Researchers Working on Liquid Battery That Could Last For Over 10 Years (engadget.com) 218
Jon Fingas, writing for Engadget: If Harvard researchers have their way, you may not have to worry about replacing power backs quite so often. They've developed a flow battery (that is, a battery that stores energy in liquid solutions) which should last for over a decade. The trick was to modify the molecules in the electrolytes, ferrocene and viologen, so that they're stable, water-soluble and resistant to degradation. When they're dissolved in neutral water, the resulting solution only loses 1 percent of its capacity every 1,000 cycles. It could be several years before you even notice a slight dropoff in performance. The use of water is also great news for both the environment and your bank account. As it's not corrosive or toxic, you don't have to worry about wrecking your home if the battery leaks -- you might just need a mop.
Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're just ignoring the breakthroughs that have been happening.
It's only about 15 years since a laptop was 1.5" thick, weighed 5lb, and had an amazing 2 hour battery life. In only a decade and a half the amount of energy that's been packed into a laptop battery has increased enormously.
This is also hugely visible when you look at power tools. I cordless power drill from 15ish years ago would almost certainly us NiCd batteries, with a life of only an hour or two. Modern power drills will last a full day or more with a battery pack that's substantially smaller, and that charges in a far shorter amount of time.
Re:Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:5, Funny)
This may explain why my wife is by herself in the bedroom way more than she was a decade and a half ago.
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Those are all incremental advancements. We haven't had any real breakthroughs like the semiconductor in decades.
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I think you're just ignoring the breakthroughs that have been happening.
It's only about 15 years since a laptop was 1.5" thick, weighed 5lb, and had an amazing 2 hour battery life. In only a decade and a half the amount of energy that's been packed into a laptop battery has increased enormously.
This is also hugely visible when you look at power tools. I cordless power drill from 15ish years ago would almost certainly us NiCd batteries, with a life of only an hour or two. Modern power drills will last a full day or more with a battery pack that's substantially smaller, and that charges in a far shorter amount of time.
These folks still think that we are in 15 years ago. Lawns were greener, the gaddamned teenagers stayed off of them. It's called grouchy ass syndrome.
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Re:Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:4, Insightful)
You should look at gaming laptops, some of them are a bit thick, but they really are true desktop replacements.
Yep, I discovered the same thing. My 5 year old laptop is at the end of it's life and I will likely be replacing with with an alienware laptop not because I'm a gamer but because I actually want an upgrade not a downgrade.
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Would the Dell XPS range not suit you better then? Since Dell bought Alienware they're practically the same thing, but without all the gamer gimmickry.
One of my goals is to be able to drive 3 displays, one of which is a 4k. Most laptop video cards only support 2 displays at a time and the lcd counts as one of them. The alienware line makes 3 displays and/or 4k easy as they sell a docking station that supports 3rd party video cards.
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It seems every 6 months I'm turning on the news to witness another "breakthrough" in energy storage that never seems to make it to the consumer market or anywhere else.
You should work on being less oblivious to reality. Over the last decade, batteries have become far cheaper, higher capacity, and more reliable. This progress was the result of those "breakthroughs" that you read about.
Re:Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems every 6 months I'm turning on the news to witness another "breakthrough" in energy storage that never seems to make it to the consumer market or anywhere else.
That's because there are many obstacles to making a successful battery. So basically, depending on the technology you are working with, you may need about 10 or 20 "breakthroughs" before you get a new type of battery on the market. That said, sodium batteries are on the market and they are great for storing power for your house but due to patents, VCs and assholerly in general, they are expensive.
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My thoughts exactly (no mod points today or I would have modded you up as insightful). But you use the term "news" when I get all of my science fiction tech improvements from Slashdot. I've seen many battery and motor announcements that just never seem to make it to the real world. Anyone remember that small extremely efficient motor that was supposedly going to make it to hybrid cars and revolutionize things? What ever happened to that? I can't even find traces of it in the Slashdot archives!
Sure. So what's the point? We supposed to be really pissed off? Or just not try to find breakthroughs? Or just keep the press on total lockdown until an actual breakthrough is put into successful service, a word of it getting out punishable by law if something leaks out? I mean we have a lot of people here on Slashdot who are pissed at the announcement and grousing about it. Has the technology site Slashdot been replaced by the old guys down at the Legion who hate everything? Sit at the bar, drink beer and
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It seems every 6 months I'm turning on the news to witness another "breakthrough" in energy storage that never seems to make it to the consumer market or anywhere else. Wake me when there's a product I can somehow use in my daily life.
Seems like you should tell us exactly what these breakthroughs were then.
Re:Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:4, Insightful)
"All" we have is 100GB quad-layer Blu-rays.
I bet they were once something in a lab, too.
Re:Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:5, Insightful)
Similarly we need new batteries for our new toys. But new toys have outpaced batteries.
Fortunately new batteries don't have the backward compatibility constraints that optical disks have. If there are ten billion optical disks out there, it's a big deal to suddenly try to change to a new format. Not quite so much a problem with Tesla, or even Black & Decker switching to a different battery. Not totally trivial, but not nearly the problem either.
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Sure. It just wasn't a hot news item until there was actually a viable product. Batteries, unlike blu-ray constantly make the news even when there's nothing viable to show for it.
So I guess we should just not report promising technology? Seriously, are you people like 85 years old and pissed off about your Ni-Cad stock tanking?
I'm massively skeptical about this report, it doesn't have the ring of veracity - mostly through lack of information. But I actually want to hear about it.
I tend to lend these people more credence - http://news.mit.edu/2014/liqui... [mit.edu] or these http://www.wbur.org/bostonomix... [wbur.org] even if they are a little loose with the "unlimited" http://www.wbur.org/bostonom [wbur.org]
Re:Another breakthrough! News at 11! (Score:5, Informative)
> In the 90s and 00s we'd get monthly articles about a new optical format that would store 1TB of data using holograms and fairy dust. None of them ever made it to market. Even now all we have is 100GB quad-layer Blu-rays.
They basically turned into the Archival Disc format, which has a first-generation capacity of 300GB per disc and a second generation capacity of 1TB per disc. The problem is that they keep delaying them: they were originally supposed to launch in 2015.
In the mean time, Sony went ahead and used BDXL for their Optical Disc Archive cartridge format, which stores up to 1.5TB per cartridge by sticking a bunch of BDXL discs into the cartridge. Those have been shipping for years. Once the 300GB discs are finally available, they're expected to use them to refresh their cartridges with capacities of 3.6 TB. They're meant to compete with tape. IIRC they cost a bit more but have much better random access times, and they're still much cheaper than hard disks.
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And have a real world lifetime of a few years. Archiving data is a tough job. Storing it in an amorphous, heat and light sensitive material is data suicide. Tape is still king here, and has decades of actual archival use to prove it's longevity. (yes, tape is subject to decay, but at levels that make optical discs look like play-dough.) I, personally, have tapes over 25 years old that are still perfectly readable. (and that's 15 years in a kitchen drawer, not the Svalbard seed vault.)
(* Note: choose your ta
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I'm not trying to be topper here (since the data recovery company say they do it a lot) but last year I had a few reels from the 1980s transcribed with no apparent data loss. The newer stuff is on a better plastic so is likely to last even longer.
To keep with the topic there have been some massive improvements with tape storage technology. LTO7 is 6TB per tape. That's something you don't have to handle like eggs as you need to d
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"The procedure to recover from a very old and brittle tape on the other hand is a lot more than just putting it in the right drive."
The "correct" way to preserve data is to migrate to new media as the old is replaced, not to put the old media in a corner and hope it's still readable in 20 years time.
I'm having this argument right now with a researcher who has several thousand Exabyte tapes full of astrophysics data taking up valuable storage space. My argument is that we need the space and they'd fit on a c
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FWIW: CDRW format is _extremely_ durable, because it's not dye based.
The problem is that it's very low capacity. :(
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Quoted tape lifespans are somewhat misleading.
LTO will keep for 20+ years - if used once and then put in storage.
Or the tapes will die after about 50 full write cycles (not the 162 that's claimed byt the LTO consortium)
Use them for archival OR backup purposes. Never use the same sets for both.
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the problem with BDXL is threefold:
1: They're expensive.
2: BDXL drives are rare and expensive, with only 2 makers left.
3: The lifespan of the discs is potentially less than a decade.
By the time you start taking that into account it's a better bargain to buy a (very expensive) LTO7 drive and feed it with (relatively cheap) 6TB capacity tapes. Or step back a generation and buy a (cheaper) LTO6 drive and (very cheap) 2.5TB tapes. (those are raw capacity, not the "compressed" claims made for them)
The only cavea
Big battery will put a stop to this (Score:2, Funny)
They don't make money if you're not replacing your batteries all the time.
Recharge by Refill (Score:2)
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wouldn't you also have to replace the (presumably solid; the battery shell has to be solid or it gets messy, and some point(s) on it have to conduct) electrodes?
Re:Big battery will put a stop to this (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't make money if you're not replacing your batteries all the time.
These flow batteries are targeted for home and grid storage, which is a market that currently barely exists. No powerful incumbents are being threatened. Utilities would be affected, but in a good way, since more grid storage would diminish the need for unprofitable "peaker" generators.
Re:Big battery will put a stop to this (Score:4, Interesting)
Home and grid storage are unique in their battery needs. Unlike transportation and portable devices, energy density by volume and by weight is less of an issue than the amount of charge cycles. NiFe batteries are solid performers, but being able to have better energy density, and not have to worry about watering the batteries or worrying about offgassing is a plus.
Of course, this by itself won't revolutionize things, but you pile up all the improvements happening with batteries, and we are actually getting somewhere. Once we get batteries within an order of magnitude of propane or gasoline with regards of energy density by volume, the transportation industry will be as radically changed as it was when the internal combustion engine did to the industry in the past century.
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Well, and charge/discharge efficiency.
NiFe batteries have a pretty atrocious efficiency: ~65% for charge, ~80% for discharge, or approximately 52% round-trip. Although like all batteries, the efficiency varies depending on the SOC. For instance, avoiding the top 25% of charge would bring this up some.
IIRC lead acid numbers vary quite a bit, but a charge/discharge regimen that won't eat your batteries in short order is around 72%, round trip.
Li-ion battery types (and there are lots) can be over 90% round tri
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which is a market that currently barely exists
No battery like this on the market is a reason why the home/grid storage market doesn't exist. The grid has been betting on capacitor-based storage so far, since they're not seeing anything else coming along.
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which is a market that currently barely exists
No battery like this on the market is a reason why the home/grid storage market doesn't exist. The grid has been betting on capacitor-based storage so far, since they're not seeing anything else coming along.
Check out what Los Angeles is doing.
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They don't make money if you're not replacing your batteries all the time.
These flow batteries are targeted for home and grid storage, which is a market that currently barely exists. No powerful incumbents are being threatened. Utilities would be affected, but in a good way, since more grid storage would diminish the need for unprofitable "peaker" generators.
But it isn't coal, the official fuel of Slashdot.
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Hmm, I'd wear gloves when cleaning up a spill... (Score:4, Informative)
Ferroce isn't harmeless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] and viologen isn't a nice substance either http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/ca... [sigmaaldrich.com]
Re:Hmm, I'd wear gloves when cleaning up a spill.. (Score:5, Funny)
Don't forget it's mixed up with water and also with electrolytes, which are both safe - even for plants.
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Ferroce isn't harmeless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] and viologen isn't a nice substance either http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/ca... [sigmaaldrich.com]
How come ferrocene gets a wikipedia page, but viologen has to make do with the Aldrich Chemicals page?
Ready for sale or GTFO (Score:3)
Promises in advanced batteries are borderline worthless. Everyone has a superior battery.....that they can't deliver one. /Sakti3/ Sumitomo low-temp molten , etc.
Ambri / Sadoway "dirt-cheap, made from dirt" / Japan Power Dual-carbon / Phinergy's aluminum-air
Hal's Battery Blog has notes on battery announcements going back years. Many, many promises, not many tangible advances.
https://halsbatteryblog.wordpr... [wordpress.com]
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Would be interesting to see if patents were awarded. And if they were sold, who bought them. I'm sure we'd see a lot of oil companies in that list.
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Energy companies, today they are energy companies.
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Many of these technologies may have promise - iff they get sufficient manufacturing infrastructure development to bring their costs into line with competing, established technologies.
When it takes a Billion dollars and ten years on a chance to have a 10% better widget, most investors lose interest.
Article is extremely vague (Score:4, Insightful)
One more press release about a laboratory demonstration with an undefined time to market.
Just about zero technical details, why did I click on it?
Haven't we had enough of this stuff, Slashdot?
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Hey, patent filing costs money. They have to be vague until the vulture capitalist gets tricked into backing the "research" project which is really a veiled attempt at keeping a materials engineering professor supplied in paychecks and lab equipment and his PhD students supplied with dissertation subjects.
If they actually disclosed anything actually informative, somebody could possibly figure out the secret and beat them to the patent filing, capture the investment dollars or prove that their idea is junk
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To be fair, these are research projects. The things they describe usually work, but may not have all the properties you would need to make a commercially successful battery. For example, the cell voltage; it should be as high as possible, some cell types are below 1 volt, which is really too low. Or it may not have very good current capacity, so you'd need excessively large membranes. Or loads of other things.
This is primary research, they're announcing that they've managed to get excellent stability, via s
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Because the text was between <a> and </a> tags.
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One more press release about a laboratory demonstration with an undefined time to market.
Just about zero technical details, why did I click on it?
Haven't we had enough of this stuff, Slashdot?
No, I find it fascinating to be ahead of the curve on learning about this and other "maybe" technologies. I remember hearing about DVDs years before they hit the market and thinking "oh cool". The thing is, you have to accept a low % of these cool techs ever make it.
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One more press release about a laboratory demonstration with an undefined time to market.
Just about zero technical details, why did I click on it?
Haven't we had enough of this stuff, Slashdot?
No, I find it fascinating to be ahead of the curve on learning about this and other "maybe" technologies. I remember hearing about DVDs years before they hit the market and thinking "oh cool". The thing is, you have to accept a low % of these cool techs ever make it.
The other thing is, that a lot of other cool tech comes eventually from the failures.
I really get annoyed with all the whining from people who expect every advance to be finished in time for next quarter's corporate sales bonuses. Or worse yet, nay-say entire technologies because they're not yet perfect (solar, anyone?) We live in an era where progress happens at a dizzying rate and people nevertheless grump that discoveries don't all have instant commercial application and that they're being lied to or eve
The published article (Score:3)
It seems that they're claiming energy densities of ~20Wh/L; wikipedia quotes 250-676 Wh/L for lithium-ion, however, TFA is referring to a flow cell, so it's a bit apples and oranges...but as far as using one of these in your phone, don't hold your breath.
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...but as far as using one of these in your phone, don't hold your breath.
As opposed to using a phone in one of these, DO hold your breath.
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It seems that they're claiming energy densities of ~20Wh/L
Compare that to petrol which has an energy density of 46.4MJ/kg which is 12.9kWh per "equivalent litre" (1l water has a mass of ~1kg but petrol itself is less dense than water). Now you gain something back because an internal combustion engine is far less efficient than an electric motor but even if you assume it is ten times less efficient (which is not the case) you would need a fuel tank ~64 times larger to have the same range as an internal combustion engine.
Even for a laptop you would need a 4 litr
Re:The published article (Score:4, Informative)
The subtitle of the article makes it pretty clear that the handheld market is not what is being targeted here:
It might be an ideal form of energy storage for solar and wind power.
It's intended for fixed-location installations where physical volume isn't such a concern, so energy density, while important, doesn't matter as much. The same niche is currently occupied by the nickel-iron battery that was recently mentioned in another /. article that I can't put my typing fingers on right at the moment. Same issues there: high reliability and lifetime, but (comparatively) poor energy density suggests power-smoothing for solar or wind would be an ideal application.
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Yes, this is the case because you have tanks holding the liquids, and these are flowed through a cell to extract the energy. The volume of the tank sets the amount of energy stored, and the surface area of the cell where charging/discharging takes place sets the power.
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Yes, but Apple uses Lithium Ion batteries so that would be cheating.
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20 WH/L is not incomparable with other flow batteries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Lithium ion batteries are hugely more energy dense, but that's not the point, the idea of flow batteries is that they may be super cheap.
Are we now linking contentless articles? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Anything that doesn't have enough energy to go boom if the contents are spilled/mixed/come in contact while charged won't have enough energy to power whatever portable device I'm likely to be using. I would check to see that the energy density is low, but there isn't a single link to the actual research in the article, nor to even the researchers name, just "Harvard Researchers." This article would get a failing grade in a 3th grade science fair. It's no wonder people believe lies when you can just post any
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You can spill water. You can spill oil. Neither goes boom when doing so.
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That's because it's in a form that does not allow for the rapid release of electrical power. This will be in a form that is specifically designed to release power, or it's going to be pretty useless as a high capacity/high draw battery.
You might say the same about gasoline - you can spill it, but it's certainly not "safe." And if it should spill while actively producing power (aka on fire), it's going to get messy really fast.
Re:Are we now linking contentless articles? (Score:4, Interesting)
However (Score:2)
Water doesn't tend to be the problem (Score:3)
Water doesn't tend to be the problem in aqueous solutions. The fact that it's a solution means that you've got these other chemicals in your water if it spills. I doubt anything that stores a high amount of charge is something you want to casually mop up while the kids and pets lap it off the floor.
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If your kids lap liquid spills off the floor, you might get a visit from child services.
A "liquid battery"? GENIUS! (Score:4, Insightful)
And perhaps 130 years from now, someone will find a way to encapsulate or solidify the electrolyte to prevent spillage or evaporation. Maybe they'll call it a dry cell [slashdot.org].
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Re:A "liquid battery"? GENIUS! (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe after they invent it they can teach people like you that there are benefits and downsides to each type which is why wet cell is still the most commonly used technology in high current applications today.
Nontoxic Viologen? (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of energy, itty bitty space (Score:2)
Be it a battery, gasoline or plastic explosives, any time you pack a lot of energy into a small space, there is some risk of the energy being rapidly released. You can make it safer, but not 100% safe.
Hard to get a battery with a huge storage density that truly isn't somewhat dangerous. A lot of energy in a small space tends to look like a bomb.
This is little energy in a lot of space (Score:2)
And this is the opposite - use a lot of space to store a little bit of energy. Something like 1/10,000 the energy density of gasoline or so.
Lead acid battery is water soluable too (Score:2)
Thousands of cycles, too. A lead acid battery can be cleaned up with a mop but I wouldn't recommend using that mop to clean your floors afterwards.
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I used my cotton mop to clean up my battery acid spill, but it asploded next time I tried to mop the kitchen.
Cap'n Crunch, no!!!!
Solid batteries (Score:2)
The *electrolyte* lasts a decade, not the battery (Score:5, Informative)
They've developed an electrolyte which doesn't degrade as readily and can last a decade. The battery does not last that long. Its cathode and anode still need to be replenished to recharge it.
Researchers Working on Liquid Battery That Could (Score:3)
Seems like the primary point of this battery tech is getting slam-dunked by the mobile phone and personal device power crowd. It's NOT a matter of energy density (although that is a moderately important issue), but the LONGEVITY / RECHARGE CYCLES of this battery tech.
Hell, even if it is 10 times the size of current lithium tech batteries, the fact that it can survive for a DECADE of charge / discharge cycles makes it a REAL plus in the 'load levelling' supplemental power arena, especially since they won't be stressed to full discharge / recharge on a daily basis - - - which SHOULD effectively extend the useful lifespan to several decades.
It's not a question of how much power you can pack into a given volume, it's HOW LONG the battery can perform before needing replacement - - - and this tech really seems to be a contender for bulk power storage for dealing with peak demand power usage - with a very long life cycle.
Please get off the volumetric power rants, and look at the feasibility of using this type of battery, even if it takes up a lot (relatively) of space, and consider it's application as a serious long-term power load leveling technology.
Consider, also, that it is much smaller than compressed air, elevated water, or molten salt storage systems, and appears to offer much lower maintenance / support expense, since it is basically an electrical cell that probably only requires a reasonable thermal environment.
Yeah, I've made some assumptions - that may be way off base - but at least I'm NOT trying to cram this LONG-TERM, HIGH-RECYCLE, ELECTRICAL STORAGE technology into a miniaturized application (phones, laptops, watches, etc.) that it was never intended for.
Capitalism of today will destroy this. (Score:2)
"The use of water is also great news for both the environment and your bank account..."
The lack of corruption and greed would also be great news for capitalism, but much like a battery that lasts 10 years, we'll never see that shit happen to benefit the masses.
Don't ever fucking assume something that would last 10 years would end up being "good" for your bank account. In today's environment of overpriced disposable electronics and SaaS, promoting a long-term bargain is practically illegal.
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Great news but I live in Canada. Any battery tech needs to be testing at -30 Celsius before I care.
Is the interior of your igloo usually that cold? I doubt that very much.
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Is the interior of your igloo usually that cold? I doubt that very much.
No but the exterior often is in the winter and that's usually where the car spends most of its time. Plus who wants a mobile which will not work outside half the year?
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No but the exterior often is in the winter and that's usually where the car spends most of its time. Plus who wants a mobile which will not work outside half the year?
These flow batteries are not for mobile phones and cars. They are for grid storage, which can be installed in a heated area.
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I can't see anywhere where the researchers say "Oh, you won't be able to use this for that".
Not in TFA, but you are allowed to read other sources, and educate yourself about batteries in general and flow batteries in particular. Flow batteries are big. They use pumps and valves. They are for industrial grid scale storage, or maybe grid endpoint storage for a homeowner with solar. They ain't going in no stinkin cellphone.
What if the heaters are only turned on when people are home?
Then their water pipes will freeze and crack, and they will have a flooded basement. People who live in -30C climates don't turn the heat completely off and then go on vacatio
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I don't let the robotic dogs for my sled come into the igloo at night so their batteries have to survive outside in very cold conditions.
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Great news but I live in Canada. Any battery tech needs to be testing at -30 Celsius before I care.
And I live in Texas where we need to survive at nearly 90 Celsius when leaving a phone in your car in August...
Between you and I, That's quite the temperature range...
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90C in a car? Are you sure you didn't mess up with the conversion? Only 10C more and you're boiling water.
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He is a little high but not much. 150-160F is very likely in texas or about 65C. I've seen local news "bake" things inside cars to demonstrate just how dangerous leaving a child in a car is in texas.
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He is a little high but not much. 150-160F is very likely in texas or about 65C. I've seen local news "bake" things inside cars to demonstrate just how dangerous leaving a child in a car is in texas.
And Florida.
I used to have a car with a thermometer stuck to the dash. In the dead of Winter, it would be pegged (140 F or more). I used to leave frozen dinners on the dash when I went into the office in the morning and they'd be hot in time for lunch.
That was back when it actually got cold outside in the winter, too.
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I put a temperature datalogger under some wadded up white t-shirts in the back seat of my car with the windows rolled up and left it in the parking lot at my work all day each day for a week (usually I crack the windows and put a reflector on the windshield).
The highest temp I saw was 172F (~78C).
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That is why... I want to emigrate to New Zealand to get away from Trump instead of Canada like the everyone else. That and maple syrup, of which, even the smell of it makes me gag.
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Presumably a water battery would be too bulky for a car. Even if battery used for powering car, the battery wouldn't be in the cabin so wouldn't be exposed to that heat. If battery was in engine block it could even have it's own fans, or liquid cooling to stay cool.
Re:And the freezing temperature is...? (Score:5, Informative)
He said Canada, not USA.
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Fake news! Fake news! The WHO is Chinese communist plot to destroy the straight, WASP American family! /s
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The only other country i've been to is canada and that was only for a few hours to see Niagara Falls but since 9/11 the borders have been closed so you can't even do that now without a passport.
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The only other country i've been to is canada and that was only for a few hours to see Niagara Falls but since 9/11 the borders have been closed so you can't even do that now without a passport.
Why would you even post bullshit like that?
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They just need 11, no 20, no 30 million (whatever the latest number is) illegals weighing down the system.
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Keep calling everyone you disagree with a fascist. And then wonder why things don't work out.
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From what I've read on Slashdot a few months ago, the only tech that has a chance of getting outside the lab is robots. But they get captured again a few hours later.
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It's got what power plants crave.
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This page [allaboutbatteries.com] suggests that D cells are around 20Wh. According to Wikipedia, [wikipedia.org] a breadbox is (30 cm) x (15 cm) x (15 cm) = 6.75 liters, larger than the ~1L needed to match a D cell -- so it seems to pass your test =)