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AMD Hardware

AMD Unveils 2nd Gen Ryzen and Threadripper CPUs, 7nm Vega Mobile GPUs At CES (hothardware.com) 97

Posted by msmash from the next-up dept.
MojoKid writes: AMD is unveiled a number of upcoming chip products for the new year at CES 2018, including updated next-generation Ryzen and Threadripper desktop processors covering every market segment from mobile to HEDT, and an array of Vega-based graphics products. AMD will be releasing a pair of Ryzen 3-branded mobile APUs for mainstream notebooks. The quad-core / quad-thread Ryzen 3 2300U has base and boost clocks of 2.0GHz and 3.4GHz, respectively, while the dual-core / quad-thread Ryzen 3 2200U clocks-in at 2.5GHz and 3.4GHz, base and boost. Desktop Ryzen APUs, codenamed Raven Ridge, are inbound for the AM4 platform as well. Launching on February 12 are the upcoming Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G. The Ryzen 5 chip is a quad-core / eight-thread machine with an on-die, 11 CU Vega graphics core, priced at $169. The Ryzen 3 2200G is a quad-core / quad-thread chip with and 8 CU Vega-based graphics engine for only $99. CPU core frequencies on the Ryzen 5 2400G range from 3.6GHz -- 3.9GHz (base / boost) and the Ryzen 3 2400G clocks-in at 3.5GHz -- 3.7GHz. 2nd-generation Ryzen desktop processors are on the way as well and will be manufactured using an advanced 12nm+ lithography process, leveraging the Zen+ architecture, which is fundamentally unchanged from current Zen-based processors, save for a few tweaks and fixes that improve cache and memory speeds and latency. 2nd-Generation Ryzen processors are NOT based on the Zen 2 architecture. AMD also mentioned that these new processors will be used in a new line-up of 2nd-Generation Threadripper processors. Finally, the company disclosed two new Vega-based GPUs, a Vega Mobile part with a svelte 1.7mm Z-height and second Vega-based chip, which will be manufactured at 7nm that specifically targets machine learning applications. The low-profile Vega Mobile GPU will find its ways into ultra-thin notebooks and mobile workstations, but speeds and feeds weren't disclosed. AMD also announced that it will be supporting variable refresh rate over HDMI 2.1 in the future as well.
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AMD Unveils 2nd Gen Ryzen and Threadripper CPUs, 7nm Vega Mobile GPUs At CES More

AMD Unveils 2nd Gen Ryzen and Threadripper CPUs, 7nm Vega Mobile GPUs At CES

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  • I hope AMD keep making desktop/server chips (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Hal_Porter ( 817932 ) on Monday January 08, 2018 @12:49PM (#55885735)

    Admittedly I haven't bought any of them since the Athlon XP but it's clear that when AMD is competitive Intel produces better chips.

    And hopefully the current Intel problems with Meltdown will give them a shot in the arm.

    The only problem AMD currently have is that they are not really competitive with Intel for low power mobile chips.

    The worst case is that AMD announce they're concentrating on the embedded market like MIPS.

    Also it would be good to see Via do some chips which are aimed at the mainstream laptop market.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Why would AMD suddenly start concentrating on the embedded market (where they don't have a presence to speek of) now that they finally have desktop and server CPUs that are competitive again?

      • They won't now but 'We're going to concentrate on the embedded market' is the traditional way for companies to stop competing in the desktop/server markets where they need to do an expensive microarchitecture respin every couple of years to stay competitive.

        E.g. it's what MIPS said when they stop trying to compete in the workstation market.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Khyber ( 864651 )

        "Why would AMD suddenly start concentrating on the embedded market (where they don't have a presence to speek of)"

        Uhh, console gaming systems are embedded systems. Guess what the entire current gen runs?

    • I hadn't bought any AMD chips since the Athlon days as well, but I picked up a Ryzen 1600 a few months ago and am very pleased with the performance. AMD is once again back within shouting distance of Intel's best and for way less money. And as you mention competition is never a bad thing for the end users.

    • but it's clear that when AMD is competitive Intel produces better chips.

      No, they don't. What they do is resort to anticompetitive behavior. You clearly do not know the history of Intel. [youtube.com]

    • The only problem AMD currently have is that they are not really competitive with Intel for low power mobile chips.

      I suppose it depends on what you mean by low power. AMD doesn't have anything that competes against Atom in the ~5W range, but at that power threshold it seems like most people just go with an ARM SoC anyways.

      However, AMD did just release their mobile Zen-based APUs [wikipedia.org] a few months back and they've been trickling out into the market. These are all 4-core/8-thread chips with onboard graphics in a ~15W TDP envelope. That's the same as Intel's U series processors. I think that they're reasonably close in terms

      • Last time slashdot covered AMD's mobile offerings they didn't seem all that compelling. Basically if I was going to buy a Windows laptop I'd pretty much have to buy an Intel one.

        https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

        The CPU performance of a Ryzen 5 2500U is better than a i7-7600U but worse than a i7-8550U or an i5-8250U

        The GPU performance of an Ryzen 5 2500U/Vega 8 is worse than a i5-8250U/Geforce MX150 but it's faster than integrated Intel HD620 in an i7-8550U

        The power consumption is clearly worse than a either an Intel IGP or even the GeForce MX150. E.g.

        We noted that the Acer Swift 3 with a Core i7-8250U 8th Gen CPU and GeForce MX150 pulled about 9 Watts at idle and 13 - 16 Watts under the light duty load of our HD video loop test. The HP Envy x360 15z with Ryzen 5 Mobile pulled about the same 9 Watts at idle and with similar panel brightness, but under the load of video playback with VLC, pulled 20 Watts with peaks to 30 Watts in spots. We also quickly tested CPU utilization whether running VLC or the Windows 10 video player, and saw Ryzen 5 2500U CPU utilization oscillated at a low 4 - 12 percent. So, it appears at least with respect to VLC and video playback, that Ryzen Mobile with Vega 8 graphics is more power-hungry or perhaps has a bit more driver maturity to undergo to be fully optimized.

        Generally PC laptops have two major customer groups

        1) People who don't care about GPU performance but do care about battery life, price, power consumption etc

        2) People who do care about GPU performance.

        People from group 1) are going to get a machine with an Intel CPU and use the integrated GPU.

        People from group 2) are going to get a machine with an Intel CPU and a discrete GPU. And not a GeForce MX150 either - more like a Geforce 1050 Ti.

        In which case where does the Ryzen 2500U/Vega 8 combo fit in? It doesn't have enough GPU performance for groups 2). It's not low power enough for group 1).

        If they'd managed to build something which had more performance than a MX150 they'd be fine. If they could beat Intel IGPs for power they'd be fine. But something with less performance than a MX150 and more power usage too isn't going to do well.

        Now maybe some of this could be fixed with a driver update. Still based on current performance we're going to see these machines being sold a deep discount. And if they're not commercially successful, why would AMD spend time optimising drivers?

        It's a shame really. AMD Ryzen CPUs on the desktop are actually pretty competitive with Intel. It's a shame the mobile stuff has failed to find the right market niche.

        It's a shame really - when AMD bought ATI I thought it would give them more options than Intel have given that Intel and NVidia are separate companies that get on like cats in a sack.

        • I'm hoping eGPU's start getting more adoption, because there's an option for a 3rd type of laptop
          Beefy CPU with integrated graphics while mobile, with the option to connect to an external video card for more performance when needed.

          This would be perfect for a college kid for example. Light, portable laptop for going to class; but back in the dorm they'd just plug it in to an eGPU and it can be used for gaming.

          • True. But that means people will buy type 1) machines with a Thunderbolt port (and possibly a non U CPU). I.e. they'll still want something with low power consumption when it's not linked to an external GPU. Which means AMD will still get hit by the "It's not low power enough for group 1)" issue with their solution.

            In fact Type 1 machines with a Thunderbolt port are going to be really, really common. And eGPU prices will continue to drop.

            I reckon Apple might push eGPUs. They're apparently supported well by

    • Re:I hope AMD keep making desktop/server chips (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:59PM (#55886769) Homepage

      Well AMD already did their whole diversification strategy to "Enterprise, embedded and semi-custom" which I thought would be their final "if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen" move, it created other revenue but it also diverted more resources away from competing with Intel. Back in Q2 2016 their "traditional" CPU/GPU unit was down to $435M in revenue and hemorrhaging money (-$85M) and I thought it was only a matter of time before they threw in the towel at least in the CPU market. Sure they hyped Zen but AMD had a long history of promising the world and not delivering.

      Fortunately for all of us, probably most of all AMD they actually had a winner. Last quarter (Q3, Q4 is not out yet) they had $70M in profit on $819M in sales in the same unit, that turnaround is pretty much all Zen in different variations. It was like seeing a boxer battling on the ropes being battered, bruised and dazzled making one last Hail Mary knockout attempt and hitting hard. Now if only they could do the same in the GPU market, after the GTX 9xx [wccftech.com] series totally crushed them they never quite recovered. More important than low power mobile anyway.

      • Don't knock low power mobile. A lot more people buy laptops with integrated graphics than a typical gaming rig.

        And Intel are making pretty good money in that market - look at the prices on these chips. It's $300 to $500 for an i7.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Kjella ( 173770 )

          Don't knock low power mobile. A lot more people buy laptops with integrated graphics than a typical gaming rig. And Intel are making pretty good money in that market - look at the prices on these chips. It's $300 to $500 for an i7.

          I wouldn't trust Intel's list prices on BGA processors because nobody knows what they actually sell for. Maybe that's the price for start-ups that want to buy a tray but I think Lenovo, HP and Dell pay far less the same way list price and OEM price for Windows is very different. I have seen laptop models for sale where the CPU would be a ridiculous share of the total if those prices were actually true.

          • Fair enough. But then the people who get cheap CPUs are selling them in enormous volumes. All that's happening is that if you commit to buying 10,000 CPUs you pay a lot less than someone who only wants to buy one.

            Also soldered CPUs tend to be cheaper than socketed ones.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Kjella ( 173770 )

              Fair enough. But then the people who get cheap CPUs are selling them in enormous volumes. All that's happening is that if you commit to buying 10,000 CPUs you pay a lot less than someone who only wants to buy one. Also soldered CPUs tend to be cheaper than socketed ones.

              All good points, but I think you're far more dependent on the whole ecosystem to get at that profit. Not just the things AMD controls but third party chips, OS support, put in a premium model with good screen, design, keyboard, ergonomics and so on. They're quite typecast as the "value" brand and I think OEMs would have to work pretty hard to make it sell. Whereas with desktop and server components it's a lot easier to sell on benchmarks, you deliver the FPS? It's a good gaming card. Stick it in the box of

    • Ya, when AMD get competitive Intel strips off all those pesky security checks hampering performance.

  • Buy now or wait? (Score:3)

    by Unknown User ( 4795349 ) on Monday January 08, 2018 @12:52PM (#55885761)
    *sigh* Always the same. I was about to buy a 1600X or 1800X based Ryzen System today, and now I'm unsure again. Should I buy or not? Will the motherboard change with Zen 2?
    • I would wait until some fixes come for Meltdown and Spectre.

      • Re: Buy now or wait? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        AMD isn't vulnerable to Meltdown and Spectre isn't a real threat is you on single user machines.
        Get a 1700. 8 cores, 16 threads, 65watts. $300+$100mobo.
        ITX options are around too.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      AMD is generally quite good about not changing the socket all the time like Intel does. My AM3 socket has lasted 6+ years with one CPU upgrade 3 years after I got it. It still runs great. I just acquired the 1700X, and I don't see any real reason to hold off. Sure the 7nm and improvements are nice, but if you wait for Zen 2, then you will probably consider waiting for Zen 3. I was on FX for a long time waiting for Zen, that was a worthwhile upgrade.

      • Agreed, i have a few old FX cpu's i have re-purposed for other things, like a small gaming rig for my girl, home server for files and a few other things I keep running.. But depending on benchmarks i may be upgrading her pc to a R7-1700 im typing on now and buying me a new toy to play with and learn the new overclocking quirks.

    • AMD has stated on multiple occasions that AM4 is going to be supported until at least 2020.

      Buy now.

      I'm dropping $1600+ on a new Ryzen 5 1600x based system this week as well (Technically, it's $1100 for the system and $549 for the case)

      • and I doubt Meltdown/Spectre will much change that. Heck, an i7 2600 + mobo will still set you back $150 on ebay and that's a 7 year old CPU.

    • R7-1700 owner here. Love it, Glad I purchased it even know i would have preffered waiting for Zen+ due to a few bugs in architecture and microcode. Other than that it works great, overclocks great, and runs cool while doing so. Granted some of that is the silicon lottery at play, but I've played with 5 chips and they all work well. the 1600x is a great buy especially if you plan to overclock. As far as I know and can tell the Zen+ architecture will work in current AM4 motherboards. It wont be until Zen 2 th

  • Any Threadripper boards with IPMI? and more 1p epyc boards are needed.

    • IMHO, this is the "problem" with AMD. Sure, sounds nice and "competitive", but I can get a plethora of Intel hardware with the options I want and same or better performance at a cheaper price. Volume matters. I hope to see that from AMD, but hasn't happened yet.

    • Epyc is basically the server version of Threadripper. Threadripper and Ryzen are desktop only.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/c... [reddit.com]

      • intel has desktop class server cpus the E3 ipmi boards as well.

        Small nodes don't need a 2P system or even some thing like E5 (it's hard to find 1P boards for sale)

        Also a say I want an 1U file sever I don't need $2K+ for a 8 core 8 ram channel monster when I just need say a $1K-1.2K system with ECC and IPMI.

        • That is a good point. I have a server board (cheap, no IPMI) that can support Celeron and Xeon. In fact I had to buy a cheap Celeron so I could flash the bios to make it support the newer Xeon.

          I think the main stopping point for AMD is that Ryzen and Eypc are not pin-compatible. But I feel like they could make a socket that supported both desktop and server pretty easily.

  • need ryzen-pro with IPMI like intel xeon-e3 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Monday January 08, 2018 @01:06PM (#55885849)

    need ryzen-pro boards with IPMI like intel xeon-e3

  • Do they come with spyware like Management Engine / Trustzone / <insert buzzword here>? If so, why would I want to buy one? Wake up. Nowadays, we don't want extra features, we want to get rid of them.

    • All new processors come with those. But I've got an old P4 based machine I can let you have cheap. It's only about 14 years old...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Guspaz ( 556486 )

      Both Intel and AMD CPUs do. You don't have any other practical options.

      • You always have the POWER option from IBM. Although those boxes have the management systems out in the open. I'd love to do more with my POWER6 box but nobody writes optimized code for them. Hell they clock at 5Ghz and were designed for running Virtual Machines. The hypervisor actually partitions the memory and processor resources in the hardware. AIX runs well but nothing ever compiles on it. Linux runs decently but slower in comparison because nothing is optimized.

    • It's called PSP for AMD and yes, it's there and as far as I know at the time, impossible to disable.

      • Bios modders are working on this as we speak. there is already a few that have succeeded but I think thats what spurred the PSP exploit that was just released a few weeks back.

    • AMD Secure Processor now, not PSP... (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      And the recent exploit in it, if you can get motherboards before they are revised (making it difficult to replace with the older firmware images) has an exploit which gets you fTPM access to the TrustZone/Secure Processor core, allowing you to either poke around or close the holes in the TrustZone core, so long as you don't install a newer version of the bios for your board.

      Personally I would rather have cpu SKUs with no vendor key present and the ability to run unsigned or user/administrator signed, but it

  • I would expect that AMD would make some statement on how they plan on dealing with the Spectre vulnerability which their latest CPUs are vulnerable to.

    Don't ask me to buy your net generation CPU if it is vulnerable.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by HiThere ( 15173 )

      Spectre is going to require a redesign of the CPUs for everything that does speculative execution. Someone commented that it might be enough to freeze the clock during speculative execution, but to me that sounds pretty major, and potentially crippling.

      OTOH, *so far* nobody has demonstrated a use of Spectre to break confinement, so it may be handleable in software. Perhaps without undue costs.

      But ALL the main chips are vulnerable to Spectre. Sorry about that. (I think someone said the Rasberry Pi chip w

  • in gaming with the new APUs. They're not extraordinary, but they'll play dozens if not hundreds of older steam games at 60 fps and even some of the newer ones at 30 fps. If nothing else it'll be good news for Latin America which seems to favor the APUs (I think because of how their tariffs work).

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