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SolarCity Plans To Release New 'Solar Roof' Product Next Year (computerworld.com) 160

Posted by BeauHD from the innovation-is-key dept.
An anonymous reader writes: SolarCity, the American provider of energy services recently purchased by Tesla Motors for $2.6 billion, is planning to produce a new "solar roof" product next year. Computerworld reports: "Five million roofs are replaced each year in the U.S., so instead of simply swapping out old shingles with new ones, why not turn the whole roof into a solar power generator that's integrated with your home's electrical utility? That is SolarCity's plan for a new product it expects to begin producing next year, according to statements made during the company's second-quarter earnings call last week. During the call, SolarCity Chief Technology Officer Peter Rive alluded to a new product that would be produced at the soon to open Buffalo, N.Y., solar panel manufacturing facility. Then SolarCity co-founder and Chairman Elon Musk interjected and said the product would be a solar roof, 'as opposed to a [solar] module on a roof.' The solar roof also has the advantage that it doesn't 'cannibalize' any existing SolarCity product, such as solar panels installed atop roofs, Musk said." "If your roof is nearing end of life, you definitely don't want to put solar panels on it because you're going to have to replace the roof," Musk said. "So there's a huge market segment that's kind of inaccessible to SolarCity. So, why not have a solar roof that's better in many other ways as well," he continued. "We don't want to turn over all our cards right now, but I think people are going to be really excited about what they'll see."
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SolarCity Plans To Release New 'Solar Roof' Product Next Year More

SolarCity Plans To Release New 'Solar Roof' Product Next Year

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  • It would be all about ease of assembly.

    • Well, there are other factors to take into account...

      * zoning laws
      * HOA covenants/rules (if they exist for the given house)
      * local infrastructure capacity (in the case of rural coops or PUDs, shingling every roof in the county with panels may well overload the local grid)
      * engineering of the roofing itself (can it withstand annual/frequent hailstorms, etc?)
      * to some extent any laws governing homes on runway approaches (if the roof produces glare that bugs pilots, etc)

      I'm sure there's a lot more to take into

      • I live in Texas, and it is kind of shocking that here, of all places they passed a law preventing municipalities and HOAs from making laws or rules against installing rooftop solar. So basically that takes care of 10% of the landmass of the lower 48 states as far as your first 2 concerns.

  • How durable? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jason Levine ( 196982 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:10AM (#52731959) Homepage

    Here in upstate NY, winters often mean that I need to get out our roof rake to pull snow off our roof. If I don't, ice dams form and then runoff from melting snow gets under our roof shingles and can get into our house. My questions for SolarCity would be: Would these solar shingles hold up to having a roof rake scraped across them? (It would be useless if I had to replace shingles every year due to roof raking damage.) Also, how would they handle snow melt getting under the shingles? Presumably, there will be wiring there. Would moisture under the shingles cause issues?

    • Re:How durable? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Ogive17 ( 691899 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:20AM (#52732007)
      I think the intention is the replace the shingles and have your roof made out of solar panels.

      I've had this same idea for a long time. There's no benefit of asphalt shingles other than the relatively low cost. If you could replace your roof with a solar panel system that #1 protected your home and #2 provided a significant amount of power generation I wonder what the total cost of ownership would be. At current electricity rates, I'll pay about $20,000 over the next 20 years to the electric company. I would also pay $15,000-$20,000 every 20-30 years to get new shingles.

      • Re:How durable? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:45AM (#52732159)

        I think the intention is the replace the shingles and have your roof made out of solar panels. I've had this same idea for a long time. There's no benefit of asphalt shingles other than the relatively low cost.

        I hate those damn things. We have a low pitched roof and shingles don't last long on them. So it's like every 10 years and new ones. As well, if they aren't laid right, heaven help you. Some asshat replaced them before we bought the place, and had a small place, about an inch square where they didn't cover. Right on a gutter We got a lot of wood rot right there. That was fun to fix.

        I wanted to go metal last time we replaced them, but my better half thought metal "looked cheap" However now that we are looking at our third replacement, and she's changed her mind. But these solarpanels? Very interesting indeed.

        If you could replace your roof with a solar panel system that #1 protected your home and #2 provided a significant amount of power generation I wonder what the total cost of ownership would be. At current electricity rates, I'll pay about $20,000 over the next 20 years to the electric company. I would also pay $15,000-$20,000 every 20-30 years to get new shingles.

        Make certain to do your own calculations, and not rely on people who have a vested interest in you using some other method. I bought a new super high efficiency gas furnace, replacing my oil furnace, 4 years ago - it's already paid for itself. Oil people said it might be 15 years.Same with insulation. I'm spending per year what some friends pay per month in energy.

        As well, there are the incalculables. Access to the electricity. We have a lot of power outages in my area. And with the whacked weather, we are sometimes out for a while - one time almost a week. Your own power source can make life a lot nicer. It was nice to have lights and furnace that week. Note I wasn't using solar that week, just another power source.

        • As well, there are the incalculables. Access to the electricity. We have a lot of power outages in my area. And with the whacked weather, we are sometimes out for a while - one time almost a week. Your own power source can make life a lot nicer. It was nice to have lights and furnace that week. Note I wasn't using solar that week, just another power source.

          Most, if not all grid-tied solar systems require that the grid is actually working. So if you get a power outage, your solar panels won't help you.

          I h

          • That is how my house is wired, but it's all off grid. You can add a transfer switch if you want to be grid connected, but it's all or nothing. The solar/generator half does not feed back into the grid.

            • You can add a transfer switch if you want to be grid connected, but it's all or nothing.

              I think that if you connect your solar system to the grid, you need permits. These permits require that your system will not operate without grid power. I expect the inverter settings control whether grid power is required or not.

          • As well, there are the incalculables. Access to the electricity. We have a lot of power outages in my area. And with the whacked weather, we are sometimes out for a while - one time almost a week. Your own power source can make life a lot nicer. It was nice to have lights and furnace that week. Note I wasn't using solar that week, just another power source.

            Most, if not all grid-tied solar systems require that the grid is actually working. So if you get a power outage, your solar panels won't help you.

            I have wondered if you could get the solar inverter to start producing electricity by disconnecting from the grid and connecting a generator (or even a large UPS) to the house wiring.

            I have no intention of tying to the grid by the time I'm finished.

            Seems odd however tht the device is designed to fail at the time it is needed most. What exactly fails that stops the power? I have a shutoff system for my emergency generator.

            • Seems odd however tht the device is designed to fail at the time it is needed most.

              Firstly, you have a misconception: residential grid-tied systems are not intended to be backup systems. When it is most needed is in the afternoon, on a hot, sunny day, so that it can offset the electricity used by my, or my neighbours' AC systems.

              What exactly fails that stops the power? I have a shutoff system for my emergency generator.

              Nothing fails. The inverter is configured to shut off the system in the absence of g

              • Firstly, you have a misconception: residential grid-tied systems are not intended to be backup systems. When it is most needed is in the afternoon, on a hot, sunny day, so that it can offset the electricity used by my, or my neighbours' AC systems.

                When I am finished, my system will be completely disconnected form the grid. Part of why I'm putting one in is that the grid isn't terribly reliable around here any more.

                So why on earth would I put in a system that cuts me off as soon as grid power fails?

                Nothing fails.

                Exactly. That was my point in asking the dumb question. But we have enough outages around here that it would be silly to install anything that goes away with it. And I'm not doing this for money, I'm doing it for reliability. Now when we have an outage,

            • I can address the "What exactly fails that stops the power" portion, at least indirectly. It stops because it's designed that way as a safety feature. If the power is out there is probably a line down somewhere. That line will require someone to fix it. If you are feeding power in you will potentially electrocute the person trying to fix the line.

            • The reason for turning off the solar energy generation is that they don't want power pushed up into the grid when the grid is down. That can cause further damage and, even worse, injure or kill the line workers trying to fix the outage.

              Now, a better system does exist where it will stop pushing to the grid when the grid is down and just provide power locally. However, that has other problems since you now need to have something to handle power imbalance - you don't want to brown-out or over-voltage the s

        • Re:How durable? (Score:5, Informative)

          by Slyfox696 ( 2432554 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @11:22AM (#52732841)

          I wanted to go metal last time we replaced them, but my better half thought metal "looked cheap" However now that we are looking at our third replacement, and she's changed her mind.

          Off-topic but my father-in-law is a fireman. He's said many times that the best way to ensure total destruction of your home and property in a fire is to have a metal roof.

          I'm not an expert, but basically the metal traps all the heat and forces it downward and most firefighters (at least in my area) won't go into a building with a metal roof on it except only to save human life. And, even then, the chances of saving someone are lower.

          Just something to think about.

          • Re:How durable? (Score:5, Interesting)

            by LunaticTippy ( 872397 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @03:44PM (#52734937)
            Fascinating. In dry western wooded mountain areas people are installing metal roofs because it is one of the most resistant to catching on fire during one of the wildfires. A friend was told by the fire department to install a metal roof!

            I suppose it could work both ways. A fire that starts inside your house will have no chance to get out (letting water and firemen in) but a fire that starts outside won't be able to get in easily.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jjn1056 ( 85209 )

            How about clay tile roofs? That's what I have, and it looks nice but I couldn't figure if it was going to help in a fire or not.

        • What kind of Shingles do you use in the US that you have to replace them so often?

          Replacing roofs in Germany is a rather rare activity. I doubt it happens more often than every 50 years.

          • What kind of Shingles do you use in the US that you have to replace them so often?

            Replacing roofs in Germany is a rather rare activity. I doubt it happens more often than every 50 years.

            We have different grades of shingles. The tradional/typical style for houses built say in the last 60 years is a fiberglass mat impregnated with tar, with tiny rocks of some desired color impressed into them. I think it is right up there in suckage with drywall. What kills mine is the low pitch on my roof. Debris lands and stays on it. Doing a little bit of damage each time, it's hammered by the sun during the hottest parts of the day. With that low pitch I have to get up and blow leaves and all the other

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by xlsior ( 524145 )
            In Northern Europe, shingles are typically rigid clay or ceramic, and last pretty much forever. In much of the US, a standard shingle is a few mm thick flexible tar-coated mat, which degrades and starts cracking over time (especially in areas with big temperature fluctuations). Typical advertised lifespan is 20-30 years, but can be less depending on the weather in your area. The US shingles are cheaper, but will cost you a lot more In the long run.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by gerf ( 532474 )
            Storms here are more violent, with wind gusts hitting 80mph/130kph, and that rips shingles off. We don't get as much snow, but we do get ice storms that leave a layer of ice more than 1inch/25mm thick. Trees break under the weight and fall onto houses. We use asphalt rather than tile, which inherently lasts a shorter period of time. Think 20 to 30 years. Some old houses had slate-rock, and last as long as your tile, but can also break. Some roofs are literally wood shingle, and those are just disgustin

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by amiga3D ( 567632 )

          I've never heard of quality well installed asphalt shingles not lasting at least 15 years. My Dad's last install lasted almost 25 and I know the last house I had shingled was in 1995 and although I sold it 6 years ago I just drove by it a month ago and it still has the same shingles on it. I've seen shingles fail through bad installation practices. The set I installed in 95 I sat and watched the men installing it and when they pulled the old roof they started to drive the roofing tacks into the wood. I

      • My power bill average around $170/month but I've gone electric on my appliances and added a electric heater in the garage but even before that I averaged around $130/month which would make 20,0000 in about 13 years

        As for the roof... I live in the mid-west it's cheaper but i think your estimate is still of I'd need to have 6,000- 8,000 sq ft roof to pay that for just a shingle job.

    • Re:How durable? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:21AM (#52732011)
      They have an inversion mode where rather than generate electricity from sunlight, the voltage is reversed and they consume electricity and produce heat. This melts any snow and ice present. Right now this is a manual switchover by the homeowner, but I would expect an optical sensor in the future that detects when the light is being obscured by snow and acts accordingly.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      There are no shingles. The panels are the "shingles."

      Ice dams are usually the result of an insufficiently insulated roof or attic. [home-partners.com] An installation of a solar roof should include proper insulation and venting. Since solar city's business model is leaseback, which makes them responsible for system maintenace, they would be foolish if they didn't remediate any insulation problems at the time of installation.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 )

      Here in upstate NY, winters often mean that I need to get out our roof rake to pull snow off our roof. If I don't, ice dams form and then runoff from melting snow gets under our roof shingles and can get into our house. My questions for SolarCity would be: Would these solar shingles hold up to having a roof rake scraped across them? (It would be useless if I had to replace shingles every year due to roof raking damage.) Also, how would they handle snow melt getting under the shingles? Presumably, there will be wiring there. Would moisture under the shingles cause issues?

      And there you have it. Immediately upon any new like this, some slashdotter comes on and tries to derail the idea with their personal situation.

      My guess is that if you have feet of snow on your roof, these are not for you.

      • And there you have it. Immediately upon any new like this, some slashdotter comes on and tries to derail the idea with their personal situation.

        Right, how dare people evaluate, and ask questions about a product based on their personal situation.

      • It sounded to me like he was interested, but wasn't sure it would work for him. Since more than half the country deals with snow on our roofs either every year, or at least several times over the expected life of a solar panel, it is something that a lot of us are or should be wondering about.

        We won't really know for sure until we see what they are making, and possibly until we gain a few years worth of experience on a few thousand homes in the upper midwest or New England.

        Personally, I suspect, but don't

      • And there you have it. Immediately upon any new like this, some slashdotter comes on and tries to derail the idea with their personal situation.

        And there you have it - some asshole getting bent out of shape because a perfectly reasonable question was asked about something that millions of Americans deal with annually.

        • And there you have it. Immediately upon any new like this, some slashdotter comes on and tries to derail the idea with their personal situation.

          And there you have it - some asshole getting bent out of shape because a perfectly reasonable question was asked about something that millions of Americans deal with annually.

          Yes, I am an asshole, but at least I know myself - You probably think you're pretty awesome.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rch7 ( 4086979 )

      I doubt rooftop solar make any sense as far North as NY. Other than some subsidy/electric utility rate gaming system.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by MachineShedFred ( 621896 )

        Except that SolarCity installs plenty of systems in New York, and is building their manufacturing facility in Buffalo.

      • There is lots of solar being installed in the UK, which is further north.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Teun ( 17872 )
        The City of Ontario (Yeah I know, not the USofA) is about level with Genoa in Italy (+44deg), Southern Ontario is about level with Rome.
        In Europe solar works out fine way up north, I live in a rather rainy = cloudy place at +52deg. and the investment it pays back in around 7 years.
        That's better than the bank who pays 0.5%.BR> But remember in Europe we have high taxes on energy, something we don't pay on our own generation.

    • Re:How durable? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Nunya666 ( 4446709 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:36AM (#52732105)

      Here in upstate NY, winters often mean that I need to get out our roof rake to pull snow off our roof. If I don't, ice dams form and then runoff from melting snow gets under our roof shingles and can get into our house. My questions for SolarCity would be: Would these solar shingles hold up to having a roof rake scraped across them? (It would be useless if I had to replace shingles every year due to roof raking damage.) Also, how would they handle snow melt getting under the shingles? Presumably, there will be wiring there. Would moisture under the shingles cause issues?

      Roofs are designed to prevent ice dams. If you are getting them, then your roof (or attic) needs help. Most likely, you don't have enough insulation in your attic. Ice dams happen because the underside of the snow on the roof is warm enough to melt the snow. That warmth comes from the attic. The attic should be cold enough that the roof material stays cold, and the snow on the roof doesn't melt on the underside.

      I used to get ice dams on a home in Michigan. It already had insulation between the joists, but that wasn't enough. Adding a second layer of insulation, perpendicular to the joists, resolved the ice dam issue.

      • Our roof runs for about half a foot past the house. So the roof above the house is warm and melts the snow (see my explanation in the next paragraph) and the edge of the roof is cold and freezes it back to ice.

        We have an upstairs room that was converted (from a previous owner) from attic space. We think that they insulated the former attic area poorly but redoing it would be highly expensive and time consuming. As is often the case (especially when your home is as old as the one we own), there are other mor

        • As an interim fix, I'd suggest you install some roof de-icing cables. Yes, it will use a fair bit of electrical power, but in my opinion, being able to handle ice dams automatically are easily worth the expenditure. Raking the roof does accelerate the wear and tear on the roof after all, because of the way it knocks the embedded gravel off traditional asphalt shingles. Plus, dealing with ice dams manually requires that you be home to do it.
    • Since most photovoltaic cells have a glass or polycarbonate top layer, I would think that you wouldn't have to rake snow any more. Depending on the slope of your roof of course. Like people with metal or slate roofs, especially steep ones, you'd be more worried about installing snow guards to keep the snow up there, and not avalanching on top of people. (I once saw a homeless man get clobbered by a mass of ice and snow that fell off the steep slate roof of the church he was standing beside. The unfortunate

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by c ( 8461 )

      Here in upstate NY, winters often mean that I need to get out our roof rake to pull snow off our roof.

      I have a feeling that the solar roof would perform more like a metal panel roof than a shingle roof. Anything else would be stupid, really, since snow accumulation would interfere with power generation.

      Generally speaking, accumulation doesn't happen much on a smooth roof. The biggest problem is large quantities of snow sliding off, to the point where metal roofs typically include snow stoppers above areas l

    • Re:How durable? (Score:5, Informative)

      by nycsubway ( 79012 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @10:07AM (#52732341) Homepage

      Maybe you could rake it with a wide broom or plastic snow rake. Our neighbor has solar panels on his roof and most of the time the snow slides off after the first sun starts to hit it. Unless its overcast for a few days after a snow, it always seemed to melt off quickly. He did use a broom a few times with new snow, but the sun and melting seem to go hand in hand anyway. And there's no need to clear the snow if there's no sun for the solar cells to use.

      So, maybe in the case of a 2ft snowfall you could clear it, but that glass does a good job clearing itself anyway.

    • How do you deal with snow on and around your existing solar panels?
      Not every climate will be suitable for this type of product, just as some locations are a poor place for an outdoor swimming pool, aluminum awning, etc.. Some products have adaptations, like heaters for TV dishes, but I don't think I'd want to heat my roof...

      • How do you deal with snow on and around your existing solar panels?

        Well, there's always a $12 broom...

        • Given that he's talking about ice dams forming and currently doing roof damage with a rake, I don't think a broom will cut it in upstate New York. I have used brooms to clear snow from TV satellite dishes, but not in that type of climate. I'm thinking you would need an A-frame type roof for a solid solar roof at that latitude...

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by MTEK ( 2826397 )

      The people behind this technology (and autopilot), given where they work, probably can't fathom why anyone would live in your climate. Your snow issues are an edge case. SORRY! ;)

    • If you had a solar roof, electricity would be essentially free and you could simply have an elecrtric heater within the panels that would melt off all of the ice at no cost!

    • The solar panel surface is usually glass. Snow doesn't stick to glass, even in freezing temperatures if the weight exceeds a certain amount it will break free and slide off. With a glass roof I doubt you would ever need the roof rake.

    • These are not shingles. Imagine the 4x8 sheet of plywood being replaced with an integrated unit. No tar paper. No shingles.

  • I've sort-of-being looking into this myself. (Score:3)

    by queazocotal ( 915608 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:12AM (#52731971)

    As DIY. Solar panels are not wholly ridiculous any more as roofing material - at least for smaller roofs.
    For example, I have a 5*20m roof.
    Wholly replacing the skin of this with solar panels would cost around $6K. This is a large number - but not hugely much in context of the whole roof replacement. Optimising for cost per area, rather than cost per watt, and finding some nice way to fix with integral insulation, for example could greatly speed assembly of the roof.

  • These types of roofs have been around since 2009 or 10. Dow, corning, gaf and now a bunch of chinese imports. Dow is getting out of the market. They never caught on, but I am sure musk and his marketing machine will make all the difference.

    • Re:Not new (Score:4, Insightful)

      by kaiser423 ( 828989 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:48AM (#52732179)
      They very well might. Never underestimate the power of timing combined with marketing. It's what made the iPhone and countless other products.

      I looked at the Dow and other systems, and they were quite expensive and not really wanting to talk to individual home owners, and when they did it was ridiculously obtuse and no installers would touch the things. They were 5 years too early and didn't have enough juice to make it happen, both likely inside of the company to essentially go all in, nor with public mind-share and installer credibility.

      Cells are much cheaper now, home solar is much more of a known commodity, and you have a company with nation-wide installation presence fronting the install and handling all of that, and a man with free-press touting this. It definitely could have legs. If Musk does one thing well, it's identify things that are good ideas and feasible, but everyone is timid about, and then just take that idea and go balls-to-the-wall all out bet everything on it. Thus, he becomes a driving force, and every success adds to his confidence and ability to take massive bets and the cycle continues.

      • When a company as big as Dow does something like this and totally skips the implementation phase, I usually suspect either patent protection, PR stunt or regulator appeasement. Not that incompetence is unheard of.

        • I work for a big company and incompetence is de rigeur. If you saw how bad nearly everyone is at their job it would make you cry.

  • I'd really like to start seeing houses built with solar instead of just a tack-on after the fact.

  • Self-driving shingles (Score:4, Funny)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:21AM (#52732013) Journal

    This will be the Uber of solar roofs. It's a game changer.

  • Solar bubble? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:23AM (#52732025)

    I wonder how much of this solar build-out is due to an economic bubble in the industry. We've been looking into solar since we have a new roof, and the impression we've gotten both from SolarCity and a parade of local contractors is that they're all lining up before the (very lucrative) tax credits go away. Neither methods (leasing or paying for the system outright) seems like a particularly good deal. If you go the SolarCity route, they take your tax credit _and_ charge you monthly for your panels. If you go the local guy route, you pay (in my mind) hugely inflated prices, and they're trying to cover that up by saying "look at how much of a tax credit you're getting!" since it's a percentage of the price of the system.

    I'm guessing all these local solar companies are going to be gone as soon as the tax credits dry up...there's no way they can continue selling systems for the prices they're charging. My impression is that these local solar companies are run by the typical hustler type who always has their eye on the next big money making opportunity, and will be on to the next one as soon as the business is inconvenient. It's too bad, because I'd definitely go for it if they would charge reasonable rates and not try to dupe idiotic homeowners who can't see past the tax credit carrot. In my mind, SolarCity is even more of a flat-out scam; they're the ones offering "no money out of pocket!" conversions, conveniently forgetting to mention that you're locked into a leasing contract with them. It's the perfect setup for them - the same mentality that goes into car leasing. Can't afford an S-class Mercedes? No problem, $999 a month, look, it's cheaper than a loan! Such a deal! Sign today!!

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      > No problem, $999 a month, look, it's cheaper than a loan! Such a deal! Sign today!!

      You are misinformed. The solar-city model is not about wasting money on a depreciating asset like a car. It is about replacing your electricity bill with a cheaper lease bill. You aren't throwing away money via a shell game, you are saving money in a straight-forward way. And, unlike a car lease, at the end you own the panels and they will continue to generate electricity with no bills for a long time afterwards.

      • Are you sure? I don't think you own the panels at the end of a lease, but I've been wrong about SolarCity before.

    • It's complex.
      Anti-dumping rules have made solar panels in the US amongst the most expensive in the world.
      However.
      http://www.wholesalesolar.com/... [wholesalesolar.com] - as one example has panels down at $.89/W.

      If you're in an area that needs large amounts of AC in primarily sunny periods, a replacement well insulated roof could do really nice things for your bills by removing the daytime component of your bills entirely, even without requiring any subsidy.

      • http://sunelec.com/solar-panel... [sunelec.com] is advertising grade A panels solar at $0.41/watt in pallet quantities (12kw).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rch7 ( 4086979 )

          Panel cost may be smaller part of the whole system cost. There is mounting hardware, inverters, labor, engineering and so on. Cheaper per W panel doesn't necessary mean cheaper per W system as you may need more hardware, labor, optimizers/miniinverters with less powerful panels.

          • Well, panel cost used to be the vast majority of the cost by about 100 times. Currently inverters are about $0.50/watt and mounting is ~$0.10/watt. Inverter prices can fall by a substantial amount. My $2k inverter has about $400 of components in it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rch7 ( 4086979 )

        If you have large AC needs, first thing you need to do is to do duct leak pressure test and seal it completely.
        Second, but only after the first is done, is to add lots and lots insulation to on ductwork and to attic.
        Then you may replace windows to energy efficient ones if you windows are not adequate.
        Then you can think about upgrading your AC or heat pump, but only after the above is done.
        If you live in humid climate like Florida, proper AC sizing is critical, as only AC working most of the time can remove

    • Yup. And with the current tax credit setup (in my state at least), if you're replacing your roof you can essentially roll a large part of that cost into the solar tax credit $$$, so people line up like crazy to do it....I haven't looked into the exact words in the law, but tons of people do it and essentially get solar on their roofs for almost nothing.
    • It does seem to be the case that any business with 'EZ-franchise' opportunities or heavy use of consumer credit gets pretty slimy; but it's hard to dismiss it as wholly analogous to a 'bubble' when panel prices have continued to fall and people continue to be pretty interested in using electricity.

      The vendors might well be chasing a bubble, I suspect that, in the end, it will turn out that selling "own your own business opportunities" will prove more lucrative than owning one of those "opportunities"; but

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ledow ( 319597 )

      This is what some people have been saying for over a decade.

      I've worked in many schools and lots of them get snakeoil salesmen for everything from solar power to "power conditioners" (that "save money on running your flourescent lights!") and all sorts. The ones who have been approached for solar panels on roofs (and they have a LOT of roof space) have either refused it, or regretted it later.

      One school I know has panels that barely pull in enough to run one of their on-site servers. They have it "because

      • It is easy and relatively cheap, but you have to live in the right area. I assume since you use GBP you are in or near England. Bad idea. Someplace like the American southwest will have 2-3x more insolation making it 2-3x less expensive. I get 6 hours of good sunlight per day, 350 days a year and 12hours in the summer when it is needed the most (running the AC, by far the largest user of electricity in my house). 2.5kw of solar panels easily powers my house year round, it's invisible, nearly maintenance fre

    • Re:Solar bubble? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:59AM (#52732267) Homepage Journal

      It's an investment. Like putting better insulation in, or a more efficient heating/aircon system, or paying more for a diesel engine because it's cheaper to run (er...)

      Depending on where you live it takes more or less time to start paying off, but in northern Europe and similar climates you should be looking at 5 years to pay for the system and then it's all profit. It's a very safe investment too, guaranteed pay back and as energy prices rise it will almost certainly keep getting better.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jjn1056 ( 85209 )

        No matter what I do, even if I DIY I end up with like 10 years payoff. If it was 5 years I;d do it tomorrow!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by MetricT ( 128876 )

        Plus, I haven't read about the US government spending a few trillion dollars to invade a foreign country to secure their supply of sunlight. I'd rather waste some money on solar than a fark-ton on oil.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kobaz ( 107760 )

      Totally Agree.

      Solar sounded interesting when I saw a dealer at a local trade show and signed up for a free quote. I have the whole home-office shebang and use 1500kwh monthly, so I would need a sizable system. SolarCity quoted me a no money down something like $275 a month to cover 1200kwh, and I would be paying the grid for the remainder. Including paying the $50-75 additional to the grid, I was looking at a net savings of -$55/monthly off my current bill! What a DEAL! I would love to sign a contract

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kobaz ( 107760 )

        So, let's run some calculations

        Assume you're breaking even with your utility costs versus solar

        Start with $1000, a reasonable first investment, or a reasonable minimum up front cost for solar
        Put $275/month into a 1% Money Market, or into solar

        This is pretty simplistic and compares a basic lease-only solar.

        Lets do a really rough guesstimate and some basic math assuming that electric will be an average of 25% more expensive in 10 years. Let's assume that electric costs bumped by 25% the day after your system

      • Solar price have come way down. My neighbors told me they paid $30/watt back in the 80's. You can now buy solar for $0.40/watt. The falling price in the material and equipment has been offset by the people who make money selling and installing systems. Something like $3/watt.
      • The numbers I got from the solar people assumed the commercial electrical rate went UP every year forever. It saved money past year 10 because commercial power went up every year. It could go DOWN just as easily. BTW - I used to sell and install wind and solar systems. They are 100% amazing on boats or off in the woods or other places out of reach of 10 cent/KW power.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rch7 ( 4086979 )

        I don't know your location, but $40,000 for ## kW system that generates 18,000 kWh/year sounds waaaay too much. Either you are in North, or need to look for better contractors, or wait until installation cost in your location will come to more sensible, just like it did in Australia. I don't know if netmetering and per kWh only residential rates (aka "free backup" from grid) will survive until then though.

    • It's not in your mind. All of the solar businesses that I've seen, granted only four, charge a ridiculous amount of money for doing a couple hours of trivial work. One wanted nearly $5k for doing work that took me 4 hours + $300 to get a certified electrician to sign off.

  • Dang it! (Score:3)

    by tsstahl ( 812393 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:23AM (#52732027)

    Bass turd had to wait. I just replaced my roof, half of which faces due south.

    Seriously, it would be a great option if the price were comparable to, or within 30% of a regular asphalt shingle new roof.

  • Wake me when they're available in my city. zzzzZZZZ

  • Tesla has made an offer to purchase - the purchase has not been completed yet, and SolarCity is in a competitive offer phase where they can take other offers.

  • I'm all for this product. We need to replace our roof anyway. If the cost of the solar panel roofing is comparable to the cost of an asphalt roof, then its great. The only extra cost would probably be the battery and connections to the electric panel. hopefully those wouldn't be too high and would be offset by some sort of tax break.

  • my neighbour has a solar roof. He also has a dozen pigeons living under it. welcome to biohazards 101.

  • I'm interested in this. The main reason I haven't looked at installing solar panels (other than the fact that it is cloudy 9 months out of the year where I live) is that my roof is about 5 years from needing to be replaced.

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