Enthusiast Resurrects IBM's Legendary 'Model F' Keyboard (popularmechanics.com) 184
An anonymous reader quotes Popular Mechanics: You may not know the Model F by name, but you know it by sound -- the musical thwacking of flippers slapping away. The sound of the '80s office. The IBM Model F greeting the world in 1981 with a good ten pounds of die-cast zinc and keys that crash down on buckling metal springs as they descend. It's a sensation today's clickiest keyboards chase, but will never catch. And now it's coming back. The second coming of the high-quality Model F (not to be confused with its more affordable plastic successor, the Model M) isn't a throwback attention grab from IBM, nor a nostalgia play from Big Keyboard. Instead, it's the longtime work of a historian in love with the retro keyboard's unparalleled sound and feel, but frustrated by the limitations of actual decades-old tech.
The Model F Keyboards project, now taking preorders for the new line of authentic retro-boards, was started by Joe Strandberg, a Cornell University grad who's taken up keyboard wizardry as a nights-and-weekends hobby. He started as a collector and restorer of genuine Model F keyboards -- originally produced from 1981 to 1994 -- a process that familiarized him with their virtues and their flaws... Working with a factory in China, Strandberg has carefully overseen the reproduction process one step at time, from the springs to the unique powder-coating on the keyboard's zinc case. Despite the expense (Strandberg estimates spending $100,000 to revive the tooling necessary for the production run), it was the only viable option given the kind of abuse your average keyboard takes on a daily basis. "With 3D printing," he says, "the keyboard wouldn't last a year."
The first prototypes have just left the assembly line, and he's already racked up over a quarter of a million dollars in pre-orders. Does anyone else fondly remember IBM's hefty and trusty old keyboards?
The Model F Keyboards project, now taking preorders for the new line of authentic retro-boards, was started by Joe Strandberg, a Cornell University grad who's taken up keyboard wizardry as a nights-and-weekends hobby. He started as a collector and restorer of genuine Model F keyboards -- originally produced from 1981 to 1994 -- a process that familiarized him with their virtues and their flaws... Working with a factory in China, Strandberg has carefully overseen the reproduction process one step at time, from the springs to the unique powder-coating on the keyboard's zinc case. Despite the expense (Strandberg estimates spending $100,000 to revive the tooling necessary for the production run), it was the only viable option given the kind of abuse your average keyboard takes on a daily basis. "With 3D printing," he says, "the keyboard wouldn't last a year."
The first prototypes have just left the assembly line, and he's already racked up over a quarter of a million dollars in pre-orders. Does anyone else fondly remember IBM's hefty and trusty old keyboards?
XT? (Score:4, Interesting)
Does it come with an authentic XT connector so I have to use XT>PS/2>USB so I can use it with my modern computer?
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My Model M has a 9 pin din with a connector to PS/2. Fortunately even the motherboard I bought last year still has PS/2 connectors or I'd have to add a PS/2 to USB and a scaffolding to keep things in place :) .
[John]
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I'd have to add a PS/2 to USB
Does that even work?
I had a bunch of Keytronic Flexpro ergo keyboards that had the XT five pin DIN connector. I used a DIN->PS/2 converter for years with good success. Several times I tried adding a PS/2->USB converter but it never worked for me.
The Keytronic was decent. I needed it for my RSI. I believe Keytronic were the OEM for Sun's keyboards back in the day, which were decent. My last Flexpro died a few years ago. Now I'm waiting for bloody https://ultimatehackingkeyboar... [ultimateha...yboard.com] to deliver the keyboar
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USB to PS/2 adapters are a mess.
First there are the passive adapters. These will only work if the keyboard actually supports USB but comes with a PS/2 plug. You can usually identify these because they only have one PS/2 socket.
Then there are active adapters which nearly always have two PS/2 sockets. In theory a well-engineered active adapter should work with any PS/2 perhiperal or AT keyboard (the AT and PS/2 keyboards used the same protocol but a different connector). In practice I have found them hit and
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In my experience, an "authentic" Model M has an RJ-style connector with the clips on the side instead of the top. Back in the day I got quite a few of both AT and PS/2 cables for them. The AT connector just needs a simple dongle adapter to PS/2. And of course they have no Windows keys.
But I'd rather just replace its controller board with a micontroller to make a USB version.
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I connected a keyboard to my little iMac that way because I hated the keyboard that came with it.
Selectric (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever taken one apart? (Score:4, Funny)
I figured I would do that to "clean" it. About 500 parts sprung out. I never got it back together again.
Yep. (Score:2)
I had one with my IBM PC-1. When I upgraded it to a 6MHz AT clone, and I had to use an AT keyboard, I thought I'd open it up and see why it sounded so interesting. Too bad, because I used to use it with my GRiDPad 1910, which a friend hacked a full size XT keyboard connector into for me.
Aaand they are already slashdotted... (Score:2)
Impressive—this article hasn't been up very long. You can look at the web site, but the order page is the sad.
Re:Aaand they are already slashdotted... (Score:5, Informative)
I finally just got the order page up. Prices start at $325. No thanks.
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What? That's barely more than the list price in 1981. Considering that the original was $670 in 2017-dollars, you're actually getting it at half-price!
And if you think about it as something you can pass down to your children and grandchildren (like a cast iron skillet), the cost ends up being less than $1 per month.
dom
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I can't remember having seen a site slashdotted in a long time....
I finally just got the order page up. Prices start at $325. No thanks.
The site probably still ran on 1995 hardware.
How is this better than a Model M? (Score:5, Informative)
Unicomp has been making brand new Model Ms for years, using the same tooling that was originally used by IBM to make them.
What makes the Model F better, other than the historical angle? And if it's just the historical reasons, why bother with a $300 remake instead of the real thing, when you can just buy a new Model M from Unicomp for a lot less money and get the same feel with identical inauthenticity?
If you're confused reading this, welcome to the club. :)
Modem F / M Comparison Chart (Score:5, Informative)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Man... only a 2 key rollover on the Model M - that would be of no use whatsoever for me today.
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Re:How is this better than a Model M? (Score:5, Informative)
The Model M is buckling spring over a membrane. The Model F is buckling spring over a capacitive PCB. The F is a far more complex design, it's lighter to type, has a louder sound, full n-key rollover, and is much more durable.
Crazy to think the Model M is the "cheap" solution, huh?
Re:How is this better than a Model M? (Score:5, Funny)
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> full n-key rollover
It's like fucking impossible to get this working these days. I couldn't find a mobo that met my needs AND had a PS2 port, and in *practice*, N-key rollover is never supported in USB. Frustrating. My keyboard supports it, but that isn't enough without a PS2 port.
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The Das Keyboard got Nkey to work over USB. From my understanding it connects as multiple keyboards as to keep that feature.
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The standard HID configuration for keyboards (the one that works with BIOS at boot time) has one byte of 8 modifier keys, plus 6 bytes for other keys. This limit comes from the "slow" 1.5Mbit speed of USB only allowing 8 bytes of data in a transaction. (I can't remember right now what the other byte is.) There are no key up or key down events, just a list of currently pressed keys. Anything beyond that requires the host to use a new HID configuration with a larger data response, and presumably needs the 12M
Re:How is this better than a Model M? (Score:5, Interesting)
Some connoisseurs find that the Model F's mechanism has a somewhat nicer feel than the Model M's.
Because the sensing is capacitive [deskthority.net] and not using a measly membrane, the mechanism is more durable and allows for N-key rollover [deskthority.net].
Also, Unicomp does not make the Model M in a compact form factor (relatively speaking). IBM used to have a Space-Saving Keyboard [deskthority.net] back in the day, but vintage "SSK"s on the second-hand market are quite sought-after and therefore pricey.
The build-quality of the buckling spring keyboards has also gradually gone down throughout the years. The Model F keyboards of old had case parts of parts of metal. Even the first Model M keyboards weight about half a kg (about a lb) more than those Model M keyboards made by Unicomp (and the last IBM-branded ones before that).
Re: How is this better than a Model M? (Score:2)
The only problem with Unicomp is the pointer stick... not quite a genuine Trackpoint (springier w/more travel than the original M2), but with the same flawed pointer-stick button design that wears out in a few years & eventually dies.
I actually own two genuine Model M2 keyboards (a M, with pointer stick). The keyboards are fine, but the Trackpoint buttons died years ago... and apparently, it's NOT an easy repair.
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So "Windows compatible" then.
Re:How is this better than a Model M? (Score:5, Informative)
Unicomp keyboards have a pretty terrible build quality, and I speak as somebody who is typing this on a Unicomp ultra classic. The molding is terrible, with sharp flashing all over the place and on most keycaps. I had to spend a bunch of time with an xacto knife trimming off flashing to make the thing presentable (and to make it stop scratching me). The top plate of the keyboard also doesn't fit tightly to the bottom half, so the thing creaks if you press on the top plate.
Overall, it's a nice typing experience, but they're severely overpriced for the very poor level of quality on offer.
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Stack of 'Em (Score:2)
I have a stack of the original IBM XT keyboards in the storeroom. They are PC-XT, so will not work on newer ('286 and up) machines. And they are 83 key so do not have the number pad. They mate up nice to the stack of original PC-XT machines in the same room. ( no XT clones allowed, though there is a stack of salvaged clone motherboards.)
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Oh, those without number pads are actually more sought after than the common type that do have them. If you could persuade your manager to let you have them ... *wink* *wink*.
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It's okay for your one-person office (Score:5, Insightful)
But I'm old enough to remember being in a computing lab filled with clicky keyboards back then. Heck, I remember how a room filled with typewriters sounded.
I'll take today's quiet keyboards, thank you very much.
Re:It's okay for your one-person office (Score:5, Informative)
The IBM Model F and M were specifically designed to mimic the feel and sound of IBM Selectric typewriters, since those were pretty much THE STANDARD for typewriters in offices at the time.
This way when employees would move from their Selectric to a computer, the keyboard would have a familiar feel and sound.
So yeah, the wonderful feel of these keyboards goes back to the 1960s when IBM perfected the Selectric.
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My junior-high typing class - where I learned how to type properly - had a mix of Selectrics and mechanical typewriters, while my folks had some portable mechanical made by Royal (IIRC - I can recall the plastic case/cover, anyway). I can remember the frustration with those manual typewriters - getting two or more different letters' strike bars jammed together, having to carefully reposition the paper when you needed to correct a typo you didn't immediately notice, replacing the ink ribbons (or having the r
Re:It's okay for your one-person office (Score:5, Informative)
Cherry MX series switches come in four basic types. One, I forget which, has a nice clicky feel but is also very quiet. A variety of keyboards use them and some aren't that expensive.
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Matias also makes an Alps-alike that has similar properties.
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Thanks. You are right, they keyboard I have now is MX Brown switches. Feels good and the sound is quiet but just audible enough for a little feedback in a quiet room.
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The cherry brown is the quiet tactical switch. I have it for my keyboard. It still makes a lot of noise, far more then the membrane. But I think it is because I still haven't learned to type lightly.
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At my former employer, my cubicle neighbors hated my loud and fast typings on clicky Dell keyboards (not even Model M and F types)! They were mostly females too! :/ I even made a poll and posted their comments in my http://aqfl.net/node/5825 [aqfl.net] ... ;)
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I like how you got four respondents who chose one of the "I don't use keyboards" options. There aren't that many jobs where a person won't at least occasionally need to use a keyboard (even if it's just to log one's hours).
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They make quiet mechanical keyboards - Cherry seems to have taken things to heart and have a line of quiet and noisy switches. I have a Logitech one using Cherry MX Browns and it's not as loud. Sure I can make it loud, but it's a lot quieter. Not as quiet as membrane/dome keyboards, but a LOT quieter
IBM Model M Keyboard (Score:2)
I'm sill using an original 1990's IBM Model M (PS2 style) every day. I've changed OS and computers over the decades but not the keyboard. I have to take it apart every few years and clean out the stuff from under the keys. It may be the reduced cost version of the Model F but it's still a usable, sturdy, and reliable keyboard.
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Same here. Been using an IBM Model M since 1999. Sadly not the same M, as the keyboard decoder died in my last one, but when I got the keyboards in the late 90s I decided to snatch up a few spares because I knew they'd become harder to find with time.
Shut Up... (Score:3)
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With that price, he'll be taking ALL of your money.
You Have Got To Be Kidding Me (Score:2)
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Was it really Model M or Model F keyboards, and did you sell them for a reasonable price?
Too often on eBay I see sellers trying to sell some vintage but crap rubber dome keyboard for much more than it is worth. I recon that they must have seen some real collectors' item sell for a lot and not recognised what made that one more special.
And yes, different markets are different and prices fluctuate. In the US, the going price was around $30 for a regular Model M a few years ago, but over here in Sweden the goi
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My impression is that http://clickykeyboards.com/ [clickykeyboards.com] would have taken them off your hands and listed them as well.
Real shame that ...
Call me when you have beam springs (Score:4, Interesting)
I had one for years and years. I had an interface that supplied it with the +8.5v, +5vand -2.2v it needed, took its parallel output and mapped it to an ASCII symbol set. I had one wired to a 6809 Forth machine for a few years, but it fell into disrepair when the IBM PC arrived, and suddenly I had a C compiler to code with.
and if I could find an APL one as well ... (Score:2)
If I'm spending that kind of money on a keyboard.. (Score:3)
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And thank god. Because while the idea of those were that they were washable, the reality was most people used them to avoid ever having to wash anything.
Condom is a wrong comparison. I remember when seeing those keyboards "used condom" is more what came to mind.
Eww.
/. Effect in Effect (Score:2)
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Clackity Clack (Score:2)
M and F tactile difference? (Score:2)
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I read the F is lighter, even though it is louder.
retro-Hipster-Fad (Score:3)
I used a Model F early in my career (@ 16 and 17 YO), then I moved to a Model M.
Almost no difference.
This is a pure retro/hipster/fad thing.
Get a good modern Keyboard, where you get a good backlight, lightweight, and good mechanical (for your taste) key feedback, with modern set of keys and macro-recording, and you will be much better served than reliving the days of yore...
my 2 cents YMMV
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That said, it's the M15 that's the real prize. I wonder if this guy could be talked into doing F-style internals with an M15-style erg
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The idea originated in the keyboard/enthusiast collector community which arose when manufactures when to cheap rubber dome of membrane to save costs on commodity computers in the early 2000;s. Collectors of anything only make sense to others that collect the same thing.
I have two model-m keyboards myself. Even flew one of them from Venezuela to spain (in my lugagge, where every pound counted) during my MBA in 2006. I used it consistently at work AND at home (that's why I've got two) from 1992 until 2009, when I got my first Mac and needed the Command-Key.
So no worries, I understand collecting keyborads, and I unstestand mechanical feel, as I also hate rubber/membrane/dome type keyboards. And I'll also say that the clacking of the keys helps me concentrate...
But this is 20
I say this in every keyboard thread (Score:3)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Mecha... [reddit.com]
http://imgur.com/a/7hhgx [imgur.com]
I ended up designing one like it for my own split keyboard. Works great, feels great. Just don't spill soda on it.
I'm also a fan of the Microsoft Natural layout. I got one back in 1994 that lasted for 15 years before the keys began malfunctioning, and I had to throw it out, sadly.
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If this guy would do the F internals with the M15 form factor, I'd be completely sold.
Evil Popular Mechanics site. (Score:2)
I'm not ever going to see anything at popularmechanics.com, because they pop a "We refuse to show you a damn thing because you are blocking ads" page.
Lies. I do not block ads.
I block scripts.
I'll see every ad you feel like blasting at me If. They. Are. Not. Scripts.
But I'm not allowing every random malware creator on the planet who buys an ad slot on some random ad server to infect my PC. Period.
popularmechanics.com is dead to me.
Keycap printing (Score:3)
Dye sublimation is better than just simple-minded surface printing (which is utterly unacceptable), but double-shot injection molding is preferred. Too bad they did not make the right choice. Big black mark.
For the price, include a USB hub. (Score:2)
Happy to see people care for keyboards (Score:2)
I am typing on a Kinesis Advantage. I have too. My favourite started to fail. Keypresssss reeeepeeeats and other issues. So I went ahead and un-soldered all the brown stem MX keys and replaced them by blue stem MX keys.
Now they click.
I also built an Ergodox with blue ckickies. Which is a nice project. Thru hole and SMD practice.
Which brings me to my point: clickies are cool. Heavy keyboards are cool. Slim, compact keyboards are cool.
But if you are typing on the staggered design that was designed to a 150cm
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I have too = I have two :) ...lol ...hundreds wasted on keyboards and I cannot type :O
For that price... (Score:2)
For that price, I want a keyboard with the control key in the correct location!
I would choose the DEC LK-250 instead (Score:2)
Back in the late 1970's, I learned to type on a manual typewriter. As a result, I developed a heavy typing touch, which served me well with 1980's keyboards like the VT-100 terminal. A few years later, we had VT220 terminals with LK-201 keyboards. Every key was in the right place, but the key action was lighter and I wore out them out periodically. Today, my typing touch is considerably lighter. The LK-250 is the PC (ancient DIN connector) version of the LK-201, with the alt key replacing the compose k
a nostalgia too far (Score:2)
I got rid of one from my junk closet not long ago.
The blasted thing capped my burst typing speed to about 90 wpm, by which point it kind of feels like running on wet sand—the wet sand of some strange Pop Rock planet.
I was mainly using to install obscure distributions on old beater boxes.
I'm presently typing on a Compaq 247429-101 Erase-Ease keyboard (though I never use the left thumb backspace key).
This thing has been a total workhorse and it has a brilliantly long PS/2 cable.
Every year or so it begin
Love that keyset (Score:2)
Both of my Windows tower computers at home have a IBM model F Keyboard with the function keys across the top. The oldest one has been holding up since 1993.
I don't get it. (Score:2)
Quiet keys are one of the best things to ever happen to keyboards. And yes, I am old enough to have grown up with noisy keyboards and typewriters. I hated them, and I loved it when keys got quiet.
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Plenty of cherry buckling spring keyboards available at a reasonable price.
Ya, I'm typing on one now, but it ain't made with "a good 10 pound of die-cast zinc".
Re:Not this again. (Score:5, Funny)
Shipping it in a box, in a Styrofoam padding?? WTF, if it can't be shipped straight up, that's not a model F.
Re: Not this again. (Score:5, Funny)
Without padding and a box it is a hazard to the other items in the shipping center.
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Funny, I still have one here, and after years of abuse, it probably needs a little realignment on the mirror (slightly out of focus). Yes, built like a tank.
Re:Not this again. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not this again. (Score:4, Funny)
Besides...Gateway made the best keyboards back then.
Yeah, right.
What's next, will you try to claim that a tool from Harbor Freight is better than a Snap-On tool ?
One thing Slashdot always does is bring the idiots out of the woodwork. And yes, I am calling you an idiot, Mister HornWumpus.
Re: Not this again. (Score:4, Funny)
You're just mad because your Mac Pro doesn't have a PS/2 port on it.
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Or I could put the paper currency in my woodstove and heat myself with it in winter.
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Model Ms have always been my fave but typing on Cherry Blues right now and all is well.
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I'm trying to find out the difference betweent he F and the M....?
What are the defining differences?
Re:Not this again. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm trying to find out the difference betweent he F and the M....?
I've been having some trouble with that lately too. Back when I was in school the one with a penis was the M and the one with the vagina was the F. But apparently it's a little more complicated than that now. ;-)
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My typing class you got some times (like a week) on the mechanical, then a week on the electric, then back to the mechanical, etc. Was so lovely when you were on the electric.
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Cherry's clicky switches do not use buckling springs. They have a much inferior tactile feel (and less of a sound as well).
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How do they compare to the ~ $150 WASD mechanical keyboards?
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/i... [wasdkeyboards.com]
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The WASD keyboards use a cherry switch, as do most mechanical keyboards. The ones in question recreate the buckling spring.
Personally, I really like the cherry switches, but I get if someone wants them springs back.
Re: Not this again. (Score:2, Informative)
Cherry MX switches are NOT buckling spring. They are mechanical but not the same mechanism at all.
Re:Not this again. (Score:5, Informative)
Gateway? I think you misspelled "Northgate". The Omnikey Ultra was my all time favorite.
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You are 100% correct about that control key
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In other news: Cherry makes buckling spring keyswitches.
Hint: They don't, Cherry use a completely different clicker mechanism.
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Because $10 keyboards are crap.
- They don't have the right feel for the weight of the keys
- It feels cheap
- Is the spacing in between keys correct?
- Is it going to last? Stop filling up our landfills with cheap garbage.
- Did I mention it feels CHEAP?
- Do they have the raised ridges on the F and J keys?
You can pry my Logitech Illuminated Thin Keyboard K740 [amazon.com] from my cold, dead hands but I can understand someone wanting a _quality_ keyboard.
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> Do they have the raised ridges on the F and J keys?
Fuck those things. I want to be able to remap the keys to Dvorak, like a sane person.
WASD keyboards will sell you ones with the ridges on U and H, at least.
Re:$300-400... (Score:4, Informative)
I've had $10 keyboards. Heck, I have a $100 Mac keyboard. The feel isn't the same. When I'm typing on one of my Model M's, I know what I'm typing is getting through. With the squishy keyboards, I keep having to backspace because I'm missing a letter, which sucks when I'm on a unix box typing in commands (which I do most of the day).
I've had my Model M since 89 and it still works great (I'm on it now). Work has provided Dell keyboards, Mac keyboards, and various other brand and non-name brand keyboards. Just nothing works like the IBM I have, to the point that I bought a second one just on case :)
[John]
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That's only issue if you did not try to rest the base of your palms on the bottom of the keyboard while typing. Like playing a piano, to prevent injury, it is best to not rest your hands upon anything, keeping your hands always raised fully above the keys. This is just part of good keyboarding posture, and you should *NEVER* need to flex their wr