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Dyson Will Spend $1.4 Billion, Enlist 3,000 Engineers To Build a Better Battery (digitaltrends.com) 244

Posted by BeauHD from the eyes-on-the-prize dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Digital Trends: Among the 100 new products the company founder James Dyson wants to invent by 2020, the greatest investment in people and money is to improve rechargeable lithium-ion batteries, as reported by Forbes (Warning: paywalled). And Dyson is not planning incremental improvements. His opinion is that current Li-ion batteries don't last long enough and aren't safe enough -- the latter as evidenced by their propensity to spontaneously catch on fire, which is rare but does happen. Dyson believes the answer lies in using ceramics to create solid-state lithium-ion batteries. Dyson says he intended to spend $1.4 billion in research and development and in building a battery factory over the next five years. Last year Dyson bought Ann Arbor, Michigan-based Sakti3, which focuses on creating advanced solid-state batteries, for $90 million. The global lithium-ion battery market accounts for $40 billion in annual sales, according to research firm Lux as cited by Forbes. Dyson's company (which is an accurate description since he has 100-percent ownership) currently employs 3,000 engineers worldwide. He intends to hire another 3,000 by 2020. Their average age is 26. Dyson values young engineers, saying, "The enthusiasm and lack of fear is important. Not taking notice of experts and plowing on because you believe in something is important. It's much easier to do when you're young."
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Dyson Will Spend $1.4 Billion, Enlist 3,000 Engineers To Build a Better Battery More

Dyson Will Spend $1.4 Billion, Enlist 3,000 Engineers To Build a Better Battery

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  • Good on him (Score:3, Interesting)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday August 26, 2016 @08:15PM (#52778655) Homepage Journal

    Better battery tech is about the most important thing in energy today, because it will let us make more use of "alternative" energy sources (you know, ones which were in use to do work long before anyone was using electricity, or building ICEs or steam turbines or even steam engines) right now. The only thing that might be even more compelling in the short term would be a safe way to store apparently physics-defying quantities of hydrogen and release small or large amounts of it later as necessary without having to expend a lot of energy to do so, but even that has less applications than a better battery.

    One (okay, I) wonder[s] where battery tech would be today if EVs had remained dominant and not been pushed out by subsidized oil and coal.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by x0ra ( 1249540 )
      There is already an awesome battery tech, holding about 10kWh of energy in a small package that already exist, it's good old gas. The only problem is that it takes 100 millions years to produce.

      • There is already an awesome battery tech, holding about 10kWh of energy in a small package that already exist, it's good old gas. The only problem is that it takes 100 millions years to produce.

        The other problem is that you can't just feed it into an electric motor. You have to either feed it into a fuel cell which is lame for many reasons which I should not need to enumerate here, or you have to feed it into an ICE which is lame for even more reasons which etc etc. Or an external combustion engine, but (stationary generation aside) that only really works for trains and it's not really convenient there, either. Electric motors are wonderful in every way compared to ICEs, and batteries are wonderfu

        • Or an external combustion engine, but (stationary generation aside) that only really works for trains and it's not really convenient there, either.

          Oh ye of little faith!

          http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4scv... [blogspot.com]

          http://i65.photobucket.com/alb... [photobucket.com]

          That beaut is a 1925 Doble steamer, the pinnacle of steam cars. They could be run from cold in 30 seconds (45 seconds on a freezing New York morning), hit 90mph reliably, and were quiet and not smoky. Unmodified Dobles meet current stringent emissions regulations (much easier

          • I've watched the Jay Leno's Garage on his Doble. It was an amazing thing. But the system takes up too much space. Compare the Doble to a Fiesta with a 1 liter Ecoboost engine and there's no contest in any category. Physics limits how small a steam system can be; it could perhaps be more compact than in the Doble, but how much more? If you're going to go that far in your quest for a new-old engine, NASA's proven Stirling engine tech is probably a better example.

  • Forbes: (Warning paywalled) (Score:3)

    by hcs_$reboot ( 1536101 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @08:17PM (#52778663)
    And you know it's paywalled! So why using that article at all?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by starless ( 60879 )

      And you know it's paywalled! So why using that article at all?

      Actually it doesn't seem to be paywalled - or at least there may be a limited number of articles available for free.

      I had been avoiding Forbes because of their adblock-blocking, but I was able
      to read OK (this time).

      • No dice.

        Ad blocker says 8 ads are blocked but Forbes won't let me in. /Oblg. "And nothing of value was lost." I'll get my news elsewhere that doesn't nag me for being protective of my computer running your buggy / malicious code.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wbr1 ( 2538558 )
        I use ublock origin, and normally reloading formbe 2x gets me past the quote page. I have to really want it to read on Forbes though...

      • Actually it doesn't seem to be paywalled - or at least there may be a limited number of articles available for free.

        It seems to be more or less random, or based on cookies that the site handles. Recently I could access easily a few articles from Forbes. This one was "hard-paywalled", meaning have to subscribe to something, and waiting for "3.. 2.. 1" didn't work either. Oh, and I'm using AdBlock+, that could be the reason.

        Anyway anyone should use AdBlock+ or an equivalent, so this article is paywalled.

      • Actually it doesn't seem to be paywalled - or at least there may be a limited number of articles available for free.

        You're right, it's not paywall. Paywall implies I could pay for something. All I get is a quote of the day and then nothing at all. It's probably fighting with my ad blocker but frankly I'm glad the latter is winning.

        Still have no idea what the article says though.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by nmb3000 ( 741169 )

      And you know it's paywalled! So why using that article at all?

      If the main Forbes site gives you trouble (or you just don't want to patronize them), try the Internet Archive [archive.org]. Seems to work okay for me.

  • Wheels (Score:2, Interesting)

    by somenickname ( 1270442 )

    It's also a lot easier to poorly re-invent wheels when you are young. I understand the sentiment that he wants young people willing to take chances but, this isn't some startup company catering to a hipster internet fad. This is an initiative to produce real world, useful products that have a potential to kill people or cause millions of dollars in property damage from fires. It would be ludicrous to focus on getting young engineers for a project like this.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Scutter ( 18425 )

      It would be ludicrous to focus on getting young engineers for a project like this.

      Not to mention that it's an offensively age-ist thing to do.

    • It's also a lot easier to poorly re-invent wheels when you are young.

      Well that fits the profile of his company, which he built on not understanding the physics of a cyclone separator and infamously trial and erroring till he got it to work. Or copying a fanless blade design from a 20 year old Toshiba patent and then trial an errored different patent submissions until the patents office accidentally accepted the idea as original.

      Expect to hear him invent some battery chemistry which we have covered on slashdot before.

  • For their cordless "stick" vacs I'm sure. (Score:3)

    by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @08:30PM (#52778745)

    If you thought Dyson vacuums sucked before, just wait.

  • Guess that is why the products tend to focus on an idea, aesthetics, and a general lack of follow-through.

    Not too sure about the solid-state batteries yet, but they are getting hype...Just not sure Dyson is much of a custodian of the technology.

  • I sure hope for Dyson that was a question on the H1B's final exam or, well, everyone knows what the Russians say.

  • I dunno, better batteries sounds great, but how about just putting decent batteries that are already available in his overpriced vacuum cleaners?

    I mean Jebus, the fscking $300 handheld Dyson I have doesn't even last for 15 minutes. In the mean time my Ryobi tools run for hours on a charge.

    • Re:Crap batteries in Dyson vacuums (Score:4, Interesting)

      by CanadianMacFan ( 1900244 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @09:35PM (#52779033)

      They may be good at coming up with some things but their implementation sucks.

      I bought one of their tower fans for my bedroom. The infrared sensor for the remote is at the bottom of the unit so I had to sit up and reach my arm up in order for the remote to be in line with the sensor. It would also be a problem if any room with furniture in the way. Put the sensor at the top of the fan so it can be easily be seen by the remote.

      The other big thing that bugged me about that fan was that it didn't remember if the oscillation was turned on or not. When you turned on the fan you always had to turn on the oscillation. I had bought the fan for $350 on sale and when you charge that much it should remember the state it was in when the fan was turned off. It remembered the power level. I have a 14 year old $50 fan that remembers if it was turning back and forth but a fan that costs hundreds more than the next expensive one doesn't.

      I wrote the company about it and they said that's how it was designed. Well, they need someone to look at the user design of their products. I told Dyson that that I won't be buying any of their products because the human interface was flawed and I took the fan back to the store.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

        This is what happens when you hire all young people that haven't learned the ropes, points missed, mistakes made. And engineers should have to use the products they designed wherever possible.

        The customer is always right.

  • Illegal Age-ism Admitted in the Press! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sir Holo ( 531007 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @08:48PM (#52778853)

    FTA: “The enthusiasm and lack of fear is important,” Dyson says. “Not taking notice of experts and plowing on because you believe in something is important. It’s much easier to do when you’re young.”

    I work, effectively, in this very area of materials science. I publish in journals like Nature. I have written many patents, and own several myself.

    Oh, but gosh, I am not 25 years old. I am, in Dyson's "We love to fail" world, useless. Expertise, knowledge, actual experience, quick hands in the lab, and so on are of no value to them. I doubt that they'd even look at my CV. At least, in its current form... Hmmn.

    Why don't I apply? I'll omit dates from my degrees, and only include the last 5 years' experience, patents, and publications. At the interview, they'll see that I'm not 25 (I look 35, but am older). They'll ask for transcripts or photocopies of degrees at some point – HR's method of engaging in age discrimination without asking "what year were you born in?". At the in-person interview, they will learn my real age. They will drop me immediately.

    Then, I will sue them for age discrimination. The owner and CEO has already publicly admitted it. I don't want a job at their shitty Edison-esque "try everything" R&D facility, but rather the salary and options that I could have made had they not engaged in their already admitted age discrimination.

    Sound like a good plan?

    • Re:Illegal Age-ism Admitted in the Press! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by SteveAstro ( 209000 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @09:03PM (#52778907)

      DAMN I wish I had karma to give you. I am by far the oldest member of my R+D team, and by far the most innovative and risk averse.

      James Dyson is an asshole. He bleats about wanting more engineers, but he only want the cheap young ones he can pay as little as possible and toss aside. He isn't even a qualified engineer himself. People like Dyson say we need more engineers, but when the UK starting salary for grad engineers is between 26- 30K GBP , they are too cheap. Until we can make a real scarcity of engineers that isn't going to change

    • I reckon Dyson's comment is merely to conceal the real reason: young engineers are cheap.

      There are plenty of them, they are easily manipulated into working long hours.

      They are disposable (and "Not taking notice of experts" means your operation will soon go broke: reinventing every wheel that the experienced guys in the neighbouring companies just take, off the shelf).

      I doubt that if Dyson had shareholders to worry about, he would take this view. But since the company is his own personal play-thing, he's

    • Not taking notice of experts and plowing on because you believe in something is important. It's much easier to do when you're young.

      Let's see how that sounds with some other EEOC categories:

      • It's much easier to do when you're straight.
      • It's much easier to do when you're male.
      • It's much easier to do when you're not disabled.
      • It's much easier to do when you're Buddhist.
      • It's much easier to do when you're from China.

      No, I don't think he would get away with publicly stating any of those as hiring preferences. Ye

  • Batteries, especially solid state, are around the best possible use such a vast sum of money could be used for. I wish him all the best.

  • Observation: it seems there are more places to buy refurbed Dyson vacuum cleaners and fans than there are places to buy them new. To me that suggests that they have terrible manufacturing and/or design quality, or that Dyson's marketing people have decided to charge a high price to the biters who are willing to buy a "new" Dyson vacuum cleaner or fan, and then sell "refurbs" to the unwashed masses who can't or won't buy a "new" unit.

    Whatever is going on, the availability of all those refurbs has left me with an impression of poor quality. No thanks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rfengr ( 910026 )
      I've had one of the vacuums for years, and the only issue was the plastic piece used for storing the wand broke off.. Very happy not having to screw with bags.

      • I actually went backwards. I had a Dyson bagless back in Australia. When I moved overseas and needed to buy something while waiting for my stuff to arrive I went and got a run of the mill bagged vacuum. Not even a good one. I almost forgot how nice it is popping a bag out and putting it in the bin and not having to touch any of the stuff I just vacuumed off the floor.

        I sold the Dyson when it arrived and kept the cheap vacuum. The only complain I do have, the Dyson was nicer to manoeuvre, but not that much n

    • Re:Making 26 YOs work 80 hour weeks is easier too. (Score:4, Informative)

      by gweilo8888 ( 921799 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @11:17PM (#52779347)
      As the owner of a Dyson vacuum, I can confirm that they are one-trick ponies. Yes, the suction is incredible, but the overall design is poor, the materials are shockingly cheap, and in most respects it simply doesn't work as a vacuum cleaner. For example, on hardwood floors even the smallest specks of dirt -- the size of a crumb or smaller -- are simply pushed around the floor, instead of being sucked up by a Dyson. It's no surprise their return rate is high; I'd have returned mine, had I not gotten it free of charge from my credit card company's rewards scheme.

      • I was recently shopping for a vacuum to replace a couple "brand name", upright, bagless machines acquired over the years from Walmart or similar vendors. My two main reasons for replacement were the bagless systems were very dirty- emptying them involved holding it at arm's length over a trash can, taking a deep breath, opening the trap door and dropping the dirt into the trash in a cloud of dust. The other main complaint was the noise. Jeez, those things were awful. I couldn't stand to be in the house

      • I agree they're not much good on a smooth floor, but I use a broom for that. They work very well in that environment. We've had a Dyson for a long time and aside from eating its skinny little belts trivially if you clog it with hair, it's a very good machine for us. And it pulls stuff out of the carpet that other vacs don't, which is its mission...

  • Damn that summary started so bright and happy, saying all sorts of things that got me excited.. and then it just got sad. I guess old people are only good for running countries. Nothing important like trying to invent batteries

  • but it seems pretty bold of Dyson to assume that if he throws enough people at the thing the ideas will come. I would feel better if he was starting with some promising ideas he felt worth exploring.

  • Dyson (Score:3)

    by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @10:32PM (#52779231)

    I'd rather he built of of those spheres

  • While I admire Musk for what he is accomplishing, I would not trust him with my IP. I don't think that he would out and out rip anyone off, but the deal would probably be fantastically lopsided.

    With Dyson, I get the feeling that he doesn't want to rip off any engineering types as they are his people. He probably knows all the stories of where the business type and the engineer with the brilliant idea meet and somehow the engineer still can't afford a good soldering iron, yet the business type just bought

  • Not taking notice of experts and plowing on because you believe in something is important. It's much easier to do when you're young

    Ignorance of experience promoted as a virtue. While there, they could also skip science classes, as it may badly influence their spirits.

  • If it was possible, Elon Musk would have done it already.

  • I bet it sucks.

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