Robot Babies Not Effective Birth Control, Australian Study Finds (sky.com) 323
An anonymous reader writes: Girls given imitation babies to look after in an effort to deter teenage pregnancy could actually be more likely to get pregnant, according to a study. Researchers in Australia found 8% of girls who used the dolls were expecting by the age of 20, compared with 4% of those who did not. The number of girls having at least one abortion was also higher among girls given the dolls: 9% compared to 6%. 'Baby Think It Over' dolls were used in a Virtual Infant Parenting (VIP) programme which began in 57 schools in Western Australia in 2003. During the three-year study, published in The Lancet, 1267 girls aged 13 to 15 used the simulators -- which need to be fed and changed, while 1567 learned the normal health curriculum. The idea originated in the United States and is used in 89 countries. Researchers from the Telethon Kids Institute in Western Australia are now warning that such programmes may be a waste of public money.
Very effective (Score:5, Insightful)
I find robots very effective at birth control. I've not managed to get one pregnant yet.
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Obviously you're not doing it right.
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Obviously you're not doing it right.
Maybe I'm getting my input and output ports mixed up. Electronic Anal, or enal for short.
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Did you pass your high school health class? Perhaps a refresher is required... ;)
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I find robots very effective at birth control. I've not managed to get one pregnant yet.
But those robot babies have to come from somewhere.
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This! a thousand times this!
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To quote C3PO:
"Droids making droids... how perverse!"
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I find robots very effective at birth control. I've not managed to get one pregnant yet.
Is it an iSexRobot? Maybe you're holding it wrong.
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I've not managed to get one pregnant yet.
Try mounting it after you update drivers.
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You clearly don't watch Rick & Morty.
Beyond the joke... (Score:3)
Giving boys robot girlfriends might have worked better :)
Re:Very effective (Score:4, Interesting)
I was thinking the babies are probably very effective for training the kids to become parents, Technically what these programs are doing aren't really scaring the kids but are more in a way training them for parenthood. Just as you train people to become soldiers by shooting at them and simulating combat scenarios - you are simulating parenting scenarios.
Now what would be an interesting side affect to this study would be if the parents what went through this "experience" are doing any better with their babies than the ones who didn't. I have the thought that those that did are probably better first moms because of it.
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Tab A vs. Slot B (Score:3)
Robot Babies Not Effective Birth Control, Australian Study Finds
Depends on where you install them.
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Did they also get the Anniversary Update? May explain a few problems...
Birth control (Score:2)
No, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be nice if the conservatives started admitting that birth control is effective birth control.
Re:No, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
That will never happen: for too many of them, birth control is merely an excuse for their real motive: control of the bodies of young people. The real goal is not to prevent birth, but to prevent sex taking place.
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That will never happen: for too many of them, birth control is merely an excuse for their real motive: control of the bodies of young people. The real goal is not to prevent birth, but to prevent sex taking place.
Actually it is about control over morality. The Religious Conservatives view sex outside marriage as Sin and unwanted pregnancies as a (Gods) punishing consequence for immorality. The also see the sacrifices required to raise that child as the path to Salvation and God's good graces. They very much fear that sexual immorality leads not only to the degradation of society, but to the physical destruction of the U.S at the hands of GOD ala "Sodom and Gomorrah."
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Or rather, that abstinence and scaring kids into avoiding sex is ineffective and actually counter-productive, because kids like to rebel and test dangerous things out for themselves.
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except that isn't exactly true either, people under 30 today are more likely to have remained chaste than pretty much any point in modern history.
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birth control is effective birth control.
Bah! Computers are effective birth control.
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The bottom line is that the "conservatives" advocating abstinence training are actually right. The only actual way to reduce teen pregnancy is to encourage them to stop fucking so much.
That's like saying the most effective way to stop the tide coming in is to stand on the beach and tell the tide not to come in. I mean it works perfectly when it works.
But much like the tide won't stop when you tell it to, there is nothing you can say to teenagers to stop them fucking.
Back to your stats, condoms are pretty ef
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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I had to get a signoff from my wife at age 29 for a vasectomy. I was told they wouldn't do it if i were single or if I had been married with no children.
This has always bothered me especially with the whole "It's my body you can't decided for me" line of thinking that is trotted out in the abortion debate. If a girl can be the sole decider about an abortion then why can't a guy be the sole decider about a vasectomy. For IUDs I don't know if there is some medical reason for a 16 year old couldn't get them especially considering that they are temporary but for thing like getting your tubes tied or getting a vasectomy done I would say as long as you are 18 and
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Wow that stat is bad. American guys/girls really need to learn to use a condom.
And the effective solution, is just to use a condom, and the pill together. If used correct this combination should land you below 1%/year unwanted pregnancy.
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Actual effectiveness ratios for birth control:
US CDC document on actual effectiveness [cdc.gov]
Highlights:
Condoms are about as effective as the withdrawal method, sponges, or the rhythm method. 20% or so failure rates. [snip]
... when used inconsistently you should add. With perfect use you get (Trussell J, Contraceptive failure in the United States. [nih.gov]) way better numbers:
Our estimate of the proportion of women becoming pregnant during a year of perfect use of the male condom is [...] 2%.
Which means with a proper education you can lower the rate of unwanted pregnancies significantly.
Re:No, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm as liberal as they come. I like GMO crops, eat them and hope they continue to improve, though I don't like Monsanto too much as a company. Couldn't care less about Sanger, but it's hardly a surprise that someone from her era was racist and believed in eugenics -- almost everybody was racist and eugenics were extremely popular in that era. But who cares, outside of historical curiosity?
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Anti-GMO liberals are our version of the "climate change is a hoax!" people on the right. In both cases, they utterly ignore science to push their narrative. And in both cases, they are wrong.
This just in... (Score:2)
This just in from Australia: Robots do not prevent sex.
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No... you still need a real child to prevent sex.
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I have seen teen parents have a child... then just when I think they will not do that again... they get pregnant again.
Seems that some things just cant't be stopped in all cases.
That being said, I'm sure it helps; I have twins. Do I want a third child... ehhhh, maybe after some further therapy I'll consider it. :)
Insufficiently Realistic (Score:5, Insightful)
Until the dolls literally spray genuine, authentic baby shit and vomit on you in the middle of the night, they are going to be inadequate to the task of dissuading girls from wanting to make babies.
If you can't actually fill them with a truly realistic substitute for unwanted infant fluids, they're worthless.
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Agreed!
Once it becomes necessary to baby proof your home to keep the robo-babies safe, and there are dire consequesbces if the "baby" is harmed... then perhaps we will see some positive benefits from this.
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My real kids ALREADY do this! ;)
They invade every area of my house
They steal my phone
They try to hijack the TV
They encrypt my hard drive and loose the key
(OK, I made that one up)
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Those are the things the repel boys, not girls. Do recall that girls bleed every month, a bit of baby poo and vomit isn't going to ding the notion that a baby is a neat idea.
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You know, its pretty funny how many macho men become squeamish little sniveling babies when something inconsequential -- like piss -- gets anywhere near them. Now, whether they are *really* snot-nosed immature squeamish little shits or just lazy ass shits with a "I'm gonna be sick if I have to do work" excuse... I'm really not sure which is better.
And WTF is wrong with you that you think the menstrual cycle somehow predisposes women to be fit for unpleasant work. It sounds more like a misogynist, whiny excu
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Until the dolls literally spray genuine, authentic baby shit and vomit on you in the middle of the night, they are going to be inadequate to the task of dissuading girls from wanting to make babies.
If you can't actually fill them with a truly realistic substitute for unwanted infant fluids, they're worthless.
I don't think that has anything to do with it.
I've raised four kids (youngest is now 15, oldest is 23), and the bad parts of having children, and babies, really have nothing to do with the icky body fluids. I've changed more than a few "blowout" diapers, and even had a couple of kids puke into my mouth and that's really not the bad/difficult part of having and raising children. The bad/difficult part is the commitment required. Kids require very close to 24/7 effort for years, and a lower level of focus a
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I have twins that just turned two. I have seen everything you described play out in my wife and I's lives.
- Diapers are not so bad, until it's 2 am and I have work the next day.
- Puke washes away and becomes a funny story.
- The bank account does not stay as full, as the diapers, wipes, and endless accessories are installed.
- The real kicker is the realization that something as simple as going to the store to get milk and eggs (when alone) is a HUGE ordeal, especially at 40 below zero.
- Being a good parent r
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If you can't actually fill them with a truly realistic substitute for unwanted infant fluids, they're worthless.
They're worse than worthless, they're giving a false idea that having a baby is easier than it seems.
By not fully simulating all the aspects of having a baby - from cleaning dirty diapers, to the financial aspects of dealing with the baby, to the changes in your social life - they're giving a false impression of what having a baby is really like. Instead, they made it seem like a game that only required them to press a button every few hours when the "baby" wails. They made having a baby similar to performi
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Trillions of women in history have eagerly cared for babies who produced real excrement and it did not dissuade them. I'm pretty sure this campaign is a struggle against a seriously deep instinct, here.
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Trillions? Really? Try again.
This would only work sociopathic women (Score:2)
Female brains are hardwired to care for a baby in need. All these robotic babies do is trigger those responses quicker. It's basic biology.
Yes, some women will decide babies aren't for them.. some out of practicality, but most out of an inability to process those biological imperatives nature has embedded into mammalian female brains.
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Yes, I have seen this response in my wife when she sees a newborn. A very scary, however short lived feeling for dad...
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You know what would have been cheaper? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to mention more efficient?
Handing out condoms and showing how to use them.
Friend's teenage daughter did this.. (Score:3)
other aspects (Score:2)
Nothing posted about Socio-Economic Factors (Score:2)
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Give them a real one for a week. (Score:2)
Speaking as a father of two, nothing prepares new parents for what happens when one of these little creatures stops being a robot and starts being real:
- Sleep deprivation
- Loss of anything resembling free time unless a kid activity is involved
- Loss of money -- they're expensive at every age and stage, just in different ways
- Loss of sanity -- $deity help the teen parent who happens to get a perpetually fussy kid
Of course, there are huge upsides to it (it's the best thing I ever did, bar none...) but I'd t
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Something as simple as getting a full night of uninterrupted sleep is akin to winning the power ball after becoming a parent!
Sanity is measured by how much remains at bed time, not by how much one looses.
Money? What money? We operate a "feed the cherubs fund!"
Yes, it is worth it. I don't know why I say that some days, but it is!
(At least) Two mistakes made: (Score:3, Insightful)
2) Expecting humans of any age to be rational about one of the most powerful hardwired instincts: reproduction.
Girls that are going to give in to their hormone-driven instincts are going to do so no matter what you do, unless you physically or medically restrain them somehow. Giving girls in that category babydolls like they did just 'trains' them to take care of the infants they'll eventually have too soon anyway, it doesn't deter them; more likely it just softens the impact of the reality of having a child to take care of.
Why is teen pregnancy bad exactly? (Score:2)
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Re:Why is teen pregnancy bad exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)
'Cause in modern society children are much, much, much, much better off if they are born to parents that have built up some emotional, personal and financial stability.
When we were evolving, that was not the case - your stability mostly came from living within a small tribe that helped you when you needed it. Far more critical back then was for the mother to be healthy enough and fast-healing enough to handle a pregnancy.
Now we have modern medicine to take care of the "need to be healthy" part, but we no longer have the tribe to help take care of you and your new family. So now the outcome is better if the parents are older.
Good luck changing human nature (Score:2)
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that humans, particularly young human females, have an innate desire, probably driven by hormones, to reproduce, and no amount of scolding, cajoling, lecturing or whatever is going to override that.
Skip the Robots (Score:2)
There are plenty of unwanted babies already.
Pass those around and have the high schoolers take care of them. You'd only need to run the program for a week at each school.
In related news... (Score:2)
Reminded of a class in my high school (Score:2)
Total bunk conclusion! (Score:2)
This doesn't prove anything. The research is missing the point...it's not to prevent pregnancy per se...
The program is to encourage birth control use, which is different than percentage who are pregnant at age 20.
Also, number of abortions is not a proper measure either!
One can argue more OR less abortions prove this program is successful...it depends on how you view abortions
...There's a problem here? (Score:3)
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I am no sure I understand your comment - since there would be not much point in "trying" a proven experiment...
Re:social experiments (Score:4, Insightful)
Schools should stick to Reading, Writing and Math, and drop the stupid social experiments that usually cause more problems than they solve.
If we do that, where else can we attain such valuable data that benefits society?
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An educated society that can read, write and do math correctly, is a benefit. All the other social experiements have proven to be ineffectual at best, and at worst has added to our existing problems.
I mean, whose values do you want to indoctrinate our kids with, yours? Mine? The Radical Muslim? The WBC? The Militant Atheist who wants to kill everyone that believes in a deity?
Re:social experiments (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a centrist. I believe in birth control and sex ed for all children.
However, before today's results, I would have thought the robot baby IN ADDITION to sex ed and teaching about birth control was a good idea. I've not read the nitty-gritty of Australia's tests. (Are the robot baby girls getting less Sex Ed teaching) so I won't rule out Robot Babies as a viable option- it certainly shouldn't replace learning.
I'd be interested in knowing WHY the robot babies failed. Do the girls consider the experience "not that bad". Do they think "I've done it with a robot, I can handle my own child". Or is it simply that they didn't receive as good sex ed teaching as the control group?
Re:social experiments (Score:5, Interesting)
I have seen the "baby effect" in action. When a women shows other women a new baby, it can cause the other women to have a stronger desire to have that experience (of holding a newborn) again. I don't see this leading to a sudden number of new pregnancies in said social group, but it does seem to heighten maternal instincts.
Just like smelling food may increase one's hunger, perhaps stimuli that elicits a similar instinct in women also has the effect of increasing desire to have a real child.
Just a speculation that crossed my mind.
Also I bet dolls didn't wake up 4 times per night (Score:2)
What you said is certainly true. Also, I would bet the dolls don't wake the girls up every two hours and apply a clamp to the their nipples for 30 minutes. I would bet that while changing the doll, the girls didn't get a squirt of diarrhea to the face.
By misrepresenting the difficulties, you encourage them to have babies rather than discouraging them.
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Yep, best thing for the species is for those individuals willing and able to recognize long term problems to voluntarily remove themselves from the gene pool... /sarcasm
Re:Teenagers are idiots. (Score:5, Insightful)
anything else that qualifies them to be parents
Not strictly true. They have young healthy fertile bodies.
Historically that's counted for far more than wisdom, common sense or other skills.
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In the 19th Century, a group of women who were anti-alcohol bc their husbands spend their paychecks at the bar instead of bringing it straight home first invented organized sports as something else to do. They were so successful at it they went on to found the Women's Christian Temperance Union to ban alcohol in bars and everywhere else completely. This passed into our constitution, of course, but had to be repealed later, as it did not increase the relief from boredom.
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This. As well as "give them to the boys too."
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Boys will be boys, especially when society all but encourages them to skip town once the deed is done. In some situations, the consequences are far less significant for males - for starters, they are not the ones pregnant, dealing with morning sickness, and possibly giving birth.
Re:social experiments (Score:5, Interesting)
The consequences for males is less, because society starts off by saying boys have nothing to say in the matter of birth control and abortion. When you start the conversation by excluding the other parent as irrelevant, you should at least understand that part of that is how you frame other aspects of the same event.
This isn't a commentary on Abortion at all, but rather the framing of "my body my right" logic that then gets changed after 9 months.
For instance, Family court is one area where Men are at a complete disadvantage. Not that anyone cares.
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I agree it's a terrible excuse. Some males do the right thing after they get a female pregnant, and they should be applauded. Does our "look out for number 1" society applaud this?
No.
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Enjoy living in your cave.
Re:social experiments (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds plausible doesn't it? Show the young lady exactly what it is like to have a child, but without them having one. That should scare them into not wanting children, right?
However, when I read about this I thought "Aren't they risking priming and further activating all of the reproductive programming that women (and men) are subject to at that age?" I mean really, haven't we noticed yet that reproduction is a dirty trick that our biology plays on us? The drive to procreate is definitely not rational, in light of population pressure, economic well being, and lost opportunities swallowed up in the time it takes to raise young. But in spite of this it persists at a rate that is greater than necessary to sustain the species. What does that tell you? It tells me that reproductive motivations have root access to the wetware OS and are using that access to control the system subtly and pervasively.
Personally, I am surprised it isn't more effective at driving up pregnancy rates than it is.
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What does that tell you? It tells me that reproductive motivations have root access to the wetware OS and are using that access to control the system subtly and pervasively.
Change the root password. :)
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Change the root password. :)
That's what psychedelics and disassociatives are for.
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I think that would be more like running /etc/password through a shredder and expecting to still logon without issue.
free(ish) choice (Score:2)
I'll lightly disagree with the drive to procreate not being rational, if only because one can take the perspective of the individual, and one can take the perspective of the species - from a species point of view, procreation is definitely rational.
That all being said, I think part of the larger picture is that, whether driven primarily by biology, one can argue being a mother is a free(ish) choice. We "rational" folks pooh-pooh it as something we should scare people out of, but what if, making different a
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Perhaps because human females are hardwired genetically to like babies?
Actually, this whole notion is from a very old science fiction story. Main characters had to deal with robot baby before they could get a license to have a real one. Very funny story.
But, as it turns out, completely unnecessary, since higher standard of living seems to reduce reproduction rate nicely in the Real World (tm).
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But, as it turns out, completely unnecessary, since higher standard of living seems to reduce reproduction rate nicely in the Real World (tm).
In less "developed" nations, large families are an economic necessity where families need children to support the household (example in farming). Having many children is seen as a sign of favor from God among other groups. Also, a lack of birth control no doubt plays a large role.
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I wonder if they may have been granted leniency or other special perks and rewards while having a robot. That may have given them a positive reward for having a baby that could make them inclined towards having children.
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It's simpler than that. These are dolls. Girls who play with baby dolls have always been more likely to want a baby. Then they add a game aspect (having to feed and change) to make it even more fun. Of course they don't worry about having a baby so much after that when you've taught them it'll just be a fun game.
If you want to make them consider the consequences, take them to an alley to talk to a homeless teenage single mother crackhead about her regrets.
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Without those things a school curriculum would be pretty useless today. About the only thing you'd be qualified for would be pumping gas or management.
So just like today's high schools then but without all the bullshit classes.
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Straight off a Google search result quoting a CNN article:
To raise a child born in 2013 to the age of 18, it will cost a middle-income couple just over $245,000, according to newly released estimates from the U.S. Department of Agriculture."
Yeah, that's a big of money!
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Re: social experiments (Score:2)
Also, AC et al, STFU with this identify-portion-of-political-spectrum BS and talk about pros and cons of specific policies.
Re: social experiments (Score:3, Insightful)
That's unfair, the underage pregnancy problem apparently existed already whereas the some-company-doesn't-have-lots-of-public-sector-cash has likely been fixed.
Potentially, various other corollary issues involving politicians lacking holiday homes have been at least partially remedied.
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How about educating them in tools to avoid pregnancy?
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Yes, definatley. But no harm in taking multiple angles!
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True. If nothing else, these dolls at least give them enough convincing arguments to get rid of the parasite should the condom fail.
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What lack of sleep? All you need is a glue gun to plug the holes that could leak and put it into the basement so you don't hear its sound module.
If someone complains, tell them to call CPS and take that little pest with them.
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