bet is that Fuchsia is forgotten by the end of the 2019.

    • My bet is that Fuchsia is forgotten by the end of the 2019.

      I'll take a piece of that action. How much do you want to put on it, and how do you propose to settle it?

  • Are there any credible alternatives to Android and iOS?

    All I really need is email, a calendar, CalDAV/CardDAV sync and a full-featured web browser (Firefox, ideally). Everything else is secondary, and most things I actually need can be used in a browser.

    If the browser experience wasn't so shitty on dumbphones/featurephones, I would just be using one of those instead.

  • Flutter is Dart based (Score:3)

    by GodWasAnAlien ( 206300 ) on Friday January 19, 2018 @08:26AM (#55959431)

    They are trying to replace the OS (Android or ChromeOS -> Fuchsia), and replace the UI Framework (Java -> Flutter/Dart).

    They would be better off if they do both independently.

    Perhaps this would lfirst try to replace ChromeOS.

    But Dart? I wonder why they did not use Go?

    Internal politics at Google for Android vs ChromeOS vs Fuchsia vs Go will make things interesting.

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