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United States Hardware

Samsung Halts Galaxy Note 7 Production Temporarily (wsj.com) 121

Posted by msmash from the deja-vu dept.
Samsung is halting production of its Galaxy Note 7 smartphone after the replacement units -- the second batch of Note 7 produced -- by Samsung also seemed to be riddled with a similar issue, with nearly half a dozen of explosion and burning issues in the past week alone. Yonhap News Agency, and the WSJ are both reporting that the halt was done in cooperation with safety regulators from South Korea, China and the United States. From a WSJ report: Samsung's move comes after a spate of fresh reports of problems with replacement phones that have been distributed to consumers around the world. While Samsung hasn't confirmed the reports, it said in a statement Friday in response to one report that it would "move quickly to investigate the reported case to determine the cause and will share findings as soon as possible."
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Samsung Halts Galaxy Note 7 Production Temporarily More

Samsung Halts Galaxy Note 7 Production Temporarily

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  • Ha ha (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Sent from my iPhone 7.

  • Too much thin phones and thin batteries (Score:5, Insightful)

    by samjam ( 256347 ) on Monday October 10, 2016 @03:54AM (#53045657) Homepage Journal

    I think the quest for ever thinner phones and ever thinner batteries is to blame.
    I want thicker phones with longer life.

    I also think a battery-only recall would have been cheaper, so there is a lot to be said for removable batteries too.
    I want user-replaceable batteries

    I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I do know what I want.

    • This is more a problem of battery management. These Li-ion batteries need a specific and smart power input. Sounds like the embedded driver, probably not firmware updatable, is defective.

      • Re:Too much thin phones and thin batteries (Score:5, Interesting)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Monday October 10, 2016 @05:26AM (#53045955) Homepage

        Sounds much more like an overheating CPU too close to a way to cheap poorly insulated battery (internal batteries are much cheaper than user replace able batteries). The CPU alters the conditions of the battery, so the battery generates more heat, heating the CPU which heats the battery (higher temperatures more electrical resistance, leading to higher temperatures). So the design is inherently bad and the phone has to be scrapped IMHO they kind of deserve it for removing user replacebale batteries from Notes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com], I am a bad man ;D.

        • If only there was a way for a massive tech company with highly skilled engineers to find out if a phone is overheating its batteries.

          Like holding it in your hand, for example.

          And why would they burst into flames when not in use and not charging? Only rtb61 knows the answer...maybe Samsung could hire him!

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by rtb61 ( 674572 )

            If they did that it is not surprising why it failed. It really is much more complex than that. Variability in battery manufacture, variability in CPU heat output, environmental conditions not just current but the worst condition recently experienced (phone on car dash for too long, affecting future performance of the battery), improperly coded applications driving the CPU to maximum use uncontrollably. So a complex conjunction of all of those events triggering catastrophic failure over time (dependent upon

        • Re:Too much thin phones and thin batteries (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Zuriel ( 1760072 ) on Monday October 10, 2016 @07:32AM (#53046319)
          Phones have temperature sensors and will stop charging if the battery temperature gets too high, or throttle the CPU or even power off entirely if it gets too hot. Unless you leave it on the dash of your car in summer and the device can't control its temperature, heat can't really cause a catastrophic failure like this. It's more likely to be the battery developing an internal short circuit due to a manufacturing fault in my opinion. There's no way to handle that besides better quality control.

          • Assuming of course the sensors are in the right place.
            Bottom line, I still have my old Samsung Note 7 (pre-recall) because 1) I don't believe they solved the problem and 2) The old phone has a software limit on charging speed.

            I suspect the real solution will be the Note 8

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            When you rapid charge batteries it can do funny things to the chemistry, and plus you are expecting rapid temperature rise and high current flow that would be the normal danger signs when there is a battery fault like a short. I think it's likely that their batteries are the same quality as ever, it's just that they can't detect when they are about to explode any more because the conditions are too similar to a normal rapid charging session.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Zuriel ( 1760072 )
              You only see high current flow with an external short. I'm talking about a connection between the electrodes inside the battery, where the phone's circuitry can't do anything about it. There's no warning before the short forms, and as soon as it does form it's all over. The phone probably powers itself off. It just doesn't make a difference.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                Dendrites are usually caused by overcharging, which as you previously mentioned, would indicate either a charge circuit design flaw (e.g. too high a charge voltage) or a hardware/firmware bug that causes the charger to stay in rapid charge mode for too long. But the GP is also correct in saying that rapid charging makes it more challenging to choose the proper temperature cutoffs to prevent thermal runaway.

            • When you rapid charge batteries it can do funny things to the chemistry, and plus you are expecting rapid temperature rise and high current flow that would be the normal danger signs when there is a battery fault like a short. I think it's likely that their batteries are the same quality as ever, it's just that they can't detect when they are about to explode any more because the conditions are too similar to a normal rapid charging session.

              There you go!

              As I have said repeatedly, their marketing droids said "What?!? We can't have a FOUR HOUR charge time when the iPhone charges in TWO HOURS! I don't care if the battery is twice the size. Make it happen!!!"

              And so they went back to the battery data, and redesigned the charging profiles so that they used the "Maximum Limit" on temperature as the "Spec" instead of the "Recommended Limit".

              And now, Witness the result.

        • Here [express.co.uk] is what a Galaxy Note7 looks like inside. The CPU is behind the metal cover left of the battery. This is basically how most modern phones look like inside (except Sony, they still have the CPU above the battery).

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Dan East ( 318230 )

          The last batch of "fixed" phones that have caught on fire have not even been in use. The last few caught fire during the night when hooked up to a charger. They seem to be catching fire around 4 - 5 AM, which assuming the phone was plugged in at midnight of before, should be after the battery is fully charged. So at first blush it would seem the batteries are being overcharged. However, the phone that caught on fire on the airplane was apparently not in use or plugged in. In fact he said he had turned it o

          • and since it didn't manifest in Samsung's testing, they hoped it was purely a problem with the other batteries.

            FTFY

    • Cure you and your futuristic technology. Why can't we just stick to the technology of 10 years ago.
      I mean just ask Sony batteries never exploded then!

    • I think the quest for ever thinner phones and ever thinner batteries is to blame.
      I want thicker phones with longer life.

      What I think you're trying to say is that you want a bigger fire!
      Well IBM can help you with that. A device that doesn't comfortably fit in any pocket and actually meets the common definition not just the media definition of"exploded".

      The solution here is not more lithium.

    • This never happened with my land-line phone! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Monday October 10, 2016 @06:18AM (#53046113) Journal

      This quest for ever thinner phones with their thin batteries is only to blame if you dislike the downsides of pushing technology forward.

      Any time you demand a considerable amount of energy storage in a small package, it has a certain amount of danger of catching fire or exploding.

      We've randomly seen various models of laptops catch fire or explode too, and many of those weren't all that thin, nor would you describe their batteries as "thin" -- especially compared to any smartphone ever manufactured.

      I can't say I know exactly where Samsung is failing this particular time, since competitors have similar sized devices with similar sized batteries that are clearly working more reliably? But it sounds like they wrote things off as a simple battery production defect when it might turn out to be a more complicated problem to fix. (As someone else said - maybe they have the battery sitting too close to the CPU or other chips that help warm it up past a safe operational parameter?)

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Everyone knows that the thinner it gets the more volatile it is, which is why paper explodes so spectacularly [youtu.be]. Just hope they never make a paper thin phone, especially one made out of wood products. Fortunately I hear wood isn't a very good conductor.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PeelBoy ( 34769 )

        Pushing technology forward doesn't have to mean thinner phones.

        You can push technology forward by creating longer lasting phones, and that would be more beneficial to most of us than shaving off another 1mm from the thickness.

        We've reached the point where phones are thin enough for now. Concentrate on improving other things, and including the features we want instead of getting rid of them for the sake of thinness. We're literally regressing in features in order to free up space and make phones thinner.

        I'm

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        We've randomly seen various models of laptops catch fire or explode too, and many of those weren't all that thin, nor would you describe their batteries as "thin" -- especially compared to any smartphone ever manufactured.

        Hell, look at the so-called hoverboards. Those things aren't thin, or small. And yet they regularly burst into flame

        Samsung had a problem with Samsung-made batteries, so they replaced it with their other supplier. But then they revealed there's a further problem with their battery manageme

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I think the quest for ever thinner phones and ever thinner batteries is to blame.
      I want thicker phones with longer life.

      I also think a battery-only recall would have been cheaper, so there is a lot to be said for removable batteries too.
      I want user-replaceable batteries

      I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I do know what I want.

      The problem is they cannot figure out whether it's a battery issue or the phone is making the batteries explode. Now with the replacement Note 7's exploding it seems more like the latter case because I am sure in the replacement phones the least they would have done is replace the batteries with a different kind.

    • 3500 mAh is a problem. Just stick to 3200 and optimize the apps (we have been doing it for 60 years, and until they will discover something like Moore law for batteries, I guess will have to stick to software optimization for now)

      My previous phone was Droid Maxx, first phone with 3500 mAh battery and it was hitting like crazy. Eventually it started to bulge (luckily after retirement), and I disassembled it and disposed of it before it exploded.

      • 3500 mAh is a problem.

        It is when you try to charge it in the same time that Apple charges the iPhone's 2000 mAh battery. My iPhone 6 Plus charges from 0 to 100% in 2 hours (maybe even less), and barely gets warm to the touch (I'd say about 40-42 deg. C outside case temp as a guess, based on skin temp).

        And keep in mind that, according to Ars Technica's testing, the iPhone 7 with nearly 1/2 the battery size, gets about 96% of the battery-life under similar conditions as the GN7, (and the 7 plus gets better life than the GN7).

        S

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Willing to trade thickness for battery life? You can get a case on Amazon that'll double or triple you phone's battery capacity for $20-30. Problem solved.

    • I think the quest for ever thinner phones and ever thinner batteries is to blame.

      MARKETING! STAT! New product and campaign. Moshi moshi.

      New phone rounded edges and corners thinner no buttons.
      Like all our other phones?
      No, different. Quadrilateral yet not rectangular. This shape.
      That is a coffin shape. Looks like.
      Yes I drew it much to show, but real angle here no more than 5 degrees off vertical.
      But everything we make is rectangular! People want display go to edge.
      Make people want this instead. Put button or something in edge part, new shape is important.
      Why this idea? Why now?
      We must cha

    • in the past it was all the cheap batteries people bought on the internet that used to result in fires and explosions

  • Wasted headline opportunity (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "Samsung Galaxy Note 7 production bombs"

    "Samsung Galaxy Note 7 business is booming"

    "Samsung Galaxy Note 7 is a product truly built to blast"

    • Samsung overcharged for quality assurance services.

      • But but the users are the testers. Just ask Microsoft?

        QA is a cost center that adds no ROI or any business value and takes away from shipping our product to the customers for Christmas.

    • "Samsung Galaxy Note 7 is a product truly built to blast"

      I like that one.

  • Why even bother? (Score:3)

    by wkwilley2 ( 4278669 ) on Monday October 10, 2016 @06:21AM (#53046125)

    Realistically as other have said....how much money could Samsung have saved if they had made the battery removable and just sent everyone a replacement battery?

    If that's not the issue, then obviously that's not going to solve the problem, but the quest for super thin phones is the cause of these issues. Why make a phone this thin if you're just going to put it in an otterbox?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Because you can use a thinner otterbox

    • Realistically as other have said....how much money could Samsung have saved if they had made the battery removable and just sent everyone a replacement battery?

      You are presuming the battery is the actual root cause of the problem. Odds are very good that the source of the failure is somewhere else. In fact swapping the battery appears to be the first thing Samsung actually did and they still are having problems.

      If that's not the issue, then obviously that's not going to solve the problem, but the quest for super thin phones is the cause of these issues.

      It's not at all clear that that is true. Nobody currently knows what they actual cause of the problem is including apparently Samsung. It could be buggy control software. It could be improperly designed thermal management. It could be from physical da

      • I don't use protectors of any kind, but I knew more than just a couple middle-America, middle-class folks who ALWAYS get the hardest, most solid-looking case they can find (irrespective of whether these actually help or which cases perform best). Why? Because their phone is one of their largest investments and a critical piece of everyday tech that they want to protect.

        They appreciate the thinnest phone possible precisely because *after* they put it in an Otterbox it will still be manageable, whereas when t

        • They appreciate the thinnest phone possible precisely because *after* they put it in an Otterbox it will still be manageable, whereas when they had an iPhone 4 or whatever, the Otterbox made it significantly thicker than an old Nokia candybar.

          Or a better solution could be for Apple (and other smartphone makers) to release a phone that didn't actually require a protective case in the first place. Design it so that it can take a beating. Yes this would be thicker and speaking solely for myself I would be fine with that. Nobody used to have a protective case on their Nokia because it didn't need one. There is no fundamental reason why smartphones have to be different in that regard.

    • Realistically as other have said....how much money could Samsung have saved if they had made the battery removable and just sent everyone a replacement battery?

      Probably very little. Consider
      a) they have a massive logistics network around the world which makes the cost of shipping products tiny.
      b) they have a massive amount of cheap labour to effect a repair.
      c) as a producer of the parts including the display itself they have very low part replacement costs.
      d) having an all in one glued shut case is significantly cheaper to design and may even be cheaper to manufacture.
      e) the problems which have occurred need to be examined by comparing to the total number of devic

  • I am deriving lots of schadenfreude from this fracas. I just hope that Samsung, a rather despicable company, with their heavy-handedness, built-in obsolescence, arrogance, and useless customer service, will not recover from this.

    • I am deriving lots of schadenfreude from this fracas. I just hope that Samsung, a rather despicable company, with their heavy-handedness, built-in obsolescence, arrogance, and useless customer service, will not recover from this.

      Not to mention that they wouldn't even have a viable Smartphone business at this point if they hadn't copied the original iPhone (and in fact, every other iPhone thereafter) down to nearly the last pixel.

  • Replaceable batteries

  • It's time for Samsung to consider that phone model deader than a doornail. The bad press is widespread, the jokes about it are still pouring out, people's confedence in the product is lost and never comming back no matter what their marketing droids do. What Samsung needs to do is bury it, and their next product should not even bear the "Galaxy Note" name, otherwise it's financial suicide.

  • So, likely Samsung could not really reproduce the defect and verify the causes in their own lab or they would not have shipped replacement devices with same defect.

    One possibility is that the battery, charging circuits or even the heat dissipating glue to keep the battery in-place gets damaged during shipment. How much control is there on sea containers for extreme temperature variations, humidity or vibrations?
    I can figure thermal glue loosing contact with the battery (or other hot operating component) on

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