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Robotics Businesses Hardware Technology

Washington State Orchard Owners Look To Robots As Labor Shortage Worsens (seattletimes.com) 137

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Seattle Times: Harvesting Washington state's vast fruit orchards each year requires thousands of farmworkers, and many of them work illegally in the United States. That system eventually could change dramatically as at least two companies are rushing to get robotic fruit-picking machines to market. The robotic pickers don't get tired and can work 24 hours a day. FFRobotics and Abundant Robotics, of Hayward, California, are racing to get their mechanical pickers to market within the next couple of years. Members of the $7.5 billion annual Washington agriculture industry have long grappled with labor shortages, and depend on workers coming up from Mexico each year to harvest many crops. While financial details are not available, the builders say the robotic pickers should pay for themselves in two years. That puts the likely cost of the machines in the hundreds of thousands of dollars each. FFRobotics is developing a machine that has three-fingered grips to grab fruit and twist or clip it from a branch. The machine would have between four and 12 robotic arms, and can pick up to 10,000 apples an hour, Gad Kober, a co-founder of Israel-based FFRobotics, said. One machine would be able to harvest a variety of crops, taking 85 to 90 percent of the crop off the trees, Kober said. Humans could pick the rest. Abundant Robotics is working on a picker that uses suction to vacuum apples off trees.
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Washington State Orchard Owners Look To Robots As Labor Shortage Worsens

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  • by ooloorie ( 4394035 ) on Friday April 28, 2017 @08:31PM (#54322901)

    Automation will mean that millions of low-paying, back-breaking agricultural jobs will be carried out by machines. 50-70% of those farm workers are in the country illegally.

    Those jobs will be replaced by thousands of well-paying jobs in IT, programming, design, manufacturing, and maintenance, filled by educated Americans that pay more in taxes than they require in services.

    And at the same time, agricultural products will end up being cheaper and higher quality.

    That's a good deal all around.

    • This exactly (but you forgot the engineers who design those robots.)

    • Those jobs will be replaced by thousands of well-paying jobs in IT, programming, design, manufacturing, and maintenance, filled by educated Americans that pay more in taxes than they require in services.

      All of those well-paying IT jobs are being automated, too. Does anyone remember the name of that guy who suggested there was a natural progression from blue-collar labor, to IT maintenance, to programming, then to accountancy and then to theoretical mathematics? As if mathematician was the highest calling there is.

      • All of those well-paying IT jobs are being automated, too.

        No, not all of them. But, of course, IT workers become more efficient over time as well, so you need fewer of them to do a given task over time, or, equivalently, the same number of IT workers can do more work over time.

        Increased efficiency is the only way humanity can make material progress.

    • by slew ( 2918 )

      Your comment got rated funny, but that's exactly what happened to cotton and corn. Of course the machines started low tech, but now they've got GPS self driving harvesters that use computer vision systems to sort the product as it's picked.

      Of course the machine will be heavily DRM w/o the right for farmers to repair (but that's another problem),

      Out of one fire, into another. Gotta feel for those farmers. It's a tough line of work. Foreign price pressure constantly threatens offshoring, Global warming th

      • Of course the machine will be heavily DRM w/o the right for farmers to repair (but that's another problem),

        And then some competitor will come out with a cheaper machine with open source software.

        Foreign price pressure constantly threatens offshoring,

        Actually, most farming should be offshored; it's only prevented from offshoring because of massive political lobbying. The result is higher cost of living for Americans, illegal immigration, and keeping developing nations in poverty.

        Global warming threatening th

        • If/when wwIII comes along, you might be very grateful that the US still has farms and has not turned them all into subdivisions and water parks.

          • If/when wwIII comes along, you might be very grateful that the US still has farms and has not turned them all into subdivisions and water parks.

            Ah, yes, a desire for autarky [wikipedia.org], common among fascists and other believers in totalitarian ideologies.

            Sorry, I don't care about autarky either way. Markets should decide how much farmland we need and that's it.

            If WWIII is in the offing, people will naturally switch back to agriculture in time anyway.

  • Americans should not stand for goods and service produced by forced, child, or otherwise illegal labor.

    There is no labor shortage in the United States. Given high enough pay and benefits, all jobs will be filled by legal workers.

    If picking fruit paid more and had more benefits than programming, I would have no problem picking fruit on the side.

    If the prices of goods and services are artificially low because of forced, child, or illegal labor then they will have to rise. If it's uneconomical to make a good o

    • by Anonymous Coward

      If it's uneconomical to make a good or service in the United States using legal labor, then that good or service should not be produced here. It really is that simple.

      Simple minds ( like yours, it seems apparent ) always think things are simple, but the truth of nearly all situations in the
      REAL world is those situations are not simple and involve nuances and subtleties that a person who lacks
      in-depth knowledge is not aware of.

      The US fruit industry is not going to leave the US. The fruit industry IS going to adjust to market conditions, and
      when workers are no longer available for a certain wage as they once were, the industry will seek alternatives that
      are economically op

    • Re:Illegal labor (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki&gmail,com> on Friday April 28, 2017 @08:52PM (#54322969) Homepage

      Here's what happened up here in Canada. In the late 1980's you could pick fruit/veggies/tobacco/etc and earn enough money to put you through a year of university, if you got on a good farm you could earn enough to put you through 2-3 years. This was still the norm in the early 90's, by say '94ish there was a great push of factory farms. And suddenly there were people saying "oh we can't afford to pay these people those wages." And suddenly they loosened the wage rate, and more followed suit. It went from hourly to bushel, and then you started hearing the "but people won't work for what we're paying!" So they relaxed the hiring regs, and allowed the importing of 3rd world labor to do those jobs. And the wages still fell.

      If you want to fix the problem, the laws have to be changed. Most governments have no interest in changing the laws on this, and now it's the norm. Now people are seeing this with the abuse of H1B's in the US, and here in Canada with TFW's. The difference between the two is a TFW can be used in any job. The current area we're seeing a flood of people in is with business cleaning run by fly-by-night shops that hire people who are illegally in Canada. But businesses from the CIBC(big bank up here) replacing workers with TFW's, to skilled trades in the oil patch have been hit.

      • I stopped reading your post when I got to the part about picking tobacco in Canada. Then I did a Google search, and found out about the Ontario tobacco belt [wikipedia.org]. So tobacco really is grown in Canada. I did not know that.

        • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

          So tobacco really is grown in Canada. I did not know that.

          We used to grow so much tobacco here in Ontario, that folk songs were made of it. Tobacco was the backbone of the entire industry in places like Tillsonburg, Ontario. If you want an example, see Stompin' Tom Connors [youtu.be] who's considered a country/western and folk legend here. Funny enough I spent several summers picking tobacco in the same fields he did as a kid, they don't exist anymore though. Good farmland now covered in solar panels instead of crops.

      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        In the early '80's I was picking fruit here in BC and it was all piece work. Still I could make $200 on a good day and averaged over a hundred a day, which was good money back then. There were lots of illegal workers, but they were Europeans traveling around Canada.rather then 3rd world desperate people. Lots of kids from back east as well.
        Most of the problems were created by the free trade deals. America really benefited from the first deal and we really got fucked, then Mexico was included and America als

    • Your ECON 101 course did not prepare you for the reality of the world around you. Supply and demand are both multi-dimensional and they may well never intersect in the real world. Or said another way, even if you were to offer the entire global GDP for the next 20 years, you will still not find someone able to supply you with the NCC-1701D.
    • by Jeremi ( 14640 )

      If picking fruit paid more and had more benefits than programming, I would have no problem picking fruit on the side.

      If jobs picking fruit paid that much, the fruit would be so expensive that nearly nobody would buy it, and therefore nearly nobody would grow or sell fruit. I don't think destroying the agricultural industries of the US will be considered an acceptable solution by anyone.

    • Re:Illegal labor (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Saturday April 29, 2017 @12:15AM (#54323635)

      There is no labor shortage in the United States. Given high enough pay and benefits, all jobs will be filled by legal workers.

      America's unemployment rate is at 4.7%, which is already about as low as NAIRU unemployment can go. There are 11 million illegal workers. There is no way all those jobs could be filled with legal workers. That is not realistic at all.

      If picking fruit paid more and had more benefits than programming, I would have no problem picking fruit on the side.

      Would you have any problem with the four hour commute from your desk in the city to a broccoli field in Modesto?

      ... forced, child, or illegal labor

      You are lumping together unrelated things. Forced and child labor are harmful to the laborer. Hiring an illegal worker benefits that worker. I have no problem with hard-working Mexicans coming here and making a better life for themselves. It is the laws that try to prevent that which are immoral, not the employers who skirt those laws. Just because something is illegal, that doesn't make it wrong.

  • by Snotnose ( 212196 ) on Friday April 28, 2017 @08:37PM (#54322921)
    It's harder to enter the country illegally, so it's harder to hire people illegally, so you buy robots cuz people on welfare won't do the job.

    I fail to see the problem, outside of the "people on welfare" part.
    • Trump will be ending Obama's illegal abrogation of the welfare to work program legally passed by the Republicans in the 90s and signed into law by Bill Clinton. When that program goes back into effect, you have to be actively seeking a job or training to get welfare benefits and welfare benefits taper off $1 for every $2 you earn. It reduced the welfare rolls dramatically for 15 years until Obama illegally suspended it.

    • Re:The problem is? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Friday April 28, 2017 @11:12PM (#54323421)

      so you buy robots cuz people on welfare won't do the job.

      People who can get welfare don't get hired because they can get a court to listen to them if they later complain about illegal working conditions. Hence using workers that will get deported if they go to complain.

      Those scumbags who wanted indentured labor to come back got it.

    • Re:The problem is? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Xyrus ( 755017 ) on Saturday April 29, 2017 @01:25AM (#54323811) Journal

      It's harder to enter the country illegally, so it's harder to hire people illegally, so you buy robots cuz people on welfare won't do the job. I fail to see the problem, outside of the "people on welfare" part.

      You fail to see it because your buried in your own bullshit. Companies don't want to pay minimum wage for someone to pick fruits and vegetables. Why the hell do you think these companies employ illegal immigrants in the first place?

      And even if they did, only a small segment of the population can even do it. You have to be young, strong, and healthy to carry 100 pounds sacks of apples up and down a ladder 10 hours a day. And to even make minimum wage, you're talking about moving literally tons of produce (you're paid by the pound/bushel/etc. not by the hour). Of course, you don't get benefits or insurance either. You fall off a ladder and now you're under a pile of medical debt as well as losing your job.

      It's a transient shit job that pays less than a wal-mart greeter with even less benefits. THAT'S why people don't want to do it.

  • I always thought it would be cool to have robots get rid of bugs and weeds rather than spraying chemicals. Now since they are picking the fruit/vegetables maybe they can be made to do those two things also.
  • Nobody should have to do the mind-numbing repetitive jobs that machines can do. As for the argument of "people need these jobs," perhaps you should reconsider your stance on universal basic income because this is going to start happening throughout our society. People have claimed these types of robots were fantasy but the fantasy is believing humans were needed for menial tasks.

  • There has been a lot of technological innovation in agriculture lately:

    Vertical and indoor farming
    Aquaculture
    Robotics - for far more than harvesting
    Cultured meat
    etc.

    These innovations will provide more and better food at lower cost and with less suffering of both humans and animals. It will also reduce pollution, reduce energy use, and improve food security. That seems like a win/win/win to me.

    Good to see this happening.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    and many of them work illegally in the United States.

    Ask a farmer that willingly follows the rules, there are some, they will tell you they have no cost effective method to hire legitimate labor. A worker fills in the SSN line with a number that might actually be valid with no cost effective way for the farmer to validate it.

    Which, gets us to the problem that big agriculture, and construction doesn't want to touch, a cost effective system to track labor.

  • Or you could pay your workers more. If you can't get theworkers you need at a given wage then obviously you need to offer higher wages. It's not like people have a hard time understanding supply and demand except when it comes to labor.
  • When I stayed in Germany's Odenwald (where you could get a nice apple by walking roadside anywhere, and lifting an arm), they just let the fruit drop. Then they'd scoop from the ground with a tractor, pulp, press, and make the most delicious Apfelsaft or (next year) rather strong rough cider. Appropriate technology Rules Ja Wohl.
  • This is a symptom of two much larger problems -- the coming automation of menial work leading to massive unemployment, and employers that squeeze every single inefficiency out of a process.

    If employers had a choice, they'd make people work for free -- they have no desire to pay even the minimum wage. After all, it cuts into their profits. I'm one of those people who thinks we should leave some slack in the system -- not because I'm a lazy entitled idiot, but because I don't want to see all the desperate une

    • Why do people still think something as evil as eugenics is a solution to anything or even viable? We can simply GMO edit the genes of people who have low IQs and increase it to an acceptable level. Also, I only foresee a greater need for humans. -- not less. The planets won't colonize themselves. There is a big universe out there for humans to explore while the robots do our chores.

      • So you envision sending several hundred million people out at once to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before? Good luck.

"What man has done, man can aspire to do." -- Jerry Pournelle, about space flight

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