'New Way of Stealing Cars': Hacking Them With A Laptop (marketwatch.com) 159
retroworks writes: The Wall Street Journal (Warning: source may be paywalled), CBS and Marketwatch all lead the morning with stories about the newest method of stealing (late model) cars. No need for hacking off the ignition switch and touching the wires to create a spark (controversial during broadcasts in 1970s television crime criticized for "teaching people to steal cars"). Thieves now use the laptop to access the automobile's computer system, and voila. "Police and car insurers say thieves are using laptop computers to hack into late-model cars' electronic ignitions to steal the vehicles, raising alarms about the auto industry's greater use of computer controls. The discovery follows a recent incident in Houston in which a pair of car thieves were caught on camera using a laptop to start a 2010 Jeep Wrangler and steal it from the owner's driveway. Police say the same method may have been used in the theft of four other late-model Wranglers and Cherokees in the city. None of the vehicles have been recovered." The article concludes with the example filmed of a break-in in Houston. The thief, says the NICB's Mr. Morris, likely used the laptop to manipulate the car's computer to recognize a signal sent from an electronic key the thief then used to turn on the ignition. The computer reads the signal and allows the key to turn. "We have no idea how many cars have been broken into using this method," Mr. Morris said. "We think it is minuscule in the overall car thefts but it does show these hackers will do anything to stay one step ahead." No details on modifying the program to run on Android or iPhone -- there's not yet "an app for that."
Making it easy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Mr. Morris said. "We think it is minuscule in the overall car thefts but it does show these hackers will do anything to stay one step ahead."
Well Mr. Morris... it's not like the auto industry is even making a serious attempt at vehicle security to begin with. It really is not hard to stay "one step ahead"... in fact the industry is really just refusing to step ahead themselves. A toddler will get farther down the road as long as they refuse to move.
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Well Mr. Morris... it's not like the auto industry is even making a serious attempt at vehicle security to begin with. It really is not hard to stay "one step ahead"... in fact the industry is really just refusing to step ahead themselves. A toddler will get farther down the road as long as they refuse to move.
If you know anything about the automotive manufacturing you know how much precision goes into making cars safe and reliable. You could even argue that the processes used to manage engineering, purchasing and manufacturing are as tough as the ones used by the plane manufacturers. The difference being that the quality / safety standards are obviously different but the precision in parts management is just as good as highly engineered planes.
At the moment only a hand full of vehicles have shown weaknesses in r
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The main difference is the car makers put the effort in to make sure none of the parts are too good and last too long. Precision scheduled wear out.
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The main difference is the car makers put the effort in to make sure none of the parts are too good and last too long. Precision scheduled wear out.
You're basically using your perception of the situation instead of looking at the facts. Unfortunately for your argument, the numbers speak otherwise. The reliability and safety of vehicles has increased significantly since the beginning of the automotive industry. The data comes from one of the more reputable sources of data of this kind: Consumer Reports. Here's the last 10 years.
http://www.consumerreports.org... [consumerreports.org]
In case you didn't notice here are some major maintenance price reductions brought to you by t
Physical access (Score:3, Informative)
You can see in the video that the thief triggers the vehicle alarm, and then proceeds to work on it as the alarm is going off. That means that even old-school hot wiring would have worked. Once the thief has access to the car and plenty of time, there's nothing to prevent him from taking the car.
Re:Physical access (Score:5, Informative)
The "old school" of hotwiring where you simply connect the right wires in the cab and spark away does not work on any modern vehicle, no matter how much time you have. In fact, hot wiring at all pretty much doesn't work on those vehicles. The reason is that modern engines don't really work unless they have a computer giving them all kinds of information about fuel flow, air mixtures, valve timing, etc. They just need an ECU working in order for them to work. Getting the ECU to work involves convincing it that there actually is an ignition key present, which is not just a matter of connecting some wires. Hence the need for a more complex hack here (note, that doesn't mean the hack was actually complex, just more complex than connecting some wires). You do actually need to convince the ECU firmware that a key is present.
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Old school hot wiring wouldn't get around a computer-enforced starter or ignition inhibitor. That's the bit that's supposed to be super ultra secure on newer cars.
There's a challenge/response between the ECM in the car and the fob or a chip in the metal key itself. Without successfully completing that authentication, even the real metal key won't start keyed cars, and the Start button does nothing in keyless cars. You can't hot wire your way around that.
The laptop tricks the ECM in skipping the challenge
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Old school hot wiring wouldn't get around a computer-enforced starter or ignition inhibitor. That's the bit that's supposed to be super ultra secure on newer cars.
On the newest cars, it usually is pretty secure. Not always, but usually. On the older cars, it's usually been busted wide open. If someone broke into my A8 (why?) they could just plug a MPPS cable into the OBD-II port, maybe jump one connection in the box under the hood (a bit more hassle) and then simply reflash the immobilizer away. You can also plug a VCDS cable into the same port (or the other OBD-II port... it's got two, and they're both in the legally mandated area in my region) and pull a ROM dump f
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You can see in the video that the thief triggers the vehicle alarm, and then proceeds to work on it as the alarm is going off. That means that even old-school hot wiring would have worked. Once the thief has access to the car and plenty of time, there's nothing to prevent him from taking the car.
Once you have access to the vehicle and a tow truck, you can tow the vehicle away to a shop where you can spend however long is required to either reprogram the ECM, or part it out as required.
Key immobilizers just keep away casual thieves (people looking for a quick getaway car for a crime, or kids looking for a joyride). Forget hotwiring. Some (many?) older pre-immobilizer cars could be stolen with little more than a hammer and a screw driver. Break the lock cylinder, turn it with a screw driver, and away
A "miniscule" problem will not get resolved. (Score:2)
"We think it is minuscule in the overall car thefts but it does show these hackers will do anything to stay one step ahead."
And as long as you continue to identify this as a "minuscule" problem, it will earn a "minuscule" amount of attention to fix and secure.
By comparison, assault rifles account for a "minuscule" fraction of lives taken every year, and yet we have lawmakers staging sit-ins and demanding assault weapons bans in order to "make an impact". It's weird how we prioritize problems in society these days.
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By comparison, assault rifles account for a "minuscule" fraction of lives taken every year
That's the difference between property and the value of a human life. Even a "miniscule" number of lives being taken in violence is considered not acceptable. The number has to be gotten down to Zero, that's their goal, and that is what the public demands.
Until their demands are met, they are going to ask for more countermeasures and stricter and stricter laws in (possibly vain) effort to get that number down to
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By comparison, assault rifles account for a "minuscule" fraction of lives taken every year
That's the difference between property and the value of a human life. Even a "miniscule" number of lives being taken in violence is considered not acceptable. The number has to be gotten down to Zero, that's their goal, and that is what the public demands.
Until their demands are met, they are going to ask for more countermeasures and stricter and stricter laws in (possibly vain) effort to get that number down to zeor.
In the meantime, tobacco companies are legally allowed to sell a product that kills hundreds of thousands of humans every year.
Yeah, tell me again how "they" give a shit about saving lives...
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legally allowed to sell a product that kills hundreds of thousands of humans every year.
They'll generally blame lack of healthcare and limitations of medicine for those early deaths.
The reaction is not "Ban Tobacco"; But: Pass Obamacare, which prohibits insurance companies from raising your rates because you are a smoker (Beyond a specified level), to reduce Health insurance costs for smokers (And lay make all the 20-year-old non-smokers take equal responsibility for your extra healthcare costs from smoking).
There's no proof that tobacco resulted in deaths of thousands. Many of those are not untimely early demise. It's quite different with mass shooting deaths, where the dead often include young people. Nobody died of Tobacco. People died of health conditions which Tobacco might have had a role in. Also, this is viewed as 'free choice' by those who died; We have a culture that is currently in generally permissive of self-destructive behaviors, such as smoking, alcohol, and casual drug usage.
While I can understand your last statement here regarding our culture, the rest of your "no proof" rhetoric makes you sound like you work for a tobacco company. Give me a break. This isn't 1940 anymore. We have definitive proof backed by decades of studies to validate that cigarettes are bad for the human body and DO cause deaths that are directly related to tobacco use. There is nothing that could be deemed "good" for you from smoking, regardless of what tobacco lobbyists are claiming. We are smarter
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There are actually some potential advantages to smoking, although not very impressive ones Smoking can make an asthmatic feel better temporarily (I've got some family members that report this), and there's speculation that some schizophrenics can use cigarettes to self-medicate. Cigarettes are highly addictive and expensive ways to inflict potentially lethal damage on your body in various ways, dull some of your senses, and inflict foul-smelling toxins and carcinogens on others (let's not forget that the
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And are there beneficial reasons why firearms are in the hands of lunatics and terrorists?
Are there beneficial reasons that a scapel is in the hands of a surgeon with a god complex?
Are there beneficial reasons that an HR department may be run by a racist individual?
Point here is I don't disagree with stronger background checks to help mitigate risk, but you're sure as hell not going to be able to eliminate it all, which ironically seems to be the goal of lawmakers as we hear more talks of weapons bans and other countries putting pressure to take all arms from law-abiding civilians. It's not a c
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Nobody died of Tobacco. People died of health conditions which Tobacco might have had a role in.
Nobody died of cars. People died of health conditions which cars might have had a role in.
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Nobody died of cars. People died of health conditions which cars might have had a role in.
If you die of blood loss or being crushed into a pancake, then there is an irrefutable causal chain that a 2-year-old can follow.
If a 70-year-old-smoker dies of cancer..... there is nothing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that smoking killed that person.
Also, he/she was pretty close to the normal lifespan, so perhaps it is not that serious in the first place. Maybe just old age also.
Healthy people who
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If you die of blood loss or being crushed into a pancake, then there is an irrefutable causal chain that a 2-year-old can follow.
If a 70-year-old-smoker dies of cancer..... there is nothing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that smoking killed that person.
Don't get all "facty" on me, this is slashdot.
Re:A "miniscule" problem will not get resolved. (Score:4, Insightful)
In the USA, at least, "assault rifles" (selective fire weapons like the M4) aren't even a blip.
Now, if you're talking "assault weapons" (scary looking semi-automatic rifles), then it's true that they account for a "miniscule" fraction of lives taken every year. And it's also true that stupid lawmakers stage sit-ins, etc....
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Re:A "miniscule" problem will not get resolved. (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah yes, don't let facts get in the way of your empty argument composed entirely of hand-waving.
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If you want to look at facts, you shouldn't even have ANY firearms outside of a "well-regulated militia".
If you want to look at facts, you should try reading what the authors and supporters of the second amendment wrote on the subject. Hint: It's exactly the opposite of what you think it is.
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Did "well-regulated militia" have a different meaning 200 years ago?
Yes, yes it did. Today, well-regulated conjures up the idea of many rules and regulations. At the time, well-regulated meant in proper working order. Now, let us move on to the next stupid thing you've said:
Are you suggesting that you went back in time, read the minds of the authors, and determined that they wrote the exact opposite of what they thought?
No, I'm suggesting that you take advantage of modern technology, read the writings of the authors on the subject of the amendment which they wrote at the time, and find out what they thought about what they wrote. The idea of the second amendment was to avoid the need to have a standing military, on the
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> At the time, well-regulated meant in proper working order.
Their writings also indicate that they meant not only that the weapons are in good working order, but that The People knew how to use their firearms effectively and responsibly, and knew how to use their arms to kill tyrants and enemies. Our founding fathers were progressive liberals, not pussies like today's moonbats.
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The militia is anyone who owns a gun and is willing/able to fire it at an enemy. If they are in practice, they are well regulated.
So the people can keep arms because we need a militia and they can bear them so they can stay well regulated.
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Of course not, but each and everyone I described above is a member of the militia. That was the understanding and definition when the document was written, so that is the meaning that must be used to follow it properly today.
Wrong line of work (Score:2)
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If someone is that good at deciphering automotive electronic systems and codes they should be selling software to allow independent shops to do that, as well as rekey keys so people don't have to spend $400 at the dealer for a new key...
Actually, a number of people do create solutions for doing this sort of thing. I don't have access to that set of bookmarks right now, but I bookmarked some of the guys who sell immo code retrieval tools for VWs newer than mine, where it becomes complicated. Some of them work over and over again, and some of them require an internet connection and involve their servers... I wanted the information for a discussion just like this one, but that machine is down until my video card RMA is complete, or thereabout
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If someone is that good at deciphering automotive electronic systems and codes they should be selling software to allow independent shops to do that, as well as rekey keys so people don't have to spend $400 at the dealer for a new key...
Actually, a number of people do create solutions for doing this sort of thing. I don't have access to that set of bookmarks right now, but I bookmarked some of the guys who sell immo code retrieval tools for VWs newer than mine, where it becomes complicated. Some of them work over and over again, and some of them require an internet connection and involve their servers... I wanted the information for a discussion just like this one, but that machine is down until my video card RMA is complete, or thereabouts
You are correct. There are a number of companies that sell there own versions of the manufacturer's diagnostic tools as well, so there is definitely a market. Most of them start around 200$ and go up from there.
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You are correct. There are a number of companies that sell there own versions of the manufacturer's diagnostic tools as well, so there is definitely a market. Most of them start around 200$ and go up from there.
Yes, I have the Ross-Tech VAG-KKL cable for older OBD-II VW/Audi products with the dual K line. Without it, or a similar tool, there's no maintaining these vehicles.
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You're making the assumption that they didn't steal the software from a dealership or some such though.
True.
Dumb question RE: car hacking v. TPP (Score:3)
As I understand it, TPP makes it illegal for me to futz with the electronic ignition system.
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No the TPP will lockout 3rd party repairs / DIY oil changes (you can do it but the change oil light will stick on and some cars may enter limp home mode)
Dude where's my car? (Score:5, Insightful)
How long before a car can be remotely hacked and told to self-drive itself to the chop-shop? By someone in another country?
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That's Uber.
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I suggest passcode lock and physical security (Score:2)
When the owner sets up their vehicle.... have them define a passcode; much like you do for a phone. The vehicle should have sensors to detect unauthorized entry and unauthorized attempts to access diagnostic ports to plug-in a laptop.
If an unauthorized access attempt is detected when the vehicle is in secure mode, Or the user is ultra-paranoid and pushes a special "Lock" button before turning off their engine..... it should put all the vehicle computers in a "Passcode" lock status which can only be r
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30 years ago my dad's business had something like this in a few of the company vehicles. It was an electronic keypad where you had to enter a digit code to get the car to start.
These were older cars (early 80's vintage pickups and two Diesel VW Rabbits) so they didn't have extensive (or any?) computers to lock down subsystems, but nothing electrical would work in the car unless the code was entered.
I don't know how it was wired up, my guess is some kind of relay in front of the fusebox.
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Israeli vehicles are all equipped with a numeric keypad that enables the ignition and fuel systems. You have to enter in the code before starting the vehicle. Otherwise you can crank and crank and it won't ever run. Now I'm sure this is just as hackable as hot-wiring. But passcode systems for ignition do exist in parts of the world and are heavily used. I'm not really sure if they prevent vehicle theft or not, though.
As for a lock on the diagnostic port, that's a good idea, but a physical key to block acc
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Physical locks can be compromised, so we'll protect them with digital locks
No..... this is not really the reason cars are getting digital locks. Physical locks can be made more secure too. Take a look at the Abloy disk locks.
(1) They are nicer for the customers. They look fancy, appealing. They have an appearance of technical sophistication
(2) The digital locks often provide additional convenience features, for example, opening your door with your keys in your pocket. Automatic openi
Proof of Concept (Score:2)
NOT raising alarms (Score:2)
Police and car insurers say thieves are using laptop computers to hack into late-model cars' electronic ignitions to steal the vehicles, raising alarms
If they were raising alarms they wouldn't be getting away with it so much.
Stealing cars can be dangerous. (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah they're stealing all these Jeeps, but jokes on them when they think they're in park and get run over by the car they just stole.
Annie Oakley (Score:2)
I want to see you try to hack my '95 Escort Wagon.
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Youngster. I still drive my 1986 4Runner. And no, I don't want to sell it.
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Show-off.
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Pretty much this.
I wish my car couldn't be remotely unlocked. But at least you still need the physical key in the physical lock and physically turn it around to start the engine.
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I want to see you try to hack my '95 Escort Wagon.
Poser.
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Naw man, for real. I got the '95 in that Aqua blue/green color. Bought it from the family of a WWII vet who passed away. It's got 43k miles on it. The radio just crapped out though. Drove it from Chicago to Hartford, CT last August, and I'm planning on taking it to Houston in a few weeks.
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Sometimes it seems like that's the only color they come in! It's the same as mine, in any case - and the only other one I've seen around here is also that color.
Chrysler missed the mark, there (Score:2)
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Many manufacturers use the same frame which includes electronics support for pretty much all their car models. That way you only make one base model, just put a different chassis over it. Additionally, electronics are much cheaper and easier to repair that running wiring everywhere. I once replaced the wiring in a 1940's VW (you know, the original beetle) - there is a bundle of wires about 2 inches thick going through the chassis for that simple of a car (nothing electronic, just lights, ignition etc). Imag
At least its not an app (Score:2)
That's a lot of blunders coming together (Score:3)
At first, there was CAN bus. Those that know it know well that this bus know that "security" was not even an afterthought in its design. It came into existence when "board computers" were something that was carefully hidden from the car's user. Chips that controlled injection, traction, braking behaviour that needed no input from the driver. And of course security was a non-issue back then. Because, hey, anyone who could get access to those areas, hidden deeply within the car's heart and soul, could much easier fuck it up or steal it. Seriously, getting access to those early "board computer" parts meant you literally ripped the whole car apart just to gain a GLIMPSE at it.
Time went on and that "board computer" stuff got more and more pervasive. First with displays that were disconnected from the physical things they displayed, with speedometers that didn't just passively count revolutions on a wheel but a LCD that got the speed information from various sensors, same for the RPM gauge of your engine and various other tidbits, and it didn't take long until buttons on your steering wheel were added that let you control radio, air condition and mirrors.
Still not a security issue, because so far you could not affect the car from the outside. You still had to gain access to the inside of the car first before you could mess with it electronically.
Now, though, security IS an issue because the car accepts input from the outside. And that will become an even greater headache than we know now. The buses are in most implementations not separated between "mission critical" and "user leisure", or if, at a logical level only. Meaning that yes, that bus that takes your steering-wheel-button input and even handles your bluetooth is physically the same that deals with your ABS, your injection and your traction control.
I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that this MIGHT become an issue, given time. Especially considering that security that can't be tested in a crash test has not been any kind of issue with car manufacturers so far, not at all.
This story (Score:2)
Should be filed under the category "DUH!"
That Maintenance port ... (Score:4, Funny)
Fine we will lock them down and lock in dealer onl (Score:2)
Fine we will lock them down and lock in dealer only repairs and maintenance
In teh 90's you just needed a key (Score:2)
Three of my buddies had Dodge Lasers in the 90's. Two of them could open each others locks and start the car with their own keys. It also worked on other peopel Dodge Lasers. Dodge trucks and cars were easy to steal. Pup the night glow ring, punch the tumbler as a certain spot to pop it out and use the same screwdrive to turn the ignition on. Took about a minute.
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Huh? I mean, are you trying to claim that old, screwdriver fixable cars would not be vulnerable to this attack? I mean sure, they didn't even have an ECU to trick... on the other hand, that meant that just futzing with a few wires would start them.
I'd much rather someone needed complex software to steal my car than just being able to fiddle with some wires, and be done.
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I wish there were a balance somewhere between modern ECU and reliability of engines, versus repairability. It would be nice if there were an "open" engine design with the ECU firmware open sourced, but it would have to always keep up to EPA standards. However, engine design takes a long time, and there just wouldn't be that much of a market for something that would lag 5-10 years behind what every other vehicle maker would offer.
It would be nice, though. Having the ability to keep an engine going indefin
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There are DIY ECUs look at systems like Mega Squirt. As far as EPA goes the law says you have to leave emission control equipment in place, so they cat stays, vaper recover, and gas re-circulation stays but you can tune however you like.
Many places test emissions etc, technically yes you have to always comply with emissions requirements for the model year, practically you only have to do that if you live some where that has testing.
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Cats last much longer when stored in the garage between tests.
Re:Sometimes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I miss the old days when cars used to break down completely before they reached 80,000 miles, and when they poured out lead-contaminated exhaust and enough sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide to create acid rain, and when they got 8 miles per gallon, and when they would fly off the corners in improperly banked turns, and fly into a spin when braking on a wet road, and would impale drivers on steering wheel shafts in head-on collisions.
Ah, you must be talking about American cars.
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Re:Sometimes... (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't forget, older cars are also easier to fix after a crash because they don't have those stupid crumple zones that newer cars have. Instead of trying to minimize impact to the owner, who is obviously the most expendable part of an old car during a crash, older cars maximize their own well being, knowing that there will always be a new owner. Older cars have the strongest anti-hacker technology available and many are immune to the effects of an EMP.
However, don't forget that modern cars have some benefits also. Older cars rarely have appropriate surfaces to affix your iPad so all of your music, movies and games are right in front of you during your boring commute. While the obvious solution of attaching them to the windshield with velcro is simple, most older cars have non-vertical windshields making it harder to reach controls at the bottom of the screen.
Many high end newer cars are susceptible to hacking, in the near future making it possible to steal and deliver the car to a chop shop or international shipper all from the comfort of mom's basement. Compare that with the intrinsic security of the '74 Ford Pinto - entirely immune to theft, even if left in the worst part of town with the doors unlocked and keys in the ignition.
This tangent brought to you by the Coalition for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
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They're becoming increasingly rare, and therefore expensive, but you can still get all of those features in used cars. The lead additive for gas is very hard to find in first world countries, but there are still places you can get that to complete the primitive automobile experience.
Go to your local general aviation airport. So called "100 Low Lead" is still the primary fuel in GA. It contains more lead than normal auto fuel ever did.
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I've mentioned this before, but you can buy a diesel Mercedes from the 70s or 80s which has none of those problems. Granted, you're not getting traction control or ESP, but you can have ABS. If you combine that with sensible driving, they're really quite safe. And if the electrical system fails completely, the vehicle can still drive home without any problems other than that you can't operate the blower, windows, turn signals, lights and so on. They stopped putting wing windows on cars in the 80s, so in ver
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What? 80s cars were plumbers nightmares. Emissions controls added onto old designs. Computer controlled carbs (granting the Honda version was better than the quadrajunk). Bad early turbos with 50k mile lives. End of the 80s was better, but 80 - 84 in particular was a lowpoint.
Engines got simpler again with EFI and oxygen sensors. But the cars themselves got over complicated shortly after.
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There was a time when you could get a good car which was also a simple car. But it was pretty much between 1980 and 1990, and the cars were German or Japanese.
What? 80s cars were plumbers nightmares.
American cars, yes. Japanese cars? Only those with more than one turbocharger.
Emissions controls added onto old designs.
German cars from the 1980s barely have emissions controls. Japanese cars from the 1990s are fantastic in pretty much every way except their universally boring interiors.
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By the time the cars are out of warranty and free from the stealership most of the needed computer tricks (codes etc) have been figured out.
You often can't work on a one year old car, but why would you?
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My car's a 2015. It's very easy to work on (though all I've had to do so far is change the oil and rotate the tires). The factory service manual is available online if you know where to look.
Of course, it helps that it's Japanese. American and European carmakers seem to make their cars intentionally hard to work on.
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How would you know? You haven't done anything to it.
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I've done enough to see that regular maintenance is easy and doesn't require special tools.
Are you one of those wackos that things changing spark plugs requires special equipment or something?
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No I'm one of those wackos that knows a modern car's spark plugs are good for 50,000 miles. Same as the cables.
I also recognize that 'regular maintenance' has little to do with 'working on the car'. Install a big stick roller cam, intake and headers then get back to us. Hell, install a cold air intake, then get back to us. Do _something_.
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You're a fucking clueless moron if you think any modern car has spark plug cables.
I've rebuilt engines before, so go fuck yourself.
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Technically, yes, since you don't need a driver anymore to get the car full of C4 to the target area, so it's not a SUICIDE bombing anymore...
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Why even bother with a bomb, if you can take remote control of thousands of already occupied vehicles anyway?
I wish this was just some sort of distasteful joke, but unfortunately the combination of increasing reliance on computers and horrific lack of awareness of (and/or caring about) security by auto manufacturers is starting to make that kind of attack look like a credible threat.
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Combine this with always-on (Tesla?) self-driving cars, and I could just summon one to my mom's basement!
The stairs might be a tad problematic.
On related news, this'd help reduce the number of victims in suicide bombings (by one, each time).
I expect it's cheaper and easier for Daesh to find gullible young Muslim men tormented by their homosexuality or addiction to porn than it'd cost to buy a fleet of self-driving Teslas.
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I would be hard for them to find any that _aren't_. It's baked into muslim culture. Only the bottoms are gay, the tops are just normal muslims.
Maybe 10% of muslims are purely straight, about the same % that are gay in western culture. The ones where nature outweighs nurture...
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I expect it's cheaper and easier for Daesh to find gullible young Muslim men tormented by their homosexuality or addiction to porn than it'd cost to buy a fleet of self-driving Teslas.
Even if somebody gave them the self-driving cars, they would probably still include some suicide bombers for social reasons, and just in case the targets figure out some trick to reset it them to manual mode.
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Right now, AP is actually semi-autonomous, and you have to have a certain speed to turn it on. In addition, you have to have hands on the wheel. So no, not a problem, AT THIS TIME.
BUT, the goal is level 4 autonomy. That means that get in (or put in a weight), and then order it to where you want to go, which could be as little as 1-2 miles away and it goes.
BUT, what stops them from loading explosives in the back (or even in that front s
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Other bombers would see it as a serious disadvantage. If your aim is to be SEEN to be performing a mass killing, than this would not be desirable.
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That means if you try to steal the car, you will need to tear out the ECU and replace it with a completely brand new factory fresh one, or a used one that comes with the original keys. Rather more complicated and quite expensive.
This implies that losing your existing keys would also be complicated and quite expensive to recover from as well. If that's the case, I would actively avoid such a system. I've never had my car stolen, but I've had to replace keys a few times in my life.
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In fact it is a complicated and expensive thing if you lose all your keys to the car.
That's a serious problem. Those keys with embedded transponders already make it difficult and expensive to even make a copy of your key for storage. It seems crazy to make that situation even worse.
I like to think of it as a good value in that if it costs me that much, it costs the criminals that much as well.
Fair enough. Obviously, I take the opposite point of view. It dramatically reduces the value of the vehicle to me, and is a strong reason to avoid purchasing such vehicles.
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Some newer cars (and even some older cars dating back to 2003) require that the ECU and ICM be replaced if you lose all keys for the vehicle - so you're looking at $150 per key, plus about $1900 to $1500 worth of computers to replace plus the labor to tear down the dashboard when those modules are installed behind the dash rather than under the hood.
Now, I appreciate a LOT of advancements in auto technology. Performance and economy have both improved (hell, some sedans can spank the hell out of my mildly-tu
Re:Ford cars (Score:4, Interesting)
Replacement of heater/AC blower requires removal of about 1/4 of the dashboard, and the ECU, BCM/BCU, and other modules sometimes require total removal of the dashboard and center console. Wtf?
These things don't happen that often and they don't care about owners after the first one very much, and owners after the second one not at all. I've never seen a vehicle where you had to remove the bumper cover to replace a lamp.
I've got an A8 which is a rolling PITA, but it's interesting what is and what isn't easy to work on. The blower motor is trivial to replace as it's done from beneath the hood. I believe the heater cores require dash removal... it's either that or engine removal, I'd have to look it up. You can officially get at almost all of the climate control servos without dash removal, and unofficially get at all of them. But the heater core control valve is in a horrible location and you're supposed to remove the brake servo. If you are crafty, you don't have to do that, but the alternative is not fun either. All of the major hidden modules are trivial to access; the ABS is behind the driver's kick panel, and the PCM, TCM, and CCM are in an "e-Box" under the hood. The stereo comes out easily with fairly typical removal tools, but in order to get out the climate control module which lives right next to it out, you need to take out the floor mats and center console trim panels from both sides, remove the center vent, remove the stereo, and pull the whole center stack out of the dash including all of the big switches.
Anyway, everything continues in this vein... the intake manifold is trivial to remove but the oil cooler is a nightmare. I think the truth is that you're just running into basic limitations of what people expect and what it is reasonable to produce and assemble in the factory. There's only so much space in the car to make convenient maintenance access. On the other hand, some of it really is just bad design. I can get right at the blower motor in my F250, in my 300SD, and in my A8...
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On newer VWs the first thing you have to do to service anything near the firewall, is move the accessory tray to the 'service position'. To do that you have to remove the front bumper cover, then pull the tray forward.
VW/Porsche/Audi seems to have settled on VW performance, Audi parts availability and Porsche cost. Reminiscent of European heaven/hell jokes.
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On newer VWs the first thing you have to do to service anything near the firewall, is move the accessory tray to the 'service position'. To do that you have to remove the front bumper cover, then pull the tray forward.
On my D2 A8 there is a similar thing called putting it in the service position. Because it has an unboltable core support and sliders for the bumper cover, when you do anything to the front of the engine it's by far easiest to remove everything (all the lines which aren't radiator hoses are on one side) so that you can work right on it, especially if you're doing a major job like the timing belt. It's technically possible to do without doing this, but it's frankly trivial and so it's the way it's done.
VW/Porsche/Audi seems to have settled on VW performance, Audi parts availability and Porsche cost. Reminiscent of European heaven/hell jokes.
At le
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Go fuck yourself. Making it possible for the owner of the vehicle to maintain and/or modify it himself is never a mistake, and indeed should be made mandatory!
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What public/private key security? If you think car manufacturers bothered to implement asynchronous security, you're deluding yourself. Replay attacks work on virtually any kind of car.
Seriously, what they tout as the "new kind of electronic lock" is the electronic equivalent of the lock on your sister's diary.
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> If I park it in an area that does not seem safe I attach a club to the steering wheel. This is old school but no one is going to hack it with a laptop.
http://www.makitatools.com/en-... [makitatools.com]
Even the hardest steels might take a minute to get through. A hacksaw will also eat through it, although more slowly.
From what I've read, the hardened steel used in The Club takes a max of 15 seconds for a cordless angle grinder to take out.
No laptop required.
Then, your "old school" Dodge Ram likely requires simple manip
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So I drive a 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel Truck with 450,000+ km that runs reliably and gets good mileage without a computer.
So your Cummins requires 1 wire for run and 1 wire for start... It's not rocket surgery.
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If someone wants your car they get a key, a lock cylinder and an ECU from a junkyard and bring it all with them.
Of course the '2004' part makes your car immune from professional car thieves.
Real professional car thieves just use flatbed tow trucks anyhow. Nothing can stop that.