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Microsoft Targets The iMac With New All-In-One Surface PCs, Reports Say (networkworld.com) 140

Posted by BeauHD from the all-in-one dept.
New submitter Miche67 writes: Two reports say Microsoft is working on an all-in-one (AIO) PC under the Surface brand. If that's true, it would put it in competition with HP and Dell, which have their own AIO lines, as well as put it in competition with Apple's iMac. Network World reports: "Both DigiTimes and Windows Central picked up on the story, each citing their own sources. DigiTimes, a Taiwan-based publication with connections to the PC industry over there (but also a very mixed record of accuracy) said the new devices would come in the third quarter of this year. Windows Central, which is a little better when it comes to rumors, said it did not have a solid release date." Business Insider was able to find a patent filing by Microsoft for a desktop PC that supports the rumored AIO design. "The device is evidently targeting a 'modern and elegant' design and is meant to be something akin to a premium appliance or furniture," Windows Central wrote. Intel's release date of the new Kaby Lake line of processors around Q3 of this year complicates things. While Kaby Lake is said to be more mobile-friendly with less power consumption and heat, they would make for a good choice for an AIO machine. However, it would be pushing it for Microsoft to release its AIO machines in the same quarter that Kaby Lake is due. On a semi-related note, a programmer at Building 88 recently confirmed that Microsoft will release Surface 5 devices next year powered by Kaby Lake processors. He posted pictures of four device holders marked "2017" on his Twitter account.
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Microsoft Targets The iMac With New All-In-One Surface PCs, Reports Say More

Microsoft Targets The iMac With New All-In-One Surface PCs, Reports Say

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  • Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mpapet ( 761907 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @07:24PM (#52459595) Homepage

    Things must be desperate inside Microsoft. They are attacking their own customers. (Dell, Asus, etc.)

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Partners in crime, you mean?

      Illegal monopoly is still illegal, last I checked. But hey. Who needs law and order when you can bathe in the blood of your customers at the government's resounding applause?

      How is it not obvious that Microsoft would screw over anyone and everyone? Is everyone insane stupid?

      • Nope. Microsoft is not a monopoly, not anymore at least. They were when I.E. was breaking standards and forcing web sites to its proprietary rendering engine. They only have a relatively large market share in email servers, consumer desktop OSs, and office software, none of which is large enough to bar entrants and competitors.

        No. What MS doing now is seeing Apple's success and vying for those markets, unsuccessfully. Their problem is that hey are just bad at it.

        1. Apple created System 1, and Microsoft

        • Back in the early years of the Mac, Microsoft Word and Excel were two of the main reasons to own a Mac. Macwrite? Don't kid around like that.

        • Name a Win32/64 supporting drop in replacement for Windows. Name a drop in replacement for Office that supports VBA, plugins and templates.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by NotAPK ( 4529127 )

            I loaded up a big nasty Excel 2007 spreadsheet in Libreoffice and was pleasantly surprised to find everything working.

            I'm sure there are some bits missing, but it's closer to 99% than to 50% feature-complete.

            • I loaded up a big nasty Excel 2007 spreadsheet in Libreoffice and was pleasantly surprised to find everything working.

              I'm sure there are some bits missing, but it's closer to 99% than to 50% feature-complete.

              You almost have to work at it to mess up the transfer from excel. And I haven't got a complaint yet from people I send excel format spreadsheets I've done in AO.

            • I loaded up a very simple resume in Libre Office and it screwed up the formatting. It's almost as if there's more than one user of a particular software. I'm not defending Microsoft, far from it, but this idea that you can easily move to the competition is delusional.

          • Name a Win32/64 supporting drop in replacement for Windows. Name a drop in replacement for Office that supports VBA, plugins and templates.

            Huh? You folks and your "name a Microsoft product" , and sit back like you just made checkmate in 2 moves.

            It's a zero sum game, as I can name products I use on my OSX machines that are not available on Windows. I don't act like that makes it better or worse. In fact I have one application that is Windows only, so I have a windows machine to use it on.

            Meanwhile, consider agitating to make every nut and bolt 1/2 inch - or 13mm because monoculture is best... right?

            • Windows and Office are entrenched in the corporate world. In order for another OS to succeed it either has to be so good that it's worth spending a fortune migrating to arrive at exactly the same place you were at before or it has to be able to do all the things that Windows and Office can do.

          • Name a drop in replacement for Office that supports VBA, plugins and templates.

            If you want a drop-in replacement of COBOL with all the features of COBOL, I'm pretty sure you already know where to find COBOL. :-p

        • 'twixt 2 and 3: Apple Newton, Microsoft PocketPC.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by bondsbw ( 888959 )

          5. Apple iPad, Microsoft surface (RT at first).

          Insert: Microsoft Surface Pro, copied by Apple iPad Pro.

          (Well that's what Tim Cook wants you to believe, that they are in the same category... despite the fact that there's nothing "Pro" about any iPad.)

          6. MacBook, surface book.

          Those are not in the same category (even if I assume you meant "Macbook Pro"). Surface Book has a touch screen and can separate into an x86 tablet.

          7. Now the iMac.

          It is neither a success nor a failure so it doesn't belong in your list.

          • It is neither a success nor a failure so it doesn't belong in your list.

            The iMac not a success? Bahahahahahaha. That's like saying the PlayStation was neither a success or failure. Now particular models of the iMac may not sell as well as others but it sells well and it is well recognized.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by bondsbw ( 888959 )

              You misunderstood, I wasn't talking about the iMac. I was talking about the Surface AIO which was being compared to the iMac.

              Obviously since the AIO is only a rumor and hasn't been released, it can't be deemed either a success or a failure, so it's illogical to add it into a list of successful products with failed copies.

              (Not that the AIO is a copy anyway. We don't know much about it. A touch screen and other features may put it in a different category, and depending on those features it might compete mo

        • Also, Microsoft was shipping a smartphone back in 2000, seven years before Apple entered the market.

          And the Macbook - without a detached keyboard, active stylus or touchscreen - is not comparable to a Surface Book. It's actually Apple who is copying Microsoft with the iPad Pro.

          • Did you actually see Microsofts smart phone? Not terrible impressive given than they basically wedged their existing Windows UI into a smaller form factor and called in Windows CE (WinCE!).

            Not like it matters. Microsoft had a go at it, failed miserably, and then Apple revisited it many years later (jf you want to call it that) with a new take and was met with huge success. You could pretty much say the same thing for Windows XP Tablet Edition. Sure, Microsoft made a pen based UI for XP and convinced people

            • I had one, actually. Work phone.

              The interface was definitely clunky, but it had originally was developed for small PCs rather than handhelds. On the other hand, it had apps, multi-tasking, and cut-and-paste, all features missing from the "not terrible impressive" iPhone OS 1 release back in 2009.

              But regardless of the relative merits of the platforms, it is fatuous to suggest that Microsoft followed Apple into the smartphone market.

              • could we say that microsoft followed apple, on account of Apples forays with the Newton, then?

                face it, microsoft stuck its toe in the water and failed. Doubtful they would have returned in earnest if not for Apple and (later) Android. Or else they would have in their "me too" way, and we'd all be walking around with spare stylus' in our pockets...

                • Sort of. Newton was position as more of a PDA than a palmtop or pocket computer (and therefore followed in the footsteps of the Psion and GRiDPaD). But then the accusation is that Microsoft chases success, not failure.

                  But the idea that Apple inspired Microsoft to enter the smartphone business is still fundamentally silly. Microsoft had both feet in the water long before Apple even took off it's socks. And when Apple finally did make the plunge, Microsoft was well established and was growing their share

    • Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again (Score:4, Insightful)

      by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @07:49PM (#52459743)

      Things must be desperate inside Microsoft. They are attacking their own customers. (Dell, Asus, etc.)

      They've already been doing that for a few years, now - ever since the first Surface portable was announced.

      I suppose the good news for their partners is - Microsoft doesn't seem to be doing a particularly good job of competing with them. I'm a Mac guy; but, if I were in the market for a Windows portable, it'd probably be something more like the Lenovo Yoga line. I've used a few different Surfaces, and even the pricey keyboard cover absolutely blows chunks. Of course Lenovo has a few little issues of its own...

      • But I mean, at least Lenovo can figure out that laptops need ventilation holes.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Even before the Surface, they had the Zune which was billed as an iPod alternative, but ended up attacking Microsoft PlaysForSure partners

      • I've yet to find a keyboard that was 2mm thin and folded back on itself that didn't blow chunks.

        Oh wait you were comparing a tiny thin tablet to a laptop. Enjoy your mixed fruit salad.

    • Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ShaunC ( 203807 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @07:58PM (#52459801)

      The obvious and overdone product placements for the Surface are very off-putting as well. A couple of times during the NASCAR race this weekend, they'd cut to a trackside reporter who'd start out their segment saying "Looking here on my Microsoft Surface, I can see..." [some statistic they could easily have viewed on any device]. I've seen sideline reporters do the same thing during NBC coverage of NFL games, except amusingly the NFL hosts kept referring to them as iPads.

      When your product has so little brand awareness and/or consumer goodwill that you purchase blatant product placements like this, I personally find that to be a sign of an undesirable product. Product placement, as opposed to just buying a normal TV commercial, reeks of being sneaky and underhanded. Then again that describes Microsoft's image in general these days; "sneaky and underhanded" probably ought to be the official motto of Windows 10.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by narcc ( 412956 )

        Product placement, as opposed to just buying a normal TV commercial, reeks of being sneaky and underhanded.

        Apple relies heavily on product placement as a key part of their marketing efforts. They have for ages. If I were you, I'd find another talking point.

        • Product placement, as opposed to just buying a normal TV commercial, reeks of being sneaky and underhanded.

          Apple relies heavily on product placement as a key part of their marketing efforts. They have for ages. If I were you, I'd find another talking point.

          Just seeing an Apple is one thing, but I've yet to see a placement where the user says "Look here what I found on my MacBook Pro with it's great Retina display."

          If I were you, I might find a different argument, whic was made by the OP when he notes the person talking specifically about the Surface.

        • Apple relies heavily on product placement as a key part of their marketing efforts. They have for ages. If I were you, I'd find another talking point.

          I don't think you know what product placement means. It is not advertising in general. Apple does place ads everywhere for its products. That is not product placement. The question is does Apple pay for their products to be mentioned or shown? For example if you watch any NFL game, at least once a game, the commentators have to show a player use a Surface tablet and mentioned it is made by Microsoft. That's because MS paid $300M for the NFL to use and product place. I've never once seen someone using an iPa

        • At least Apple can do Product Placement right.

          Look what happened when Microsoft tried to do the same:

          http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... [theregister.co.uk]

          http://macdailynews.com/2016/0... [macdailynews.com]

      • The obvious and overdone product placements for the Surface are very off-putting as well. A couple of times during the NASCAR race this weekend, they'd cut to a trackside reporter who'd start out their segment saying "Looking here on my Microsoft Surface, I can see..." [some statistic they could easily have viewed on any device].

        What's really sad is that if they just took the word "Microsoft" out of there, instead of "ha ha Microsoft lol what lames" it would be for at least a handful of people "What's a surface?"

        Hands of ham.

    • What customers? Asus and Dell are the ones that forced Microsoft to give Windows away for free to OEMs by threatening to go open source. (MS didn't believe they'd do it, until they did, and sold a shit-ton of netbooks).

      Thanks to those ass-douches, Windows is now SaaS, and you can expect a Google-esque level of never-finished-beta quality.

      Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution.

    • Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Gumbercules!! ( 1158841 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @10:04PM (#52460411)
      No, Microsoft are not screwed. Microsoft's partners are screwed.

      If Microsoft starts pushing out equipment that people want and emulates Apple - then there's no need for Dell. Anyway, who is Dell going to get an OS from? Apple? Dell has to keep selling Windows because its consumers need it (enterprise and business). Linux is not an option.

      It's not just hardware partners Microsoft is screwing over - channel partners are in deep shit, too. All those millions of little IT shops days are numbered, too. Office 365, Azure integrated AD, etc. All spells a lot of trouble for people who have spent the last 10 years selling SBS boxes and PCs to small businesses.

      • All the Microsoft computers so far have been premium products. The OEMs can still make money selling to the lower end of the market.

      • No, Microsoft are not screwed. Microsoft's partners are screwed.

        Microsoft's partners aren't screwed any more than AMD's or nVidia's. Both make reference video cards. They're not the best or the cheapest, and they give the design away to their partners so they can improve upon it instead of having to invent it from scratch. Microsoft is also bearing the burden of creating a market into which their partners may one day be able to sell product.

        Dell has to keep selling Windows because its consumers need it (enterprise and business). Linux is not an option.

        While your first sentence is correct, your second sentence is only correct sometimes. Corporate linux adoption continues, albeit sl

        • I'm not assuming Windows Store will be the only official way to buy Windows Software - I am assuming Office365 will be the only way to buy Office. And it will be the only way to get Exchange email (Hybridised at the very minimum). I'm not talking about desktops here - I am talking about Microsoft deliberately killing small IT shops who peddle SBS style solutions (and one may argue they should be killed - but that's a different story). As Azure and Office365 and OneDrive are more and more baked into Windows

          • I'm not talking about desktops here - I am talking about Microsoft deliberately killing small IT shops who peddle SBS style solutions (and one may argue they should be killed - but that's a different story).

            I strongly doubt that Microsoft will take away those guys' means of selling their product for them. They will probably give them some way to interject themselves into the purchase process.

            So instead of selling a customer say a $6,000 server, Office licenses, SBS licenses, etc. the small IT company will instead have to make do with $0.50 a user, per month, for Office365 tailings... and thus many will go out of business.

            Or they can shift to selling people their own non-Microsoft based servers, for those who want to retain control.

            • Microsoft is already doing this. Shops can set up as resellers of Office365 - we have done this - and I kid you not - we make a grand total of $0.09 per month off each user we sign up. Nine fucking cents. So guess how much effort we put into it? I can promise you, everyone in the channel, from the large resellers, to channel partners, to the small shops fully understands that the end is coming for being able to sell OEM Office, Windows, Exchange, etc. SBS is already dead - it no longer exists and can no lon

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by gtall ( 79522 )

            If MS goes down that long hard road, the federal government will find a way not to use MS software. Already they are preventing use of Acrobat DC (Dick Cloud...or something). Turns out information really doesn't want to be free and keeping it on Adobe's servers violates a lot of security and privacy rules.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by DogDude ( 805747 )
        No. Microsoft is selling the Surface and this proposed product as a super premium offering. People obviously don't want Apple, otherwise they'd be buying Apple. To get work done, people will continue to buy Dells and HP's, and whoever else sells regular computers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bazorg ( 911295 )

      It's fair these companies see a new Surface AIO and an Xbox running Windows 10 applications as an attack, but it's equally fair for Microsoft to see this move as a vertical integration strategy that was blocked in the 90s but is commonplace in this decade. Google has Nexus, Android & cloud-based services; Apple has their own stack from device to software and cloud services... why should Microsoft miss out?
      Not only there's profit to be made, as there's OEMs making Windows worse with bloatware and there's

    • They have had too, dell, Asus and the rest of the OEM's were producing shit for a long time. Hence the surface line to try and inspire them to compete at the top rather than a race for who can produce the crapiest cheapest machine while ceding the top end to apple. I expect this is going to be a similar situation. They normally price their own lines at a premium so it leaves plenty of room for the OEM's anyway.

    • Someone has to innovate or offer quality products when the entrenched suppliers are mass-producing the same boring crap they produced last year.

      Apple introduced the Newton a few years before PDAs took off.

      Microsoft demoed a smartphone two years before that market took off.

      Intel developed the ultrabook concept because laptop OEMs were complacent.

      Microsoft made the Surface because the laptop OEMs were being cheap and producing crap for convertibles.

      While I will continue to build my own PCs for the foreseeable

  • Fight an entrenched lifestyle brand with a half baked turd that runs Windows and costs about the same. That's going to fly like a lead balloon.

  • Does it run macOS? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @07:29PM (#52459627)

    If not, it doesn't compete wit the iMac.

    • I'm sure it could run Linux Mint, good enough. I have a mac at work and my wife has one too. They're ok but my god has the UI become too complicated over the years diverging from the initial simplicity. Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys

      • Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys

        True. But they are the same keys they've always been, right back to the very original Mac. Mac users just know what they are, it's part of their DNA.

        Incidentally, taking a screenshot to a file (which is put on the desktop) is easier and a lot more typical.

        • Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys

          True. But they are the same keys they've always been, right back to the very original Mac. Mac users just know what they are, it's part of their DNA.

          Incidentally, taking a screenshot to a file (which is put on the desktop) is easier and a lot more typical.

          I just use macOS' Grab Utility. I have been using Macs since they were called Lisas, and I think I have used the keyboard-shortcut for "Save a Screenshot to Clipboard" about 2 or 3 times in my life.

          The OP needs to find a better meme.

      • I'm sure it could run Linux Mint, good enough. I have a mac at work and my wife has one too. They're ok but my god has the UI become too complicated over the years diverging from the initial simplicity. Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys

        What? How long have you been using a Mac? Command-Shift-Control-4 captures the window and copies it to the clipboard. That's the same key combination it always was. Linux has the worst UI regardless of which desktop environment you use. I run several versions of Linux, as well as Windows 10 and Haiku on my iMac (OpenStep too). I've been using Macs since the early 90s. The interface isn't all that much different, but you can do a lot more now. But try running System 7.5 for an hour. You'll realize you can'

        • Huh, most people on a PC just press the "Print Screeen" key.

          • Huh, most people on a PC just press the "Print Screeen" key.

            Cool.

            Now type me an accented "e", like é. In Windows, you have to memorize some frickin' ALT+nnn Code (which can ONLY be entered on a NUMERIC KEYPAD, and which is COMPLETELY different for each accented character!), but on my MacBook Pro, I just have to type Option + e + e.

            Now, which do you think people (especially those living in "accented-letters"-lands) do more often?

            And don't get me started on that ridiculous "Invert the Shift Key if in Caps-Lock" bit with Windows. That just needs to die...

            • Order a macbook pro from Quebec or Mexico with a sensible keyboard?

              On my Spanish keyboard I just type the accent key followed by the vowel I wish to type, for acutes, graves, circumflexes and umlauts. Anything else is just Alt-GR.

              And when I am forced to use a US keyboard, switching layouts is trivial. c.f. how keyboards in internet cafes are switched to QWERTZ because of those blond-haired blue-eyed Aryan women.

        • WRONG! that captures the screen, then you hit space to get window shot

          what a bunch of bullshit

          I've been using mac since 1992

          interface is getting absurd

      • I do have Linux Mint on my iMac, as a virtual machine image. I fire it up occasionally to see how the Lunux world is faring. Every time, it slips a little farther behind macOS.

  • Microsoft is never going to get ahead (Score:5, Interesting)

    by surfdaddy ( 930829 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @07:31PM (#52459643)

    ...by continuing their Apple and other company envy. They need to do some ground-breaking things that are unique for themselves AND are wildly successful in the market. Not be a clueless follower:

    Mac OS, so then Microsoft creates Windows

    iPod, so then Microsoft creates Zune

    Google search, so then Microsoft creates Bing

    Google does ads, so then Microsoft has to do ads

    Apple app store, so then Microsoft creates an app store

    Apple stores, so then Microsoft has to have stores

    Apple provides free OS updates, so then Microsoft has to provide a free OS update

    Apple high-end hardware, so then Microsoft has to have high-end hardware

    Apple all in one PCs, so then Microsoft has to make all-in-one PCs

    • Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead (Score:5, Funny)

      by Proudrooster ( 580120 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @07:46PM (#52459723) Homepage

      They have done a few ground breaking things.

      1. XBOX Kinect [wikipedia.org]
      2. The BING search engine featuring pretty background images. [bing.com]
      3. The Developers, Developers, Developers song by Steve Balmer, ex CEO. [youtube.com]
      4. Visual Studio, Visual Basic, and .NET
      5. And who could forget Clippy [youtube.com] and Microsoft Bob? [youtube.com]
      6. The Ribbon Interface. [youtube.com]

      and let's not forget about Microsoft Movie Maker. [microsoft.com] but they still didn't include it in Windows 10. :(

      So while it is a mixed bag, they are trying and experimenting. Oh and don't forget they own MINECRAFT now!

      • 1 - Kinect was kind of a failure, Microsoft never saw it through to fruition and significant value. It flamed and died.

        2 - Background images are nice and I guess a 10-20% market share is ok. But that has to include the Yahoo partnership.

        3 - Nonsensical

        4 - OK, that's decent at least

        5 - Those were jokes

        6 - The ribbon interface is at least potentially decent. I find it annoying that in a world where our aspect ratio has become landscape rather than portrait, the ribbon takes away further from the vertical real

      • XBox Kinect

        They didn't invent that. They BOUGHT it. Only reason Apple doesn't have it instead of MS, was that the original company that invented what became Kinect liked MS' buyout deal better than Apple's.

    • Your list is true but of course, MS does more than PCs and PC hardware. If Apple were so awesome we'd all be using them at work but those of us old enough know that Apple failed at the business market in the 80's and 90's and is still not a competitor for enterprise. They still don't have a competing email server or office productivity suite or DB or enterprise domain management or robust user access controls or server OS or print servers, file servers, collaboration environment, web server, development l

      • . They still don't have a competing email server or office productivity suite or DB or enterprise domain management or robust user access controls or server OS or print servers, file servers, collaboration environment, web server, development language, etc.

        And that is because Apple considers itself a hardware company; not a software publisher.

        But I would argue about your "Development Language" assertion. Apple has a fine IDE (which, unlike VS, is FREE), that supports several "Development Languages".

      • You have a few inaccuracies there. Last I checked, every Mac was capable of running the server extensions (no need to buy a special server-only version - there's 1 OS that does it all). And they all come with file server/web server functionality baked in (SSH/SFTP is baked in; Apache runs a huge percentage of the web, and every Mac has Apache preinstalled - along with a perfectly serviceable development environment, no additional installations needed unless you want to run non-stock versions of the most com

    • Microsoft's motto should be, "Wait For Us, We're The Leader!"

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DogDude ( 805747 )
      You do realize that they're the most profitable longest running computer-related company in the history of the world, right? I think it's fair to say that they don't need to worry about "getting ahead".

      • But in the consumer space, Apple gathers the major bulk of the profits. Most of Microsoft's profits are from enterprise offerings.

  • Good lord these things are ugly. (Score:3)

    by jpellino ( 202698 ) on Thursday July 07, 2016 @01:39AM (#52461163)
    I mean sheet 4 of the drawings takes the cake, and all of them pretty much look like they got creative with a spare parts bin from several other appliance companies. Frankly I was shocked NOT to see a 1950s pull-lever ice cube tray as part of one of the designs.

  • " DigiTimes, a Taiwan-based publication with connections to the PC industry over there (but also a very mixed record of accuracy) said the new devices would come in the third quarter of this year."

    Digitimes mainly reports on the incredibly extensive second and third party research of display technology industry from Chinese (Taipei) language technical journals, and has been one of the best tech sector news journals I've relied on over 20 years. Sure, sometimes predictions and schedules reported to Digiti

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