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Power Technology

Gaming Computers Offer Huge, Untapped Energy Savings Potential 207

Required Snark writes: According to Phys.org, a study by Evan Mills at Berkeley Lab shows that "gamers can achieve energy savings of more than 75 percent by changing some settings and swapping out some components, while also improving reliability and performance" because "your average gaming computer is like three refrigerators." Gaming computers represent only 2.5 percent of the global installed personal computer (PC) base but account for 20 percent of the energy use. Mills estimated that gaming computers consumed 75 TWh of electricity globally in 2012, or $10 billion, and projects that will double by 2020 given current sales rates and without efficiency improvements. Potential estimated savings of $18 billion per year globally by 2020, or 120 terawatt hours (TWh) are possible. Mills started the site GreeningtheBeast.org. You can read the full paper as a PDF.
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Gaming Computers Offer Huge, Untapped Energy Savings Potential

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  • And? (Score:5, Funny)

    by 4pins ( 858270 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:28AM (#50435845) Homepage

    So I should swap out my video card to save a little power, drop a few frames and die a virtual death? I think they have their priorities backwards.

    • Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Archangel Michael ( 180766 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:41AM (#50435991) Journal

      So, what you're saying is that dropping from 1000 frames per second, to 950 FPS is all it takes to die?

      My dad had a saying, I think it applies here: "A poor workman blames his tools"

      • Re:And? (Score:5, Funny)

        by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:53AM (#50436117)

        So, what you're saying is that dropping from 1000 frames per second, to 950 FPS is all it takes to die?

        My dad had a saying, I think it applies here: "A poor workman blames his tools"

        To channel a story from yesterday... IF the tool is Python, the blame is well placed... ;)

      • That can mean a poor workman finds excuses. But it also means a good workman has quality tools and takes good care of them.

      • So, what you're saying is that dropping from 1000 frames per second, to 950 FPS is all it takes to die?

        My dad had a saying, I think it applies here: "A poor workman blames his tools"

        And a good workman doesn't use a screw driver to hammer nails.

      • Re:And? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:21PM (#50438323)

        My dad had a saying, I think it applies here: "A poor workman blames his tools"

        Ehh...yes and no. A workman generally isn't competing against others, which is why he has no excuse. Not so with gamers.

        If two craftsman are up against each other in a woodworking competition, their tools absolutely matter. Give one a dull blade to work with instead of the sharp one the other guy has, and he'd have every reason to complain about his tools and how they're affecting his ability to produce results. After all, the fact that he is fully capable of producing absolutely amazing results using just that dull blade doesn't matter one bit in a competition setting, since what matters in a competition is his ability to produce better results than the person he is competing against.

        So it is with much of gaming.

        A "craftsman" of the gaming world may be more than capable of producing amazing results on an everyday basis by wiping the floor with their opponents, regardless of their tools, but put them up against someone of similarly-masterful skill and their tools can absolutely make a load of difference.

        That said, I actually agree with your sentiment, since computers, latency, and other factors get overused as excuses when the bigger issue is merely the player's competency. I recall back when I played vanilla World of Warcraft, I was getting 0.5 frames per second (i.e. 1 frame every two seconds; that is not a typo) at minimum settings in some of the raids, simply because I was at the time running the game on a laptop that was well under the minimum specs (the bug tunnel in AQ40 [wikia.com] was particularly bad for me). Yet, despite that, I'd consistently come in with the least "overheal" and the second highest healing among the members of the 40-man raid (i.e. I healed the second most and did so with better efficiency than anyone else). When the raid leaders got wind of how poor my computer was, they started calling the other healers to task over their performances, since if I was able to produce those sorts of results with such a crappy setup, the others had no excuse.

        All of which is to say, bad gamers do indeed blame their tools inappropriately in the vast majority of cases, but gamers also have better and more valid reasons for blaming their tools than a typical craftsman.

      • by epyT-R ( 613989 )

        No, actually it's more about keeping a high enough minimum framerate so that the game doesn't hitch, while having as much eye candy as possible. Benchmarks are done with vsync turned off to see comparative results of how much headroom is available, which is why you see comparisons done at high framerates. It is also done to reduce lagtime between screen and input updates, depending how the game in question renders. There are also those of us who aren't blind and can see a noticeable difference between 16 an

    • So I should swap out my video card to save a little power, drop a few frames and die a virtual death? I think they have their priorities backwards.

      Agreed. Talking to gamers about their systems being inefficient when it comes to power is akin to talking to the guy driving a supercharged Challenger about gas mileage. There are factors that consumers do not give a shit about. Power consumption with gaming rigs would be one of them.

      You want people to run more efficient devices? Make the cost of electricity higher. Otherwise, good luck getting people to change. Performance will likely win no matter what, as it does when shopping for gas-guzzling musc

    • Re:And? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @10:20AM (#50436365)

      From the article (I know, I know, but I was curious):

      "The huge bottom line here is that gamers don't have to sacrifice performance to save energy," Mills said. "You can have your cake and eat it too. In fact, the efficient systems run cooler and quieter, both of which are desirable attributes among gamers."

      ...and...

      They were able to achieve a 50 percent reduction in energy use while performance remained essentially unchanged. Additional energy savings were achieved through operational settings to certain components, yielding total savings of more than 75 percent.

      Which is to say, quite right, it sounds like they are talking about diminishing performance a bit, but if they've figured out some decent ways to cut the amount of energy the system is using, it would sound to me like they may have created some additional headroom for overclockers dealing with overheating. After all, a cooler system may indicate you're leaving untapped potential on the table.

      Having looked through their site, it appears that all they've really done is calculate the cost per watt for the performance offered by various components, and have made some swaps to get similarly- or better-performing components that operate at lower wattages, but their research is far from comprehensive. For instance, they posted a market survey [google.com] that covers the efficiency of 9 PSUs, but PSUs are already rated based on their efficiency (e.g. Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze), and there are significantly more comprehensive lists [newegg.com] out there that address the topic of how well the PSUs live up to their claimed standard (and that are also updated regularly as new PSUs hit the market). Likewise, you can find similar work done for other components.

      If their site had done a better job of pulling those various resources together so as to provide a better bang-for-your-buck on your utility bill list and was comprehensive enough that I didn't feel like they were leaving out the vast majority of the products aimed at gamers, I'd have been much more favorably-inclined towards them, but this kinda seems like a weekend project done by a father and son team who have environmental aspirations. Merit worthy, certainly, but not worth much consideration from gamers (yet?).

    • Re:And? (Score:5, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @10:35AM (#50436533) Homepage Journal

      Actually that is the one area where TFA might actually have a point. Due to new technologies from AMD and Nvidia that sync the monitor refresh timing to the GPU instead of the other way around, a slightly less powerful GPU can provide essentially the same performance as a more powerful one did under the old system.

      Basically if your monitor has a fixed 60Hz refresh rate then the GPU must be able to supply every frame in under 16.6ms. Any drops will be immediately noticeable. With flexible frame rate the GPU can go down to say 55Hz for a few frames, or even down to 50Hz and the player won't notice. Motion will still look fluid.

      Okay, some gamers want 120Hz now, but the principal still applies.

    • No, just play tetris.
  • Fuck Off (Score:4, Funny)

    by Tokolosh ( 1256448 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:32AM (#50435897)

    Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

    H. L. Mencken

    • If only i had mod points today! In a positive way of course.
    • Re:Fuck Off (Score:4, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @10:44AM (#50436621) Homepage Journal

      What a strange attitude. If you could save money on electricity by simply buying more efficient components for the same price as inefficient ones, and by enabling some power saving options on your PC for free and all with no loss of performance, wouldn't it make sense to do so?

      It's like pointing out that there is no point accelerating and braking hard in heavy traffic. You won't get there any quicker, you just waste money that you could spend on other stuff.

      This instant angry reaction to anything involving energy saving is bizarre and makes no rational sense.

      • What you say is so obvious to any rational person, that to be lectured on the subject is annoying.

        And what is the sense in buying $500 of components to save $100 in electricity? My numbers may be wrong, but simplistic imperatives are stupid.

        • Because $100 of electricity is worth more than $100. If you render everything as a dollar value then nothing will have real value anymore. How much are the kids worth, how much to charge for an evening watching the sunset, how much to charge to improve the environment?

      • His numbers are way off. First a gaming computer is not "three refrigerators." A fridge/freezer combo uses like 400-800 watts when spun up depending on size and if it is frostless or not. Your typical reasonably high end gaming computer (high end quad core processor, single high end GPU) uses in the 300-400 watt range when fully spun up. There are, of course, higher end systems but they are not common as they cost a lot, for not a ton of gain.

        Well the idea that there are tons of components or settings that'

        • http://michaelbluejay.com/elec... [michaelbluejay.com]

          "In most homes the refrigerator is the second-largest user of electricity (13.7%), right after the air conditioner (14.1%)" mostly because they are old and inefficient.

          Modern energy efficient refrigerators use ~425 to 600kWh / year.

          You say a gaming rig draws ~350W "when fully spun up", I say my 2nd gen PS3 draws over 200W when sitting at the menu bar "doing nothing." The article is talking about gamers that never let their systems go to sleep, so let's settle on 300W draw w

          • 1) A PS3 is not a gaming PC, which is what we are talking about.

            2) PCs go in to idle states BY DEFAULT, you have to work to turn them off. My PC, an exceptionally high powered one, idles at about 90 watts. A more normal PC idles at 50 or so. Not turning off, not suspending, not doing anything special. The processors normal C-states and throttling which are enabled by default.

            3) You can turn your PC off. I do.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Oh yeah, I don't disagree. The guy is severely lacking a clue. I was only commenting on the reaction.

      • Think about V twin motorcycle engines and all that they represent in our culture...

        Not everybody wants to fit in, be efficient, save money, or listen to what anybody else thinks.

  • How many beers can I fit inside the case?

    • Depends on if you leave the beer in the cans or not...
    • One, maybe two, if you leave it in the container.

      You can likely fit over a hundred beers in there if you take it out of the containers first, though that may require judicial use of caulking first.
      =Smidge=

    • It depends, are you using the beer for the cooling fluid in your liquid cooling system?

  • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:38AM (#50435949)
    Wouldn't it be easier to TURN OFF the gaming computer when you're not using it?
    • Sometimes my gaming PC turns itself off WHILE I'm using it...damn PSU.
    • This is exactly what I do. I only have the computer on when I am using it.

      The paper is vague on this point, but it seems to imply that the computer is running all the time.

    • by eth1 ( 94901 )

      Wouldn't it be easier to TURN OFF the gaming computer when you're not using it?

      Turning my PC off at night would save me *maybe* $40-$50 per year over running it 24/7. The cost of higher component failure rates due to thermal cycling (vs. heating up and staying that way) would probably end up costing me more than that (I try to keep a PC for 4-5 years).

      One tip for efficiency that I think a lot of people miss is properly sizing the power supply. They run most efficiently when you're around 50% or so of max load, and terrible efficiency under 20% load. People with the "bigger is better"

      • I turn off my gaming PC and it's still running fine after seven years. My FreeNAS file server stays on 24/7 and I just replaced five five-year-old hard drives because one failed outright, another had bad sectors, and the rest were tripping the SMART sensor for overheating. The newer Western Digital Red NAS hard drives run cooler and are more energy efficient than the old Seagate hard drives.
      • by cfalcon ( 779563 )

        But not if their PC ramps up to wanting 600W during gaming, right?

      • I would say the peak is at about 60% - or amusingly, close to one divided by the golden number.

    • by oic0 ( 1864384 )
      Dont even need to. ALL of the components have power scaming features. That 600 watt gaming pc uses less power than its monitor when youre browsing the web (50-75 watts). People seem to not understand that the power ratings are maximums, not constant.
    • My computer is being used even when I'm not using it myself. I have an FTP server, a small webserver, a database, a TeamSpeak server and a PLEX Media Server on it. While idling (aka "not gaming on it") it consumes around 200W of power. I balanced that consumption by replacing all my light bulbs with low-consumption ones, and I actually pay less than when I had incandescent light bulbs and no gaming PC.
      While gaming, my PC consumes 400-450W and that happens 2-3 hours a day, some days it consumes less while ga

      • 200w at idle? What the hell are you running? You really should think about offloading those services to a micro-server.
        • I'm measuring my PC and everything else on my desk, e.g. external HDDs, battery charger, docked phone, charging tablet, headphones, desk lamp, two monitors, the GPON and so on.

      • FYI, I have a TS3 server as well, but I run mine in EWS. It costs me about $6 a month to run. You might want to consider it.

    • Tell that to my kids - I turn off the (abandoned, lost interest hours ago) PS3 about 4 times a week.

  • by MasseKid ( 1294554 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:42AM (#50435999)
    If you read or even browse the paper, all he really says is if you use newer components, they are more energy efficient. Which is like well, pretty much everything else on the damn planet.
    • by 0123456 ( 636235 )

      So I should scrap my old card every couple of years and replace it, even though the card costs more than any power saving I could possibly gain.

      Totally makes sense in Greenie World, I guess. Just not in this one.

    • by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @10:08AM (#50436239)

      If you read or even browse the paper, all he really says is if you use newer components, they are more energy efficient. Which is like well, pretty much everything else on the damn planet.

      I wonder... Do they take into account the resources necessary to BUILD these new components and scrap the old ones?

      I read once that it's more environmentally friendly to keep using an old building, car, etc over having to scrap the old one and build a new one...

      • Look at the prices (Score:4, Insightful)

        by dlenmn ( 145080 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @11:39AM (#50437229)

        Although it's not perfect, money is a decent proxy for environmental harm.* So, if a $100 upgrade will save you $200 in electricity over its lifetime, then the upgrade will probably do more environmental good than harm. However, if a $500 upgrade will save you $100 in electricity, then you're probably doing more harm than good.

        * At least for normal consumer goods, the price _roughly_ reflects the amount of energy and resources to manufacture the good, which roughly reflects the environmental harm. It's by no means a perfect metric, but it's a start. Some goods clearly do not fit this model. For example, a painting costs almost no resources to produce but can sell for a high price. Some computer parts are similar. For example, sometimes identical graphics cards are deliberately crippled (lower clock speed, parts of the processor disabled, etc.) just to create different price points. Both cards have the same environmental cost to produce but can have very different sale prices. However, that means the environmental cost is best represented by the cost of the _cheapest_ version. So maybe the aforementioned $500 upgrade really costs $50 to produce and thus has a positive environmental impact.

        (Totally off topic: I wonder about the environmental impact of moving to cities. Say you move to a city, sell your car, etc. but your income remains constant; you instead spend money on a new TV, more beef for dinner, etc. Then it's not obvious to me that you're having a significant, positive environmental impact.)

  • by mikethe1337 ( 4097077 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:42AM (#50436003)
    Power saving settings on computers are super annoying. I work for a company whose software is ran in the cloud and the dang power saving settings on network cards make our program freeze in about 2 minutes of inactivity to save power annoying as heck to walk non-technical people through changing their windows power settings.
    • by lesincompetent ( 2836253 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:46AM (#50436043)
      Mod parent up. There's a time and a place for energy saving and sometimes it's NEVER.
      • Mod parent up. There's a time and a place for energy saving and sometimes it's NEVER.

        Well, energy savings as implemented currently anyway.

        I would argue that there is always a place for energy savings. It just may not be something an end user can implement but it could be designed into the system.

        Power save settings can be annoying on some computers, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to design an energy efficient computer that functions well.

      • I curse Energy Star all the time. Monitors should not turn off after 3 seconds of no signal. I fight with EVERY linux install because X.org thinks terminals should always blank. Its maddening.
  • that a Fender Twin Reverb might be rather inefficient, too?

    • But the Twin has always been an amp that real men used to keep warm in winter. It's dual use means that it's really the world's best sounding space heater. I think the reverb coils are used as auxiliary heating elements.

    • that a Fender Twin Reverb might be rather inefficient, too?

      I upgraded to the more efficient Mesa Mark V 25.
      With all the energy I'm saving, I should be rich.

  • I used the newer video cards power improvements as one of the reasons to replace an older card*. The other reason for the upgrade was so I could play more of the new games coming out on Linux. I didn't factor in that I would spend more time gaming though...

    *Replaced a Radeon HD 3870 for an Geforce 750 Ti.

  • bitcoin miners (Score:4, Insightful)

    by crtreece ( 59298 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @09:54AM (#50436119) Homepage
    Hopefully this guy doesn't find out how much power is being used for bitcoin mining.
    • by cfalcon ( 779563 )

      That's less interesting to him, I'm sure- Bitcoin miners already care deeply about efficiency, because it hits their bottom line.

  • by RogueyWon ( 735973 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @10:09AM (#50436257) Journal

    How is it possible to take 20 pages to say so little that is actually meaningful? It basically boils down to "newer and/or lower performance components draw less power". No shit, Sherlock.

    It's also rather misinformed when it comes to the availability of power-consumption information for gaming PC components. My current PC is a self-built gaming PC and I can assure you that when I was putting it together, power consumption information was absolutely something I looked at, because it affected my choice of PSU. And if you go to the manufacturers' websites, power consumption information is usually available upfront. If it's not, or if you want to know how it varies depending on loads, then there are any number of testing, benchmarking and review sites just a google search away.

    There is probably an interesting article that could be written about minimising power consumption in a gaming PC, but it's not this one. In reality, power consumption is one aspect of a sensitive series of trade-offs. On graphics cards, for instance, you get get the same brute-force performance from AMD cards as you can from Nvidia cards at (usually) a much lower price - but the trade-off comes in heat and power consumption. So you can base your decision on a balance between how much you care about the up-front purchase costs of the card, vs ongoing power costs, potentially the cost of a new PSU and the noise/discomfort factor of having something that burns with the heat of a billion fiery suns in your PC. Most people building gaming PCs are not blind to this stuff.

    The article reads like a lightweight piece of political advocacy for more regulation, trying to solve a problem which increasingly doesn't exist (the general trend over time is towards more power-efficient components and electricity prices act as a further restraint). So the author can, to be blunt, fuck right off.

    • by LWATCDR ( 28044 )

      It also overlooks the fact that high end CPUs and GPUs all have power scaling. Your i7 and three overclocked GTX980s are not pulling anything like max power when you are posting on slashdot or watching netflix.

    • Guy doesn't know anything about what he's talking about.

      For one there is the newer thing as you note. Yes, newer stuff is more efficient. At a given performance target (FPS for a given scene complexity, number of MFlops, whatever) newer hardware is better than older stuff. Ok, fine but cost of always upgrading aside (something gamers do more than most people) there is the issue of energy of production. A large amount of human energy use goes in to making the stuff we use. If you want to save energy, a big p

  • How about we charge people according to the electricity they use?

    That way, people can weigh what's important to them. If I want to work an extra little bit each day so I can make more money to spend on things like electricity for my gaming computer, I can.

    I have this friend, Adam Smith, who I believe has explained it all pretty thoroughly. It's not a perfect system, by any means, but it's better than most, and pretty practical.

  • your average gaming computer is like three refrigerators.

    I did not know that, that is awesome! I got some serious grocery shopping to do...

  • Everyone quick, "upgrade" your gaming rig to a quad-core intel Atom with built-in GPU!
  • Racing drivers can achieve energy savings of more than 75% by swapping out some components and driving more slowly around the track. This will improve reliability and efficiency!

  • Where I live, three months of the year we need our central air conditioning. The remainder of the year we either need a small amount of heating, or a LOT of heating. Having my gaming machine add to the heat of the house is just a bonus. My TV providing 700W of heat? Bonus! Of course, the cost of electrical heat is higher than natural gas heat, but that heat pushed out from the computer reduces the total heat I need from natural gas. A bit of lost efficiency ($/but) yes, but you cannot consider it wast
  • Sounds good, where do I pick up my Green Gaming subsidy for the new hardware?
  • Puns aside about consoles insomnia. Wasting $100s of dollars of you power bill [cmu.edu] every year is not a serious concern for the video game industry. In 2008 the NRDC [nrdc.org], the US EPA with their EnergyStar [energystar.gov]Walmart beat the console [escapistmagazine.com] industry [escapistmagazine.com] about the head and neck and the video game industry managed to sandbag any regulation [destructoid.com] that even a GE or Sylvania could not for lighting. The reason is simple sloth and incompetence. Simply put the problem is not energy used during game play , but the lack of a meaningful sleep
  • Power consumption is really only a problem when my gaming computer is awake and that's not that often. The power consumption when sleeping is minimal and not worth worrying about. Even if I were to run my gaming PC 24x7 and never have it sleep, it only costs about $5 / month and I don't really care about that. If we were talking about a major household appliance then sure, I care about its power consumption but not when it comes to my gaming computer.
  • by allquixotic ( 1659805 ) on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:49PM (#50438543)

    It's the classical "iron triangle" (aka constraint triangle): you have three sides to a triangle; performance, power consumption, and cost. Pick any two that you want to be favorable, and the more favorable you make them, the more unfavorable the third will be.

    Nvidia and AMD discrete cards for desktops are designed to tug on the performance and cost sides as much as possible, leaving only a passing thought for power savings. Granted, it's reasonably efficient when in standby and not that bad at idle, but it's horrendous under load.

    If you want a GPU that's less horrendous under load, without compromising on performance, expect to pay a LOT more for it. And in most cases, because of market forces, you're also going to take at least a slight performance hit.

    For instance, the GTX 980M is way more power efficient than the GTX 980 desktop card, because of the design constraints of laptops. It's effectively power efficient by design because of the form factor. But the performance is notably worse, and buying a laptop that has one is way more expensive than buying a desktop with "good enough" components (some kind of recent i7 and 8GB or more memory) and a GTX 980 or even 980 Ti.

    We're not going to see chips that maintain the desired performance level (the one constraint that most people are unwilling to compromise on if they're owning a "real" gaming PC) while saving on energy, unless the cost goes so high that only the most elite can afford it.

    We see similar problems in the car market, too. The Prius and Prius C are relatively inexpensive (the C is very inexpensive), great fuel efficiency - though not as good as an EV or PHEV - but the performance is terrible. The Tesla Model S achieves amazing performance, range, and efficiency in a pure EV package, but no "commoner" can afford it, only the upper crust. Then there are loads and loads of cars that are not particularly efficient, very cheap, and have serviceable performance.

    Who's paying for the more expensive chips that give us the same performance we're already getting but with less energy consumption? The gamer? Why would they do that?

    P.S. - Before you accuse me of not thinking of "the greater good", I *drive* a Prius C. I bet the same scientists who wrote this paper drive conventional SUVs.

  • Although this isn't high-end gaming, I noticed a couple of interesting power measurements at work:

    My 10-year old Dell desktop, running Windows XP and no anti-virus (AV) boots ~25% faster and draws ~30% less power overall (idle & taxed with performance software) than the new guy's new Dell laptop that runs Windows 7 & Norton AV. We can both run all the same software effectively (albeit all my versions are several years older), except that I have a different brand of PCB design software than he; I'

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